Not really. There are those of us who just don't have the extra money to spend on games, especially in this economy. I would much rather be able to try out a game, then decide if I want to Sub or just stay F2P, which most games that have become F2P recently have done(I.E Champions Online and DDO). I play Champions online and I enjoyed it when I was F2P, even though I later subbed. Typing that Cash shops are bad is dumb, because even when I played PWI I didn't cash shop and I was a damn good cleric. You can achieve the end game without cash shopping in nearly any game...the only one that comes to mind that you can't is DDO(Lvl 17 wizard here...I had to CS at lvl 8.).
MMORPGs where success is decided by the amount of money spent means that you are being locked out of content.
P2P in 6 months time span:
No-lifer will reach the end game in 1 month, for 90 USD.
Gamer with time constraint will reach the end game in 6 months, for 90 USD(6 months sub).
F2P in 6 months time span:
No-lifer will reach the end game content in 6 months, for 0 USD but still save 90 USD that can spend in Cash shop.
Gamer with time constraint will reach the end game in 1 month, for 90 USD.
No one is being locked out of content. In P2P games the easiest way to end game is through time investment while F2P favors money for easiest access to end game.
F2P model is simply better, more flexible, more scalable and in some cases it can offer better revenue.
You're out of context, we're talking about Cash Shop items that imbalances the game (such as Cash Shop equips, etc) versus games that don't (wether they are F2P or P2P).
MMORPGs where success is decided by the amount of money spent means that you are being locked out of content.
P2P in 6 months time span:
No-lifer will reach the end game in 1 month, for 90 USD.
Gamer with time constraint will reach the end game in 6 months, for 90 USD(6 months sub).
F2P in 6 months time span:
No-lifer will reach the end game content in 6 months, for 0 USD but still save 90 USD that can spend in Cash shop.
Gamer with time constraint will reach the end game in 1 month, for 90 USD.
No one is being locked out of content. In P2P games the easiest way to end game is through time investment while F2P favors money for easiest access to end game.
F2P model is simply better, more flexible, more scalable and in some cases it can offer better revenue.
^ What he said
Most people go through life pretending to be a boss. I go through life pretending I'm not.
Originally posted by MadnessRealm You're out of context, we're talking about Cash Shop items that imbalances the game (such as Cash Shop equips, etc) versus games that don't (wether they are F2P or P2P).
Then the one being out of context here is you.
Cash shop does not equal items imbalancing the game. Cash shops are essential part of F2P and optional part of P2P games.
You're out of context, we're talking about Cash Shop items that imbalances the game (such as Cash Shop equips, etc) versus games that don't (wether they are F2P or P2P).
Then the one being out of context here is you.
Cash shop does not equal items imbalancing the game. Cash shops are essential part of F2P and optional part of P2P games.
Had you bothered to read a few pages back, you'd know who I was really replying to, thus understanding the context of my post. Also, it appears that you've stopped reading my previous post right after "Cash Shop items that imbalances the game", had you read further, you'd see that I awknowledge the existence of Cash Shop that does not imbalance the game. Finally if you had also read my first few posts in this wonderfull thread, you'd see that I am defending F2Ps, as I know that not all of them are "Pay To Win" as some may call, and that there are great titles on the market, many of which I am currently playing and enjoying for that matter.
Any company out there that shows revenue and profit from cash shops yet? I know it was hard to tell if they were really making so much money before, because not one of em were in the least bit transparent with their books.
Has that changed and anyone have a link to said company?
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Any company out there that shows revenue and profit from cash shops yet? I know it was hard to tell if they were really making so much money before, because not one of em were in the least bit transparent with their books.
Has that changed and anyone have a link to said company?
The only real "solid" data we've had would be LOTRO and DDO's increase in revenue that was released approximatively 1 month after they switched to a F2P model. All I can say is that F2P companies are definitively making good profit as they are able to keep products running for long periods of time, but there's no actual numbers to my knowledge or at least as far as I can remember. One thing for sure though, is that the major F2P publishers are doing a very large amount of money. For exemple, Nexon donated in March approximatively $1.2 millions US, AND donated 100% of the proceeds made on Cash Shop Items (saves a few items for each game) between March 14th to 20th. If they are able to donate this much money, they're definitively making the big bucks from F2P games. That's the only concrete exemple I have sadly.
Any company out there that shows revenue and profit from cash shops yet? I know it was hard to tell if they were really making so much money before, because not one of em were in the least bit transparent with their books.
Has that changed and anyone have a link to said company?
The only real "solid" data we've had would be LOTRO and DDO's increase in revenue that was released approximatively 1 month after they switched to a F2P model. All I can say is that F2P companies are definitively making good profit as they are able to keep products running for long periods of time, but there's no actual numbers to my knowledge or at least as far as I can remember. One thing for sure though, is that the major F2P publishers are doing a very large amount of money. For exemple, Nexon donated in March approximatively $1.2 millions US, AND donated 100% of the proceeds made on Cash Shop Items (saves a few items for each game) between March 14th to 20th. If they are able to donate this much money, they're definitively making the big bucks from F2P games. That's the only concrete exemple I have sadly.
