I would say that the reason 99% or however many guilds are formed disappear is because of the quality of the games itself and that it usually has nothing to do with any sort of big falling out or drama. People get tired of doing the same raid over and over for the 60th time, no matter how much you like to talk about watching South Park or the best movies. I left my last three guilds because I grew to hate the games, not the guild. In fact, the last three guilds I left coincides with the last three MMO's I played. So there.
I appreciate the guy's intentions to write about community, but I really don't think they can possibly be as close-knit as a real 20-100 person guild would be due to sheer numbers. They probably stay together only because of the number of members they have; when large chunks break off, they still maintain their numbers due to presence in a large number of games and cliques forming in-guild. Obviously this guild would have to be run by a farm animal to ever truly disappear just based on the numbers. Not to say recruiting that many is easy, but if you start with even only a few people you already know, then it's not difficult to gain footing in games at all.
I've heard of them before. I saw them in a MMO Documentary called "Second Skin" which was very fascinating. Its something I think all gamers should watch. It really dives into the negative and positive aspects of online gaming. And shows people whos lives its impacted in both good, and bad ways. At any rate, let me post links for all of you that dont know who they are. And I'll also link the documentary for any that are interested in watching it.
Most of that is all just an opinion and publishing a book is not some great feat. The Syndicate's claim to being the longest running guild is simply not true. They used a loophole with Guiness in order to make that claim with them. They knew what they were doing flat out when they did it. Sean Stalzer acknowledged it in a previous thread without admitting to the fact outright that he was doing nothing more than "legal maneuvering". I can think of a number of guilds that have been around continuously since NWN on AOL, which launched in 1991, not 96 when UO came out. In fact KAAOS and The Mercs come to mind as old school guilds that have been around longer. On a side note, when I see people pull moves like that, which are clearly not ethical and lacking integrity, it makes me just flat out not care what they have to say at all. If anything, it makes me avoid them entirely.
Banegrivm Leader of the 1st Fist of Light www.1stfistoflight.com
I'm looking forward to the blog posts. I've always been a big fan of community. Which is something thats dying IMO with how games are becoming so solo-sentric now and breeding armies of neurotic trolls. Good luck with the column .
I'm looking forward to the blog posts. I've always been a big fan of community. Which is something thats dying IMO with how games are becoming so solo-sentric now and breeding armies of neurotic trolls. Good luck with the column .
Because thats what people want. and thus result in solo sentric mmo's, the day that dev's can make the game they want is long gone, hence the overall quality of games is going backwards instead of forward because dev's cant make what they want it turns his passion into a job so no 100% motivation.
to an extend Its the community that ruins the mmo not the industry.
While I don't know what the hub bub is about; in all honesty this article could've hit the ground running and done just fine. The whole resume / promotion posting stuff looked like it was designed to stir this up.
You guys hiring for a content director? Because a lot of the images are getting used without links back to their source and that's bad form too.
I'm looking forward to the blog posts. I've always been a big fan of community. Which is something thats dying IMO with how games are becoming so solo-sentric now and breeding armies of neurotic trolls. Good luck with the column .
Because thats what people want. and thus result in solo sentric mmo's, the day that dev's can make the game they want is long gone, hence the overall quality of games is going backwards instead of forward because dev's cant make what they want it turns his passion into a job so no 100% motivation.
to an extend Its the community that ruins the mmo not the industry.
Yeah, I agree. My very first MMO was Dofus. And I've been a semi-active player since its launch, which was probably a year after WoW (or maybe the same year? I cant remember). At any rate, I remember the MMO gaming community back then being very friendly. It was like playing as a kid with all your neighborhood friends. And then as the years progressed the playerbase started getting more, and more hateful. Which is probably why my circle of friends in MMOs is increadably small. And whenever I've made guilds I go through a strict screening process. I play a game to enjoy its content, explore, meet new people, etc. Not to bash on people I dont even know. To this day the 2 friendliest gaming communities I've ever played with were FFXI, and Dofus. I have yet to find any other MMOs that still had a helpful, and friendly playerbase. You get a rotten egg once in a while, but the good far outweigh the bad comepared to many other titles I've played.
A lot of the people seem to have 'Not Heard' of The Syndicate , yet there has been quite a lot about them on this site over the last few weeks - so What have u been reading, that u have 'Never Heard' of them?
Seems to be a lot of Nasty Comments going on.
I have heard of them, and Yes b4 I read about them on this site. And quite frankly I have never heard anything bad - well not until I read the comments on this site via Members of the Forums - so I am not sure where All this Ugliness is coming from - could it be ...........Jealousy?
