Just dont expect any twitch combat. Eve combat is mostly target enemy, activate weapons and shields/armor repair. Quite boring I would say. Even WoWs combat is more fun as atleast the skills there got some flavor to it.
I bet you died a lot if that's how you think you fly a ship in EVE.
hey as long as he is happy taking on things that barely shoot back, he's right
now if he actually tries to take on someone else well... we all know how that would have turned out.
Can't blame him, you'll get blobbed most of the time. Even for someone claimed to be a solo pvper, he would have a falcon/curse alt with him all the time.
Just dont expect any twitch combat. Eve combat is mostly target enemy, activate weapons and shields/armor repair. Quite boring I would say. Even WoWs combat is more fun as atleast the skills there got some flavor to it.
I bet you died a lot if that's how you think you fly a ship in EVE.
hey as long as he is happy taking on things that barely shoot back, he's right
now if he actually tries to take on someone else well... we all know how that would have turned out.
Can't blame him, you'll get blobbed most of the time. Even for someone claimed to be a solo pvper, he would have a falcon/curse alt with him all the time.
Even your answer contradicts his statement that the combat is completely simplistic, since there is a complex tactical aspect in persuading the other side that it is at an advantage. If you think it's easy, try it sometime.
"EVE PvP is a game of cat-and-mouse that usually only occurs when both sides think they're the cat"
Taking a break from Darkfall and have always said I would give Eve a serious shot if I wasn't playing Darkfall.
I feel that Eve is the space ying to Darkfall's fantasy yang.
For those who have been there, done that with Eve, got any advice?
Just dont expect any twitch combat. Eve combat is mostly target enemy, activate weapons and shields/armor repair. Quite boring I would say. Even WoWs combat is more fun as atleast the skills there got some flavor to it.
I bet you died a lot if that's how you think you fly a ship in EVE.
So you are saying that Eve combat IS twitch combat?
The point was that Darkfalls PvP combat is FPS "twitch" type where as Eve is target, point and click. Now that you condascending "leet" Eve pvpers know alot of advanced techniques using this kind of combat is irrelevant.
BTW OP, if you play Eve then get ready for alot of L2P comments like these. Eves community is probably one of the most elitists out there, even compared to Darkfall.
Eve isnt washed up. CCP continues to expand not only the game, but itself as a company. As others have mentioned in the thread, it has brought more people to what is a rather harsh game, but it is important to remember that part of CCPs success is their adherence to the vision of what EVE is all about.. player choice in a single shard universe. The day they add instances and do away with shiploss is the day this game will die. CCP has found very creative ways to intice non combative players to play what I believe is the ultimate PVP game. Also, if you look at their company website, they are what you call a "can do" mentality. They arent bound by the same sort of publishers we have uh, come to loath here in the fifty states
As for the combat, its hardly boring, unless you mean missions. PVP? PVP is a rush. EVE is more a strategy game than your standard MMO, and its not a twitch game. This is a game for those who like to plan, think, and then conqure. Its hard to relate to non EVE gamers the kind of excitment and adrenlaine rush you get in pvp fights, where your entire fleet is "on the line" and it comes down to teamwork/coordination for the diff between victory and defeat. I recently released one of my videos where I lead a fleet of 6 or so Battleships against 12 Battlecruisers in what ended up being quite a costly battle for both sides. Even though it was a small engagement in highsec, just listen to the voice comms, they arent the tone of boredom or meh face, they are on-edge, adranaline filled, perhaps even a little worried. My hands were shakin by the time that fight was done with, and it didn't help my nerves that I was the one commanding the fleet.
And while I personally think PVP in EVE is the only reason to play the game, 50% or so of the playerbase would disagree with me, according to the last QEN, in which found a large portion of the playerbase didnt actively participate in pvp. Suprising considering this games harsh death penetly and hardcore like nature.
Combat is point and click, sorry. There is a bit of a tactical aspect in determining proper orbit distance/speed (break out your calculators folks!) and some power management when it comes to tanking, but it really isn't very complex. In fact, I'd go so far as to say the actual combat is nearly an afterthought; it's how your ship is 'set up' that determines if you win the day. Sad but true.
Oh, and as far as 'washed up'... bear in mind that many, many players have multiple accounts. Why? Because if you want 2 characters to do different things (say, industry and fighting) you are pretty much required to pay for two accounts, because you can't train skills on more than one character at a time on the same one, making alt slots useless (seriously, why do they even BOTHER)? Multiboxing is allowed and encouraged as well.
Of course, when someone points out this blatant display of greed on CCP's part, or the fact that PLEX is in fact RMT, they get flamed to hell and back.
That being said, no, the game isn't washed up, although I do wish something would come along and knock it (and its elitist playerbase) down a peg or two.
7-years and EVE still boasts a more stable and larger subscribership than most mainstream mmorpg's in the past 6-years.
If that isn't enough-said, though the game might not be for me, or seemingly too complex for my attention-span, EVE still reigns as one of the most successful mmo's that is probably far from being washed-up.