Well thank you for trying.
With a complete lack of information, the only conclusion one can make is they're not making any more money from the cash shops.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
this made me sleepy any way's i play vindictus but i also play rift lotro guild wars star trek lol they all do it to make money ether by monthly charge or cash shop's how do you think they get paid to make the games they don't do it out of the goodness of there harts they do it for people that fill they are more or less being under a contracted wile playing ptp games with cash shops they can come and go from the game any time they want if they see something they want they buy it that's that if they don't they don't got to pay any thing it's a cool thing in a lot of way's .
Players success shouldn't be decided by the amount of money spent, it's detrimental for the game's community and overall experience. Time-based success is different from Money-based success. MMORPGs where success is decided by the amount of money spent means that you are being locked out of content. An MMORPG where time is the deciding factor, all players have access to the same content without having to pay a fee, unless it's a P2P, in which case all players spends $15~/month. Of course casuals will take longer but they'll catch up eventually, and they're not locked out of content.
Players success shouldn't be decided by the amount of TIME spent, it's detrimental for the game's community and overall experience. MONEY-based success is different from TIME-based success. MMORPGs where success is decided by the amount of TIME spent means that you are being locked out of content. An MMORPG where MONEY is the deciding factor, all players have access to the same content without having to SPEND A LOT OF TIME, unless it's a P2P, in which case all players spends $15~/month. Of course poor players will take longer but they'll catch up eventually, and they're not locked out of content.
No one is locked out of the cash shop. If they continue to pay, they will eventually reach the max like everyone else. The level playing field is not based on the time spent, but the amount of money spent.
Great equalizer, my dollar is as good as yours.
Some people are time constraint. Some are money constraint. Some people have time to kill. Some people have money to kill. No difference to me.
Players success shouldn't be decided by the amount of money spent, it's detrimental for the game's community and overall experience.
By that right, nor should it be based on simply the amount of time invested. You have a double standard because time is cheap to you but money is not. If both had equal value to you, you'd either find both systems fair or, and this is rare for an MMO gamer to do, find it absurd that either should determine player success because in every ohter game or sport it is the player's skill and improvment at skill that determines success.
Add to that, you are playing to compete with others... even when they aren't competing with you. That's odd behavior. Not everything purchased is for the sake of competing with you. Most other players, honestly, don't know you or your endless time exist, nor do they care. Especially in a PVE MMO where most competition between players doesn't exist anywhere but in the competing player's mind.
Detrimental to the game's community and overall experience? So if your neighbor has a better car than you, you're going to have a negative impression of him? Or does your blokc run off any doctors that want to move in because they aren't in the same economic bracket as you? How exactly does someone's sparkle pony, extra heal potions, or limited edition hat negatively impact the communmity?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
No one is locked out of the cash shop. If they continue to pay, they will eventually reach the max like everyone else. The level playing field is not based on the time spent, but the amount of money spent.
Great equalizer, my dollar is as good as yours.
Some people are time constraint. Some are money constraint. Some people have time to kill. Some people have money to kill. No difference to me.
Players success shouldn't be decided by the amount of money spent, it's detrimental for the game's community and overall experience.
By that right, nor should it be based on simply the amount of time invested.
Why not? If I play Golf daily, I'd expect to be "better" than many at some point, get used to different terrains, etc. Of course, this doesn't mean that a golf players who only play on week-ends can't be better, since it's a sport based on the player's ability. But nonetheless, if I played for a longer period of time, I do have an edge in various areas that the golfer who only plays on week-end will take longer to achieve. It's the same in everything.
Also, do not jump to conclusions regarding what is cheap to me or not. In fact, It's the complete opposite of what you said. I have hardly 1-2 hours a day where I can play, as I work full-time and got to take care of all the chores in the house, plus walk the dog for 1 hour, everyday. It is expected that players who've played longer than I did will have an edge, but that doesn't stop me from being competitive. What does stop me though, are MMOs where Cash Shops offers game breaking items that are a "necessity" to access certain content.
Also, on your last point. The internet community is not like a neighbor with an expensive car. The internet community can be very elitist at times, and trash talking is very common. If you allow players to buy their way up, you're simply increasing this negative behavior. This also alienates a large part of the playerbase who has decided not to spent money, or not as much money, creating a "wall" within the community, which ends up being split between the "cool kids with cash" and "the others". By alienating your community, you're effectively reducing your playerbase, and the overall enjoyement of the game, as the playerbase continues to shrink, until only the small elitist community is left.
Comments
Not really. There are those of us who just don't have the extra money to spend on games, especially in this economy. I would much rather be able to try out a game, then decide if I want to Sub or just stay F2P, which most games that have become F2P recently have done(I.E Champions Online and DDO). I play Champions online and I enjoyed it when I was F2P, even though I later subbed. Typing that Cash shops are bad is dumb, because even when I played PWI I didn't cash shop and I was a damn good cleric. You can achieve the end game without cash shopping in nearly any game...the only one that comes to mind that you can't is DDO(Lvl 17 wizard here...I had to CS at lvl 8.).
