In all honesty though...this post is what reminds me of why i just cant get into WoW anymore. I played at launch and actually loved the game...until it got as popular as it ultimately ended up today. The majority of its player base, i legitimately almost believe, thinks WoW is the first MMO, and that everyone copied from it. Absolutely clueless...all WoW did was dumb the genre down to allow these types of players to feel like a veteran on this type of game. Easy mode doesnt always mean fun. Mindless yes...but not fun.
Currently Playing : Rift, EQ2 Has Played: Anarchy Online, SWG(Pre NGE refugee), DAoC, EQ1, EQ2, Lineage 2, CoH, CoV, Horizons, AoC, FFXI, FFXIV, Aion, WoW, DCUO, Matrix Online, Vanguard, Tabula Rasa, LotRo, Fallen Earth, Shadowbane, EQoA, ArchLord
It's the same reason people bash mircrosoft, or whatever else is popular and in atm. If WoW wasn't as big as it was people wouldn't be bashing it as much, it's normal and just a part of how people are.
When another game comes along that outdoes WoW it too will receive the same bashing, eventually, as long as things stay as they are.
Because WoW and unrealistic stuff are two of the most hated things on these forums. Most people I know don't care about WoWs graphics, its just this site that brings it up, and FPS people, but they don't count because they bash all MMO graphics.
"Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events, and small minds talk about people." - Eleanor Roosevelt "Americans used to roar like lions for liberty; now we bleat like sheep for security." -Norman Vincent Peale
Because graphics are very much like art, entirely subjective. WoW looks "cartoony" to many of us; from pastel colors to floppy elf ears it was all just a little bit too much like a cartoon novel to me. It was mostly well done and consistent; I've never bashed them for having bad graphics, but I do not like what they have.
PS Pretty much everyones' animations have problems on some level; either limb proportions, how they move or how they fight. Arguing that one is better than another is just as subjective as the artwork angle...they all have flaws it's just a matter of which ones bother you more.
I see WoW bashers constantly targeting WoW's graphics with insults such as it being Cartoony and such bad graphics.
But why do these same people not put any efforts into bashing DAoC and EQ1's graphics as well?
Damn, WoW may not have the best Grpahics, but at least they make up for it in Animations.
EQ1 and DAoC have both bad Graphics and Bad Animations.
Because both of those games are older (and look better), and don't have the stupid looking animations WoW has.
You missed the point completely.
the point is, People still play these older games, they also have had plenty of time to update their graphics (same excuse people say about WoW), but yet they still look worst than WoW, and they also have worst Animations.
Hey lets look at some MMORPGs with nice Animations, and then lets take a look at the trade offs. 2 mmo come to mind.
*AoC
*Aion
Aoc has load screen zoneing, and instanced zoned servers
Aion uses a Auto Follow Combat system. otherwise theose fancy animations would have an even greater slug onto the combat polish. hey the game already has queued melee system.
I see WoW bashers constantly targeting WoW's graphics with insults such as it being Cartoony and such bad graphics.
But why do these same people not put any efforts into bashing DAoC and EQ1's graphics as well?
Damn, WoW may not have the best Grpahics, but at least they make up for it in Animations.
EQ1 and DAoC have both bad Graphics and Bad Animations.
Because both of those games are older (and look better), and don't have the stupid looking animations WoW has.
You missed the point completely.
the point is, People still play these older games, they also have had plenty of time to update their graphics (same excuse people say about WoW), but yet they still look worst than WoW, and they also have worst Animations.
Hey lets look at some MMORPGs with nice Animations, and then lets take a look at the trade offs. 2 mmo come to mind.
*AoC
*Aion
Aoc has load screen zoneing, and instanced zoned servers
Aion uses a Auto Follow Combat system. otherwise theose fancy animations would have an even greater slug onto the combat polish. hey the game already has queued melee system.
You miss the point completely yourself. ( on purpose?)
The games are much, much older, giving them an excuse to have worse graphics. They have also made less money, giving the devs less money to use on updating the graphics.
Funny, DAoC post graphics upgrade has some of the best looking armor and weapon models in any MMO I've seen.
