Another case of poor guide-player interaction

Mirokata

So in light of sudo's expose of the trash GuideSofiel (Interestingly enough, one of two culprits in the following story), and my remembering that MMORPG.com Xsyon board exist,  I've decided I'll share this event with y'all here, since I'm perma-IP banned from the Xsyon Boards [Hi Birdus!].

 

STORY: So BAD AS CAN had just moved their tribe to the corner of the world in an attempt to escape the crippling lag and FPS (it worked), when we notice a guide at the bottom of a cliff near our base. No surpise we thought, we'd been here for 10 minutes and already the 2 people in our general chat we're noticably upset by us and had likely typed /help we're beeing GRIEFED.  A few minutes later though, we stumble upon this sight on the borders of our tribe land:

As you can see in the picture, GuideSofiel and GuideLailah are standing on the border of our tribe land and picking up junk (the piles are hers). We try to attack them a few times, but they're immune, so we stand around spamming emotes [PROTIP: YOU CAN CANCEL THE DELAY BETWEEN EMOTES BY ACTIVATING SIT OR REST] while these two chat logs play out:

(in the below log I didnt realize GuideSofiel was one of the culprits, hehe)

There you have it, apparently these two scumguides don't see an issue with using up our resources while invincible - it is "free for all" after all! Can't wait to see these two on the battlefield, just looting your corpse since it's free for all.

 

UPDATE: (No quotes here because I'm paraphrasing from memory, I didn't take screenshots because iLL didn't want to post any since he would get banned)

I spoke with GuideSofiel again some time after this while searching the /help channel for human being with a brain. She explained to me that she was taking junk from our area in order to build a new player town where new players can learn the game. She also explained that, as a guide, she is tasked with the important job of TESTING THE GAME so that she can find bugs to report, and that this was also part of that. She didn't believe me when I said that was the stupidest thing a GM's ever told me, and suggested I contact GuideRaguel or Birdus about the problem.

I ended up getting a hold of GuideRaguel the next day and he confirmed that they are building a new player town and that gathering junk from our area was part of that. I asked him if he saw the problem with having TWO invulnerable guides using up our resources - His response was that the guides had to get the junk from somewhere. When I asked him to add some junk back he said he couldn't do that but that junk slowly respawns (LOL - I thought junk depletion was supposed to be an important game mechanic?).

 

I think the best part of this demonstration of retardation is that the guides are spending their time building a new player tribe that will probably never need to be used.

 

{mod edit - images resized}

 

Worstluck

I have no comment regarding your situation (because its a lot of nothing), but as far as guides, that is not the same guide from Sudo's problem.  That guide was kicked off the guide team.  They reuse guide names, so it is most likely a different person, same name.

mrcalhou

Wow, that sucks. Let the GMs be players and this will happen everytime.

quentin405

 I play Xsyon, I don't know what to tell you... I would have made friends with them though , had alot of fun getting animals spawned for me in beta from ... a guide whom I probably should not mention .. (fears the vicious and sensitive Xsyon ban hammer )

 

Mirokata

Originally posted by Worstluck

I have no comment regarding your situation (because its a lot of nothing), but as far as guides, that is not the same guide from Sudo's problem.  That guide was kicked off the guide team.  They reuse guide names, so it is most likely a different person, same name.

This happened maybe a week or so ago, so there is a good chance they're the same person.

I know very well that they recycle guide names, as made apparent by an ex-lead Guide (who had previously perma-banned my account from the forums) who left the team, was offended by the reuse of his name, and now that the game is a massive flop, has come out in the IRC bashing Birdus for being an idiot and Jordi for being stubborn and unrealistic.

