More realism, a bad idea? Not really, not enough MMOs attempt to create a realistic magic system. It is most certainly possible and if done properly would be a huge blast!
"Realistic magic system"... Wow, that made me laugh!
Why? As I posted above I'll ask you the same question.
Yes, a "realistic" magic system, do you understand what that means? Or not?
More realism, a bad idea? Not really, not enough MMOs attempt to create a realistic magic system. It is most certainly possible and if done properly would be a huge blast!
"Realistic magic system"... Wow, that made me laugh!
Why? As I posted above I'll ask you the same question.
Yes, a "realistic" magic system, do you understand what that means? Or not?
It would have been more helpful for you to explain your ideas, instead of double posting asking if they know what you mean, when clearly they have no idea.
More realism, a bad idea? Not really, not enough MMOs attempt to create a realistic magic system. It is most certainly possible and if done properly would be a huge blast!
I think you are confusing realism with believabilty.
We don't want the mundane realism of our lives in our games - you don't want to have to unclog your virtual toilet before you go on a raid and have to leave early to go pick up your virtual kids.....that's reality....
It seems like a lot of people are misunderstanding the author's intent and many are misusing the word 'real'. Magic isn't real. Neither are fantasy worlds. But they can be believable.
I think you're confusing real life with realistic fantasy actually... and whether magic is real or not is a debatable topic.
Real Life magic is not what I posted. A realistic "Magic System" is what I posted, kind of like realistic "Combat System" or realistic "Mystery" or realistic "Flying mounts" etc..etc..
I'll explain because obviously too many people read into these posts rather then run with them and use their imagination. When on a flying mount it would be "more" fun if the mechanics were "realistic" such as when I'm flying downward I go "faster", when I fly upward I go "slower". Aha! There you go! Realism.
Why? As I posted above I'll ask you the same question.
Yes, a "realistic" magic system, do you understand what that means? Or not?
LOL.
I would enjoy to have you help me understand what "realistic" magic is.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
More realism, a bad idea? Not really, not enough MMOs attempt to create a realistic magic system. It is most certainly possible and if done properly would be a huge blast!
"Realistic magic system"... Wow, that made me laugh!
Why? As I posted above I'll ask you the same question.
Yes, a "realistic" magic system, do you understand what that means? Or not?
It would have been more helpful for you to explain your ideas, instead of double posting asking if they know what you mean, when clearly they have no idea.
Battlefield 2142 had (maybe still, I don't know) ingame advertisement. Granted it's not an mmo but it wasn't a free game either. So yeah EA has already done it and I am sure it will come to mmo's.
Originally posted by Morv Why? As I posted above I'll ask you the same question.
Yes, a "realistic" magic system, do you understand what that means? Or not?
LOL. I would enjoy to have you help me understand what "realistic" magic is.
Me too. The most magical thing I've ever seen that actually worked was someone reading Tarot Cards and I can't be sure that wasn't just chance or some kind of con. You could go with Voodoo curses as well, but nobody wants to wait a week or two to see if their curse took out the Bank Guard...who was immediately replaced by the other bank guards since the one you cursed called in sick. It would be easier to wait until night and chloroform the guard rather than try and curse them out of the way.
The bottom line is that as soon as you create a game you're throwing most of your realistic mechanics out the window, including things involving gravity, mass and energy. Just the fact that your character runs for many hours, for many miles constantly, while engaging in active combat (sometimes constantly) is ridiculous. No organic creature can do that. Even if the energy is supplied externally, all the internal systems would burn out. The very baseline mechanic of most games is not realistic, but it's believable in the context of the game.
I think what the OP is getting at isn't necessarily "realistic" mechanics, but "believable" mechanics - you can suspend your disbelief. Think Movie Physics. It's thought out enough for you to agree to believe it. No, it doesn't make realistic sense that guns have unlimited bullets, but you suspend disbelief because it's enjoyable and makes sense within the context of the movie or game you're playing. It doesn't make sense that people can make fireballs that don't immediately kill almost anything they touch by both consuming the oxygen and burning the lungs of anything they hit, but it makes sense in the context of the movie or game where the fireball is happening.