You're comparing games that are 4+ years older than the latter and ones that had far less of a budget; Warcraft's art and graphics are just absolutely terrible.
Vanguard was an MMO that reached for the graphical stars. Today it stands as a warning to others.
Not so much because of the graphics, but because of the bug fest it was at launch, oh and a warning to not let your former boss by up your game after a bad launch...
I see WoW bashers constantly targeting WoW's graphics with insults such as it being Cartoony and such bad graphics.
But why do these same people not put any efforts into bashing DAoC and EQ1's graphics as well?
Damn, WoW may not have the best Grpahics, but at least they make up for it in Animations.
EQ1 and DAoC have both bad Graphics and Bad Animations.
Because both of those games are older (and look better), and don't have the stupid looking animations WoW has.
You missed the point completely.
the point is, People still play these older games, they also have had plenty of time to update their graphics (same excuse people say about WoW), but yet they still look worst than WoW, and they also have worst Animations.
Hey lets look at some MMORPGs with nice Animations, and then lets take a look at the trade offs. 2 mmo come to mind.
*AoC
*Aion
Aoc has load screen zoneing, and instanced zoned servers
Aion uses a Auto Follow Combat system. otherwise theose fancy animations would have an even greater slug onto the combat polish. hey the game already has queued melee system.
Still on the defense of WoW with each thread you create? Well, nothing wrong with that, but it's a bit silly when you just plain ignore the valid arguments that most people here have mentioned.
1. You were talking about graphics, not animation. As you surmised correctly, most of the complaints people have are about WoW's graphics, not the animation, so let's keep the discussion pure and focused about the graphics.
2. It's silly to compare WoW with EQ and DAoC, those games are 5 years before WoW. In the same line people don't find it strange that the newest MMO's have better graphics than WoW, it just made them realise the difference in graphics such a difference in years causes.
3. Of course the graphics style was chosen because of being able to create a large, seamless world that's relatively lagfree. We were talking about the graphics here, not the motivations behind it. It makes you sound as if you're making excuses for the graphics and being subjective, not at all interested in hearing about why people dislike WoW's graphics.
4. Personally I think WoW's graphics are ok for its age and within its cartoony approach, they can be quite rich and beautiful. If people have problems with WoW's graphics, then it's because of their choice for cartoony stylism and that it starts to look outdated compared with the newer MMO's. GW and EQ2, who don't have a cartoony graphical style, you hear a lot less complaints about the graphics, neither about LotrO's graphics, although yes, you do hear complaints where it's justified, namely about LotrO's and EQ2's character models.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
MMOExposed you really do post the biggest piles of rubbish on this website..
DAOC and EQ are years before WoW's time, think before you post, you expected those games to pull out of the bag graphics that look like AoC back in the late 90s?
WoW's graphics are cartoony, and they handle well on many systems and are stylized, designed to age well, yea that people line them up against DAoC and EQ at all says so much about WoW really. Match WoW up against Eve, or against city of heroes, not up against games that where over 5 years older than them.
Thats like ripping on golden eye because it doesn't look like halflife 2.
I see WoW bashers constantly targeting WoW's graphics with insults such as it being Cartoony and such bad graphics.
But why do these same people not put any efforts into bashing DAoC and EQ1's graphics as well?
Damn, WoW may not have the best Grpahics, but at least they make up for it in Animations.
EQ1 and DAoC have both bad Graphics and Bad Animations.
Have you been living under a rock for past 10years or realy dunno how mmo gaming worlds looks like and whats on market?
Why would gamers in past few years complain about games that where made 9 and 11 years ago knowing back then most engine for those games just could not produce better graphical gameworlds then few years later.
When WoW was launch many who complain about graphics and cartoony style knew already game like Asherons call 2 who was released in 2002 but looked gorgious and beautifull, so many complained why WoW have such terible grahipcs.
If you compare graphics of a cartoon game with realistic game its bit silly and dumb but thats what trolls and whiners love bash down gamers beloved game so they can enjoy your crying and suffering.
But WoW looks bad and cartoonys child game thats fact, still just my opinion about WoW, but still 12million seems to love it so why your so upset by all of this is BEYOND ME?