Pretty much. I never heard a bad thing said about them either. And I've known about them for about 3 years now. I probably would have known about them a lot sooner if I played UO, or WoW. But seeing as how I was never a big fan of either game, that explains that xD. I haven't seen them in any of the games I've frequented, and probably because they're games that they just don't play often, or at all, anymore. If I ever saw them sprout a base in any future releases though, such as TERA, I'd be all about trying to get in. They sound like a really nice group of people to play with.
- MMOs intention to courage solo play more this last years, which breaks communities as more and more players can say 'Why bother to play with others, I can solo these stuff'. Solo play does not only include questing but crafting, grinding, pvp (to the some point)
- Mechanisation of players with some in-game tools (WoW's dungeon finder, Rift's public grouping). Players don't even need to talk with each other at all with these tools.
I think those two above combined can form a good article.
A bit side note, the three paragraphs I read was about syndicate. I understand you want to make your advertisement when you can, but it gives me the feeling this guy just bought that 3 paragraphs. I wouldn't care less if it wasn't a full A4 page really. Maybe next time we'll see more content about MMOs and less content about your guild.
CEO of an MMO guild? Is this the hyperbole that Stradden mentions?
To me community is more than a guild. Community is the collective nature of a game as a whole and how that game works to encourage community. Guilds are a seperate part of that, and whether a guild lasts the amount of time the Syndicate reports to have, or the lesser amount of time the guilds they look down on may have, it's all intra-communities within the larger community of the game.
It's that larger community of games that has degraded, not the small guild ones. Now if this guy goes on to look at the community side of MMOs, and what can be done to encourage it, then that will be great. I think he's going to continue to spout egotisical (his words) ramblings about his mighty Syndicate.
It's nice of MMORPG.com to decide to take a look at what can be done to support the community side of things, but are the views of one guy, who procalims himself chief executive officer of a group of geeks (sorry, but we are), really the answers to a possible problem. I'm sure he's a nice guy, though I've never met him or the Syndicate, but is he really responsible for putting a community face on MMOs or is he just a guy that started a guild that managed to keep going?
It's actually my feelings that guilds have somewhat damaged the community nature of MMOs. When I went from EQ to EQ2 it was all guilds. They ruined the PUG aspect of EQ by sticking together. I can recall the many times I have found myself in a PUG that is composed of many members from one guild that were short on hands and recruited the final one or two people for their descent into a dungeon. They're not the most memorable of experiences and they usually ended up with me being bored because of the chatter was in guild chat or I got little out of the trip because the guild swallowed up loot. So there's a great intra-community in these guilds, but do they help the overall game community?
Okay so current MMOs are not helping matters, and that needs to be addressed. More so than how to maintain a guild.
Now, I am all for a new column, by anyone, and I am sure Dragons has some interesting things to say and has experience to help shape those opinions.
I am, however, supremely annoyed at the behaviour of the leaders of this website, who it is clear now posted ridiculous "news" stories to acclimate us, I suppose, to the coming of this column. I am not sure it was a good idea, where there was nearly universal disdain for that choice, to bring a new column by the leader of that guild. Now, I hate censorship of any kind, and I, as I said, welcome anyone new with opinions founded on having played many games, which I suppose Dragons has.
I do not like the way it feels that MMORPG is setting this guild apart from others as if it is the only one worth talking about. Yes, I read what Stradden said, but I can't believe no other guild leader has ever wanted to do this sort of thing.
I do not like the way The Syndicate seems to portray itself more as a company than a gaming guild. I don't like the way people keep talking about them having clout with developers (that concerns me greatly). And I don't like the way this website seems to be showing them preferential treatment.
That said, I am sure to be the guild leader *cough* CEO of a large group like that, Dragons knows a thing or two about gaming communities, and would be worth seeing what discussions we can have about them.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Now, I am all for a new column, by anyone, and I am sure Dragons has some interesting things to say and has experience to help shape those opinions.
I am, however, supremely annoyed at the behaviour of the leaders of this website, who it is clear now posted ridiculous "news" stories to acclimate us, I suppose, to the coming of this column. I am not sure it was a good idea, where there was nearly universal disdain for that choice, to bring a new column by the leader of that guild. Now, I hate censorship of any kind, and I, as I said, welcome anyone new with opinions founded on having played many games, which I suppose Dragons has.
I do not like the way it feels that MMORPG is setting this guild apart from others as if it is the only one worth talking about. Yes, I read what Stradden said, but I can't believe no other guild leader has ever wanted to do this sort of thing.
I do not like the way The Syndicate seems to portray itself more as a company than a gaming guild. I don't like the way people keep talking about them having clout with developers (that concerns me greatly). And I don't like the way this website seems to be showing them preferential treatment.
That said, I am sure to be the guild leader *cough* CEO of a large group like that, Dragons knows a thing or two about gaming communities, and would be worth seeing what discussions we can have about them.