I'm not sure the OP is talking about the same "realism" that the article referenced.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
that pic of snow white barefoot and saddled with the screaming snot spawn of a beer guzzling prince charming is just about the best pic i've seen this year.
Techno mages you could use them to make magic more real but you would have to make them more advanced than the normal people of the world there living in.
a match seems magic to a man rubbing sticks togeather.
I agree I think the ops realism is more extreme, there needs to be a balance however disregarding realism as a whole is not the answer. Suspending disbelief is important. As an example watch the trailer for Deus ex 2 human revolution.
So we accept mediocrity on the basis that games don't do terrible things, instead doing things that are just bad? This opinion is completely filled with fail.
P.S. You happened to choose things that probably will be implemented into video games in the future. Facebook more and more will be integrated with these things. I guarantee there will be forms of in-game ads, even if they aren't as blatant necessarily as commercials, and people clamour for things like realism all the time. Second Life is based entirely on realism.
Realism - meh whatever. It is just an added dimension to the game. Hell mmo's are a bit more like RL than gaming anyway with how much actual moronic work you have to do to be successful, ie gathering, crafting, adn playing the idiot auction house while trying to get a handle on an economy that never ceases printing money.
Pay by the Hour - here is why I say you haven't been around very long seeing as how the first mmo's were all Pay by the hour. Do some research if you don't have the firsthand knowledge, k? Thanks. (GEnie, AOL etc)
Commercial Breaks - Sorry, but have you even played an mmo? They are nothing but advertisements for this that and everything else for sale from the mmo shop. Log in, go talk to a quest giver, and it reminds you of the pet for sale or that the quest you want is available from the store etc etc.
Anonymity - meh, whatever, not like it wouldn't be hard to fake your identity online anyway. Neither a bad nor a good depending on the game and the people that you play with. For the most part, if ya ain't got nothing to hide ya ain't got nothin to worry bout.
Facebook - Again, guess you aren't very current on your mmo nonsense are ya? Every new game is, in some way, tied to idiot facebook and the narcisists that reside there. And every mouthbreather developer out there is looking for ways to make the interaction more, not better not worse, just MORE. Because more might mean more money for the publisher while annoying everyone they possibly can, plus what is better for hte company? Spending millions on an idiot tv advert, or, get the people paying you to play to shoulder the burden of marketing as well?
Lotro has become pay 2 win with the latest update, you can buy items that directly improve your combat skill (Legendary scrolls, instruments, potions that have sep cool downs from normal potions, stat increases).
Really? Crap, i just finished to reinstall it (i'm a premium player) but i will unistall it soon. I like play, not use credit card on itm shop. I will migrate on worst Allod's Online, it's horrible but i like that game *_*
Only if it was cheaper then paying monthly subscriptions and we only had to pay for what we played instead of 15 bucks a month then fine it would be ok, but i doubt it could be cheaper then current subscriptions.
Ironicaly Bill, if you go far enough back...Online gaming DID start with a pay-per-hour model.... at least that was my introduction to it. Gemstone 3 on Genie service...$3 per hour..Premium Service. I remember dreading those bills.
I think alot of the other early services.... Prodigy, Compuserve, AOL, etc had similar structures for many of the games they offered.
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2 Ironicaly Bill, if you go far enough back...Online gaming DID start with a pay-per-hour model.... at least that was my introduction to it. Gemstone 3 on Genie service...$3 per hour..Premium Service. I remember dreading those bills.I think alot of the other early services.... Prodigy, Compuserve, AOL, etc had similar structures for many of the games they offered.
The AOL one was a D&D game of some sort and it was $8 an hour to play.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
More realism, a bad idea? Not really, not enough MMOs attempt to create a realistic magic system. It is most certainly possible and if done properly would be a huge blast!
I think you are confusing realism with believabilty.
We don't want the mundane realism of our lives in our games - you don't want to have to unclog your virtual toilet before you go on a raid and have to leave early to go pick up your virtual kids.....that's reality....
It seems like a lot of people are misunderstanding the author's intent and many are misusing the word 'real'. Magic isn't real. Neither are fantasy worlds. But they can be believable.
It is quite obvious that the person you quoted was talking about a believable magic system.
There is no use for a discussion about semantics here. But if you really want to, 'realistic magic' doesnt have to be an oxymoron. Because magic doesnt exist in real life, doesnt mean it cant be realisticly represented in a virtual world.
Within the context of the virtual world, magic can be real. Its only virtual or not real when you look at it from outside the virtual world. So what you call believable, can also be called realistic from within a virtual world's perspective
It is quite obvious he was talking about believabilty. It is also quite obvious that the article was about reality and not believability. So therefore it should be obvious that the poster misread and/or misinterpreted the article as he contridicted the article saying the author got it all wrong.
Therefore I believe pointing out semantics in this instance are valid as he and the author weren't talking about the same 'reality'.
All of that said, it was not just this poster but several others claiming the author was 'wrong' about reality, when in fact they were 'wrong' about what he was saying.
More realism, a bad idea? Not really, not enough MMOs attempt to create a realistic magic system. It is most certainly possible and if done properly would be a huge blast!
"Realistic magic system"... Wow, that made me laugh!
Why? As I posted above I'll ask you the same question.
Yes, a "realistic" magic system, do you understand what that means? Or not?
It would have been more helpful for you to explain your ideas, instead of double posting asking if they know what you mean, when clearly they have no idea.
So are you sure 'reality' is the word you want - you've had to explain this several times - I still say 'believabilty' rather than 'realism' would provide more clarity. Sometimes semantics do matter.
Actually the advertisement thing has already been done: in Acclaims "9 Dragons" (i don't even know if it is still up and running) everytime you logged in, and about every half an hour, an unclosable ad would pop up in the top of the screen and it would stay there for like 10 secs. Kind of a nuisance at first, but after some time, meh.
Playing: Starcraft II. Played: Tibia, Ragnarok Online, Ultima Online, Guild Wars, World of Warcraft. Wanna play: Guild Wars 2, SW:TOR, Final Fantasy XIV, Diablo III.
More realism, a bad idea? Not really, not enough MMOs attempt to create a realistic magic system. It is most certainly possible and if done properly would be a huge blast!
"Realistic magic system"... Wow, that made me laugh!
Why? As I posted above I'll ask you the same question.
Yes, a "realistic" magic system, do you understand what that means? Or not?
It would have been more helpful for you to explain your ideas, instead of double posting asking if they know what you mean, when clearly they have no idea.
So are you sure 'reality' is the word you want - you've had to explain this several times - I still say 'believabilty' rather than 'realism' would provide more clarity. Sometimes semantics do matter.
Pulling rabbits from our hats and turning flowers into pigeons are as realistic a "magic" could get, if he wants to stick to the word.
Anyway, which "realistic magic system" are we referring to here? The kind that Tolkien depicts, or the ones by JK Rowling? There's more authors to list, really...
Not been around the industry very long have you. Have you?
Realism - meh whatever. It is just an added dimension to the game. Hell mmo's are a bit more like RL than gaming anyway with how much actual moronic work you have to do to be successful, ie gathering, crafting, adn playing the idiot auction house while trying to get a handle on an economy that never ceases printing money. Where did he say MMO's weren't realistic? Oh that's right! he didn't, he said they could be MORE realistic.
Pay by the Hour - here is why I say you haven't been around very long seeing as how the first mmo's were all Pay by the hour. Do some research if you don't have the firsthand knowledge, k? Thanks. (GEnie, AOL etc) Ok...? His knowledge of previous payment models is irrelavant. Paying by the hour would be much more expensive. Not sure what your point is here.
Commercial Breaks - Sorry, but have you even played an mmo? They are nothing but advertisements for this that and everything else for sale from the mmo shop. Log in, go talk to a quest giver, and it reminds you of the pet for sale or that the quest you want is available from the store etc etc. Advertising an item for the game you're playing is a bit different than a commercial for potato chips between bosses bud.
Anonymity - meh, whatever, not like it wouldn't be hard to fake your identity online anyway. Neither a bad nor a good depending on the game and the people that you play with. For the most part, if ya ain't got nothing to hide ya ain't got nothin to worry bout. Nothing to say here.
