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Who here has went to college for a computer programming degree?
Emergence
Member Posts: 888
I am curious as to who here has been through the experience of attending college for a computer programming degree (or a similar degree with programming or computers as the focus)
I have heard endless horror stories from those I know who have successfully graduated from such programs. It seems as though they all say the same thing: it is shocking, to say the least.
One graduate said that there were computer programmers in the final few classes (advanced classes full of soon-to-be graduates) where there were students who didn't even know how to turn their computers on. Another graduate from a different country laughed and said that is how it was in their school. There are people who graduate with their degrees who still don't know how to turn on their computer by themselves without needing help.
I have been told by MANY graduates of such programs that everything they teach you in a computer programming (2 to 4 year degrees) can be learned simply by studying hard for 2 weeks. This means that someone learning hardcore for 2 weeks can catch up to a graduate. That is how poor the education actually is in these fields.
Do you have similar, or opposite findings while obtaining your degree in computer science or programming? I have not yet met a programmer who attended school for their degree which did not have an absolutely wild story to tell about how incompetant some of their peers were, even during the few weeks before that peer graduates, during more advanced classes. I will not even mention all of the English majors who graduate unable to differentiate between they're, their, and there.
The scariest part? These "graduates" actually land jobs in major software companies. It makes you wonder when a company like SOE fires its employees while keeping their mentally-challenged higher-ups, if those they fired were the talented ones while the employees who get to stay are the "graduates" who most likely achieved the same level of success in college as the brains leading SOE, who most likely needed to raise his hand to ask what's wrong with his computer when it booted up saying "To start, press any key." Well... where's the ANY key??!?!?! Teacher help!!! Oh wait... *grabs a paper cup and holds it below the floppy drive* I'll order a Tab. Oh no! No time for that, the computer is starting!
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Comments
I work int he IT industry and to see my fellow professionals be clueless on how to work their company computer baffles me. It's like come on guys, it's just Windows XP. You're freaking DBAs and Devs, how do you not know how to work Windows XP.
"If you're going to act like a noob, I'll treat you like one." -Caskio
Adventurers wear fancy pants!!!
I remember asking a COX (cable/internet provider) how many unique IP's I am allowed to have from the company.
He said I am allowed up to 255 IP addresses. (Coincidentally, that's a number commonly found in routers!)
I immediately facepalmed and decided any further questions might explode his brain. Later when I moved to a new house, I asked the seemingly more-competant employee and he told me "up to 8" which is what I have heard before.
The first guy, I just wanted to yell at him "GET....OUT...OF MY APARTMENT!!!!!!!! I will do it myself!!!" but instead thanked him and wished him well.
The second guy, I respected and was grateful for his education and lack of stupidity, and I thanked him for not being an idiot and told him of the first guy who told me 255. We both laughed at him. Great experience the second time. Horrid one the first.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
I attended a college and received a BS in Computer Science. This was a very good college and all of the material was relative. You could not have learned these things in "2 weeks of hard studying". There are not any people who do not know how to turn on a computer. Degrees vary depending on the school and the course you are doing.
Yeah that was boring so I stopped going to classes and had to pay 20 grad for a year of school that was worthless....
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i say you got trolled real hard about turning computers on part, 2 weeks part is nonsense too, but in general you can learn all that at home, and usually you do.. since they either teach you useless shit half the time, or just do it terribly
im majoring in comp sci right now (switched from chem engineering) so far its been good. None of the stuff you stated in the post seems true at least for my school
I study at Czech technical university
study program: Cybernetics and Robotics
..lot of programming and it sure aint easy, most students here are free-time IT programmers or geeks and the subjects are very hard:)) I guess it depends on the school you went to:)
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
There are clueless people in every trade. The IT industry is no exception.
I'm currently following a 5 year program for ICT ( 3 years bachelor and 2 years master ) and I can definitely say that it's not something you can learn in 2 weeks.
I've been following it for about 8 months now and so far we've done:
Basics of C++ programming ( granted this can be learned in 2 weeks. )
Basics of Java programming and general OO programming.
Discreet Mathematics
Vector and Matrix maths.
CPU components ( transistors, gates, ALUs, assembly etc. )
Propositional and Predicate Logic.
Introduction in basic AI ( searching decision trees and stuff like that )
Design and create Android Applications
And tons more stuff that I can't really sum up.
The basic coding part can be learned in 2 weeks of hard studying. But ICT studies aren't about coding. They're not even about computers. They're about logic, information and alghorithms. The most famous people coming along in our lectures are from the time where there were like 5 computers on the entire planet and they took up entire classrooms, people like Alan Turing and John von Neumann. Or even before the first computer was made, people like Charles Babbage.
