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Companions Back In Flashpoints
Hengist
Member RarePosts: 1,315
So at the UK event the info many players brought back is that Companions are back in Flashpoints. A few weeks ago at Pax East we were told that at this time companions are not being allowed into flashpoints. Incidently still no companions in Warzones. (I really wish they'd say they have no intention of trying to do that either, but that's another post I'm sure.)
However, I like what they are doing, there is a 4 character limit in a Flashpoint, so you can do 4 players and no companions, or 2 players and 2 companions, or any combiation that works to 4.
From my point of view, I like it. It means that we can still try to run instances with less than 4 people, so there really isnt a need for an "insta-queue" system and especially a cross server one. This seems to make a lot of sense, and it means that people can pull out an NPC to fill the one role they cant find otherwise.
Finally, I think it is a validation of the way Bioware releases info in major updates. That philosophy of not releasing info in updates unless it is in the game makes sense. This is less than 30 days since Pax East, and this is a fairly important change, if they had announced back then that companions were not in flashpoints, and then made this change, can you imagine the howls from people if they found it out later on?
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They did say they were toying aruond with it though, and I doubt this will be the last we hear on this. They were in, then out, then in.. I think they're going to be testing this in house more and we probably won't know what will happen until its close to the very end of development.
Kinda of like what GW had, with regards to the flashpoints.
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"Nah, we can two man this one with our companions, let's not take little *insert your name here*. More loot for the both of us".
"OMG you pulled another ad! Replacing you with a companion now. *group kick*"
V_V
Not so happy about that decision. It is kinda anti social for such a group focussed part of the game to allow companion substitutes. Also I am curious about whether this will effect dungeon difficulty; making them too easy for a full player group would be a bad idea, imo.
It would be nice if picking a companion would at least be a suitably bad alternative to a player most of the times.
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Hmm. While I'm glad that companions are back in, I dislike this system.
What they should do in my opinion, is have a team be of 4 real players, and then offer a choice, either take your companion with you or accept some kind of buff or added available skill to use that'll compensate somewhat if someone doesn't want to bring a Companion with them.
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Well i don't know about skill levels, i realy don't see a comapnion healer doing as well as a fully spec one, but even beyond that, the comapnion is just that...a companion. I don't see it replacing a humans know how and whats best, they stated that you can't directly control your companions like pets. More like give a general order (be agressive defensive that sort of thing) and they will act according to their behavior modified to try and follow the order you gave.
While a human can switch between this and be much more diverse. AI isn't to the point where they can replace a good player...a bad one maybe, not a good one. I think this is more in place to fill a spot with a mediocre healer if you can't find a good one or have to go with none.
If i know companions or pets as they are in other games, unless your a pet class, tanks are meant to keep the attention while you quickly burn down the npc, or to heal you a little here and there while you fight the mob. But they never comapred to a human.
As for groups, i see this as...oh drat we can't find a X anywhere, anyone know someone who can fill the last spot...all group members say no...then someone comes up and say well...i have a X companion that might get usthrough. The other say okay, but we will have to take it slow, the other says oh of course.
I see companions as i understand them as 1/2 the power and ability of a player of the same level. If i'm right this means you'll always want the real person over a comapnion, but a companion over nothing at all.
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all this makes me wonder is how OP the bowdaar facepalm will be.
I feel its cool and adds flexibility to be able to have companions with you there.
For the social interaction there be many options outside the 4 man mini groups and i hope that they add such flexibility that you can also play group contend not only with 4 but also with 2, 3 or 6 players bcs one time there be not enough friends online the other time you have to let some one or two stay alone.
For when i am playing with friends its much about having fun and having a good time together and not about the max possible challenge and the most loot out of the specific scenario.
To meet new/other people, to encounter the biggest challenges there be other oportunitys like raids, pvp, economy, events and whatever else social option you have.
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I really don't see companions filling key roles in flashpoints. It's just not doable, not even with a super advanced A.I . Call me palaeolithic and carved in stone but my humble opinion is that they have no place in an instance. The machine lacks of human initiative and ability to react to unforeseen circumstances. Example: i am with my hunter in a WoW 5man when due to a misshap or a mess up the healer pulls aggro and a nasty add goes for him. I can trap it, kite it or direct it back to the tank saving the healer and thus preventing a potential wipe. No A.I can do this.
I'm never been a big fan of Companions, but at least this is a much better plan of attack if they are going to be useable in Flashpoints.
I do agree that using one as a tank or healer is going to be sub-optimal, but if I'm just missing a DPS, it makes things a little more bearable. You might have to be over level, or something, but at least it's doable, and I think that's key.
I could not imagine doing Taral V though with AI acting as a tank/healer.
I'm with you there.