Facebook - Again, guess you aren't very current on your mmo nonsense are ya? Every new game is, in some way, tied to idiot facebook and the narcisists that reside there. And every mouthbreather developer out there is looking for ways to make the interaction more, not better not worse, just MORE. Because more might mean more money for the publisher while annoying everyone they possibly can, plus what is better for hte company? Spending millions on an idiot tv advert, or, get the people paying you to play to shoulder the burden of marketing as well? HAHA! Having a Facebook page for your MMO is quite different than giving players the ability to pester their friends to help them with this or that. No where near the same thing.
Seriously, did you even read the article? And you wonder why MMO's are going downhill....
Comments
Why? As I posted above I'll ask you the same question.
Yes, a "realistic" magic system, do you understand what that means? Or not?
It would have been more helpful for you to explain your ideas, instead of double posting asking if they know what you mean, when clearly they have no idea.
I think you're confusing real life with realistic fantasy actually... and whether magic is real or not is a debatable topic.
Real Life magic is not what I posted. A realistic "Magic System" is what I posted, kind of like realistic "Combat System" or realistic "Mystery" or realistic "Flying mounts" etc..etc..
I'll explain because obviously too many people read into these posts rather then run with them and use their imagination. When on a flying mount it would be "more" fun if the mechanics were "realistic" such as when I'm flying downward I go "faster", when I fly upward I go "slower". Aha! There you go! Realism.
LOL.
I would enjoy to have you help me understand what "realistic" magic is.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I agree, it would have been.
Battlefield 2142 had (maybe still, I don't know) ingame advertisement. Granted it's not an mmo but it wasn't a free game either. So yeah EA has already done it and I am sure it will come to mmo's.
I posted above yours there I hope it helps!
Me too. The most magical thing I've ever seen that actually worked was someone reading Tarot Cards and I can't be sure that wasn't just chance or some kind of con. You could go with Voodoo curses as well, but nobody wants to wait a week or two to see if their curse took out the Bank Guard...who was immediately replaced by the other bank guards since the one you cursed called in sick. It would be easier to wait until night and chloroform the guard rather than try and curse them out of the way.
The bottom line is that as soon as you create a game you're throwing most of your realistic mechanics out the window, including things involving gravity, mass and energy. Just the fact that your character runs for many hours, for many miles constantly, while engaging in active combat (sometimes constantly) is ridiculous. No organic creature can do that. Even if the energy is supplied externally, all the internal systems would burn out. The very baseline mechanic of most games is not realistic, but it's believable in the context of the game.
I think what the OP is getting at isn't necessarily "realistic" mechanics, but "believable" mechanics - you can suspend your disbelief. Think Movie Physics. It's thought out enough for you to agree to believe it. No, it doesn't make realistic sense that guns have unlimited bullets, but you suspend disbelief because it's enjoyable and makes sense within the context of the movie or game you're playing. It doesn't make sense that people can make fireballs that don't immediately kill almost anything they touch by both consuming the oxygen and burning the lungs of anything they hit, but it makes sense in the context of the movie or game where the fireball is happening.
I'm not sure the OP is talking about the same "realism" that the article referenced.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
that pic of snow white barefoot and saddled with the screaming snot spawn of a beer guzzling prince charming is just about the best pic i've seen this year.
Techno mages you could use them to make magic more real but you would have to make them more advanced than the normal people of the world there living in.
a match seems magic to a man rubbing sticks togeather.
So we accept mediocrity on the basis that games don't do terrible things, instead doing things that are just bad? This opinion is completely filled with fail.
P.S. You happened to choose things that probably will be implemented into video games in the future. Facebook more and more will be integrated with these things. I guarantee there will be forms of in-game ads, even if they aren't as blatant necessarily as commercials, and people clamour for things like realism all the time. Second Life is based entirely on realism.
Not been around the industry very long have you.
Realism - meh whatever. It is just an added dimension to the game. Hell mmo's are a bit more like RL than gaming anyway with how much actual moronic work you have to do to be successful, ie gathering, crafting, adn playing the idiot auction house while trying to get a handle on an economy that never ceases printing money.