Originally posted by quentin405

 I play Xsyon, I don't know what to tell you... I would have made friends with them though , had alot of fun getting animals spawned for me in beta from ... a guide whom I probably should not mention .. (fears the vicious and sensitive Xsyon ban hammer )

 

Yeah, we had a lot of fun getting animals spawned on us when we tried to play beta too

Worstluck

Then yes, it was the same person.  As you can see though, that person is no longer a guide.  I also know of the ex-guide, who got but hurt that they reused his name.  I would not call this game a flop, that is taking a bit far.  A lot of people are frustrated yeah, but it's too early to say the game is flop.

rhinok

1. 
   The actual players were incredibly rude - there's no excuse for that
2. 
   They weren't "your"resources.  If they're outside your tribal land, tough noogies.  Unfortunately, in this case, there's nothing you could have done about it.
3. 
   Guides shouldn't be allowed to "play" on their guide characters. Since there's one char/account, they should have two accounts - one to be used for their guide characters and one for actually playing. In this case, there's a clear conflict of interest.  If they were regular players, you could have fought them for the resources, but since they're immune they can do whatever they want as "players" with no adverse consequences.  Obviously, this means they can stand just outside your tribal land and scavenge all day long--thereby making it more difficult for your tribe to gather resources--without fear of retaliation. 
4. 
   Reusng guide names is a bad, bad idea - how are you supposed to install confidence in your guides if you reuse names for past guides with whom players may have had bad experiences?
5. 
   There needs to be more professional oversight of the actual guides.  Without it, there will be a neverending stream of complaints, many legitimate, due to unprofessional behavior.  I'm okay with volunteer guides, but a paid employee needs to be responsible for managing them, ensuring they're behaving appropriately, not abusing their privileges or granting unfair advantages to friends, etc...

~Ripper

Mirokata

Originally posted by rhinok

1. 
   The actual players were incredibly rude - there's no excuse for that
2. 
   They weren't "your"resources.  If they're outside your tribal land, tough noogies.  Unfortunately, in this case, there's nothing you could have done about it.
3. 
   Guides shouldn't be allowed to "play" on their guide characters. Since there's one char/account, they should have two accounts - one to be used for their guide characters and one for actually playing. In this case, there's a clear conflict of interest.  If they were regular players, you could have fought them for the resources, but since they're immune they can do whatever they want as "players" with no adverse consequences.  Obviously, this means they can stand just outside your tribal land and scavenge all day long--thereby making it more difficult for your tribe to gather resources--without fear of retaliation. 
4. 
   Reusng guide names is a bad, bad idea - how are you supposed to install confidence in your guides if you reuse names for past guides with whom players may have had bad experiences?
5. 
   There needs to be more professional oversight of the actual guides.  Without it, there will be a neverending stream of complaints, many legitimate, due to unprofessional behavior.  I'm okay with volunteer guides, but a paid employee needs to be responsible for managing them, ensuring they're behaving appropriately, not abusing their privileges or granting unfair advantages to friends, etc...

~Ripper

{mod edit}

3. There is an important point we're missing here. They're not only directly hurting players (my tribe, in this instance), but hurting us by putting up a new player tribe with Guide resources. Setting up a new player tribe/area/city is traditionally a pretty big part of a sandbox community. Now we just have one less thing to do in this game.

4. Agreed. Jordi's reasoning in the case of ex-lead guide was that he was too busy to make a new account. I don't know if his laziness, or his lack of foresight and ethics is most important to point out here...

5. Agreed.

Ravnos80

So that's all that whole ordeal was? How ridiculous. If they were gathering they can carry 4 things on their back at once...and if they were scavenging they weren't actually taking anything from the junk pile. So big freaking deal. More over, the junk pile was outside the tribal radius...it doesn't belong to the tribe. Yes, normally you'd be able to kill a regular player gathering/scavenging/running across your junk pile but this time you couldn't. 

Big

Freakin'

Deal

 

Sounds like another cry fest from Ill...sad...

Sinella

Originally posted by rhinok

1. 
   The actual players were incredibly rude - there's no excuse for that   Agree
2. 
   They weren't "your"resources.  If they're outside your tribal land, tough noogies.  Unfortunately, in this case, there's nothing you could have done about it.  Agree
3. 
   Guides shouldn't be allowed to "play" on their guide characters. Since there's one char/account, they should have two accounts - one to be used for their guide characters and one for actually playing. In this case, there's a clear conflict of interest.  If they were regular players, you could have fought them for the resources, but since they're immune they can do whatever they want as "players" with no adverse consequences.  Obviously, this means they can stand just outside your tribal land and scavenge all day long--thereby making it more difficult for your tribe to gather resources--without fear of retaliation.  Guides do have 2 account, 1 for guide character and 1 for playing. The guide was doing a task which was given by the developers, he wasn't playing the game on his normal account.

