Why did you waste my time with this article? I think I could have had a cig in the time i read it and would have spent my time better. No offense Syndication.
Well u did not Have to Read it All if u found it so boring
BUT......at least it stopped u having a cig - a little reprieve for ur Poor Lungs!
I am an Abstract sort of Creature Who Dislikes any sort of Restraint If you try to pigeonhole me I Will Break Free!
Is this Syndicate the same guild that have the YouTube videos? If so, they r hilarious on those.
But reading the Thread, I think it is actually a good thing that gaming companies listen to them - and it is no use getting all Sarcy because u prob think ur guild is better, Sour grapes will not get u anywhere! IF u think they r or there r better guilds out there - then What is Stopping them talking to the Gaming companies as well? They have to put themselves out there to get their ideas across, I am sure it was not the gaming companies that contacted the Syndicate but visa versa! So stop being so negative!
I am sure the companies would listen to any Guild that make that Effort.
I am an Abstract sort of Creature Who Dislikes any sort of Restraint If you try to pigeonhole me I Will Break Free!
EDIT: Had a further look into this and there working with Prima Games, I guess that makes more sense now but I still stand by what I said.
Yep. Prima and the Syndicate worked together on the LotRO guidebooks. The first one was ok, but the second one (whose main selling point was that it was compiled by the Syndicate) was an absolute ripoff. I remember that the Syndicate's top guy was defending it left and right until it came out, and people saw that all they had done was copy the quest text from the journal entries.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
What has The Syndicate achieved recently? There are other guilds just as big. It's not hard to have a big guild when you tirelessly recruit.
According to WoWProgress, they didn't even get HLK 10
From what I remember, their last 'achievement" was getting Guiness to recognize them.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Seriously? A news update about an uber guild? Wow... Well, I guess it's time for me to move on to a different section of this website. I mean, I hoped that the news section would have, oh I don't know, actual news. Instead we get some nonsense from some guild leader who understands what I, as an MMO player, go through or some junk.
Who the hell is he to speak for me, or this community anyway? Just because he has some huge guild, he's automatically a spokesperson for the rest of us?
Get the f... Seriously?! I mean for realz?!?!?!~~!!!```21
An article about guilds, thats fine, but just about one? Maybe an article about one guild in a game, their experiances and so on. But this was vague by default, telling us little about anything.
Pretty terrible article, and its not just what its about (A single solitary guild out of millions?) Its the fact that it could have been written in one sentence:
A guild of players makes guides and talks to devs.
It wont get deleted or removed, Someone took the time and effort at MMORPG.com yet AGAIN (Even though the last one got ripped apart because this clan/guild is nothing more then a big clan who has some money). It is not a good article to read, The guild is not a good guild. All in all If I could rate this or hype it. There would be a nice No-Hype all over it...
Gaming community: IRONFIST New World: Lilith - US East WoW Guild: IRONFIST <Burning Legion> Alliance(We transferred to Illidan) WoW Guild: IRONFIST <Illidan> Horde SWOTR: IRONFIST <Satele Shan> Empire/Republic
Uhm, this is an article on the front page? There are forty billion guilds in the world, all of them equally uninteresting to anyone but their members. Surely this should be posted on the forums instead of the front page?
Whew !! You miss the point. The Syndicate TRUELY care about its members and is very involved in the gaming world. Thats why they are where they are and have lasted so long.
FYI, they are also involved in community work as a guild and have yearly gatherings. Very very few guilds do that and none have been so successful.
I think a controversial gaming community like the Goons would be much more interesting to read about. An interview on how they manage to reinvent themselves in order to massively troll game communities again and again, for instance. (Muslim Jihad warriors in EVE and All-American, christian patriots + matching arrogance in RIFT, lol).
This article and subject matter are a bit lacklustre to say the least.
Uhm, this is an article on the front page? There are forty billion guilds in the world, all of them equally uninteresting to anyone but their members. Surely this should be posted on the forums instead of the front page?
Whew !! You miss the point. The Syndicate TRUELY care about its members and is very involved in the gaming world. Thats why they are where they are and have lasted so long.
FYI, they are also involved in community work as a guild and have yearly gatherings. Very very few guilds do that and none have been so successful.