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Because I would rather hold my breathe until I'm dead than actually believe there was any intelligence required to make Wow. I will say that, I would prefer EQ's 99 graphics to WoW's disgusting cartoony graphics. I felt like at any moment bugs bunny would pop out and offer me a quest. I am not a graphics snob, but in now way would I ever acknowledge WoW's graphics as anything but annoying.
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
Because noone plays EQ1 or Daoc anymore, so they're irrelevant.
/end thread
You are absolutely the most disgusting uninformed MMO player that may have ever lived. As much as I love this genre and am willing to explore new things, EQ and DAOC are two of the most amazing games that were ever created....
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
Because noone plays EQ1 or Daoc anymore, so they're irrelevant.
/end thread
You are absolutely the most disgusting uninformed MMO player that may have ever lived. As much as I love this genre and am willing to explore new things, EQ and DAOC are two of the most amazing games that were ever created....
While i agree that EQ an DAOC were and are great games, graphics wise the cant hold a candle to WoW.
But the people that play EQ and DAOC dont play it for the graphics they play to be immersed in a mmo.
Which EQ and DAOC do very well.
The following statement is false The previous statement is true
I love how so many people see cartoony graphics and think oh its that way to appeal to the kids...Bullfuckingshit. Stylised art styles are the safest way to make sure that youre game looks good longer. Realistic graphics age faster. Half-Life at the time of release was amazing. Now it looks like shit. Outlaws looked good back in 1997 and it still looks fine now becouse it has style.
I was listening to some tennis commentary not long ago (Ozzy Open?) and the commentator mentioned how it was great the game had players like Nadal (Pirate I'm guessing was implied) and Monfils (He actually said like a bit cartoon character!) as these guys really appealed to the kids... and why not I might add? They are cool cats.
It's not an issue that wow's cartoony style almost certainly follows a similar design intention or product appeal to a younger audience ie kids. It's just that for some, wanting a more mature art style to be immersed in, that is a game-breaker for being involved. Instead of a hard-edged world you have a cartoon of bumbling, cute chars perhaps?
You're right stylization is the answer to graphics aging well (AND just as importantly being low enough spec to be played on many different low-high end computers).
In fact, Pocket Legends Mobile MMO uses cartoony toons with bloated big heads and I love the style for that MMO. Toons were chosen (Eagle, Bear, Elf-Queen) because human faces resolution just would not work on the mobile's limited screen real estate and hardware; secondly they are appealing to a younger crowd is safe to say and thirdly a mobile mmo has the impression of not taking itself too seriously eg little teddy-bears bashing the sh*t out of each other fits the whole style of playing in short bursts. Obviously big heads are important on avatars that measure less than 0.5cm on our screen!
The point is cartoony graphics have worked incredibly well for WoW, irrespective of anyone's personal opinions as an art style and can do so in other mmos also.
Comments
Haha...brilliant.
Currently Playing : Rift, EQ2
Has Played: Anarchy Online, SWG(Pre NGE refugee), DAoC, EQ1, EQ2, Lineage 2, CoH, CoV, Horizons, AoC, FFXI, FFXIV, Aion, WoW, DCUO, Matrix Online, Vanguard, Tabula Rasa, LotRo, Fallen Earth, Shadowbane, EQoA, ArchLord
In all honesty though...this post is what reminds me of why i just cant get into WoW anymore. I played at launch and actually loved the game...until it got as popular as it ultimately ended up today. The majority of its player base, i legitimately almost believe, thinks WoW is the first MMO, and that everyone copied from it. Absolutely clueless...all WoW did was dumb the genre down to allow these types of players to feel like a veteran on this type of game. Easy mode doesnt always mean fun. Mindless yes...but not fun.
Currently Playing : Rift, EQ2
Has Played: Anarchy Online, SWG(Pre NGE refugee), DAoC, EQ1, EQ2, Lineage 2, CoH, CoV, Horizons, AoC, FFXI, FFXIV, Aion, WoW, DCUO, Matrix Online, Vanguard, Tabula Rasa, LotRo, Fallen Earth, Shadowbane, EQoA, ArchLord
Because both of those games are older (and look better), and don't have the stupid looking animations WoW has.