I will have to agree on most points made,. especially the one I highlighted. However the text in red, I will say I have to disagree with.
I don't understand the people's hate in here. So we have a guy (who is apparently a very experienced guild leader) talking about gaming communities, call me odd but I fail to see how this is a bad thing. In fact, it's going to provoke rather interesting discussions.
My other thought is that MMORPG.COM should (as another had indicated) open the door to other larger guilds or just guilds that do things that are noteworthy.
We have never closed our doors to any guild... ever. The Syndicate is simply the first large guild that reached out to us. I strongly encourage, should they want to, other large scale guilds to approach us.
Whatever you personal feelings about this particular guild, Its leader,the man we have writing the articles, is well respected within the industry. I've spoken with him a number of times about MMOs and the stuff that goes on around them and he has always been very knowledgable. That's why he has a column here.
The guild perspective is an area of MMOs that we've lacked in our columns in the past. We're seeking to rectify that.
My personal feelings is that I don't have personal feelings toward the guy or his guild. I'm always for different viewpoints as I find it spurs conversation.
Having said that is seems a very diverse group of guilds will have to be featured in order to apease a lot of people who have some issues with the start of the column.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I will have to agree that it is pretty ironic that all the news about The Syndicate strikes up a massassive flame war on all the new columns. YET they bring in the leader to LEAD news columns.
I look at this as they favor The Syndicate and make brash decisions on somthing that could have great potential.
Gaming community: IRONFIST New World: Lilith - US East WoW Guild: IRONFIST <Burning Legion> Alliance(We transferred to Illidan) WoW Guild: IRONFIST <Illidan> Horde SWOTR: IRONFIST <Satele Shan> Empire/Republic
sorry. hey Sean, cant wait to read your column. i know everything i just said is exactly what you dont have in your guild, I was upset i guess. i do know about your guild i think it would be awesome to see what you have to say. so... welcome
Well the mod edit messed up the context of my post. I was replying to an angry post full of four-letter words. It was basically claiming that the leader (sorry CEO) of The Syndicate was a God, and that everyone who didn't know or worship him was detritus.
This post beautifully outlines why communities in MMOs are often found lacking. The language is appalling and the anger apparent. People may not like the idea of a column by this guy, who it is quite understandable that people may not know, but at least they can put their thoughts in to words without going over the top with anger and abusiveness. Attitudes like this ruin MMO communities because there is always someone willing to be an aggressive and damaging factor.
There are too many people that damage MMO communities to make them wholly successful. Just look at the arguments that have insued from the EQ progression servers. There is constant debate about who killed what, who trained who or who had rights to a kill. It's not only arguments but the throwing back and forth of insults and bad language.
There is nothing wrong with forming a criticism of something, it is the way people do it. They can present it eloquently or they can become rude and lacking in sense. There's too much of the latter in MMO communities. Can anyone do anything about that? The developers probably can not without a strict set of rules, but maybe the communities can by isolating the damaging factor.
I don't get it. Why is a new writer coming on board a bad thing? Personally, I am looking forward to reading some of his work. If I agree or disagree it's all good if in the final analysis I acquire new information or a new viewpoint. You simple learn to learn and expand your world, or become roadkill. It's called life and there is no getting over it.
I don't get it. Why is a new writer coming on board a bad thing? Personally, I am looking forward to reading some of his work. If I agree or disagree it's all good if in the final analysis I acquire new information or a new viewpoint. You simple learn to learn and expand your world, or become roadkill. It's called life and there is no getting over it.
I don't think anyone thinks it's a bad thing to have a new writer on board. I believe it's the context that has got people double taking. Here is some guy that has led a long lasting MMO guild across a number of games. It doesn't appear that he has ever made an MMO or run an MMO's community team, yet he is being promoted as the person to lead us in to a new era of MMO community filled pleasure. Yes, it has been noted there's some hyperbole attached, but what's the point of a serious column shroude din hyperbole?
I certainly agree with a need to discuss why MMOs seem so lacking in community, but I think it's something for a round table, or big discussion, not some guy who's led a guild. That only addresses the community of a guild, and I don't think it's a huge, huge accomplishment to keep a group of friends together for twelve years.
There's far more pressing factors that damage MMO communities that can only be addressed by those who develop the games.
I welcome the guy on board, because I'm sure he has some interesting stuff to say, but there's a fair amount of pessisism from me that this is going to change our genre. I'd love to see some community improvement from it though. Maybe some developers will take note of what transpires here.
Well I didn't read the full article becuase I lost interest while reading the self loving gloating from the author about his massive achievments. Anyways He did make a few valid points in what I did read. How guilds come and go, implode, etc. How there really are no other guilds as large that have been around for as long as his. So with this in mind, how does this guy have a clue about player communities at all, clearly his 1,200 strong community is nothing at all like the communities the rest of us play with.