They aren't the first guild to have yearly gatherings or be active in the community and done so successfuly I might add. Guilds have been doing this long before The Syndicate was even a thought, since the early guilds of NWN on AOL which predate UO and The Syndicate. People are angry because of the obvious favortism, showboating, and ego tripping. A little humility, honesty, and integrity goes a long way. I've met few people that actually like The Syndicate. The Syndicate is more of a business and less of a guild. The real guilds don't spend their time showboating because they are too busy playing games.
Banegrivm Leader of the 1st Fist of Light www.1stfistoflight.com
Uhm, this is an article on the front page? There are forty billion guilds in the world, all of them equally uninteresting to anyone but their members. Surely this should be posted on the forums instead of the front page?
Whew !! You miss the point. The Syndicate TRUELY care about its members and is very involved in the gaming world. Thats why they are where they are and have lasted so long.
FYI, they are also involved in community work as a guild and have yearly gatherings. Very very few guilds do that and none have been so successful.
They aren't the first guild to have yearly gatherings or be active in the community and done so successfuly I might add. Guilds have been doing this long before The Syndicate was even a thought, since the early guilds of NWN on AOL which predate UO and The Syndicate. People are angry because of the obvious favortism, showboating, and ego tripping. A little humility, honesty, and integrity goes a long way. I've met few people that actually like The Syndicate. The Syndicate is more of a business and less of a guild. The real guilds don't spend their time showboating because they are too busy playing games.
Oh? name a couple that have been around longer AND without break that does this.
I see many claims of guilds that have been around 'alot' longer but never a mention of who it was. Include a website please. Any guild that has been 'around' this long would have a site..no?
Also consider that to be around and as active as The Syndicate there needs to be some sourse of revenues. Being able to do more than the (above) average guild doesn't happen free.
Uhm, this is an article on the front page? There are forty billion guilds in the world, all of them equally uninteresting to anyone but their members. Surely this should be posted on the forums instead of the front page?
Whew !! You miss the point. The Syndicate TRUELY care about its members and is very involved in the gaming world. Thats why they are where they are and have lasted so long.
FYI, they are also involved in community work as a guild and have yearly gatherings. Very very few guilds do that and none have been so successful.
They aren't the first guild to have yearly gatherings or be active in the community and done so successfuly I might add. Guilds have been doing this long before The Syndicate was even a thought, since the early guilds of NWN on AOL which predate UO and The Syndicate. People are angry because of the obvious favortism, showboating, and ego tripping. A little humility, honesty, and integrity goes a long way. I've met few people that actually like The Syndicate. The Syndicate is more of a business and less of a guild. The real guilds don't spend their time showboating because they are too busy playing games.
Oh? name a couple that have been around longer AND without break that does this.
I see many claims of guilds that have been around 'alot' longer but never a mention of who it was. Include a website please. Any guild that has been 'around' this long would have a site..no?
Also consider that to be around and as active as The Syndicate there needs to be some sourse of revenues. Being able to do more than the (above) average guild doesn't happen free.
Didn't want to jump in the middle of this trollfest, but there are others. Just want to say that videogame guilds do *not* need to stream a source of revenue unless they decide to make it a full-time job or seek to cover costs for travel. But I do not see any of the games they are playing to require them at competitive tourny's. As for guilds...I'm trying to think back to my EQ days to see if any of the oldies are still around....my guild Paradigm was a top EQ guild but has been long gone. Fires of Heaven seems to still be active - remember them in EQ beta (98'?) but not sure if around earlier - Drow(drow.org) is still active...according to their page they started in '94....i'm sure there are others. I've never heard of 'the syndicate' until this article, so I'm assuming they aren't that prominent or stay quiet in the few games they play. I stayed away from WoW and UO (once eq hit) so that could be why.
Ok so I found their webpage and it boast this statment.
**************************
We have actively played just about every game including, but not limited to: EQ & EQ2, Warhammer, Conan, LOTRO, DCUO, Rift, SWTOR, Aion, DDO, Wizard 101, Runescape, DAOC, Eve Online, Shadowbane, Tabula Rasa, Planetside and PoTBS. Syndicate outposts cover the landscape of MMORPGs. We only actively recruit new members for our presences in two major MMOs which are the worlds of Ultima Online and World of Warcraft
*********************************
So I decided I would do a little research, since I never ever heard of this guild. Most folks I know have never heard of them.