Taking a break from Darkfall and have always said I would give Eve a serious shot if I wasn't playing Darkfall.
I feel that Eve is the space ying to Darkfall's fantasy yang.
For those who have been there, done that with Eve, got any advice?
Just dont expect any twitch combat. Eve combat is mostly target enemy, activate weapons and shields/armor repair. Quite boring I would say. Even WoWs combat is more fun as atleast the skills there got some flavor to it.
I bet you died a lot if that's how you think you fly a ship in EVE.
So you are saying that Eve combat IS twitch combat?
eve isnt dying, but it sure as hell isnt growing. at least not by much. CCP's current agenda is taking the game in the wrong direction. overall, most players are unhappy with the direction. they may not say it, but i think most of their resources is allocated to that Incarna bullshit. there hasnt been a combat-related update in at least a year. many ships are useless, Faction Warfare and Nullsec pvp are a joke - and the biggest thing on the drawing board are nebulas and new turret effects. lol, gtfo. i cancelled my sub for now.
Combat is point and click, sorry. There is a bit of a tactical aspect in determining proper orbit distance/speed (break out your calculators folks!) and some power management when it comes to tanking, but it really isn't very complex. In fact, I'd go so far as to say the actual combat is nearly an afterthought; it's how your ship is 'set up' that determines if you win the day. Sad but true.
Oh, and as far as 'washed up'... bear in mind that many, many players have multiple accounts. Why? Because if you want 2 characters to do different things (say, industry and fighting) you are pretty much required to pay for two accounts, because you can't train skills on more than one character at a time on the same one, making alt slots useless (seriously, why do they even BOTHER)? Multiboxing is allowed and encouraged as well.
Of course, when someone points out this blatant display of greed on CCP's part, or the fact that PLEX is in fact RMT, they get flamed to hell and back.
That being said, no, the game isn't washed up, although I do wish something would come along and knock it (and its elitist playerbase) down a peg or two.
I mean the entire notion of not being able to influence your SP gain is crap. It would be the equivalent if giving you XXX EXP/Hour in other MMORPGs and not being able to earn any exp.
It pretty much guarantees you to stay subbed for a long time if you want an advanced character. Either that or shell out houndreds of dollars in getting Gametime codes which you sell for IG currency and then buy an advanced character. Which is also completely legal in the game.
Add to this that it costs alot to replace advanced ships, which are easily lost in PvP, and you would see how CCP are reaking in the money from their Game Time Code -> PLEX conversion.
Eve is really designed to be one big money grab. And seeing that basically the only competition they have, in the form of space sci-fi MMORPGs, is that atrocious STO it is probably not going anywhere for a long time.
Taking a break from Darkfall and have always said I would give Eve a serious shot if I wasn't playing Darkfall.
I feel that Eve is the space ying to Darkfall's fantasy yang.
For those who have been there, done that with Eve, got any advice?
Just dont expect any twitch combat. Eve combat is mostly target enemy, activate weapons and shields/armor repair. Quite boring I would say. Even WoWs combat is more fun as atleast the skills there got some flavor to it.
I bet you died a lot if that's how you think you fly a ship in EVE.
So you are saying that Eve combat IS twitch combat?
The point was that Darkfalls PvP combat is FPS "twitch" type where as Eve is target, point and click. Now that you condascending "leet" Eve pvpers know alot of advanced techniques using this kind of combat is irrelevant.
BTW OP, if you play Eve then get ready for alot of L2P comments like these. Eves community is probably one of the most elitists out there, even compared to Darkfall.
I have posted this many times over and over and people like you never seem to get it but I will try one last time.
EVE is not twitch combat but PvP still requires accurate ship control, here's a list of some of things you need to stand a chance of surviving let alone winning.
Manual ship control by clicking in space (clicking approach and orbit will get you killed)
Situational awareness, you need to know who and what is around you and exactly what their ship is doing which means you need to know where its heading and how fast its going and who its attacking and what its attacking with.
Choosing the right tactics for the situation, choosing the wrong target or not paying attention to exactly whats happening on the field will get you killed.
Accurate handling of the ship, you need to minimise incoming damage and maximise outgoing and keep away from any ships or weapons that would cause problems (this ties in the first few things) you can only do this by manual piloting, get into scram range of that Proteus in a Vagabond and you are dead. You can only accurately fly your ship by manually piloting it (see first point)
Precise module management, you need to make sure all of your modules are doing exactly what needs to be done, capping yourself out or failing to overheat (or overheating to long) something at the correct time will get you killed.
Choosing the right ammo and Drones and generally making sure you are making the most of the weapons you available, not flying your ship right or not getting into the correct firing solution for will cause you to lose damage and at the same time you are trying to put your opponent out of position and hes trying to do the same to you, again this requires manual piloting (see first point)
These are just the basics of the actual flying of the ship and don't include all the other stuff like making sure your ship is a fit state to fight and all of the various pre and post fight aspects like baiting, intelligence gathering and scouting and everything else.