It's the same reason people bash mircrosoft, or whatever else is popular and in atm. If WoW wasn't as big as it was people wouldn't be bashing it as much, it's normal and just a part of how people are.
When another game comes along that outdoes WoW it too will receive the same bashing, eventually, as long as things stay as they are.
Because WoW and unrealistic stuff are two of the most hated things on these forums. Most people I know don't care about WoWs graphics, its just this site that brings it up, and FPS people, but they don't count because they bash all MMO graphics.
"Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events, and small minds talk about people." - Eleanor Roosevelt
"Americans used to roar like lions for liberty; now we bleat like sheep for security." -Norman Vincent Peale
Because graphics are very much like art, entirely subjective. WoW looks "cartoony" to many of us; from pastel colors to floppy elf ears it was all just a little bit too much like a cartoon novel to me. It was mostly well done and consistent; I've never bashed them for having bad graphics, but I do not like what they have.
PS Pretty much everyones' animations have problems on some level; either limb proportions, how they move or how they fight. Arguing that one is better than another is just as subjective as the artwork angle...they all have flaws it's just a matter of which ones bother you more.
it is when your the one starting the fight with the fat kid then complain he sucks cause he beat ya up and took your money
I challenged my reflection to a staring contest....4 days later i won
people just need something, anything, to bitch about
You missed the point completely.
the point is, People still play these older games, they also have had plenty of time to update their graphics (same excuse people say about WoW), but yet they still look worst than WoW, and they also have worst Animations.
Hey lets look at some MMORPGs with nice Animations, and then lets take a look at the trade offs. 2 mmo come to mind.
*AoC
*Aion
Aoc has load screen zoneing, and instanced zoned servers
Aion uses a Auto Follow Combat system. otherwise theose fancy animations would have an even greater slug onto the combat polish. hey the game already has queued melee system.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
You miss the point completely yourself. ( on purpose?)
The games are much, much older, giving them an excuse to have worse graphics. They have also made less money, giving the devs less money to use on updating the graphics.
And. most importantly, WoW's graphics suck.
Funny, DAoC post graphics upgrade has some of the best looking armor and weapon models in any MMO I've seen.
You're comparing games that are 4+ years older than the latter and ones that had far less of a budget; Warcraft's art and graphics are just absolutely terrible.
^^^ This
Vanguard was an MMO that reached for the graphical stars. Today it stands as a warning to others.
Not so much because of the graphics, but because of the bug fest it was at launch, oh and a warning to not let your former boss by up your game after a bad launch...
Still on the defense of WoW with each thread you create? Well, nothing wrong with that, but it's a bit silly when you just plain ignore the valid arguments that most people here have mentioned.
1. You were talking about graphics, not animation. As you surmised correctly, most of the complaints people have are about WoW's graphics, not the animation, so let's keep the discussion pure and focused about the graphics.
2. It's silly to compare WoW with EQ and DAoC, those games are 5 years before WoW. In the same line people don't find it strange that the newest MMO's have better graphics than WoW, it just made them realise the difference in graphics such a difference in years causes.
3. Of course the graphics style was chosen because of being able to create a large, seamless world that's relatively lagfree. We were talking about the graphics here, not the motivations behind it. It makes you sound as if you're making excuses for the graphics and being subjective, not at all interested in hearing about why people dislike WoW's graphics.
4. Personally I think WoW's graphics are ok for its age and within its cartoony approach, they can be quite rich and beautiful. If people have problems with WoW's graphics, then it's because of their choice for cartoony stylism and that it starts to look outdated compared with the newer MMO's. GW and EQ2, who don't have a cartoony graphical style, you hear a lot less complaints about the graphics, neither about LotrO's graphics, although yes, you do hear complaints where it's justified, namely about LotrO's and EQ2's character models.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
MMOExposed you really do post the biggest piles of rubbish on this website..
DAOC and EQ are years before WoW's time, think before you post, you expected those games to pull out of the bag graphics that look like AoC back in the late 90s?
