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Is the MMORPG genre dying?
describable
Member UncommonPosts: 407
WoW cata was fun, for you know 3 days after you did 80-85 and felt the dungeon content was just "meh", the daily content was laughable, and there were more hotfixes than WAR's had content. There just never felt enough, i did some 1-60 "new" content, but a lot of that was repeated quests from before, with an added twist. It didn't feel like you were playing an MMORPG. It felt like you were playing a shitty single player game. (it did, if you solo a lot you expect a challenge. There's none in WoW until maybe the dungeons for a couple of days before you realise it's all you'll ever see).
Rift - PvE game. Some good PvE even if the fact the two factions are at war for hypocritial and stupid reasons. The whole worlds ending, quick lets have a war! I'm sorry the lore on this game is so badly rehashed it makes Auto Assault seem believeable. Pretty sure they forgot to feed the PvP guy after launch 
Even WAR when deserpate and started coming out with "world events" like candy, had a few "warfront" type things to throw in. (well one, a factory type one.. but still, ones pretty good). World Events are just same content redone in order to fool people it's "new", i'm sorry it's half asses and desperate. And with PvP in Rift pretty much non existent in any shape or form, i doubt it'll survive long. LoTRO did it better and that went free to play.
LotRO - still the best PvE game out there. It's graphically good, it's fun.. the thing that stops me playing it - i don't like free to play models. i don't like item shops. I just think it's detrimental to the whole genre.
WAR - still the best PvP game out there (not including full loot games, which is hardcore PvP) unfortunately finding people is well, next to impossible. Peak time in Europe Tier 1 you'll have 9 people fighting over the PvP area. No scenarios for 20 minutes at a time. And the PvE content that you can do as you wait is... non existent in places. Tier 2-3 are worse, if you believe it, and at the moment tier 4 is just broken. A gank fest of funny proportions.
GW - best arena combat, spectator mode. Does everything right, unlike WoW with arena.
Best communities - EvE and Fallen Earth. Eve is very niche, i'm one of the ones who played the old tutorial and still have nightmares. Whereas Fallen Earth is just clunky, a few days playing with those animations will put anyone off. Even if i enjoyed the game and the graphics (especially when they redone a lot) wasn't too bad. Animations and clunky combat.. puts you off.
EQ2 - SoE. need i say more, even the latest battlegrounds idea had me laughing. (and they have planetside and everquest "next" being ready for PC/PS3 release)
Most new MMORPGs or some of the older ones like the poor PoTBS (which i ravaged at one point as "deplorable", and within 3 months of me leaving, half the servers were stopped, and another 2 followed shortly afterwards. Now free to play. Problem with free to play is well.... for another time, but there's so many. And so few quality. Even surprised me DCUO was subscription model, when it reminded me more of "champions online" than "CoH/CoV".
Unlike WoW, most MMO's peak at what 500,000 subs if they're lucky but will live off 50,000-200,000 unless they go free to play and keep the idiots paying through the nose for things they'll never need (a la the farmville method). I'd love to see the statistics now of people who leave MMORPGS for no new ones. They just move onto console and PC games, which feature more DLC nowadays than some MMORPG companies can get out (hiya Bioware Mythic... hey that's a dig at you).
The genre is dying, there's nothing new.. nothing that hasn't been done before, a month of Rift will teach people that. Nothing dynamic or game changing. Nothing challenging. The mobs at level 1 are the same at level 238388. No new tactics needed, just hit a couple of buttons instead of one. It;s pretty much what it boils down too.
Other genres are just as bad in video game terms, but last time i checked dragons age 2 (a highly rushed, bugged and poor graphically game) still sold well. Even Crysis 2 a travisty of a game if you played the original on the PC. Still sold substantially well (and i quite like the console version compared to other console FPS's).
Sometimes i just wish developers of MMORPGs could band together and create something fantastic instead of what they're doing just now....
Focusing on one aspect (like PvE, Crafting, PvP etc). Putting a little of the other aspects into the game. And then trying to sell it off as a WHOLE GAME. I'm sorry, in the current MMORPG market you have to cater for a variety of players to be successful. - it's a BUSINESS. And should be treated as such, therefore you don't make the game YOU want. You make the game the PLAYERS WILL PLAY.
Something developers still haven't quite gotten used too, keep to your vision, and stick to your guns. But if you haven't got a bit of everything instead of focusing soley on one aspect of the game. it's going to fail. And it's going to fail badly.
Self inflicted when MMORPGS fail. I have no sympathy.
"nothing actually matters, we're just slightly evolved monkeys clinging to a dying piece of rock hurtling through space waiting for our eventual death." - Frankie Boyle, Mock The Week
Comments
I feel the same as you do, every mmorpg old and new get me bored pretty fast...