I know these guys are constantly tapped for betas and their feed back is requested and valued higher then other gamers. This is very disturbing to me when to me its clear this guild is a fluke and most likely only successful because it is run as a business. The rest of us play games to escape work. In any case, I hope developers are inteligent enough to take anything this guy has to say with a grain of salt and realize that while his guild is large, in fact it is the minority of their potential player communities and in no way as the author says himself, a reprsentation of the typical or average guild.
"MMORPG.com is pleased to feature a brand new column that will focus on gaming communities. No one is more eminently qualified to talk about these two critical features than the President and CEO of The Syndicate Sean Stalzer. Read Sean's introductory column as he offers up his qualifications and some thoughts about the future of his column."
I havent even made it to the article and already two bones to pick. First off, what TWO critical FEATURES are you talking about? A community isnt a "feature" and even if it was that's only one example.
Secondly, are you seriously trying to say no one in the entire world of gaming is more "eminently" qualified than this person in the realm of game communities? Seriously? No one? Is anyone remotely close? Maybe you could give us your top ten and list what ranking system you used to tally that score.
So, hyperbole not really in your vocab then?
I prefer honesty and integrity.
ooh, burn.
Seriously man, it's a video game website. a little bit of hyperbole won't hurt. No need to take everything so 100% seriously. It ws written obviously in a hyperbolic style, and you're nitpicking. Let it go and roll with it.
wasnt there a column a little while back warning us all of the dangers of using hyperbole and why it isnt good?
Been playing MMO's since Ultima Online, and never heard of that guild.
Besides when I think of "The Syndicate" I think of...
Ma I loved that game back in the day.
OH WOW I loved that game back in the day. I used to run around with a flame thrower and blast everything. I played the DOS version on my 486 haha. It's funny, but I am the same and to this day when I see or hear the word 'syndicate' I think of this game.
No idea who the Syndicate guild is and I have been around the block. The only multi gaming guild I am aware of is my own and the Goons of course. Good luck to them regardless
Miniguns...
/sigh yeah, Bullfrog made great games... their destruction by EA makes the NGE look like a tickle.
From my perspective, this will be a new column and not a blog. Why did that occur? We have a number of excellent writers who have earned 'blog' spots but are not 'guest writers'? Paragus, Teala, Sovrath (who doesn't have a blog but should IMO). These folks have proven track records within the community. Why not something from them?
I personally don't care a whit about the Syndicate. . What does matter is self-aggrandizement. We could have had a new writer (guest if you will) without the grand announcements of 'CEO of the Syndicate' and '1200 members unlike the misquoted # here on this very site'....blah, blah, blah. Just write without the self-promotion.
I suppose the 'spin' argument to my issue would be that a CEO of the oldest 'Virtual Community' on the web with only 6-8 members of 1200 leaving per year would be a true success story and know everything there is to know. (Apparently 85% of whom rejoin so they have only lost 18 members over 15 years...) . *blinks* Really?
To the folks who call this group a guild, remember that 'The Syndicate isn't a guild, we are the industry leaders in gaming excellence and the most successful virtual community in the history of online gaming.' By their own definition.
I'll read the articles that are posted but the first time... actually to be generous I'll say the 2nd time, I see something to the extent of 'We at the Syndicate...' it will be the last time I read.
Well the mod edit messed up the context of my post. I was replying to an angry post full of four-letter words. It was basically claiming that the leader (sorry CEO) of The Syndicate was a God, and that everyone who didn't know or worship him was detritus.
This post beautifully outlines why communities in MMOs are often found lacking. The language is appalling and the anger apparent. People may not like the idea of a column by this guy, who it is quite understandable that people may not know, but at least they can put their thoughts in to words without going over the top with anger and abusiveness. Attitudes like this ruin MMO communities because there is always someone willing to be an aggressive and damaging factor.
There are too many people that damage MMO communities to make them wholly successful. Just look at the arguments that have insued from the EQ progression servers. There is constant debate about who killed what, who trained who or who had rights to a kill. It's not only arguments but the throwing back and forth of insults and bad language.
There is nothing wrong with forming a criticism of something, it is the way people do it. They can present it eloquently or they can become rude and lacking in sense. There's too much of the latter in MMO communities. Can anyone do anything about that? The developers probably can not without a strict set of rules, but maybe the communities can by isolating the damaging factor.
Yes I read that post last night, he was very angry there was no less than 20 expletive's. And yes he was very mad at any of those of us who dared to say anything negative about his guild. In fact we had several of there guild members show up in this thread with anger as well, all but one of them have had their post modded or out right deleted. However that guy was way over the top.