Once again leave the choice in the players hands
I'm not sure what to think of it, at least until I see it in action. If its fun with companions, great! It would be unfortunate if they are a pita to manage however. I just hope its not exploitable, i.e. botters able to take on all the instances with companions covering everything else. It makes me wonder about flashpoint difficulty as well...if its able to be run with just a bunch of ai companions...though I suppose in the case of pugging, ai might be preferable to the general mass of players, lol. As an interesting side note, if companions have that good of a capacity, there is no need for a cross server dungeon finder, as stated by the OP (not that I ever want one).
I can support this as well. I've played several MMO's now with dungeons that "require" XX amount of people but can be done with less. Often I found it out becuase someone would join then go AFK and we booted them or they would quit for whatever reason shortly after. So as I see it, giving the players this choice is a good idea.
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I dont like companions in MMO,they should to be remowed from game
No sense use companions in fleshpoints.
Companions are no problem whatsoever they just offer choice and consequence.
It is all about choice and for anyone who wants options removing i say Shame on You.
But if you use companions in any event they should just factor down the loot rewards for Flashpoints:
4 players
150% loot and reward
4 players +1 Companion
125% loot and reward
4 Players +2
100% ""
4 PLayers +3
75% ""
4 Players +4
50% ""
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I can from something said be pretty sure, that they won't be on par with players.
they said before that if you were missing a healer you could take have your friends bring out their healer companions and do the flashpoint. So taking that, that would mean that companions are about 1/4th as capable as a normal jperson of equal level. Thus i suppose you could try to do the flashpoint with 3 people and healer companion but it gets tricky and you'd better know what your doing,.
If Taral V was any indication of power. Even in it's dumb downed version, people had a hard time beating it, and that wasn't a final boss, and that was with 4 live people (though inexperienced) with a normal healer.
Edit: I'm recalling the positives of taking people over companions slowly.
You also have to remember theres another positive to bringing a person over a companion. Remember when you get out of battle any live person can rez another party member. More live people more chances for someone to live that can rez. Companions as far as i know can't rez others. So the less live people the easier it is to die on it and have to run back. Which is annoying if the flashpoint is long.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Daniel Erickson clarifies a few things.
Hey Folks,
First of all, I want to say a huge thank you to everyone who came out for the event. I was running on four hours sleep, jet-lagged and we had just finished an all-day press event. The energy and enthusiasm you folks brought woke me up and kept me energized throughout. Like PAX, any time we get a chance to share the game with our fans it turns into an amazing time. Now, let me see if I can clear some stuff up that there seemed to be questions on:
- Party size in the game right now is four, which includes CCs. This is also true in Flashpoints. This does not mean having two people and their CCs is the same as having four people. CCs are powerful but they are not the same as having smart humans nor are they equal in power. So on a less difficult Flashpoint with amazing players or players that had a couple extra levels it’s likely possible to two man or three man them but I will say that when Alex and I tried to two-man the Heroics on Dromund Kaas with our CCs we got stomped flat. And, you know, I’ve been playing this game a while. Most important to remember: All of these rules can and likely will change in the future. And yes sometimes they’ll change week to week if there’s a new build during that time. This is what testing is about.
- I referred to “ten plus hour worlds”. It’s my short hand in the office for “big worlds.” It's not a concrete number for play time. Some of them are bigger than that. Some are much bigger. And obviously, your time spent on them may vary, especially if you like looking at our gorgeous landscapes.
-There are light side and dark side icons on the dialogue wheel if you are using the mouse. If you are using number keys to pick dialogue options, you’ll never see them. So if you hate the idea of choosing wrong, you’re going to be a mouse user for dialogue. If you hate the idea of hand holding you’ll be a number key player. Best of both worlds.
-Swimming will not be in TOR for ship. It is not a 'free feature' we turned off and is actually a huge amount of animation, pathfinding and AI work. Either every creature in the game needs to have water moving/fighting animations and AI to handle 3D movement or combat has to stop in the water with all the AI craziness that having safe zones you can jump in and out of entails. We have nothing against swimming but it’s never going to outrank improving combat, Companion AI or any of our other core features.
-Dark Side / Light Side is working even though most people didn’t see a difference in their bar on the terribly ugly placeholder Character Screen. The bar doesn’t move much per decision because it’s a long game. Highlighting the bar shows the point value which makes it easier to tell quest by quest progress.
- Class quest answers are not arranged by DS/LS but by class appropriateness. So the most “Boba Fett” response (curt, professional, all business) goes on the top of the Bounty Hunter. The most “Vader” on top of the Sith Warrior etc. So if you’re playing purely to your class fantasy you can just keep moving along easily. So in similar situations a Sith Warrior might have a “[Kill Him]” option as a first response but an Inquisitor might have it second and the first response might be trying to look deeper at the situation and discover what’s really going on.