They must invent a new sort of mmorpg, i mean i bought Rift, got high hopes, and one month later, guess what?
I am bored!!!! Kill xxx this, gather xxx that..
I really seen a lot of mmorp's and mostly are all the same..
From themepark (WoW/Lotro/DDO/WAR/Aion), etc etc to Sandbox (Darkfall/ MO) etc etc..
Come on developers, reinvent the wheel!!!
Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before.
Edgar Allan Poe
it may be that many of us have played these games for years. A lot of us wax nostolgic about UP, EQ etc, knowing that they were fresh ideas when they were released. It's like a pizza, after the second slice, you want to puke. There isn't much variance in these games because , what else can you comoe up with? How many of us want to be dropped into a world with no quests, all PvP, and littl story line? It is what it is. The funny part is this forum caters to those of us who love MMORPG's, you're not going to find your average player on here. Most of us have becom hypercritical to the point where it's pointless even reading the multitude of "how many are bored with Rift?". "AION sucks", "Warhammer is empty" threads. Fortunately, the majority of gamers do not come here, they're too busy working, going to school or playing the games they enjoy. Maybe it's time to stop playing these types of games, take a break, try another like GW2, I'm sure you'll see GW2 sucks two weeks after release, it never fails.
Making games for people who don't play games.
Seems the OP post has more to do with a list of complaints about what you dislike about current MMORPG rather than a question re: the genre. But the short answer is : no.
Internet accessibility and speeds will only continue to improve. What used to be hardcore enthusiast activities like downloading music online from Napster and Kazzah have become the norm with online music store distribution methods such as iTunes store. More "recently", TV and movies are also now being distributed online. Online gaming tho, is still much in it's infancy, thanks partly due to latency issues with servers and global distribution of the player base. But as technology improves, only more games will be taken online, not less.
FPS as a genre really have reached it's innovation limits; the only thing left is to make a truly MMOFPS where u can have a real virtual battlefield, but again that's not anything innovative, and is really only not possible today due to the aforementioned server/latency issues. RPGs therefore hold grounds to have the most innovations.
What might happen is that MMORPGs in their current format in terms of gameplay and mechanics will die and evolve, but not the genre as a whole.
It is odd to me how people complain that they want something different and innovative but then either they can't describe what they want or some other game already has what they want and they didn't seem to realize it.
It is also odd to me how players get bored, see other people get bored and then assume MMORPGs are going the way of the dodo.
People seem to forget that humans are still having babies. For every bored player ditching the genre, some kid hit the magic age where his parents let him play his first MMORPG and he plays for years.
The genre won't die because the population of potential players keeps growing or renewing itself.
No, the MMORPG genre is not dying.
For those of us who played when UO, EQ and AC came out, we see the changes over the years. The innovations. Incremental changes over the years. And the games will continue to evolve and change.
There.
Hence why I've gone back to playing singleplayer RPGs.
Nothing beats Fallout 3 (or New Vegas if you prefer that) or Oblivion (or Morrowind/older elderscrolls if you prefer that). My Oblivion world literally beats Rift in world size. By a long shot...Rift has a tiny world. It may even rival one WoW continent. Why is my Oblivion world so big? Well because of all the mods! I haven't taken the time it takes to compare world sizes, I just play to have fun...but my Oblivion world is huge.
If old SWG was still around (well actually it is, but I can't post about it) I would be playing that...or if there was an updated Asheron's Call or an updated Ultima Online...I would be still playing MMOs full time. As it is, I just casually (very casually) play LOTRO because it is the best modern MMO out...that is PvE...
Sadly, all new sandbox/open world games (well Fallen Earth, I'll go into a bit of detail on that) are PvP focused...great for some, but I'm a PvEr...not a raider either, I prefer making rare items by CRAFTING...or exploring and finding rare stuff.
As for FE...it isn't post apocalyptic at all...it is lame. EVERY item can be bought from the merchant. I tried selling a crafted item and someone said (exact words) "wtf? You are selling that for 50 extra chips, you can buy that cheaper on the merchant...NOOB!"...I quit and have never been back. Along with having to grind for AP, though I guess they fixed that? That wasn't really my only problem. Sorry, but Fallout 3 actually does a GOOD post apocalyptic world...well, if you mod it that is...my FO3 gameplay mod makes everything really rare (medicine/stimpaks/food/ammo/weapons, etc) among other challenges, and I have to eat/sleep/drink to survive and stuff. Some may not like that, but that is what I want to do when I play a post apocalyptic game. I want it to...you know...actually feel like I'm trying to survive in a post apoc world.