I get it, I understand they love their guild, and they don't want to be dished, It is obvious they are not used to be challenged, something they are going to have to get used to if they are going to stick around here.
It should be interesting to hear what this fellow has to say at his next column, and see the results. I expect more of the same. A lot of disagreement, and a lot of bashing of folks who disagree. It just the way these forums work nowadays.
Well the mod edit messed up the context of my post. I was replying to an angry post full of four-letter words. It was basically claiming that the leader (sorry CEO) of The Syndicate was a God, and that everyone who didn't know or worship him was detritus.
This post beautifully outlines why communities in MMOs are often found lacking. The language is appalling and the anger apparent. People may not like the idea of a column by this guy, who it is quite understandable that people may not know, but at least they can put their thoughts in to words without going over the top with anger and abusiveness. Attitudes like this ruin MMO communities because there is always someone willing to be an aggressive and damaging factor.
There are too many people that damage MMO communities to make them wholly successful. Just look at the arguments that have insued from the EQ progression servers. There is constant debate about who killed what, who trained who or who had rights to a kill. It's not only arguments but the throwing back and forth of insults and bad language.
There is nothing wrong with forming a criticism of something, it is the way people do it. They can present it eloquently or they can become rude and lacking in sense. There's too much of the latter in MMO communities. Can anyone do anything about that? The developers probably can not without a strict set of rules, but maybe the communities can by isolating the damaging factor.
Yes I read that post last night, he was very angry there was no less than 20 expletive's. And yes he was very mad at any of those of us who dared to say anything negative about his guild. In fact we had several of there guild members show up in this thread with anger as well, all but one of them have had their post modded or out right deleted. However that guy was way over the top.
I get it, I understand they love their guild, and they don't want to be dished, It is obvious they are not used to be challenged, something they are going to have to get used to if they are going to stick around here.
It should be interesting to hear what this fellow has to say at his next column, and see the results. I expect more of the same. A lot of disagreement, and a lot of bashing of folks who disagree. It just the way these forums work nowadays.
Disagreement is always warranted and nothing would be acheived without it. The problem with much of the internet is that disagreement often ends up being abusive and argumentative. How many threads do you see that quickly turn in to flame wars? Community is broken, and not just in MMOs. It's a hard thing to fix when so many people are intent on putting wedges in reasonable discussions.
I actually think MMORPG.com don't always help with their modding. They are rather quick to weed out the seriously abusive and inapplicable posts, but they are equally quick to weed out stuff that might well be useful along with editting bits of posts to make threads look disjointed and hard to follow. There was a column a few weeks ago and though I can't recall exactly what it was about, it descended into a bit of a frcas very quickly, though it was never an overly abusive fracas, but just a few people asking someone with blunt and non-constructive posts to elaborate a bit. The mods ripped the thread to bits even though there were some good points.
Maybe the answer to building communities is to help ourselves. Weed out the bad element and support the good. Just don't be so destructive at weeding out the bad that the whole place descends in to a fracas.
I guess control is one thing this Dragon guy can teach us. He must have had his moments where he has needed to resolve disputes and he's obviously done a good job at that. How do you maintain a peaceful community without coming across as a dictator?
Of course maybe we're in a losing battle already. It's often in the press over here in the UK that society and community are wrecked. If it's like that in the big, wide world, then what hope do MMO communities have?
The hostile posts that the mods deleted that purported to be from "Syndicate members" were merely trolls attempting to stir up controversy and make the members of The Syndicate look bad. The kind of people we recruit do not engage in hostile posts, name calling and trolling. There are also guild rules prohibiting that kind of conduct that results in loss of membership if its broken.
The suggestions on topics for this series were collected and passed to Dragons. Thank you for posting those.
Comments
I would say that the reason 99% or however many guilds are formed disappear is because of the quality of the games itself and that it usually has nothing to do with any sort of big falling out or drama. People get tired of doing the same raid over and over for the 60th time, no matter how much you like to talk about watching South Park or the best movies. I left my last three guilds because I grew to hate the games, not the guild. In fact, the last three guilds I left coincides with the last three MMO's I played. So there.
I appreciate the guy's intentions to write about community, but I really don't think they can possibly be as close-knit as a real 20-100 person guild would be due to sheer numbers. They probably stay together only because of the number of members they have; when large chunks break off, they still maintain their numbers due to presence in a large number of games and cliques forming in-guild. Obviously this guild would have to be run by a farm animal to ever truly disappear just based on the numbers. Not to say recruiting that many is easy, but if you start with even only a few people you already know, then it's not difficult to gain footing in games at all.