Sure you could say that on simple level you just target and shoot but you can simplify "twitch" gameplay into "you just put a cursor over something and press a button" and frankly to do both is just ever so slightly ridiculous because the only difference are some slight changes in game controls.
The skill of the player to have good reactions, be aware of whats going on and the use of brains as well as the ability to manipulate the controls remain the same.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
Taking a break from Darkfall and have always said I would give Eve a serious shot if I wasn't playing Darkfall.
I feel that Eve is the space ying to Darkfall's fantasy yang.
For those who have been there, done that with Eve, got any advice?
Just dont expect any twitch combat. Eve combat is mostly target enemy, activate weapons and shields/armor repair. Quite boring I would say. Even WoWs combat is more fun as atleast the skills there got some flavor to it.
I bet you died a lot if that's how you think you fly a ship in EVE.
So you are saying that Eve combat IS twitch combat?
The point was that Darkfalls PvP combat is FPS "twitch" type where as Eve is target, point and click. Now that you condascending "leet" Eve pvpers know alot of advanced techniques using this kind of combat is irrelevant.
BTW OP, if you play Eve then get ready for alot of L2P comments like these. Eves community is probably one of the most elitists out there, even compared to Darkfall.
I have posted this many times over and over and people like you never seem to get it but I will try one last time.
EVE is not twitch combat but PvP still requires accurate ship control, here's a list of some of things you need to stand a chance of surviving let alone winning.
Manual ship control by clicking in space (clicking approach and orbit will get you killed)
Situational awareness, you need to know who and what is around you and exactly what their ship is doing which means you need to know where its heading and how fast its going and who its attacking and what its attacking with.
Choosing the right tactics for the situation, choosing the wrong target or not paying attention to exactly whats happening on the field will get you killed.
Accurate handling of the ship, you need to minimise incoming damage and maximise outgoing and keep away from any ships or weapons that would cause problems (this ties in the first few things) you can only do this by manual piloting, get into scram range of that Proteus in a Vagabond and you are dead. You can only accurately fly your ship by manually piloting it (see first point)
Precise module management, you need to make sure all of your modules are doing exactly what needs to be done, capping yourself out or failing to overheat (or overheating to long) something at the correct time will get you killed.
Choosing the right ammo and Drones and generally making sure you are making the most of the weapons you available, not flying your ship right or not getting into the correct firing solution for will cause you to lose damage and at the same time you are trying to put your opponent out of position and hes trying to do the same to you, again this requires manual piloting (see first point)
These are just the basics of the actual flying of the ship and don't include all the other stuff like making sure your ship is a fit state to fight and all of the various pre and post fight aspects like baiting, intelligence gathering and scouting and everything else.
Sure you could say that on simple level you just target and shoot but you can simplify "twitch" gameplay into "you just put a cursor over something and press a button" and frankly to do both is just ever so slightly ridiculous because the only difference are some slight changes in game controls.
The skill of the player to have good reactions, be aware of whats going on and the use of brains as well as the ability to manipulate the controls remain the same.
Like I said I am sure there are advanced tactics for Eve but my point is that Eve IS a point and click (like you said yourself) and activating powers.
You dont actually fly your ship using WASD or a joystick, you point and (dbl) click.
You dont put your corshairs over your target and fire your weapons in real time. You target someone and then activate weapons which have their own firing rate.
This is fundamentally different from games like Darkfall which is aim and fire with no targetting involved.
Now I personally prefer target and use of abilities but I dont much fancy Eves limited ways of fighting. For example most ships are either made for ewar OR missiles OR lasers OR this or that. Which means that for any single ship you use the variation of attack is limited --> boring.
For example, very few ships are viable using lasers AND missiles/torpedoes. No ships are viable for shield tanking AND armor tanking and so on. This makes the number of ways to attack/defend, in any single ship, again limited and for me boring as basically all ships in Eve are highly specialised.
So it comes back around what is the difference in "twitch" gameplay when all you do is put cross hairs on a target and press a button? you can simplify any game down to the fundamentals of operation.
An example would be saying "chess sucks because all you do is slide little pieces of wood around" or break down a PnP RPG into "all you do is sit and and role dice for hours"
Its totally stupid to break every game down that way when you really need to judge it by what the goals, means and details are behind the fundamentals.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
Combat is point and click, sorry. There is a bit of a tactical aspect in determining proper orbit distance/speed (break out your calculators folks!) and some power management when it comes to tanking, but it really isn't very complex. In fact, I'd go so far as to say the actual combat is nearly an afterthought; it's how your ship is 'set up' that determines if you win the day. Sad but true.
Oh, and as far as 'washed up'... bear in mind that many, many players have multiple accounts. Why? Because if you want 2 characters to do different things (say, industry and fighting) you are pretty much required to pay for two accounts, because you can't train skills on more than one character at a time on the same one, making alt slots useless (seriously, why do they even BOTHER)? Multiboxing is allowed and encouraged as well.
Of course, when someone points out this blatant display of greed on CCP's part, or the fact that PLEX is in fact RMT, they get flamed to hell and back.