You're out of context, we're talking about Cash Shop items that imbalances the game (such as Cash Shop equips, etc) versus games that don't (wether they are F2P or P2P).
^ What he said
Most people go through life pretending to be a boss. I go through life pretending I'm not.
Then the one being out of context here is you.
Cash shop does not equal items imbalancing the game. Cash shops are essential part of F2P and optional part of P2P games.
Had you bothered to read a few pages back, you'd know who I was really replying to, thus understanding the context of my post. Also, it appears that you've stopped reading my previous post right after "Cash Shop items that imbalances the game", had you read further, you'd see that I awknowledge the existence of Cash Shop that does not imbalance the game. Finally if you had also read my first few posts in this wonderfull thread, you'd see that I am defending F2Ps, as I know that not all of them are "Pay To Win" as some may call, and that there are great titles on the market, many of which I am currently playing and enjoying for that matter.
Any company out there that shows revenue and profit from cash shops yet? I know it was hard to tell if they were really making so much money before, because not one of em were in the least bit transparent with their books.
Has that changed and anyone have a link to said company?
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
For f2p games.. Only item shop are they only way to get revenue and sales and continue working for the game...
The only real "solid" data we've had would be LOTRO and DDO's increase in revenue that was released approximatively 1 month after they switched to a F2P model. All I can say is that F2P companies are definitively making good profit as they are able to keep products running for long periods of time, but there's no actual numbers to my knowledge or at least as far as I can remember. One thing for sure though, is that the major F2P publishers are doing a very large amount of money. For exemple, Nexon donated in March approximatively $1.2 millions US, AND donated 100% of the proceeds made on Cash Shop Items (saves a few items for each game) between March 14th to 20th. If they are able to donate this much money, they're definitively making the big bucks from F2P games. That's the only concrete exemple I have sadly.
Well thank you for trying.
With a complete lack of information, the only conclusion one can make is they're not making any more money from the cash shops.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
this made me sleepy any way's i play vindictus but i also play rift lotro guild wars star trek lol they all do it to make money ether by monthly charge or cash shop's how do you think they get paid to make the games they don't do it out of the goodness of there harts they do it for people that fill they are more or less being under a contracted wile playing ptp games with cash shops they can come and go from the game any time they want if they see something they want they buy it that's that if they don't they don't got to pay any thing it's a cool thing in a lot of way's .
Players success shouldn't be decided by the amount of TIME spent, it's detrimental for the game's community and overall experience. MONEY-based success is different from TIME-based success. MMORPGs where success is decided by the amount of TIME spent means that you are being locked out of content. An MMORPG where MONEY is the deciding factor, all players have access to the same content without having to SPEND A LOT OF TIME, unless it's a P2P, in which case all players spends $15~/month. Of course poor players will take longer but they'll catch up eventually, and they're not locked out of content.
By that right, nor should it be based on simply the amount of time invested. You have a double standard because time is cheap to you but money is not. If both had equal value to you, you'd either find both systems fair or, and this is rare for an MMO gamer to do, find it absurd that either should determine player success because in every ohter game or sport it is the player's skill and improvment at skill that determines success.
Add to that, you are playing to compete with others... even when they aren't competing with you. That's odd behavior. Not everything purchased is for the sake of competing with you. Most other players, honestly, don't know you or your endless time exist, nor do they care. Especially in a PVE MMO where most competition between players doesn't exist anywhere but in the competing player's mind.
Detrimental to the game's community and overall experience? So if your neighbor has a better car than you, you're going to have a negative impression of him? Or does your blokc run off any doctors that want to move in because they aren't in the same economic bracket as you? How exactly does someone's sparkle pony, extra heal potions, or limited edition hat negatively impact the communmity?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Why not? If I play Golf daily, I'd expect to be "better" than many at some point, get used to different terrains, etc. Of course, this doesn't mean that a golf players who only play on week-ends can't be better, since it's a sport based on the player's ability. But nonetheless, if I played for a longer period of time, I do have an edge in various areas that the golfer who only plays on week-end will take longer to achieve. It's the same in everything.
Also, do not jump to conclusions regarding what is cheap to me or not. In fact, It's the complete opposite of what you said. I have hardly 1-2 hours a day where I can play, as I work full-time and got to take care of all the chores in the house, plus walk the dog for 1 hour, everyday. It is expected that players who've played longer than I did will have an edge, but that doesn't stop me from being competitive. What does stop me though, are MMOs where Cash Shops offers game breaking items that are a "necessity" to access certain content.
Also, on your last point. The internet community is not like a neighbor with an expensive car. The internet community can be very elitist at times, and trash talking is very common. If you allow players to buy their way up, you're simply increasing this negative behavior. This also alienates a large part of the playerbase who has decided not to spent money, or not as much money, creating a "wall" within the community, which ends up being split between the "cool kids with cash" and "the others". By alienating your community, you're effectively reducing your playerbase, and the overall enjoyement of the game, as the playerbase continues to shrink, until only the small elitist community is left.