All this happened a while ago, and this is the same guide who has been removed from the team. 

Kyleran

On the surface of things it does seem to be an abuse of GM power and the Dev's are wrong to condone it. In a FFA world resources 'belong' to those willing to fight for them and GM's / Dev'sdo not have the right to violate this premise.

Ravnos80

I used Ill, and I appologize, because I saw his name in one of your snippets, complaing and being quite rude to the guides. Just to clarify, so I don't come across as a "joke" again' - Ill said:

"taking our sh*t and you're immune? wtf bullsh*t gtfo idiots"

Sofiel goes on to appologize stating they weren't on tribal land and just looking to scavenge.

And acting the brat as normal ill continues to "Screenshotted and reported"

idiotic if you ask me

Then Judaires (you?) goes on to report guides, not on tribal land, for scavenging on an open junk pile.

Also idiotic.

But just to correct it for your pleasure, sounds a lot like Judiaires crying about something stupid.

 

You guys are such a joke, man.

 

PS - was it really, REALLY the "immersion" you were concerned about? Seriously? 

 

No, i doubt it...

Acebets70

Just like EVE  huh?  No thx  Next game please!

mrcalhou

Originally posted by Kyleran

On the surface of things it does seem to be an abuse of GM power and the Dev's are wrong to condone it. In a FFA world resources 'belong' to those willing to fight for them and GM's / Dev'sdo not have the right to violate this premise.

This how I think too. But most of the community seems to think that they need to put a safe zone around resources to prevent other people from "griefing" their supply (I'm not talking about the tribe in this thread).

Ravnos80

In this particular instance Sofiel said they were looking to scavenge. Scavenging, if you don't know, in Xsyon does NOT take from the resources in the junk pile. You can, if you want, continuously scavenge in one spot and if your skill is high enough, theoretically, find something every single time. 

If all they were doing was scavenging, they were harming no one and using no resources. They were just there...

rhinok

Originally posted by Sinella

Originally posted by rhinok

1. 
   The actual players were incredibly rude - there's no excuse for that   Agree
2. 
   They weren't "your"resources.  If they're outside your tribal land, tough noogies.  Unfortunately, in this case, there's nothing you could have done about it.  Agree
3. 
   Guides shouldn't be allowed to "play" on their guide characters. Since there's one char/account, they should have two accounts - one to be used for their guide characters and one for actually playing. In this case, there's a clear conflict of interest.  If they were regular players, you could have fought them for the resources, but since they're immune they can do whatever they want as "players" with no adverse consequences.  Obviously, this means they can stand just outside your tribal land and scavenge all day long--thereby making it more difficult for your tribe to gather resources--without fear of retaliation.  Guides do have 2 account, 1 for guide character and 1 for playing. The guide was doing a task which was given by the developers, he wasn't playing the game on his normal account.

All this happened a while ago, and this is the same guide who has been removed from the team. 

Thanks for clarifying and I just saw the update, too.  Big fuss about nothing...

~Ripper

Ravnos80

Originally posted by Mirokata

{mod edit}

Scavenging in Xsyon usage is commonly used for both the Scavenging skill, and 'Picking Up Junk Metal/Plastic/Shit'. In this particular instance, like I showed in the screenshots, she was 'Picking Up Junk Metal/Plastic/Shit', as evident by the piles of scrap metal around her.

 

{mod edit}  I'm giving actual responses to the thread you posted. Not just "no! you suck!".

Is that junk hers? I figured it belonged to your tribe since it wasn't on her back and it was next to some basket other than hers.

That's rather subjective in the context of the screen shot. The people I play with normally use the term "scavenge" in reference to the skill and tend to say something like "I'm going to gather leather".