{mod edit}
Most of that is all just an opinion and publishing a book is not some great feat. The Syndicate's claim to being the longest running guild is simply not true. They used a loophole with Guiness in order to make that claim with them. They knew what they were doing flat out when they did it. Sean Stalzer acknowledged it in a previous thread without admitting to the fact outright that he was doing nothing more than "legal maneuvering". I can think of a number of guilds that have been around continuously since NWN on AOL, which launched in 1991, not 96 when UO came out. In fact KAAOS and The Mercs come to mind as old school guilds that have been around longer. On a side note, when I see people pull moves like that, which are clearly not ethical and lacking integrity, it makes me just flat out not care what they have to say at all. If anything, it makes me avoid them entirely.
Banegrivm
Leader of the 1st Fist of Light
www.1stfistoflight.com
I'm looking forward to the blog posts. I've always been a big fan of community. Which is something thats dying IMO with how games are becoming so solo-sentric now and breeding armies of neurotic trolls. Good luck with the column
.
Because thats what people want. and thus result in solo sentric mmo's, the day that dev's can make the game they want is long gone, hence the overall quality of games is going backwards instead of forward because dev's cant make what they want it turns his passion into a job so no 100% motivation.
to an extend Its the community that ruins the mmo not the industry.
Can I have your...
While I don't know what the hub bub is about; in all honesty this article could've hit the ground running and done just fine. The whole resume / promotion posting stuff looked like it was designed to stir this up.
You guys hiring for a content director? Because a lot of the images are getting used without links back to their source and that's bad form too.
Yeah, I agree. My very first MMO was Dofus. And I've been a semi-active player since its launch, which was probably a year after WoW (or maybe the same year? I cant remember). At any rate, I remember the MMO gaming community back then being very friendly. It was like playing as a kid with all your neighborhood friends. And then as the years progressed the playerbase started getting more, and more hateful. Which is probably why my circle of friends in MMOs is increadably small. And whenever I've made guilds I go through a strict screening process. I play a game to enjoy its content, explore, meet new people, etc. Not to bash on people I dont even know. To this day the 2 friendliest gaming communities I've ever played with were FFXI, and Dofus. I have yet to find any other MMOs that still had a helpful, and friendly playerbase. You get a rotten egg once in a while, but the good far outweigh the bad comepared to many other titles I've played.
Pretty much. I never heard a bad thing said about them either. And I've known about them for about 3 years now. I probably would have known about them a lot sooner if I played UO, or WoW. But seeing as how I was never a big fan of either game, that explains that xD. I haven't seen them in any of the games I've frequented, and probably because they're games that they just don't play often, or at all, anymore. If I ever saw them sprout a base in any future releases though, such as TERA, I'd be all about trying to get in. They sound like a really nice group of people to play with.
An idea what to write for about communities:
- MMOs intention to courage solo play more this last years, which breaks communities as more and more players can say 'Why bother to play with others, I can solo these stuff'. Solo play does not only include questing but crafting, grinding, pvp (to the some point)
- Mechanisation of players with some in-game tools (WoW's dungeon finder, Rift's public grouping). Players don't even need to talk with each other at all with these tools.
I think those two above combined can form a good article.
A bit side note, the three paragraphs I read was about syndicate. I understand you want to make your advertisement when you can, but it gives me the feeling this guy just bought that 3 paragraphs. I wouldn't care less if it wasn't a full A4 page really. Maybe next time we'll see more content about MMOs and less content about your guild.
CEO of an MMO guild? Is this the hyperbole that Stradden mentions?
To me community is more than a guild. Community is the collective nature of a game as a whole and how that game works to encourage community. Guilds are a seperate part of that, and whether a guild lasts the amount of time the Syndicate reports to have, or the lesser amount of time the guilds they look down on may have, it's all intra-communities within the larger community of the game.
It's that larger community of games that has degraded, not the small guild ones. Now if this guy goes on to look at the community side of MMOs, and what can be done to encourage it, then that will be great. I think he's going to continue to spout egotisical (his words) ramblings about his mighty Syndicate.
It's nice of MMORPG.com to decide to take a look at what can be done to support the community side of things, but are the views of one guy, who procalims himself chief executive officer of a group of geeks (sorry, but we are), really the answers to a possible problem. I'm sure he's a nice guy, though I've never met him or the Syndicate, but is he really responsible for putting a community face on MMOs or is he just a guy that started a guild that managed to keep going?
It's actually my feelings that guilds have somewhat damaged the community nature of MMOs. When I went from EQ to EQ2 it was all guilds. They ruined the PUG aspect of EQ by sticking together. I can recall the many times I have found myself in a PUG that is composed of many members from one guild that were short on hands and recruited the final one or two people for their descent into a dungeon. They're not the most memorable of experiences and they usually ended up with me being bored because of the chatter was in guild chat or I got little out of the trip because the guild swallowed up loot. So there's a great intra-community in these guilds, but do they help the overall game community?
Okay so current MMOs are not helping matters, and that needs to be addressed. More so than how to maintain a guild.
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Now, I am all for a new column, by anyone, and I am sure Dragons has some interesting things to say and has experience to help shape those opinions.
I am, however, supremely annoyed at the behaviour of the leaders of this website, who it is clear now posted ridiculous "news" stories to acclimate us, I suppose, to the coming of this column. I am not sure it was a good idea, where there was nearly universal disdain for that choice, to bring a new column by the leader of that guild. Now, I hate censorship of any kind, and I, as I said, welcome anyone new with opinions founded on having played many games, which I suppose Dragons has.
I do not like the way it feels that MMORPG is setting this guild apart from others as if it is the only one worth talking about. Yes, I read what Stradden said, but I can't believe no other guild leader has ever wanted to do this sort of thing.
I do not like the way The Syndicate seems to portray itself more as a company than a gaming guild. I don't like the way people keep talking about them having clout with developers (that concerns me greatly). And I don't like the way this website seems to be showing them preferential treatment.
That said, I am sure to be the guild leader *cough* CEO of a large group like that, Dragons knows a thing or two about gaming communities, and would be worth seeing what discussions we can have about them.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
I will have to agree on most points made,. especially the one I highlighted. However the text in red, I will say I have to disagree with.
I don't understand the people's hate in here. So we have a guy (who is apparently a very experienced guild leader) talking about gaming communities, call me odd but I fail to see how this is a bad thing. In fact, it's going to provoke rather interesting discussions.
My personal feelings is that I don't have personal feelings toward the guy or his guild. I'm always for different viewpoints as I find it spurs conversation.
Having said that is seems a very diverse group of guilds will have to be featured in order to apease a lot of people who have some issues with the start of the column.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I will have to agree that it is pretty ironic that all the news about The Syndicate strikes up a massassive flame war on all the new columns. YET they bring in the leader to LEAD news columns.
I look at this as they favor The Syndicate and make brash decisions on somthing that could have great potential.
Gaming community: IRONFIST
New World: Lilith - US East
WoW Guild: IRONFIST <Burning Legion> Alliance(We transferred to Illidan)
WoW Guild: IRONFIST <Illidan> Horde
SWOTR: IRONFIST <Satele Shan> Empire/Republic
sorry. hey Sean, cant wait to read your column. i know everything i just said is exactly what you dont have in your guild, I was upset i guess. i do know about your guild i think it would be awesome to see what you have to say. so... welcome
[Mod Edit]
Well the mod edit messed up the context of my post. I was replying to an angry post full of four-letter words. It was basically claiming that the leader (sorry CEO) of The Syndicate was a God, and that everyone who didn't know or worship him was detritus.
This post beautifully outlines why communities in MMOs are often found lacking. The language is appalling and the anger apparent. People may not like the idea of a column by this guy, who it is quite understandable that people may not know, but at least they can put their thoughts in to words without going over the top with anger and abusiveness. Attitudes like this ruin MMO communities because there is always someone willing to be an aggressive and damaging factor.
There are too many people that damage MMO communities to make them wholly successful. Just look at the arguments that have insued from the EQ progression servers. There is constant debate about who killed what, who trained who or who had rights to a kill. It's not only arguments but the throwing back and forth of insults and bad language.
There is nothing wrong with forming a criticism of something, it is the way people do it. They can present it eloquently or they can become rude and lacking in sense. There's too much of the latter in MMO communities. Can anyone do anything about that? The developers probably can not without a strict set of rules, but maybe the communities can by isolating the damaging factor.
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I don't get it. Why is a new writer coming on board a bad thing? Personally, I am looking forward to reading some of his work. If I agree or disagree it's all good if in the final analysis I acquire new information or a new viewpoint. You simple learn to learn and expand your world, or become roadkill. It's called life and there is no getting over it.
I don't think anyone thinks it's a bad thing to have a new writer on board. I believe it's the context that has got people double taking. Here is some guy that has led a long lasting MMO guild across a number of games. It doesn't appear that he has ever made an MMO or run an MMO's community team, yet he is being promoted as the person to lead us in to a new era of MMO community filled pleasure. Yes, it has been noted there's some hyperbole attached, but what's the point of a serious column shroude din hyperbole?
I certainly agree with a need to discuss why MMOs seem so lacking in community, but I think it's something for a round table, or big discussion, not some guy who's led a guild. That only addresses the community of a guild, and I don't think it's a huge, huge accomplishment to keep a group of friends together for twelve years.
There's far more pressing factors that damage MMO communities that can only be addressed by those who develop the games.