WoW's graphics are cartoony, and they handle well on many systems and are stylized, designed to age well, yea that people line them up against DAoC and EQ at all says so much about WoW really. Match WoW up against Eve, or against city of heroes, not up against games that where over 5 years older than them.
Thats like ripping on golden eye because it doesn't look like halflife 2.
moron..
Haha...made my night.
Currently Playing : Rift, EQ2
Has Played: Anarchy Online, SWG(Pre NGE refugee), DAoC, EQ1, EQ2, Lineage 2, CoH, CoV, Horizons, AoC, FFXI, FFXIV, Aion, WoW, DCUO, Matrix Online, Vanguard, Tabula Rasa, LotRo, Fallen Earth, Shadowbane, EQoA, ArchLord
I hope this is an April Fool's thread.
The funny thing is, DAOC's graphics are actually better than WOW's even though its much older.
Hard, edged and realistic vs soft, round and cartoonish.
Trammies need to stop polluting the MMORPG landscape. They already have enough games in which to emote hugs and sell garbage by the banks.
Because noone plays EQ1 or Daoc anymore, so they're irrelevant.
/end thread
Wrong Answer
/continue thread
<img src='http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000031cd29/signature.png'></img>;
Have you been living under a rock for past 10years or realy dunno how mmo gaming worlds looks like and whats on market?
Why would gamers in past few years complain about games that where made 9 and 11 years ago knowing back then most engine for those games just could not produce better graphical gameworlds then few years later.
When WoW was launch many who complain about graphics and cartoony style knew already game like Asherons call 2 who was released in 2002 but looked gorgious and beautifull, so many complained why WoW have such terible grahipcs.
If you compare graphics of a cartoon game with realistic game its bit silly and dumb but thats what trolls and whiners love bash down gamers beloved game so they can enjoy your crying and suffering.
But WoW looks bad and cartoonys child game thats fact, still just my opinion about WoW, but still 12million seems to love it so why your so upset by all of this is BEYOND ME?
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Because I would rather hold my breathe until I'm dead than actually believe there was any intelligence required to make Wow. I will say that, I would prefer EQ's 99 graphics to WoW's disgusting cartoony graphics. I felt like at any moment bugs bunny would pop out and offer me a quest. I am not a graphics snob, but in now way would I ever acknowledge WoW's graphics as anything but annoying.
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
You are absolutely the most disgusting uninformed MMO player that may have ever lived. As much as I love this genre and am willing to explore new things, EQ and DAOC are two of the most amazing games that were ever created....
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
While i agree that EQ an DAOC were and are great games, graphics wise the cant hold a candle to WoW.
But the people that play EQ and DAOC dont play it for the graphics they play to be immersed in a mmo.
Which EQ and DAOC do very well.
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
I was listening to some tennis commentary not long ago (Ozzy Open?) and the commentator mentioned how it was great the game had players like Nadal (Pirate I'm guessing was implied) and Monfils (He actually said like a bit cartoon character!) as these guys really appealed to the kids... and why not I might add? They are cool cats.
It's not an issue that wow's cartoony style almost certainly follows a similar design intention or product appeal to a younger audience ie kids. It's just that for some, wanting a more mature art style to be immersed in, that is a game-breaker for being involved. Instead of a hard-edged world you have a cartoon of bumbling, cute chars perhaps?
You're right stylization is the answer to graphics aging well (AND just as importantly being low enough spec to be played on many different low-high end computers).
In fact, Pocket Legends Mobile MMO uses cartoony toons with bloated big heads and I love the style for that MMO. Toons were chosen (Eagle, Bear, Elf-Queen) because human faces resolution just would not work on the mobile's limited screen real estate and hardware; secondly they are appealing to a younger crowd is safe to say and thirdly a mobile mmo has the impression of not taking itself too seriously eg little teddy-bears bashing the sh*t out of each other fits the whole style of playing in short bursts. Obviously big heads are important on avatars that measure less than 0.5cm on our screen!
The point is cartoony graphics have worked incredibly well for WoW, irrespective of anyone's personal opinions as an art style and can do so in other mmos also.
But no accounting for taste, eh?!
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem