Another developer at SV let go

cirsyndic

Sone: Beats me, dont work at SV anymore

Sone: Well... I believe the papers will say "Lack of work" if you look into it. I wont go into commenting any further than that.

Sone: Been more or less sick as a dog since I got let go so not feeling very well :P. but thatll pass. Thought Id get into the mobile games devving while waiting for a new job

Sone: thx . Im sad to see the community go tbh. Always was the best part of MO

Sone: hah! THen you shouldve seen the plans I had for crafting and flash . THAT wouldve made you cry. Now it wont happen

Sone: I left the office feb 28th

Sone: Tricksy question... Ive had tons of great times at SV. Fun work really. FUn but destructive. Too much work really.

I -snipped- out the non-relevant bits for easy viewing. Somehow I feel the poor guy was let go because of financial difficulties, what do you guys think?

Miles-Prower

Let me don my tin-foil hat, but I think there's more going on than he lets on =P.

 

~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!

Slapshot1188

In Henrick's message from last month to the stockholders he references a new reduced cost structure when talking about the 1500 new subs needed to break even.   Layoffs shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

osmunda

Originally posted by cirsyndic

I -snipped- out the non-relevant bits for easy viewing. Somehow I feel the poor guy was let go because of financial difficulties, what do you guys think?

I think you snipped out a bit too much.

Who is Sone?

Where did you see this?

If we go with the assumption that "sone" means Henrik Sonesson why is his account still listed as aa developer and highlighted as a developer? http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/members/henrik-sonesson.html  Also, why is he suddenly such a chatty cathy when he's made a total of 46 posts in 2 years?

When i try to put any of the lines into google, I get back one search result... This thread.

 

P.S. It wouldn't be the first time people assumed Henrik Sonesson was no longer at SV.  http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/53937-sone.html#post1029281

funkmastaD

This is what we call a slow news cycle.

 

 

 

Slapshot1188

Originally posted by funkmastaD

This is what we call a slow news cycle.

 

 

 

 How many actual programmers do they have? 3?  4?   When you lose 1 of the few people that are actually doing the coding... in a game that needs a LOT of coding work.. that would be news.  Especially if it's related to their financial situation.

HerculesSAS

I find it hard to imagine how a company that plans on attracting new customers (the 1500 they need) is cutting costs by letting go the people that actually would help them attract those customers.

 

If anybody, the person that needs to be fired is Mats because the "design" is kind of irrelvant now and anybody can wing it, and also Maerlyn because the community has already gone to crap and it's no point in paying somebody to tell you the obvious.

 

Good products need no advertising, and if they were poised to make MO a good product, then the customers would come. If the product sucks, then it's the marketing people you keep -- just like they are keeping Maerlyn.

funkmastaD

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Originally posted by funkmastaD

This is what we call a slow news cycle.

 

 

 

 How many actual programmers do they have? 3?  4?   When you lose 1 of the few people that are actually doing the coding... in a game that needs a LOT of coding work.. that would be news.  Especially if it's related to their financial situation.

 

This discussion would be a lot easier if OP would let us know where this chat came from.  MO IRC?  If so, you'd think it'd be elsewhere (like, say, the dev tracker where every dev IRC comment is logged off-site.  I checked, it's not there).  

 

I understand the desire to explore the ramifications of such a development, but why is osmunda the only guy going "umm, where did this come from?"  Given the importance you place on this, I'd think there'd be more interest in how the story broke.

Slapshot1188

Originally posted by funkmastaD

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Originally posted by funkmastaD

This is what we call a slow news cycle.

 

 

 

 How many actual programmers do they have? 3?  4?   When you lose 1 of the few people that are actually doing the coding... in a game that needs a LOT of coding work.. that would be news.  Especially if it's related to their financial situation.

 

This discussion would be a lot easier if OP would let us know where this chat came from.  MO IRC?  If so, you'd think it'd be elsewhere (like, say, the dev tracker where every dev IRC comment is logged off-site.  I checked, it's not there).  

 

I understand the desire to explore the ramifications of such a development, but why is osmunda the only guy going "umm, where did this come from?"  Given the importance you place on this, I'd think there'd be more interest in how the story broke.

 Guess we can stop debating about the TRUTHFULNESS of the OP now: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/henrik-sonesson/26/8a8/a28

funkmastaD

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Originally posted by funkmastaD

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Originally posted by funkmastaD

This is what we call a slow news cycle.

 

 

 

 How many actual programmers do they have? 3?  4?   When you lose 1 of the few people that are actually doing the coding... in a game that needs a LOT of coding work.. that would be news.  Especially if it's related to their financial situation.

 

This discussion would be a lot easier if OP would let us know where this chat came from.  MO IRC?  If so, you'd think it'd be elsewhere (like, say, the dev tracker where every dev IRC comment is logged off-site.  I checked, it's not there).  

 

I understand the desire to explore the ramifications of such a development, but why is osmunda the only guy going "umm, where did this come from?"  Given the importance you place on this, I'd think there'd be more interest in how the story broke.

 Guess we can stop debating about the TRUTHFULNESS of the OP now: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/henrik-sonesson/26/8a8/a28

 

No need to be so defensive,  I wasn't calling you/OP a liar, I was merely asking for context.

Heretique

Working as Intended.

Slapshot1188

Originally posted by funkmastaD

 

No need to be so defensive,  I wasn't calling you/OP a liar, I was merely asking for context.

 Thats fine.. I just hope that at this point we can stop debating the validity of the info and start to discuss the actual impact of the layoff (and possible others).  I'm not sure how many programmers are at SV... I doubt it was more than 3 or 4.  Given the admitted amount of work the game needs, losing 25-33% of the staff that can actually do that work is a huge impact.

funkmastaD

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Originally posted by funkmastaD

 

No need to be so defensive,  I wasn't calling you/OP a liar, I was merely asking for context.

 Thats fine.. I just hope that at this point we can stop debating the validity of the info and start to discuss the actual impact of the layoff (and possible others).  I'm not sure how many programmers are at SV... I doubt it was more than 3 or 4.  Given the admitted amount of work the game needs, losing 25-33% of the staff that can actually do that work is a huge impact.

 

 

Well, but you saying that the current coders (including Sone)  "can actually do that work" seems contrary to what you've been saying before.    Obviously the common opinion (on this forum) is that SV's coders were inadequate...

Slapshot1188

Originally posted by funkmastaD

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Originally posted by funkmastaD

 

No need to be so defensive,  I wasn't calling you/OP a liar, I was merely asking for context.

 Thats fine.. I just hope that at this point we can stop debating the validity of the info and start to discuss the actual impact of the layoff (and possible others).  I'm not sure how many programmers are at SV... I doubt it was more than 3 or 4.  Given the admitted amount of work the game needs, losing 25-33% of the staff that can actually do that work is a huge impact.

 

 

Well, but you saying that the current coders (including Sone)  "can actually do that work" seems contrary to what you've been saying before.    Obviously the common opinion (on this forum) is that SV's coders were inadequate...

 If you have some evidence that they are hiring BETTER programmers please present it.  Given the reference by the CEO to their new lower cost structure followed by the layoff of at least one key member I see no such evidence myself.   Otherwise it's like bailing out a boat.  If the boat is slowly sinking with 3 people bailing, it's just gonna sink faster when there's only 2...

 

PS: This guy was let go in Jan.... http://www.linkedin.com/pub/daniel-adler/17/129/186

and they let their sound guy go at the end of last year: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/henrik-ekholm/18/8a5/b11

PPS: This guy looks like he was just let go this month (AI programmer):  http://www.linkedin.com/in/rlovgren

 

So yeah.. I think we now have confirmation on how the new "lower cost structure" was achieved...

osmunda

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

 If you have some evidence that they are hiring BETTER programmers please present it.  Given the reference by the CEO to their new lower cost structure followed by the layoff of at least one key member I see no such evidence myself.   Otherwise it's like bailing out a boat.  If the boat is slowly sinking with 3 people bailing, it's just gonna sink faster when there's only 2...