-Darths do outrank Lords in our time period and both are official titles in this Sith Empire. The honorific, however, is always “my lord” when speaking to a Sith who outranks you whether they are officially a lord or not. So all soldiers in the Imperial military of normal rank (not moffs and generals, etc) will call you “my lord” as soon as you achieve Sith status. This doesn’t mean you’re actually a Lord by title yet. The Sith themselves have a complex sense of rank and will often try to test others with their forms of address.
-There was an odd bug that was causing cover points to appear for Troopers and Bounty Hunters. These have not become cover classes.
-Training abilities does cost credits.
-Datacrons are, in fact, spread all over TOR in hard to reach places, do appear on your map if you’re close enough, have some awesome history pieces for your codex, are very hard to get (I’ve only gotten a couple ever in playing) and do permanently increase your stats. Kudos to Kandycane for being the first person I’ve ever seen to get one at an event. Explorer badge!
Hope that helps,
Daniel Erickson
Only thing i'm disappointed in,
-Swimming will not be in TOR for ship
Hopefully they will fix that asap. I understand it needs to be worked out but that is kinda a feature you need as well. Not a core feature mind you but a major one (at least to me) in the game. Something they should fix within the next month or so.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I was more encouraged by the end of the paragraph on Swimming when he said they'd rather spend their time on more important things, such as IMPROVING COMBAT
stephen reid responds about swimming:
StephenReid General Discussion -> Did You Play at the UK Community Event? Post Your Experiences Here!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuro_Shinigami
Mr. Erickson regarding your post stating that swimming is not a feature you turned off and is not auto included, are you then saying the developers of the hero engine are lying when their demo shows that it is in fact included? no one is asking for combat animations in the water or under water combat, we are asking for the simple immersive factor of not walking under the water to the other side, and as per the engine demo video, it is already programmed and included! HERO ENGINE VIDEO
please refer to THIS THREAD to see how passionate the community is about this.
Thank you for your time.
The Hero Engine in TOR has been extensively modified from the original code. I'm not an expert on the differences, but I know it's been very much reworked for SWTOR. Therefore any feature you may see from a marketing video isn't guaranteed to appear in the final game.
As Daniel said - and elaborated on - swimming was not an easy feature to implement in SWTOR. The inclusion of swimming was weighed against other features and was cut for launch. That doesn't mean it might not be re-considered for the future, but right now, it's not in.
We've seen the feedback and we'll continue to monitor it, but right now, don't expect it at launch.
Agreed, not having swimming in what is ostensibly supposed to be a fairly open would RPG is like not having jumping. It kills immersion (no pun intended), which is a much bigger deal than I think people realize... especially in a game that is hyping up the heck out of what an immersive story experience the game is supposed to be.
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Are you sure they plan on allowing you to swim, because that response seemed to indicate to me that swimming wasn't going to happen in this game? It would be great if there was some missions that allowed you deep sea swim like in The Phantom Menace. Yes, I hated the gungans as well, but those deep water scenes were sweet.
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Dark it is already anti social just to go into dungeons just expecting PHAT loot , those people are anti social .
And kick is the most likely outcome , infact some PUGS in WoW were kicking so many tanks , they couldn´t even kick me .
The whole issue this works out , in the long run the best , you will get people willing to pug just for the fun of meeting other people .
Those loot greedy ninjas , will prefer to stay with a small group , and people who like to play with small group of friends .
Will play with small group of friends , but this means for people like me , who like to pug to meet strangers .
Will pug just for the fun of it , not to be bothered by social greedy outcast .
IT also solves problems like suddenly a L33T player leaves , and you have to wait another 30 min for replacement .
Cause it is a bit harder , but atleast you can finish your run .
Anyway it isn´t meant to replace a smart social person , it is meant to replace a leech , anybody who can play average or beter , will always beat the companion .
The advangetages outweigh the disadvangetages , cause they going to happen anyway .
Nope not sure. Hence the word hopefully. the general feel of that post came off to me as we want swimming in but due to certain mechanics and focusing on more core features we just can't have it...at ship (which means at lauch).
Thus i speculated...that they may put it in later...if the members want it. I do want it so i'm hoping they will put it in asap. Most MMOs have swimming even some of the F2P ones. While they are pretty basic the fact that a major AAA one wont will seem odd to at least the MMO crowd. So i see pressure being high to put it in when it comes to lauch. But we will see.
Again still hyped for this game, and hoping they put it it in, if not at launch, soon after.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
THe deep water scenes they were in a gungan sub, better for a tunnel shooter in that case. They did swim tot he gungan city but we never see them fight under water with their lightsabers.
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Im not a fan of npcs replacing real players in a dungeon. But i only run dungeons once anyway so ill just make sure i do it with a real group.