I welcome the guy on board, because I'm sure he has some interesting stuff to say, but there's a fair amount of pessisism from me that this is going to change our genre. I'd love to see some community improvement from it though. Maybe some developers will take note of what transpires here.
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Well I didn't read the full article becuase I lost interest while reading the self loving gloating from the author about his massive achievments. Anyways He did make a few valid points in what I did read. How guilds come and go, implode, etc. How there really are no other guilds as large that have been around for as long as his. So with this in mind, how does this guy have a clue about player communities at all, clearly his 1,200 strong community is nothing at all like the communities the rest of us play with.
I know these guys are constantly tapped for betas and their feed back is requested and valued higher then other gamers. This is very disturbing to me when to me its clear this guild is a fluke and most likely only successful because it is run as a business. The rest of us play games to escape work. In any case, I hope developers are inteligent enough to take anything this guy has to say with a grain of salt and realize that while his guild is large, in fact it is the minority of their potential player communities and in no way as the author says himself, a reprsentation of the typical or average guild.
wasnt there a column a little while back warning us all of the dangers of using hyperbole and why it isnt good?
Miniguns...
/sigh yeah, Bullfrog made great games... their destruction by EA makes the NGE look like a tickle.
From my perspective, this will be a new column and not a blog. Why did that occur? We have a number of excellent writers who have earned 'blog' spots but are not 'guest writers'? Paragus, Teala, Sovrath (who doesn't have a blog but should IMO). These folks have proven track records within the community. Why not something from them?
I personally don't care a whit about the Syndicate. . What does matter is self-aggrandizement. We could have had a new writer (guest if you will) without the grand announcements of 'CEO of the Syndicate' and '1200 members unlike the misquoted # here on this very site'....blah, blah, blah. Just write without the self-promotion.
I suppose the 'spin' argument to my issue would be that a CEO of the oldest 'Virtual Community' on the web with only 6-8 members of 1200 leaving per year would be a true success story and know everything there is to know. (Apparently 85% of whom rejoin so they have only lost 18 members over 15 years...) . *blinks* Really?
To the folks who call this group a guild, remember that 'The Syndicate isn't a guild, we are the industry leaders in gaming excellence and the most successful virtual community in the history of online gaming.' By their own definition.
I'll read the articles that are posted but the first time... actually to be generous I'll say the 2nd time, I see something to the extent of 'We at the Syndicate...' it will be the last time I read.
Yes I read that post last night, he was very angry there was no less than 20 expletive's. And yes he was very mad at any of those of us who dared to say anything negative about his guild. In fact we had several of there guild members show up in this thread with anger as well, all but one of them have had their post modded or out right deleted. However that guy was way over the top.
I get it, I understand they love their guild, and they don't want to be dished, It is obvious they are not used to be challenged, something they are going to have to get used to if they are going to stick around here.
It should be interesting to hear what this fellow has to say at his next column, and see the results. I expect more of the same. A lot of disagreement, and a lot of bashing of folks who disagree. It just the way these forums work nowadays.
Disagreement is always warranted and nothing would be acheived without it. The problem with much of the internet is that disagreement often ends up being abusive and argumentative. How many threads do you see that quickly turn in to flame wars? Community is broken, and not just in MMOs. It's a hard thing to fix when so many people are intent on putting wedges in reasonable discussions.
I actually think MMORPG.com don't always help with their modding. They are rather quick to weed out the seriously abusive and inapplicable posts, but they are equally quick to weed out stuff that might well be useful along with editting bits of posts to make threads look disjointed and hard to follow. There was a column a few weeks ago and though I can't recall exactly what it was about, it descended into a bit of a frcas very quickly, though it was never an overly abusive fracas, but just a few people asking someone with blunt and non-constructive posts to elaborate a bit. The mods ripped the thread to bits even though there were some good points.
Maybe the answer to building communities is to help ourselves. Weed out the bad element and support the good. Just don't be so destructive at weeding out the bad that the whole place descends in to a fracas.
I guess control is one thing this Dragon guy can teach us. He must have had his moments where he has needed to resolve disputes and he's obviously done a good job at that. How do you maintain a peaceful community without coming across as a dictator?
Of course maybe we're in a losing battle already. It's often in the press over here in the UK that society and community are wrecked. If it's like that in the big, wide world, then what hope do MMO communities have?
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The hostile posts that the mods deleted that purported to be from "Syndicate members" were merely trolls attempting to stir up controversy and make the members of The Syndicate look bad. The kind of people we recruit do not engage in hostile posts, name calling and trolling. There are also guild rules prohibiting that kind of conduct that results in loss of membership if its broken.
The suggestions on topics for this series were collected and passed to Dragons. Thank you for posting those.
The Syndicate