That being said, no, the game isn't washed up, although I do wish something would come along and knock it (and its elitist playerbase) down a peg or two.
I mean the entire notion of not being able to influence your SP gain is crap. It would be the equivalent if giving you XXX EXP/Hour in other MMORPGs and not being able to earn any exp.
It pretty much guarantees you to stay subbed for a long time if you want an advanced character. Either that or shell out houndreds of dollars in getting Gametime codes which you sell for IG currency and then buy an advanced character. Which is also completely legal in the game.
Add to this that it costs alot to replace advanced ships, which are easily lost in PvP, and you would see how CCP are reaking in the money from their Game Time Code -> PLEX conversion.
Eve is really designed to be one big money grab. And seeing that basically the only competition they have, in the form of space sci-fi MMORPGs, is that atrocious STO it is probably not going anywhere for a long time.
I would say this is as close to trolling as you can get. Not being able to influence your sp gain is FALSE. Plug in implants, remap your attributes...install implants in different jumpclones for different sp training....if you don't see why EvE has a time based xp gain to help you AVOID grinding, i'm not going to bother explaining it to you.
Subbing for a long time is a bad thing? If you don't like the game after a few weeks, you either aren't playing the game as intended(in a group) or you just might not like it. That's okay. If you don't like it, move on and play something else. Shelling out hundreds of dollars for ingame Codes?? In 5 years i have never purchased a plex so that is false. Is it an option? yes...is it necessary? No. PLEX was introduced to discourage RMT through 3rd party groups...which in turn led to keylogging, account stealing, etc. Is EvE getting more money? Yes..I don't care.
Paying to replace ships is bad? I thought that was called RISK or some cases...CONSEQUENCE. Are you flying T3 ships into lo sec while on autopilot? Have you scouted ahead? I want risk in my sandbox game...thus you are saying I have to sell PLEX for ingame money to replace them? Why can't I just build them myself, or buy them legimately off the market?
EvE is one big money grab? Yamota, I understand you don't care for the game, but this is blatant trolling. EvE doesn't have an ingame store to buy shiny's or faction items. You are forgetting something...having expensive items doesn't mean you are any good using them. This is the same lesson I teach all my rookies...they can't wait to get into a Raven(BS) or a Abaddon(BS) and they quickly lose them and cry about it.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die Hiatus: EvE Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh) Interested in: better games in general
Eve is definately not washed up or dieing. If anything their current user base is less likely to leave the longer they've been subscribed. The beauty of their skill system is it really fundamentally rewards the long-term subscriber. I played it years ago and even then I always felt like I was playing catchup to those who were on even before me. You can't just hop on and grind your way to the top in a couple weeks or even months like most MMOs, so if you unsubscribe you are setting yourself back literally FOREVER.
Also, graphics are a complete non-issue for EVE so it will never be osolete for that reason either. If anything I think they will run into trouble trying to maintain their single instance if subscribers continue to grow, at which point there will be a lot of unhappy players. But there is no indication they are near this point yet I don't think?
What I don't really understand with their recent success is how they continue to get new subscribers. I don't think I would consider resubbing even if I wanted to simply due to the several years behind I would be in my skills. Even if I took over with my previous character (assuming it still exists) it would be completely left in the dust by now as he stopped advancing years ago now...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Eve is definately not washed up or dieing. If anything their current user base is less likely to leave the longer they've been subscribed. The beauty of their skill system is it really fundamentally rewards the long-term subscriber. I played it years ago and even then I always felt like I was playing catchup to those who were on even before me. You can't just hop on and grind your way to the top in a couple weeks or even months like most MMOs, so if you unsubscribe you are setting yourself back literally FOREVER.
Also, graphics are a complete non-issue for EVE so it will never be osolete for that reason either. If anything I think they will run into trouble trying to maintain their single instance if subscribers continue to grow, at which point there will be a lot of unhappy players. But there is no indication they are near this point yet I don't think?
What I don't really understand with their recent success is how they continue to get new subscribers. I don't think I would consider resubbing even if I wanted to simply due to the several years behind I would be in my skills. Even if I took over with my previous character (assuming it still exists) it would be completely left in the dust by now as he stopped advancing years ago now...
nonsense. Resub or create anew. SP again is only a tool, like isk. If you want to train to do industry or combat, it is all obtainable. If you are thinking you can have 25 LvL V skills to be competitive, you are incorrect. You can be viable in PvP in a matter of days, if you are with COMPETENT players that teach you what you need to know...they aren't going to teach you how to fly an interdictor or Cap ships b/c you aren't trained for those.
You are not behind anyone. You just haven't unlocked certain ships or abilities yet. Not having maxed skills mean little when you fly in GROUPS. Learn from vets...no one solo's...it's a myth. I have solo'd some and I have lost far more than I have destroyed. Guess what? Who cares...b/c I learned some valuable lessons...like solo pirating in a domi is dumb...hahaha.