I play eq2 on guk server so I decidided to do some cross server talk to everfrost server find out some info. Guess what nobody on that everfrost server knows to much about them either. Out of the 45 accounts they have registered they only have 3 max level toons. So if they are writing guides for eq2 they got no bussiness as they dont even have enough folks to do the max level content. much less any 6 man content unless they are pugging stuff.
Now they say the have folks in lotro who wrote guides. I used to play that game on Brandywine server. I never once even heard of them, and at one time I was in the largest guild on that server, and had my hand in everything, including several of the other large guilds. We had several guilds who banded together to run raid content back in the day. So I logged in there this morning chatted with a few of the guild leaders I knew and nobody knows them. I went to my lotro and sure enough I did a search on them. They have 5 guilds spread out over 5 servers all with the same name. The one on brandywine its my.lotro page the guild leader has deleted his account, so their web page does not load to where I can look at the roster. The other 4 guilds don't have a single toon above 50, that means they all quit when moria rolled out. So when somebody said they wrote several of the guides for lotro, I very much don't believe that statement. Kind of hard to write that kind of stuff when you have zero visibility. I did a search then via the entire lotro website, I got 1 page of hits, most of them pointing at various other guilds. Only thing I did see was the one from brandwine might have moved to monroval and changed their name to the forsaken.
Now the other games I don't have sub too, so I have no way of checking into those games.
So what I see here is what mod used to do. Their main staff was on intrepid server in swg. We had some folks in eq2, eve, and eq1, and other games. However the main hub was always swg. The guild leader use to run around acting like a big shot going look at what all I control, but when you look at the base of it yes 6 accounts here 5 accounts there, nothing like a corporation like my old guild tried to be. Oh they no longer exist as a cohesive force now.
The only difference is the syndicate is still going. However they look more like a business than a guild. Just go read that manifesto and you can see they honestly think that. I got news for you other guilds do this. Saying you got folks in other games, but really not having anything more than a small staff just to say you are their.
Now if anybody can refute my claims about eq2, and about lotro please go ahead. I actually want to see these guides that were written for lotro and for eq2 considering what kind of player base they have.
All I can say is there's a lot of hype but I really cant find much out about them on the official game websites.
What about thier future plans in this year of MMO gaming? I was thinking Syndicate was going to say which upcomming titles they were looking forward to being involved in. But if they only actively recruit in WoW and Ultima, it just seems to scream Elite Ubar guild and not as the author said," one of us" .
That is what happens when you spend more time tying to run a guild/clan as a business than actually looking for the software to better the guild.
Again this article is nothing more then a promotional tool brought to you all by the good people here at mmorpg.com... Even though last month when they did the same thing we told them that it was a waste of time and a marketing tool. Yet here we are again they just don't get it, The Syndicate is OLD news and news no one wants to hear about. Let them do the advertising for this crap on their site don't litter this one.
Gaming community: IRONFIST New World: Lilith - US East WoW Guild: IRONFIST <Burning Legion> Alliance(We transferred to Illidan) WoW Guild: IRONFIST <Illidan> Horde SWOTR: IRONFIST <Satele Shan> Empire/Republic
We have actively played just about every game including, but not limited to: EQ & EQ2, Warhammer, Conan, LOTRO, DCUO, Rift, SWTOR, Aion, DDO, Wizard 101, Runescape, DAOC, Eve Online, Shadowbane, Tabula Rasa, Planetside and PoTBS. Syndicate outposts cover the landscape of MMORPGs. We only actively recruit new members for our presences in two major MMOs which are the worlds of Ultima Online and World of Warcraft
They haven't played Hello Kitty Island Adventure?
Interview an interesting guild though if you're going to interview one. Interview some of the world first WoW guilds, or US First if you've no translators on staff.
Interview high-achieving guilds from other games as well.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
The Syndicate is still a very active guild on UO. Although, they are for the most part disliked by many because they have a very elitist attitiude. Anyways, here is their website. You can draw your own conclusions from there.