Then there is Oblivion...better than most MMOs and RPGs in general (well, especially modded, only RPG "FOR ME" that rivals it is Fallout 3)....my Oblivion is so much fun. I can add races (I only add ones that actually fit with the Elder Scrolls lore)...add tons of new land...add lots of quests. I can turn Oblivion into a game that fits ME...add dungeons...items...etc, list goes on...because of mods.
If I could mod MMOs, I probably would like them more. But I can't do that. I can't add player made races, or player made quests or anything...so I can't turn a MMO into something that fits ME (note that "me" not "you or we"...I doubt a MMO will come out that is specifically for ME...because there is a lot of MMOers that want a MMO that fits THEM...and their MMO/game is different than my game.
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This type of question has been asked since the begining of MMORPG's.
It's not dying, it's just in a repression.
Personally I'm waiting for GW2 and ArcheAge, two games that are bold enough to innovate a now dull genre =]
Most people go through life pretending to be a boss. I go through life pretending I'm not.
tl;dr
I will say there's a decidely lack of innovation regarding gamers reasons why they think the genre is dying. More accurately, they are simply projecting onto the genre that these games are dying for them, and them alone.
Nope not dying and there is no repression either. Just because Western MMOs keep failing does not mean the whole genre is failing.
Nop the mmorpg genre is constantly evolving and following the general trend.
New players today wants shallow games they can play in 15 minute entertainment blocks. Just look at what is on your TV, to see this. They want to be winners and have success but with no efford, they want to zap in and out whenever they feel like it.
Games are just going in that direction. Already on the way are mmorpg games you can play on a mobile device, so you can zap in at any time in your busy (busy doing nothing) life. Short adventures like instanced dungeons, single player directed gameplay, instant gratification.
On top of this comes finances, games are no longer made by enthusiasts but by suits, and that will always show in the game. Whenever a true entusiast makes a good game it is called indie and praised to the sky - Why ? because it was made with love of gaming, not with love of money.
Many good intentions and visions are ruined slowly or abrubtly by the need to make more money.. It is the old piss in your pants to get warm quick, but in the long run you get cold.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
If the MMORPG genre is dying then why is it that this year is shaping up to be one of the greatest years in the MMO genre; with several highly sort after games releasing, or having already released. And these games will likely help expand the mainstream MMO playerbase, which is what really matters, because the current MMO community is so jaded by all the failed recent MMOs.
Look, this time last year I never cared for MMOs and I had never played an MMO before and then I heard about Guild Wars 2 and what innovative concepts the developers were putting into their game that got me & my friends interested. The dynamic events that promote exploration and remove the annoyances of typical questing. The removal of the combat limitation known as the "holy trinity" and replacing it with a simple yet robust system, that's fast-paced and action-orientated. Making it impossible to grief other people, or compete for resources (no ninja looting, or node stealing). Keeping the competition in the Structered PvP and massive World PvP environments. And of course, doing all of this without forcing me to pay them, every damn month.
So the OP and anyone else on this site can claim that the MMORPG genre is dying and you can use all the made up sub numbers/trends you want; but the fact that just news on an innovative MMO has gotten me and many others (from mainstream gaming) interested in this genre, is just proof that there is still life left in this so-called dying genre.
Also... I have played LOTRO and I must say that the game is fun at 1st but beyond a certain point, in the game, it just gets boring & tedious. The OP says that it is the best PvE MMO but what is so great about going from zone to zone killing the same bloody critters (spiders, wolfs, bears, etc.), with only a few main quest scattered in-between? Also due to the nature of the free2play, the game's community is incredibly segregated. I've been playing it for a while and haven't spent a penny, yet with my 2 lvl 30+ characters I've managed to grind enough points to purchase the Evendim and Angmar packs that will get me to lvl 50+ however my friends have got different quest packs, so I can't quest with them. So what's so great about a PvE heavy MMO that won't allow me to quest with my friends?
Yes it's dieing. that's why the mmorpg population went from like 1 million back in the day to like 30 million nowaday. I made up those number but why is it dieing if more and more people are playing mmorpg...
Silly question. Of course it's dying. After all there is only more money being spent on development, more people playing, more games being developed, more payment models being tried, and more fantastic games in the not too distant future that may be a bit different than at any other point in this genre's history.
So duh whenever something is growing it is natural and completely logical to assume that it is dying at the same time.
/sarcasm off
Sheesh.
Venge
true
making role playing games for people who dont play role playing games.
Generation P
Gosh you guys are all so harsh....
The OP is asking probably a valid question, it's kindly like the Roman's asking if their civilization was dying.