Feel free to come back and find some new friends..and make new opportunites for yourself. You won't win, but you will learn the secret that all of us vets know...nothing is better.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die Hiatus: EvE Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh) Interested in: better games in general
i have played eve since jan of 2007 and i think it just keeps getting better and better.
a lot of folks here have explained why but none of them have yet mentioned that, if you play eve, you get to be snobbish at theme park wow gamers
yes, guilty, guilty. when i played WoW as my theme park, some people in my guild wanted to go pvp, i told them that pvp doesnt exist in wow because there's no punishment for losing. they were like "itch you are such an eve snob" and it's true *snob*
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
You are not behind anyone. You just haven't unlocked certain ships or abilities yet. Not having maxed skills mean little when you fly in GROUPS. Learn from vets...no one solo's...it's a myth. I have solo'd some and I have lost far more than I have destroyed. Guess what? Who cares...b/c I learned some valuable lessons...like solo pirating in a domi is dumb...hahaha.
I don't doubt you can still have fun with it with a fresh sub these days: I know I did a few years ago despite people having been on for more than a year before me. But I disagree that you would "not be behind anybody." You most definately would be behind and catching up would be next to impossible within the first year if not the first two years.
I probably could still have some fun playing the lesser roles in corps for several months while working my way up, but that would be a tough pill to swallow especially since I had played a bunch already in the past and the early game wouldn't be novel anymore.
I do think EVE's skill model is a winning formula, as it is kind of annoying when you are a veteran in an MMO and a new player can catch up to you in a matter of weeks sometimes. But this system is a barrier to new players once the game has been established.
Now what would be interesting for them would be, if subs continue to climb, to create a new instance with no character transfers allowed. This would I bet bring in a lot of new blood. But I bet the established players would be up in arms over that...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Now what would be interesting for them would be, if subs continue to climb, to create a new instance with no character transfers allowed. This would I bet bring in a lot of new blood. But I bet the established players would be up in arms over that...
Nope the old blood would just start new characters and roll all the new players that think because they are on an equal SP lvl means they have a shot against someone that knows the game. And when it comes down to it your knowledge of the game is a far larger advantage then SP will ever be.
Now what would be interesting for them would be, if subs continue to climb, to create a new instance with no character transfers allowed. This would I bet bring in a lot of new blood. But I bet the established players would be up in arms over that...
Nope the old blood would just start new characters and roll all the new players that think because they are on an equal SP lvl means they have a shot against someone that knows the game. And when it comes down to it your knowledge of the game is a far larger advantage then SP will ever be.
Oh I have no doubt the veterans would join in and at least initially dominate, just like when any MMO creates a fresh server. They would have the advantage not only in understanding the game mechanics but the optimal skill paths to reach their objectives. Although, I wonder if the veterans would choose to start a fresh character if that mean skill advancement had to stop on their existing character while they played the new one?
But in any case I bet a lot of new subscribers would join, maybe even a 20-30% population increase, and some of them would rise to the top and run influencial corps alongside some of the grizzled veterans. I think it would be an interesting scenario for CCP to try if technology limitations forces them to a second instance anyway...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Now what would be interesting for them would be, if subs continue to climb, to create a new instance with no character transfers allowed. This would I bet bring in a lot of new blood. But I bet the established players would be up in arms over that...
Nope the old blood would just start new characters and roll all the new players that think because they are on an equal SP lvl means they have a shot against someone that knows the game. And when it comes down to it your knowledge of the game is a far larger advantage then SP will ever be.
Oh I have no doubt the veterans would join in and at least initially dominate, just like when any MMO creates a fresh server. They would have the advantage not only in understanding the game mechanics but the optimal skill paths to reach their objectives. Although, I wonder if the veterans would choose to start a fresh character if that mean skill advancement had to stop on their existing character while they played the new one?
But in any case I bet a lot of new subscribers would join, maybe even a 20-30% population increase, and some of them would rise to the top and run influencial corps alongside some of the grizzled veterans. I think it would be an interesting scenario for CCP to try if technology limitations forces them to a second instance anyway...
Well opening a second server would really kill what eve stands for, altohugh i think they have a own server for China, think chribba tried that out once and they recognized him hehe.
Anyway if they get to the brink of the tech i guess the way to go would be to enable training of all chars on your account and then get people to get their alts on that account to limit people having all 3 or so alts on at the same time, would actually help the servers a great deal i think.
Now what would be interesting for them would be, if subs continue to climb, to create a new instance with no character transfers allowed. This would I bet bring in a lot of new blood. But I bet the established players would be up in arms over that...
Nope the old blood would just start new characters and roll all the new players that think because they are on an equal SP lvl means they have a shot against someone that knows the game. And when it comes down to it your knowledge of the game is a far larger advantage then SP will ever be.
Oh I have no doubt the veterans would join in and at least initially dominate, just like when any MMO creates a fresh server. They would have the advantage not only in understanding the game mechanics but the optimal skill paths to reach their objectives. Although, I wonder if the veterans would choose to start a fresh character if that mean skill advancement had to stop on their existing character while they played the new one?