Turning your computer on is something you should know but it's not something taught by an ICT study. You could learn everything there is to know about ICT without ever touching a computer. You'd spent entire rainforests on scratch paper to test out all your alghorithms ( wonder how much paper you'd need to represent 8gb of ram... ), transistor designs etc. but it could be done.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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Yep, amazes me how they keep getting jobs, but you see these degree-hoppers a lot. Suppose you have to though since you're only able to fool people for so long.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I study software engineering at a university in Denmark. It is basically the same as studying computer science, and we share most courses with the computer science department as well. I'm currently half way through my bachelor and I can promise you that we're given more or less the exact amount of time that's needed to learn the course material (which means for most people they have to study a lot at home as well), and most of it is complex mathematics that most people would prefer attending courses to learn. You can learn anything from home regardless of the complexity, but I wouldn't say that any of the stuff we've learned so far is something one would usually learn by oneself, and for sure you can't learn teamwork by sitting home alone studying course material.
Of course, I can't say how it is at US universities, but I would imagine it wouldn't be much different. My honest guess is your source of information is full of crap, cause there's no way in the hell one would be able to complete any course at my university while having problems navigating a computer. You could probably make it through the first semester since you're not forced to be there at all so nobody would check up on you anyway, but that won't help you pass your exams.
I also attended a college and received a BS in Computer Science. As it was a competitive college to get into, just about everyone was competant in something (though not necessarily what they majored in).
I haven't seen anyone who didn't know how to turn on their computers but as a paid tutor and teacher's assistant, I have seen people who were clueless about the programming classes they were attending. Fortunately, their primary major wasn't Computer Science so it was forgivable.
I think topics in the first year or two of CS can be learned by studying hard in 2 weeks if the student is a quick learner. This includes topics such as a programming language or 2, computer fundamentals, data structures, basic algorithms, etc. However, advanced topcis taught in years 3 to 4 such as computer vision and natural language processing will definitely require more than 2 weeks.
I've attended a local community college for programming. I'd say that you could get all the course work of the few years I was there done in a few months. Then again it's not like the course work is the most valuable part, I'd say access to instructors was. Followed by the forced pacing that a school puts you through, if you study by yourself you won't focus on the annoying unfun parts and will have gaps.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
I am 12 non-Major or Minor hours shy of completing my BS in CS and I don't go to a prestigious school or anything of the sort, but everyone under the Computer Science Department is very good at what they do. Pretty much everyone has their own strengths and weeknesses, when it comes to CS. Computer Science is an extremely broad subject that covers a massive amount of material. Yes, you can learn it all at home, but I could learn to be a Physicist at home too. Being that it's Computer Science and the fact that pretty much everything can be found online, just makes it easier, it doesn't make it different than anything else.
There is no way you could learn even a fraction of what I've learned in the course of my degree in 2 weeks. Even if I attempted it, I assure you that I would skip major parts of the course that are really what make a programmer a programmer. Such as Algorithm Analysis and Complexities. Sure, you get a good basic understanding of that sort of material just working on projects, but not to the extent you do in structured coursework. I can hammer a nail into a piece of wood pretty damn well, but don't ask me to build you a house.
There are idiots anywhere you go. But, you could be the best programmer in the world and not know how to turn on a computer. As long as you understand how it works, the theory behind how the hardware is utilized and the contraints, it doesn't matter.
A Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science will absolutely not teach you a damn thing to get Certifications in:
A+, N+, Security+, CISCO, Microsoft Exchange Server, Microsoft Server 2003, Solaris
I know this for a fact, because I hold all those certifications as well. I took accelerated classes and was certified in all of that in less than 8 weeks (along with quite a few other certs that are irrelevant). I could not do any of that for a living, because it's all mindless boring work. I would probably rather dig ditches for living, because at least that way I'll get a sun tan while doing my job.
I'm not sure if you know this, but it should be common knowledge. Albert Einstein couldn't even tie his own shoes and frequently forgot where he lived and how to get home.
Edit:
Also, I forgot to mention. Knowing syntax does not make you a programmer. That makes you a code monkey. I would rather hire an Indian or someone from China for pennies on the dollar, than pay you ten times as much to do the same work. I know how the basic syntax to communicate in the English language, but that doesn't make me a writer and nobody is going to hire me to be a writer. The same can be said for people with techincal degrees in "programming".
Companies in the US are going to hire people with Computer Science Degrees or Computer Engineering Degrees. If they need any other work done in coding, they will outsource. Go ahead and look around at Software Development jobs if you want. You will be hard pressed to find a single one that will take anyone with anything less than a BS in CS or CE or 5+yrs of professional experience.
Also, contrary to popular belief, this is actually not very common. If you go to school for CS, you really don't have to worry about the Indians or Chinese taking your job.
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LoL...kindof funny :P
If some people say others had no idea what they were doing and the work could be learned in very little time comparetively, and the "others" say the opposite and that it is difficult and couldn't possibly be learned in 2 weeks, it's kindof funny :P at least for me it is, lol. (It means there's a possibility that those here MIGHT be a part of the "can't turn on their computer" crowd, lol.)
Just kidding though. Things might have changed in the last few years, or even the last decade. Much has changed indeed. Also, many here seem to be talking about different fields (robotics, for instance) which is a bit different than what I was referring to.
I'm actually quite surprised there are no stories of the "incompetents" in the class, which to me only means it might be any one of you :P lol jk. But there has GOT to be a few, in ANY program that is simply for an associates or bachelors. If you can't spot them, I'd question myself, seriously. I'm sure it does have to do with what school you are in as well, as each one will be different in quality of education...however...from what I've been told by multiple professionals, it is quite strange no one here besides one IT worker even admits there are people who get degrees in computer science without knowing how to even use a computer correctly. (such as Windows XP).