PS: This guy was let go in Jan.... http://www.linkedin.com/pub/daniel-adler/17/129/186

and they let their sound guy go at the end of last year: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/henrik-ekholm/18/8a5/b11

PPS: This guy looks like he was just let go this month (AI programmer):  http://www.linkedin.com/in/rlovgren

So yeah.. I think we now have confirmation on how the new "lower cost structure" was achieved...

Good finds all...

Also Henrik Sonesson now has a grey name on the official forum. 

My issue with the OP was not so much that I thought he was lying as the fact that when he "-snipped- out the non-relevant bits for easy viewing" he also snipped out any context or verifiability. Rumor and innuendo can be true but also can lead to alot more speculation than if you just lay out the facts. Just how much trouble would it have been for the OP to use henrik's full name instead of just the name used in the chat room / irc / PM / wherever this conversation took place?

Sometimes it seems that there are no new threads on this forum, just new versions of old threads. That being said here is an update of the list I made in October.

 

White= still employed       Blue= former employee      Gold= new hire (i.e. since July 2008)  Goldenrod=newer (since october)

!Sebastian Persson    Occupation: Programmer/Muscle Man



Christian Mörck              Occupation: Leader Programmer                              August 2008



Daniel Adler                        Occupation: Programmer                                            January 2011



Denny Lindberg                  Occupation: Animator                                                    April 2010



Erik Lindgren                       Occupation: Game Artist



Hannu Kokkonen               Occupation: Concept Artist



Henrik Sonesson               Occupation: Developer                                               February 2011



Henrik Nystrom                Occupation: CEO & Founder



Joel Andersson                Occupation: Game Artist                                            February 2009



Markus Lovdell                 Occupation: Programmer/Game Artist                    unsure



Mats Persson                   Occupation: Creative Director



Patrik Jarlestam              Occupation: Composing Music

Albin Esbjörnsson           AI programmer

Andreas Springare           Level Designer                                              October 2010

Emil Jones                        Programmer

Fredrick Metcalf                  Developer

Heke                                     Business Developer

Henrik Ekholm                  Sound designer                                             October 2010

Maerlyn                                Community manager

Pompeii                               Master of the game

Roger Lovgren                    Developer                                                      March 2011

Wiktor Ohman                     Developer

Interns: Henrik Yang, Kennie Nilsson, Niklas Wennersten, Pontus Almen

Anthony Morales               Lead animator/Technical Artist

 

sources: mortal online dev tracker, mortal online forums, linkedin

Slapshot1188

You are listing people hired 3 years ago as "new hires"?  OK.. thats quite a stretch...how about new hires in the last 6 months? As far as I know that was one animator from 5 or 6 months back.(FYI Pompeii was let go awhile back as well)

 

Henrik Sonnesen PROGRAMER

Roger Lovgren AI PROGRAMER

Daniel Adler PROGRAMER

Andreas Springare LEVEL DESIGNER

Markus Lovdell (unknown if he was a programer but his posts seem to indicate it)

Henrik Eckholm SOUND DESIGNER

POMPEII - Head GameMaster

 

Those are folks who were let go in the last 6 months.   One person was added:

Anthony Morales - Lead Animator

 

So in the last 6 months they let go of 6 or 7 employees most of whom were programers or level designers, and hired an animator.

Does that sound like they are heading in the right direction?

 

cirsyndic

If that list is correct and up-to-date, that means that since Pompeii left they haven't hired anyone to oversee the volunteer Acolytes/Counselors/High Counselors/Game Masters they have.

So, the GM's are 100% players with nobody on the payroll to oversee them.

Slapshot1188

BTW they let another programmer go so now as far as I can tell they are down to just Seb and Emil.

 

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/members/albin-esbjoernsson.html

 

He was the other AI programmer, so now they let both AI programers go.

 

 

WOW.. talk about cleaning house.  Thats 9 guys (add Maerlyn who is gone today as well)  gone recently from a tiny studio!

cirsyndic

Originally posted by osmunda

Good finds all...

Also Henrik Sonesson now has a grey name on the official forum. 

My issue with the OP was not so much that I thought he was lying as the fact that when he "-snipped- out the non-relevant bits for easy viewing" he also snipped out any context or verifiability. Rumor and innuendo can be true but also can lead to alot more speculation than if you just lay out the facts. Just how much trouble would it have been for the OP to use henrik's full name instead of just the name used in the chat room / irc / PM / wherever this conversation took place?

Sometimes it seems that there are no new threads on this forum, just new versions of old threads. That being said here is an update of the list I made in October.

 

 

Here's what my IRC source says:

Osmunda: OK So we are not allowed to calmly discuss losing 5 programmers and the CM in just a few weeks Talwin? You are going to censor ME? After literally years of fighting for this game? Its not like I have done anything wrong in what I posted above, but if that is your attitude then goodbye

How did it become 5 programmers btw? From what I know, in the last few weeks its been 2 programmers & CM, tho Maerlyn always liked to call himself a "Developer". Not quite sure what he developed, besides a troll-fest that the forum is now.

EDIT:

Ok, 3 programmers. Just saw what Slapshot posted.

breaker09

Doesn't look too good for MO... How could they possibly expect to fix all the current problems and implement new content with only a couple of developers? Well I guess it wouldn't be impossible if said developers were exceptionally good, but so far there hasn't been much evidence to that effect.

osmunda

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

You are listing people hired 3 years ago as "new hires"?  OK.. thats quite a stretch...how about new hires in the last 6 months? As far as I know that was one animator from 5 or 6 months back.(FYI Pompeii was let go awhile back as well)

 

 

 

White= still employed       Blue= former employee      Gold= new hire (i.e. since July 2008)  Goldenrod=newer (since october)

!Sebastian Persson    Occupation: Programmer/Muscle Man



Christian Mörck              Occupation: Leader Programmer                              August 2008



Daniel Adler                        Occupation: Programmer                                            January 2011



Denny Lindberg                  Occupation: Animator                                                    April 2010



Erik Lindgren                       Occupation: Game Artist



Hannu Kokkonen               Occupation: Concept Artist



Henrik Sonesson               Occupation: Developer                                               February 2011



Henrik Nystrom                Occupation: CEO & Founder



Joel Andersson                Occupation: Game Artist                                            February 2009



Markus Lovdell                 Occupation: Programmer/Game Artist                    unsure



Mats Persson                   Occupation: Creative Director



Patrik Jarlestam              Occupation: Composing Music

Albin Esbjornsson          AI programmer                                                March 2011

Andreas Springare           Level Designer                                              October 2010

Emil Jones                        Programmer

Fredrick Metcalf                  Developer

Heke                                     Business Developer

Henrik Ekholm                  Sound designer                                             October 2010

Maerlyn                                Community manager                                  March 2011

Pompeii                               Master of the game                                     unsure

Roger Lovgren                    Developer                                                      March 2011

Wiktor Ohman                     Developer

Interns: Henrik Yang, Kennie Nilsson, Niklas Wennersten, Pontus Almen

Anthony Morales               Lead animator/Technical Artist

Black opal ?                           Community manager

The original version of the list was made up in  October errr August I mean. The white names were from some "introducing the developers type thread  on the official forums.  I see no problem with using the term "new" as long as it's clear what I mean by that (i.e. anyone not on that original list)  If you have a better term, I'm open to suggestions (preferably something short) 

 

I'm just making the list to avoid the "They have like what ... 3 people that work there" posts

Slapshot1188

Originally posted by osmunda

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

You are listing people hired 3 years ago as "new hires"?  OK.. thats quite a stretch...how about new hires in the last 6 months? As far as I know that was one animator from 5 or 6 months back.(FYI Pompeii was let go awhile back as well)

 

 The original version of the list was made up in October. The white names were from some "introducing the developers type thread  on the official forums.  I see no problem with using the term "new" as long as it's clear what I mean by that (i.e. anyone not on that original list)  If you have a better term, I'm open to suggestions (preferably something short) 

 

I'm just making the list to avoid the "They have like what ... 3 people that work there" posts

 

1.  Yeah, use NEW to refer to new employees, not ones hired 3 years ago.  People hired in 2008 are are just regular employees in 2011.

 

2. They have lost 9 employees in 6 months.  Their staff was around 20 or so.  That's nearly 50% reduction.  So no, there aren't "3" employees (though I think there are only 2 programmers left), but they launched as a small developer and now they are close to 1/2 that size...

 

Edit to add: You show Black Opal as a new employee. D o you have some verification that he is an actual employee and not a volunteer?

cirsyndic

Originally posted by osmunda

The original version of the list was made up in  October errr August I mean. The white names were from some "introducing the developers type thread  on the official forums.  I see no problem with using the term "new" as long as it's clear what I mean by that (i.e. anyone not on that original list)  If you have a better term, I'm open to suggestions (preferably something short) 

 

I'm just making the list to avoid the "They have like what ... 3 people that work there" posts

Lets sum up your list:

Programmers/Developers: 4

Designers/Artists: 4

Sound: 1

CEO/Finance: 2

Total - 11 People.

So, out of the 11 people actually working at Starvault and being paid for it, 4 of those are actual coders/programmers.

Slapshot1188

Originally posted by cirsyndic

So, out of the 11 people actually working at Starvault and being paid for it, 4 of those are actual coders/programmers.

Actually I think  it's just 2.  I know Wiktor is an Artist as shown here: http://www.mortalonline.com/content/wiktor-raving-rabbits

 

Pretty sure it's just Sebastian and Emil left as programmers now, but maybe Fredrik Matcalf as well....

 

Of course I guess they could let the interns do some programming as well.  If you look at the LinkedIn profile of Roger Lovgren http://www.linkedin.com/in/rlovgren he says:

I was able to undertake my bachelor thesis together with Starvault AB, which yielded the highest possible grade. I implemented fully, the dynamic AI system described in the thesis report into Mortal Online.

 

I believe this explains much...

Comaf

Originally posted by cirsyndic

Sone: Beats me, dont work at SV anymore

Sone: Well... I believe the papers will say "Lack of work" if you look into it. I wont go into commenting any further than that.

Sone: Been more or less sick as a dog since I got let go so not feeling very well :P. but thatll pass. Thought Id get into the mobile games devving while waiting for a new job

Sone: thx . Im sad to see the community go tbh. Always was the best part of MO

Sone: hah! THen you shouldve seen the plans I had for crafting and flash . THAT wouldve made you cry. Now it wont happen

Sone: I left the office feb 28th

Sone: Tricksy question... Ive had tons of great times at SV. Fun work really. FUn but destructive. Too much work really.

I -snipped- out the non-relevant bits for easy viewing. Somehow I feel the poor guy was let go because of financial difficulties, what do you guys think?

 Not surprised.  Low quality products refuse to succeed.  You can't have everyone wearing the nearly same armor running around in a borked graphics engine with no political reality at other other than MO being the equivalent to gang bangers of the 12th century with some FPS magic tossed in so they can cosmetically call it "fantasy."

 

Utter trash.

Uhwop

A lot of the guys that worked for SV were never reaslly employees of SV, they were interns.