But in any case I bet a lot of new subscribers would join, maybe even a 20-30% population increase, and some of them would rise to the top and run influencial corps alongside some of the grizzled veterans. I think it would be an interesting scenario for CCP to try if technology limitations forces them to a second instance anyway...
Um, I've stopped skill training on one toon to advance another and I know I'm not alone in doing such a thing.
Different skills for different jobs.
The toon I'm advancing now will not train beyond a BC, if I even train it for BC, there's just no point going beyond that for what he's meant to do.
Ya'll need to get the idea that you need to of been there in the beginning to be competitive out of your head.
Comments
Can't blame him, you'll get blobbed most of the time. Even for someone claimed to be a solo pvper, he would have a falcon/curse alt with him all the time.
Even your answer contradicts his statement that the combat is completely simplistic, since there is a complex tactical aspect in persuading the other side that it is at an advantage. If you think it's easy, try it sometime.
"EVE PvP is a game of cat-and-mouse that usually only occurs when both sides think they're the cat"
Give me liberty or give me lasers
So you are saying that Eve combat IS twitch combat?
The point was that Darkfalls PvP combat is FPS "twitch" type where as Eve is target, point and click. Now that you condascending "leet" Eve pvpers know alot of advanced techniques using this kind of combat is irrelevant.
BTW OP, if you play Eve then get ready for alot of L2P comments like these. Eves community is probably one of the most elitists out there, even compared to Darkfall.
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Eve isnt washed up. CCP continues to expand not only the game, but itself as a company. As others have mentioned in the thread, it has brought more people to what is a rather harsh game, but it is important to remember that part of CCPs success is their adherence to the vision of what EVE is all about.. player choice in a single shard universe. The day they add instances and do away with shiploss is the day this game will die. CCP has found very creative ways to intice non combative players to play what I believe is the ultimate PVP game. Also, if you look at their company website, they are what you call a "can do" mentality. They arent bound by the same sort of publishers we have uh, come to loath here in the fifty states
As for the combat, its hardly boring, unless you mean missions. PVP? PVP is a rush. EVE is more a strategy game than your standard MMO, and its not a twitch game. This is a game for those who like to plan, think, and then conqure. Its hard to relate to non EVE gamers the kind of excitment and adrenlaine rush you get in pvp fights, where your entire fleet is "on the line" and it comes down to teamwork/coordination for the diff between victory and defeat. I recently released one of my videos where I lead a fleet of 6 or so Battleships against 12 Battlecruisers in what ended up being quite a costly battle for both sides. Even though it was a small engagement in highsec, just listen to the voice comms, they arent the tone of boredom or meh face, they are on-edge, adranaline filled, perhaps even a little worried. My hands were shakin by the time that fight was done with, and it didn't help my nerves that I was the one commanding the fleet.
And while I personally think PVP in EVE is the only reason to play the game, 50% or so of the playerbase would disagree with me, according to the last QEN, in which found a large portion of the playerbase didnt actively participate in pvp. Suprising considering this games harsh death penetly and hardcore like nature.
Combat is point and click, sorry. There is a bit of a tactical aspect in determining proper orbit distance/speed (break out your calculators folks!) and some power management when it comes to tanking, but it really isn't very complex. In fact, I'd go so far as to say the actual combat is nearly an afterthought; it's how your ship is 'set up' that determines if you win the day. Sad but true.
Oh, and as far as 'washed up'... bear in mind that many, many players have multiple accounts. Why? Because if you want 2 characters to do different things (say, industry and fighting) you are pretty much required to pay for two accounts, because you can't train skills on more than one character at a time on the same one, making alt slots useless (seriously, why do they even BOTHER)? Multiboxing is allowed and encouraged as well.
Of course, when someone points out this blatant display of greed on CCP's part, or the fact that PLEX is in fact RMT, they get flamed to hell and back.
That being said, no, the game isn't washed up, although I do wish something would come along and knock it (and its elitist playerbase) down a peg or two.
7-years and EVE still boasts a more stable and larger subscribership than most mainstream mmorpg's in the past 6-years.
If that isn't enough-said, though the game might not be for me, or seemingly too complex for my attention-span, EVE still reigns as one of the most successful mmo's that is probably far from being washed-up.
Nope, that's not what he was saying.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Eve is dying!
Every year since 2004.
Oh Noes!
F2P/P2P excellent thread.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/282517/F2P-An-Engineers-perspective.html
eve isnt dying, but it sure as hell isnt growing. at least not by much. CCP's current agenda is taking the game in the wrong direction. overall, most players are unhappy with the direction. they may not say it, but i think most of their resources is allocated to that Incarna bullshit. there hasnt been a combat-related update in at least a year. many ships are useless, Faction Warfare and Nullsec pvp are a joke - and the biggest thing on the drawing board are nebulas and new turret effects. lol, gtfo. i cancelled my sub for now.
i see you have gotten the same memo.....
THE END IS NIGH!
I mean the entire notion of not being able to influence your SP gain is crap. It would be the equivalent if giving you XXX EXP/Hour in other MMORPGs and not being able to earn any exp.