What the hell is this trash? I don't give a crap about some random guild which mass recruits members just so they can say, "We're awesome, look how many members we have! Numbers don't lie, right?"
Oh, and if this is the same 'Syndicate' I've run into a few times in WoW, then they treat non-guldies like crap. Been removed twice from LFD groups so they could replace me with a guildie just before boss fights because they 'needed a drop'. Despicable behavior.
I laughed really hard at the copyright thing though; that's pure comedy gold right there.
Yup, that sounds like them. I'd say you just encounted the most disliked guild on the Atlantic shard of Ultima Online.
We have actively played just about every game including, but not limited to: EQ & EQ2, Warhammer, Conan, LOTRO, DCUO, Rift, SWTOR, Aion, DDO, Wizard 101, Runescape, DAOC, Eve Online, Shadowbane, Tabula Rasa, Planetside and PoTBS. Syndicate outposts cover the landscape of MMORPGs. We only actively recruit new members for our presences in two major MMOs which are the worlds of Ultima Online and World of Warcraft
They haven't played Hello Kitty Island Adventure?
Interview an interesting guild though if you're going to interview one. Interview some of the world first WoW guilds, or US First if you've no translators on staff.
Interview high-achieving guilds from other games as well.
Now that you cut my post up, to make it look like I said that. Enough of that taking stuff out of context. That was the tripe they "The syndicate" had on their web page.
I call it tripe because they cant back it up and if you would have looked you would have seen where I posted my findings.
I callings shenanigans on this entire article. They claim a lot of stuff they cant back up.
That is why I am trying to get across despite you totally misquoting what I had to say in the first place.
But I do agree if there going to interview this one guild then lets interview other guilds who been around the block.
Comments
Well u did not Have to Read it All if u found it so boring
BUT......at least it stopped u having a cig - a little reprieve for ur Poor Lungs!
I am an Abstract sort of Creature
Who Dislikes any sort of Restraint
If you try to pigeonhole me
I Will Break Free!
Is this Syndicate the same guild that have the YouTube videos? If so, they r hilarious on those.
But reading the Thread, I think it is actually a good thing that gaming companies listen to them - and it is no use getting all Sarcy because u prob think ur guild is better, Sour grapes will not get u anywhere! IF u think they r or there r better guilds out there - then What is Stopping them talking to the Gaming companies as well? They have to put themselves out there to get their ideas across, I am sure it was not the gaming companies that contacted the Syndicate but visa versa! So stop being so negative!
I am sure the companies would listen to any Guild that make that Effort.
I am an Abstract sort of Creature
Who Dislikes any sort of Restraint
If you try to pigeonhole me
I Will Break Free!
Yep. Prima and the Syndicate worked together on the LotRO guidebooks. The first one was ok, but the second one (whose main selling point was that it was compiled by the Syndicate) was an absolute ripoff. I remember that the Syndicate's top guy was defending it left and right until it came out, and people saw that all they had done was copy the quest text from the journal entries.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
From what I remember, their last 'achievement" was getting Guiness to recognize them.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Seriously? A news update about an uber guild? Wow... Well, I guess it's time for me to move on to a different section of this website. I mean, I hoped that the news section would have, oh I don't know, actual news. Instead we get some nonsense from some guild leader who understands what I, as an MMO player, go through or some junk.
Who the hell is he to speak for me, or this community anyway? Just because he has some huge guild, he's automatically a spokesperson for the rest of us?
Get the f... Seriously?! I mean for realz?!?!?!~~!!!```21
-15 cool points, MMORPG.
An article about guilds, thats fine, but just about one? Maybe an article about one guild in a game, their experiances and so on. But this was vague by default, telling us little about anything.
Pretty terrible article, and its not just what its about (A single solitary guild out of millions?) Its the fact that it could have been written in one sentence:
A guild of players makes guides and talks to devs.
There you go, Done.
It wont get deleted or removed, Someone took the time and effort at MMORPG.com yet AGAIN (Even though the last one got ripped apart because this clan/guild is nothing more then a big clan who has some money). It is not a good article to read, The guild is not a good guild. All in all If I could rate this or hype it. There would be a nice No-Hype all over it...