But, everyone speaks differently. So, who knows...

 

Edit: I just noticed, from your earlier reply:

 Me : and if they were scavenging they weren't actually taking anything from the junk pile

You: They weren't, however the presence of 2 invulnerable Guide's standing around your base would be a big enough annoyance and immersion-breaker for me to care anyways

The story seems to be different about what they were doing in your two posts. At least keep the story straight if you're going point an accusing finger at someone.

sudo

I don't get it... How can they allow themselves to make the same mistakes Ultima Online did in 98?? You can never ever let GMs play the same game they are monitoring. Are they even testing the people they hire or do they just let anybody onboard, giving them a GM toolset and letting them play the same character while not at work?

I am sorry to say so, but this is a complete joke. This is a pure power abuse and no self-respecting company can allow themselves to look like this, especially not while doing it in their costumers faces.

Jordi can be a great programmer, but his management is close to nonexistent, sometimes I even wonder if he remembers that he is actualy serving paying costumers and not letting his close friends from Skype to test his game. First, he changes his mind on some game-breaking aspects one month before the final release from once to three-four times EACH WEEK, and now this...

Ravnos80

Ia it not possible, Sudo, that in this instance the Guides were doing some assigned task. I mean, on a Guide account what need do they have for scavenged items?

maskedweasel

First, they were not on tribal territory, so technically it wasn't "your" junk pile.    

 

They were invincible however,  which is unfair, especially in the sense that you could have killed them, then they, to retaliate, could have come back to kill you once you stepped out of your tribal area.

 

Also, scavenging and gathering are two different things.  You gather plastic, metal, grass, sticks, etc.  You scavenge using the skill, or forage in the same vein.

 

I also think it could have been handled somewhat differently,  so really I disagree with the guides AND with the OP,   I don't think anything that was done here was handled properly at all.

eoweth

The ridiculous thing here is that game employees would need to take resources from players in order to construct something. How are there not tools available to the developers to get around that? That and reusing names of customer service people, that's completely insane. Not to mention the atrocious spelling and player interaction of the guides themselves. The devs are doing a very amateurish job running this game from the sounds of it.

Unknown

Sheesh someone needs to review logs of GM activity daily with each GM and let them know when they are being as big a jerks as the folks they are monitoring.

If they are building a new town why isn't it near a junk pile?  I'm assuming this is a town on Founder's Island - if the island doesn't have junk piles then someone needs to put some in.  For that matter why are guildes building a town at all?  If this is a project to improve the new player experience the new players should be building it.

I don't know the players in this situation but it would drive me nuts to have a guide hanging out right on my border.

Dragim

The whole interaction between the people named was just bad.  The guide could have been better in the way that they scavenged, (also if they are building a new player city, why not make their own resources? Or use their uber guide powers to instantly find some junk in a really obscure area.

Also, the person who was talking to the guide is just a joke.  I am sure that they interact with any player in this manner, so with seeing how they spoke to the guide, regardless of whether they were indeed a guide with invlunerability or not, shows how immature they are.

Also, I must say some of the quoting going on is high caliber stuff.  You guys really put a lot of effort into your posts.  Alas I just don't care enough to spell check and highlight things in red and all that jazz.

jeremyjodes

Sadly I'm making popcorn for this thread.

xyberviri

Originally posted by Dragim

The whole interaction between the people named was just bad.  The guide could have been better in the way that they scavenged, (also if they are building a new player city, why not make their own resources? Or use their uber guide powers to instantly find some junk in a really obscure area.

Guides can't make stuff out of thin air.

most likely they were going to this obsure location and ill moved his tribe there.

Resources outside of tribe land are FFA

seabeast

Seems like a  legitimate complaint to me, seen similar in MO which forced me to leave. The bottom line for me is that the staff should not be playing the game for any personal use. Conflict of intrest issues will develop regardless if staff is engaged with other clans (MO comes to mind) or not. The  players approach was extrem and a path of a more...subtle way may have provided better results however, staff should not be taking from the player hence, game development.