Pay by the Hour - here is why I say you haven't been around very long seeing as how the first mmo's were all Pay by the hour. Do some research if you don't have the firsthand knowledge, k? Thanks.
(GEnie, AOL etc)
Commercial Breaks - Sorry, but have you even played an mmo? They are nothing but advertisements for this that and everything else for sale from the mmo shop. Log in, go talk to a quest giver, and it reminds you of the pet for sale or that the quest you want is available from the store etc etc.
Anonymity - meh, whatever, not like it wouldn't be hard to fake your identity online anyway. Neither a bad nor a good depending on the game and the people that you play with. For the most part, if ya ain't got nothing to hide ya ain't got nothin to worry bout.
Facebook - Again, guess you aren't very current on your mmo nonsense are ya?
Every new game is, in some way, tied to idiot facebook and the narcisists that reside there. And every mouthbreather developer out there is looking for ways to make the interaction more, not better not worse, just MORE. Because more might mean more money for the publisher while annoying everyone they possibly can, plus what is better for hte company? Spending millions on an idiot tv advert, or, get the people paying you to play to shoulder the burden of marketing as well?
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
Really? Crap, i just finished to reinstall it (i'm a premium player) but i will unistall it soon. I like play, not use credit card on itm shop. I will migrate on worst Allod's Online, it's horrible but i like that game *_*
My blog about (no more)MMORPG Addicted - a bog about videogames, cinema, politics and other things (in Italian)
Only if it was cheaper then paying monthly subscriptions and we only had to pay for what we played instead of 15 bucks a month then fine it would be ok, but i doubt it could be cheaper then current subscriptions.
Ironicaly Bill, if you go far enough back...Online gaming DID start with a pay-per-hour model.... at least that was my introduction to it. Gemstone 3 on Genie service...$3 per hour..Premium Service. I remember dreading those bills.
I think alot of the other early services.... Prodigy, Compuserve, AOL, etc had similar structures for many of the games they offered.
The AOL one was a D&D game of some sort and it was $8 an hour to play.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
It is quite obvious he was talking about believabilty. It is also quite obvious that the article was about reality and not believability. So therefore it should be obvious that the poster misread and/or misinterpreted the article as he contridicted the article saying the author got it all wrong.
Therefore I believe pointing out semantics in this instance are valid as he and the author weren't talking about the same 'reality'.
All of that said, it was not just this poster but several others claiming the author was 'wrong' about reality, when in fact they were 'wrong' about what he was saying.
So are you sure 'reality' is the word you want - you've had to explain this several times - I still say 'believabilty' rather than 'realism' would provide more clarity. Sometimes semantics do matter.
Actually the advertisement thing has already been done: in Acclaims "9 Dragons" (i don't even know if it is still up and running) everytime you logged in, and about every half an hour, an unclosable ad would pop up in the top of the screen and it would stay there for like 10 secs. Kind of a nuisance at first, but after some time, meh.
Playing: Starcraft II.
Played: Tibia, Ragnarok Online, Ultima Online, Guild Wars, World of Warcraft.
Wanna play: Guild Wars 2, SW:TOR, Final Fantasy XIV, Diablo III.
I think I understand the distinction, but how is ‘believability’ any clearer? What does it take for magic to be believable?
I'm not saying it's impossible to accomplish, but I'd be interested in an example or description.
Pulling rabbits from our hats and turning flowers into pigeons are as realistic a "magic" could get, if he wants to stick to the word.
Anyway, which "realistic magic system" are we referring to here? The kind that Tolkien depicts, or the ones by JK Rowling? There's more authors to list, really...
Seriously, did you even read the article? And you wonder why MMO's are going downhill....
While it's not advertising for other products, many F2P games have awful advertising.
I think LOTROs got 7 store buttons on the character sheet now? Something ridiculous. Along with the one that's always on the screen.
It used to feel a lot like Middle Earth, albeit a Theme Park. Now it's like walking through a Shopping Mall...
Atlantica has an in game announcement like every 15 minutes. "Buy so and such!"
R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there