Gaming community: IRONFIST
New World: Lilith - US East
WoW Guild: IRONFIST <Burning Legion> Alliance(We transferred to Illidan)
WoW Guild: IRONFIST <Illidan> Horde
SWOTR: IRONFIST <Satele Shan> Empire/Republic
Never heard about this guild until now..
I actualy read the book and enjoyed it. Seems the guild is involved in alot more than just gaming.
Why all the complaining? Is it just sour grapes? Anything to successful seems to come under attack here.
Complaining about a guild that has been going strong for as long as Syndicate has seems to be the norm. Gripe about success???
I'd rather see a group of experienced players giving advice that a bunch of payers with ??? gaming exp.
Think its no big deal?? Easy?? Go for it...
Whew !! You miss the point. The Syndicate TRUELY care about its members and is very involved in the gaming world. Thats why they are where they are and have lasted so long.
FYI, they are also involved in community work as a guild and have yearly gatherings. Very very few guilds do that and none have been so successful.
I think a controversial gaming community like the Goons would be much more interesting to read about. An interview on how they manage to reinvent themselves in order to massively troll game communities again and again, for instance. (Muslim Jihad warriors in EVE and All-American, christian patriots + matching arrogance in RIFT, lol).
This article and subject matter are a bit lacklustre to say the least.
My brand new bloggity blog.
They aren't the first guild to have yearly gatherings or be active in the community and done so successfuly I might add. Guilds have been doing this long before The Syndicate was even a thought, since the early guilds of NWN on AOL which predate UO and The Syndicate. People are angry because of the obvious favortism, showboating, and ego tripping. A little humility, honesty, and integrity goes a long way. I've met few people that actually like The Syndicate. The Syndicate is more of a business and less of a guild. The real guilds don't spend their time showboating because they are too busy playing games.
Banegrivm
Leader of the 1st Fist of Light
www.1stfistoflight.com
Where is the dislike button?
Oh? name a couple that have been around longer AND without break that does this.
I see many claims of guilds that have been around 'alot' longer but never a mention of who it was. Include a website please. Any guild that has been 'around' this long would have a site..no?
Also consider that to be around and as active as The Syndicate there needs to be some sourse of revenues. Being able to do more than the (above) average guild doesn't happen free.
Didn't want to jump in the middle of this trollfest, but there are others. Just want to say that videogame guilds do *not* need to stream a source of revenue unless they decide to make it a full-time job or seek to cover costs for travel. But I do not see any of the games they are playing to require them at competitive tourny's. As for guilds...I'm trying to think back to my EQ days to see if any of the oldies are still around....my guild Paradigm was a top EQ guild but has been long gone. Fires of Heaven seems to still be active - remember them in EQ beta (98'?) but not sure if around earlier - Drow(drow.org) is still active...according to their page they started in '94....i'm sure there are others. I've never heard of 'the syndicate' until this article, so I'm assuming they aren't that prominent or stay quiet in the few games they play. I stayed away from WoW and UO (once eq hit) so that could be why.
Ok so I found their webpage and it boast this statment.
**************************
We have actively played just about every game including, but not limited to: EQ & EQ2, Warhammer, Conan, LOTRO, DCUO, Rift, SWTOR, Aion, DDO, Wizard 101, Runescape, DAOC, Eve Online, Shadowbane, Tabula Rasa, Planetside and PoTBS. Syndicate outposts cover the landscape of MMORPGs. We only actively recruit new members for our presences in two major MMOs which are the worlds of Ultima Online and World of Warcraft
*********************************
So I decided I would do a little research, since I never ever heard of this guild. Most folks I know have never heard of them.
I play eq2 on guk server so I decidided to do some cross server talk to everfrost server find out some info. Guess what nobody on that everfrost server knows to much about them either. Out of the 45 accounts they have registered they only have 3 max level toons. So if they are writing guides for eq2 they got no bussiness as they dont even have enough folks to do the max level content. much less any 6 man content unless they are pugging stuff.