The big kicker is that I don't know of two professionals who told me their stories and peer reviewing who went to the same school. The last two I've talked to, one is from the US and went to a prestigious school while the other is from Australia. Quite strange that it would be a common occurence in different countries, which leaves me to believe this happens EVERYWHERE, not just in the US and UK where the majority of professionals I know reside.
Perhaps I'm asking the wrong people here though. I do know one professional graduate who said although there were some dumb people in his class, all the incompetent ones dropped the first semester, so there weren't any incompetents left at the end.
Did any of you see that in your program?
That the starting class of a degree in computer programming is quite large, and the graduating class being extremely small in comparison? I have heard the majority of students drop out and decide it's not what they wanted. A much higher rate than is normal for the usual college degree switch-a-roo.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
I edited the OP and title to reflect a clear definition of the field of study I am referring to.
Indeed Computer Science is a broad subject which can result in many different specialized skill sets. Of course, I was referring to Computer Programming and specifically Computer Science degrees which related to Computer Programming.
I wanted to make this clear.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
I severely doubt it. Sounds like lies which ignorant people believe to sound smart.
Pics or it didn't happen.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Yep!
Strange though that some people here claim there are no clueless people in their school.
What do you think is the explanation for this? I have a conclusion, but I think it would be considered flaming so I won't say.
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Ofcourse there are a few exceptions.
But think of the following, you're walking through a big city. It's extremely busy. You've been walking for about an hour and have probably seen around a thousand people. One of them was not wearing any clothes at all.
Which of the thousand people you saw are you going to remember? Which one are you going to tell your friends about?
From all the people both you and your friends saw on the street that day, which one are they all going to tell their friends about?
From all the people you, your friends and their friends saw on the street that day, which one are they all going to, in turn, tell their friends about?
etc.
Every country most likely has a single university where there's a single computer science student who doesn't know how to turn his computer on. This story then gets passed on and on and on and on and on precisely because it's such an unique thing.
Likely the student in question learned 10 years ago to turn his computer on. During all that time people have been passing that story around as their own or a friends'.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
Well, I did know a guy who knew less general information about computers graduating with a BIS Degree, than I did in high school. (and most other CS students) But, he makes $80k/yr after only 2yrs in a low income part of the south, working on unix servers for one of the largest companies in the world (not an IT company). He got the job knowing absolutely nothing about unix systems or any of the commands. He actually makes more than another guy, from the same school, who got his MBA after a BIS degree and works for one of the largest IT companies in the world!
I would help him (the dumb guy) all the time with his job interviews and the questions they asked him. (after the fact of course) I remember him asking me questions like "What is PHP?" and "What is a FSB?" and of course the inevitable "What is a linked list?" and more technical questions like that, along with other stupid high school level questions. Which even the linked list question is pretty sad, because most of that should be basic knowledge for anyone in the programming world. It's common knowledge of anyone who's learned basic data structures.... which he got a C in.
Now that guy is pretty much a complete expert in what he does, after only 2yrs. I still talk to him and I doubt he would be able to build a desktop.
But that's kinda what I meant about everyone has their strengths and weakenesses. We honeslty don't have any complete retards in our Computer Science Department, because the coursework is just challenging. I can't see any retards making it passed Data Structures, without the professor just giving them a grade. Data Structures is notoriously hard and is what makes many people leave Computer Science throughout the country. SOME CS coursework is not easy stuff to grasp, even if you've got the mind for IT and electronics.
(A Business Information Systems (BIS) Degree isn't Computer Science, but at my school they only need 1 less Computer Science class than Computer Science Majors and they replace all their mandantory Math with Business classes. Other than that, it's exactly the same. )
However, Foundations to Computer Science (or w/e the school in question calls it), is a requirement for any sort of Math Majors. Straight Math Majors and w/e the Math Major for Teachers is called, as well as being an choice for Phy Majors. These are the first 2 classes in Computer Science. Most Computer Science majors drop out in Data Structures, which is the first class after the 2 Foundations.
Also, with a Computer Science degree, you can potentially get pretty much any job in the IT Industry you want, short of things that absolutely 100% require a PhD in something. That's what I mean by it being a very broad subject. It doesn't cover just programming. I'd say that a quarter of the core classes, have absolutely nothing to do with programming and probably another quater have any actual coding work in it. That leaves half of the coursework focused around theory and other things. (It's hard to explain in lemens)
Edit:
Sorry if this may not flow right. I was distracted when I wrote it and had to go back and edit it a few times. lol I think I caught everything, but sometimes I read things the way I meant them, instead of the way I wrote them.
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I am currently enrolled within a Technical facility for Computer Programming and Analysis.
To be frank, these generalization are spread amongst each profession; Programming is no exception. I have noticed something separate, though. Many of the students lack necessary social skills required for progress.
Ex: There is a student who cannot work a pair of window blinds, cannot speak in-class without showing physical signs of pain, but can program circles around me.
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