It pretty much guarantees you to stay subbed for a long time if you want an advanced character. Either that or shell out houndreds of dollars in getting Gametime codes which you sell for IG currency and then buy an advanced character. Which is also completely legal in the game.
Add to this that it costs alot to replace advanced ships, which are easily lost in PvP, and you would see how CCP are reaking in the money from their Game Time Code -> PLEX conversion.
Eve is really designed to be one big money grab. And seeing that basically the only competition they have, in the form of space sci-fi MMORPGs, is that atrocious STO it is probably not going anywhere for a long time.
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I have posted this many times over and over and people like you never seem to get it but I will try one last time.
EVE is not twitch combat but PvP still requires accurate ship control, here's a list of some of things you need to stand a chance of surviving let alone winning.
Manual ship control by clicking in space (clicking approach and orbit will get you killed)
Situational awareness, you need to know who and what is around you and exactly what their ship is doing which means you need to know where its heading and how fast its going and who its attacking and what its attacking with.
Choosing the right tactics for the situation, choosing the wrong target or not paying attention to exactly whats happening on the field will get you killed.
Accurate handling of the ship, you need to minimise incoming damage and maximise outgoing and keep away from any ships or weapons that would cause problems (this ties in the first few things) you can only do this by manual piloting, get into scram range of that Proteus in a Vagabond and you are dead. You can only accurately fly your ship by manually piloting it (see first point)
Precise module management, you need to make sure all of your modules are doing exactly what needs to be done, capping yourself out or failing to overheat (or overheating to long) something at the correct time will get you killed.
Choosing the right ammo and Drones and generally making sure you are making the most of the weapons you available, not flying your ship right or not getting into the correct firing solution for will cause you to lose damage and at the same time you are trying to put your opponent out of position and hes trying to do the same to you, again this requires manual piloting (see first point)
These are just the basics of the actual flying of the ship and don't include all the other stuff like making sure your ship is a fit state to fight and all of the various pre and post fight aspects like baiting, intelligence gathering and scouting and everything else.
Sure you could say that on simple level you just target and shoot but you can simplify "twitch" gameplay into "you just put a cursor over something and press a button" and frankly to do both is just ever so slightly ridiculous because the only difference are some slight changes in game controls.
The skill of the player to have good reactions, be aware of whats going on and the use of brains as well as the ability to manipulate the controls remain the same.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
Like I said I am sure there are advanced tactics for Eve but my point is that Eve IS a point and click (like you said yourself) and activating powers.
You dont actually fly your ship using WASD or a joystick, you point and (dbl) click.
You dont put your corshairs over your target and fire your weapons in real time. You target someone and then activate weapons which have their own firing rate.
This is fundamentally different from games like Darkfall which is aim and fire with no targetting involved.
Now I personally prefer target and use of abilities but I dont much fancy Eves limited ways of fighting. For example most ships are either made for ewar OR missiles OR lasers OR this or that. Which means that for any single ship you use the variation of attack is limited --> boring.
For example, very few ships are viable using lasers AND missiles/torpedoes. No ships are viable for shield tanking AND armor tanking and so on. This makes the number of ways to attack/defend, in any single ship, again limited and for me boring as basically all ships in Eve are highly specialised.
My gaming blog
So it comes back around what is the difference in "twitch" gameplay when all you do is put cross hairs on a target and press a button? you can simplify any game down to the fundamentals of operation.
An example would be saying "chess sucks because all you do is slide little pieces of wood around" or break down a PnP RPG into "all you do is sit and and role dice for hours"
Its totally stupid to break every game down that way when you really need to judge it by what the goals, means and details are behind the fundamentals.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
I would say this is as close to trolling as you can get. Not being able to influence your sp gain is FALSE. Plug in implants, remap your attributes...install implants in different jumpclones for different sp training....if you don't see why EvE has a time based xp gain to help you AVOID grinding, i'm not going to bother explaining it to you.
Subbing for a long time is a bad thing? If you don't like the game after a few weeks, you either aren't playing the game as intended(in a group) or you just might not like it. That's okay. If you don't like it, move on and play something else. Shelling out hundreds of dollars for ingame Codes?? In 5 years i have never purchased a plex so that is false. Is it an option? yes...is it necessary? No. PLEX was introduced to discourage RMT through 3rd party groups...which in turn led to keylogging, account stealing, etc. Is EvE getting more money? Yes..I don't care.
Paying to replace ships is bad? I thought that was called RISK or some cases...CONSEQUENCE. Are you flying T3 ships into lo sec while on autopilot? Have you scouted ahead? I want risk in my sandbox game...thus you are saying I have to sell PLEX for ingame money to replace them? Why can't I just build them myself, or buy them legimately off the market?
EvE is one big money grab? Yamota, I understand you don't care for the game, but this is blatant trolling. EvE doesn't have an ingame store to buy shiny's or faction items. You are forgetting something...having expensive items doesn't mean you are any good using them. This is the same lesson I teach all my rookies...they can't wait to get into a Raven(BS) or a Abaddon(BS) and they quickly lose them and cry about it.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: better games in general
Eve is definately not washed up or dieing. If anything their current user base is less likely to leave the longer they've been subscribed. The beauty of their skill system is it really fundamentally rewards the long-term subscriber. I played it years ago and even then I always felt like I was playing catchup to those who were on even before me. You can't just hop on and grind your way to the top in a couple weeks or even months like most MMOs, so if you unsubscribe you are setting yourself back literally FOREVER.
Also, graphics are a complete non-issue for EVE so it will never be osolete for that reason either. If anything I think they will run into trouble trying to maintain their single instance if subscribers continue to grow, at which point there will be a lot of unhappy players. But there is no indication they are near this point yet I don't think?
What I don't really understand with their recent success is how they continue to get new subscribers. I don't think I would consider resubbing even if I wanted to simply due to the several years behind I would be in my skills. Even if I took over with my previous character (assuming it still exists) it would be completely left in the dust by now as he stopped advancing years ago now...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
nonsense. Resub or create anew. SP again is only a tool, like isk. If you want to train to do industry or combat, it is all obtainable. If you are thinking you can have 25 LvL V skills to be competitive, you are incorrect. You can be viable in PvP in a matter of days, if you are with COMPETENT players that teach you what you need to know...they aren't going to teach you how to fly an interdictor or Cap ships b/c you aren't trained for those.
You are not behind anyone. You just haven't unlocked certain ships or abilities yet. Not having maxed skills mean little when you fly in GROUPS. Learn from vets...no one solo's...it's a myth. I have solo'd some and I have lost far more than I have destroyed. Guess what? Who cares...b/c I learned some valuable lessons...like solo pirating in a domi is dumb...hahaha.
Feel free to come back and find some new friends..and make new opportunites for yourself. You won't win, but you will learn the secret that all of us vets know...nothing is better.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: better games in general
EVE needs dynamic space combat dogfighting-style, definitely.
Also, they need to get rid of offline progression altogether, this was a bad idea to start with.
i have played eve since jan of 2007 and i think it just keeps getting better and better.
a lot of folks here have explained why but none of them have yet mentioned that, if you play eve, you get to be snobbish at theme park wow gamers
yes, guilty, guilty. when i played WoW as my theme park, some people in my guild wanted to go pvp, i told them that pvp doesnt exist in wow because there's no punishment for losing. they were like "itch you are such an eve snob" and it's true *snob*
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
I don't doubt you can still have fun with it with a fresh sub these days: I know I did a few years ago despite people having been on for more than a year before me. But I disagree that you would "not be behind anybody." You most definately would be behind and catching up would be next to impossible within the first year if not the first two years.
I probably could still have some fun playing the lesser roles in corps for several months while working my way up, but that would be a tough pill to swallow especially since I had played a bunch already in the past and the early game wouldn't be novel anymore.
I do think EVE's skill model is a winning formula, as it is kind of annoying when you are a veteran in an MMO and a new player can catch up to you in a matter of weeks sometimes. But this system is a barrier to new players once the game has been established.
Now what would be interesting for them would be, if subs continue to climb, to create a new instance with no character transfers allowed. This would I bet bring in a lot of new blood. But I bet the established players would be up in arms over that...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
A better question would be is Darkfall washed up.
##Best SWTOR of 2011
Posted by I_Return - SWTOR - "Forget the UI the characters and all ofhe nitpicking bullshit" "Greatest MMO Ever Created"
##Fail Thread Title of 2011
Originally posted by daveospice
"this game looks like crap?"
Nope the old blood would just start new characters and roll all the new players that think because they are on an equal SP lvl means they have a shot against someone that knows the game. And when it comes down to it your knowledge of the game is a far larger advantage then SP will ever be.
Oh I have no doubt the veterans would join in and at least initially dominate, just like when any MMO creates a fresh server. They would have the advantage not only in understanding the game mechanics but the optimal skill paths to reach their objectives. Although, I wonder if the veterans would choose to start a fresh character if that mean skill advancement had to stop on their existing character while they played the new one?
But in any case I bet a lot of new subscribers would join, maybe even a 20-30% population increase, and some of them would rise to the top and run influencial corps alongside some of the grizzled veterans. I think it would be an interesting scenario for CCP to try if technology limitations forces them to a second instance anyway...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Well opening a second server would really kill what eve stands for, altohugh i think they have a own server for China, think chribba tried that out once and they recognized him hehe.
Anyway if they get to the brink of the tech i guess the way to go would be to enable training of all chars on your account and then get people to get their alts on that account to limit people having all 3 or so alts on at the same time, would actually help the servers a great deal i think.
Um, I've stopped skill training on one toon to advance another and I know I'm not alone in doing such a thing.
Different skills for different jobs.
The toon I'm advancing now will not train beyond a BC, if I even train it for BC, there's just no point going beyond that for what he's meant to do.
Ya'll need to get the idea that you need to of been there in the beginning to be competitive out of your head.