Now they say the have folks in lotro who wrote guides. I used to play that game on Brandywine server. I never once even heard of them, and at one time I was in the largest guild on that server, and had my hand in everything, including several of the other large guilds. We had several guilds who banded together to run raid content back in the day. So I logged in there this morning chatted with a few of the guild leaders I knew and nobody knows them. I went to my lotro and sure enough I did a search on them. They have 5 guilds spread out over 5 servers all with the same name. The one on brandywine its my.lotro page the guild leader has deleted his account, so their web page does not load to where I can look at the roster. The other 4 guilds don't have a single toon above 50, that means they all quit when moria rolled out. So when somebody said they wrote several of the guides for lotro, I very much don't believe that statement. Kind of hard to write that kind of stuff when you have zero visibility. I did a search then via the entire lotro website, I got 1 page of hits, most of them pointing at various other guilds. Only thing I did see was the one from brandwine might have moved to monroval and changed their name to the forsaken.
Now the other games I don't have sub too, so I have no way of checking into those games.
So what I see here is what mod used to do. Their main staff was on intrepid server in swg. We had some folks in eq2, eve, and eq1, and other games. However the main hub was always swg. The guild leader use to run around acting like a big shot going look at what all I control, but when you look at the base of it yes 6 accounts here 5 accounts there, nothing like a corporation like my old guild tried to be. Oh they no longer exist as a cohesive force now.
The only difference is the syndicate is still going. However they look more like a business than a guild. Just go read that manifesto and you can see they honestly think that. I got news for you other guilds do this. Saying you got folks in other games, but really not having anything more than a small staff just to say you are their.
Now if anybody can refute my claims about eq2, and about lotro please go ahead. I actually want to see these guides that were written for lotro and for eq2 considering what kind of player base they have.
All I can say is there's a lot of hype but I really cant find much out about them on the official game websites.
What about thier future plans in this year of MMO gaming? I was thinking Syndicate was going to say which upcomming titles they were looking forward to being involved in. But if they only actively recruit in WoW and Ultima, it just seems to scream Elite Ubar guild and not as the author said," one of us" .
Unless of course you are one of " those"
Work hard Play Harder
copyrighting the name syndicate for gaming purposes, thats just ridiculous and shows they take things way to seriously
i bet most if not all game guilds using the word syndicate is nothing to do with this guild
tbh I dont rate this as much of a news article but more of a promotion to this elitist guild
dont they even know that software like xfire/raptr provies cross game chat they want to try and get game companies to waste their money implementing?
That is what happens when you spend more time tying to run a guild/clan as a business than actually looking for the software to better the guild.
Again this article is nothing more then a promotional tool brought to you all by the good people here at mmorpg.com... Even though last month when they did the same thing we told them that it was a waste of time and a marketing tool. Yet here we are again they just don't get it, The Syndicate is OLD news and news no one wants to hear about. Let them do the advertising for this crap on their site don't litter this one.
Gaming community: IRONFIST
New World: Lilith - US East
WoW Guild: IRONFIST <Burning Legion> Alliance(We transferred to Illidan)
WoW Guild: IRONFIST <Illidan> Horde
SWOTR: IRONFIST <Satele Shan> Empire/Republic
They haven't played Hello Kitty Island Adventure?
Interview an interesting guild though if you're going to interview one. Interview some of the world first WoW guilds, or US First if you've no translators on staff.
Interview high-achieving guilds from other games as well.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
There are lots of Multi Gaming guild that have more than 200 people, why only Syndicate that made the news?
So What Now?
The Syndicate is still a very active guild on UO. Although, they are for the most part disliked by many because they have a very elitist attitiude. Anyways, here is their website. You can draw your own conclusions from there.
www.llts.org/index.php
Yup, that sounds like them. I'd say you just encounted the most disliked guild on the Atlantic shard of Ultima Online.
Now that you cut my post up, to make it look like I said that. Enough of that taking stuff out of context. That was the tripe they "The syndicate" had on their web page.
I call it tripe because they cant back it up and if you would have looked you would have seen where I posted my findings.
I callings shenanigans on this entire article. They claim a lot of stuff they cant back up.
That is why I am trying to get across despite you totally misquoting what I had to say in the first place.
But I do agree if there going to interview this one guild then lets interview other guilds who been around the block.