2011 A.D, the short answer is yes, the Roman civilization died ages ago, the longer answer is that our current civilization is based on a dilution and amalgamation of all the great civilizations that have come to pass.
The MMORPG genre can die even with greater player numbers and more corporate investment, just as even as the Roman influence spread throughout the world, their actual core civilization died. More people these days are online simply by virtue of progression of technology and increased affordability of fast internet. I mean I still remembered the days when I had to head to the local LAN / internet cafe to play Counterstrike online because I couldn't afford cable / broadband at home. The increased number of players means that there is going to be more corporate investment into online gaming simply because there is now a profitable market. Unfortunately this might mean more investment into the readily play-out-of-the-box online multiplayer games, which may / maynot have a significant RPG element.... the genre can still die.
I'm not saying I think it will, I've already posted to the contrary.... but I think you're all being a bit unnecessarily harsh.
"mmorpgs" are moving into new territories:
1. Mobile MMOs eg pocket legends, World of Magic, Empire Online, Yslandia, Seven Swords, Graal Online & incoming:
Blackstar, Order & Chaos, World of Midgard, World of Dragons, Shadow Cities, Dungeon defenders, Highland Warrior, Anrufen. Browser MMOs will continue to improve in quality also.
2. SWTOR is one of if not the most expensive MMO ever made and will attract "non-mmo" players such as SW fans; single-player rpg Bioware fans etc. In fact YOY I believe MMO revenues are increasing especially as more players come online.
3. Pricing diversification (in the West) with P2P, B2P (eg GW2) and F2P and hybrids.
4. Personally I will be looking out for B* (Freemium on mobile), GW2 (B2P) and Firefall (F2P). All should be quality and for amazing prices. Risk of a let-down is drastically alleviated and hope for a decent game improved by all the new titles.
5. Between 2011-12 there will be plenty of AAA releases that show potential and WoW and EvE and all the other MMOs still available or going F2P.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Thats true thier experimenting with new ways to bring in cash, but you gotta remember that they've been trying to reach the console market. This browser and FTP model is something they are more than likely going to be putting on Xbox or PS3 as soon as they can. The PC market is no longer the focus for large gaming companys.
The roman empire took almost a century to die and there were definate signs not the least of which was three different ceasars at the same time and loss of their shipping lanes.
When it was dying it was not growing at all in any way, not size, or population or influence or trade. If something is growing, expanding and causing signicifant interest it is not dying at all. You can't both grow and shrink at the same time (assuming you are talking about the same factor).
Venge
Yes, and that's what I'm saying.
You can't necessarily say that more corporate investment and bigger player base equate to growth of the MMORPG genre, because they are not exactly the same factor.
It's like Apple pouring money into the mid level "smaller than a laptop, but larger than a smartphone" device equating to them supporting the florishing and growth of the netbook... the iPad is a more sophisticated and multi-functional version of the Kindle, and really a device all of its own, but is by no way in design modelled after netbooks.
The Roman Empire died through dilution of it empire margins, from the outsourcing of it's "technologies" and innovation to mixed indigenous outposts which then grew to challenge the empire. The Byzantians, Visigoths and the Celtic-Romans come to mind.
If American / western empire was to fall in 100 years time, and say China was the new superpower, and you went to a store in China and saw Coca Cola, Marlborough and Microsoft Windows in a shop window while you're riding past in a Ford taxi, then what does that mean?
I'm saying you cannot have both a growing player base and a shrinking one. The base is growing therefore the genre is growing. Same with investment, it is growing not shrinking. Same with the number of games - growing not shrinking.
Thats why it is silly to say the genre is dying. All the factors that can be objectively measured are growing not shrinking.
You can say it's changing or even becoming unrecognizable because to a certain extent that is subjective, however growing and shrinking are not.
Venge
edited for spelling, typing with one hand sucks.
Seeing those products would not be indicatie of a fallen empoire but rather an adaptable business.
It isn't dying, it is overrated big time. Non mmos sell better and are better quality. Very rarely do you see a mmo do outrageously well. I think WoW has been the only one so far in 10 years that has made a big splash. Perhaps The Old Republic and Guild Wars 2 can change that.
It's impossible to say.
I would say the only 'real' measure would be the stock price of publishers. Still that only eliminates a few things, not enough to see a trend.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
You can't find a team in a game with 12 million players, you think LOTRO is the best PvE game around and EVE has the best community? What planet are you from and/or been smoking?
Something developers still haven't quite gotten used too, keep to your vision, and stick to your guns. But if you haven't got a bit of everything instead of focusing soley on one aspect of the game. it's going to fail. And it's going to fail badly.
Funny you say this. One developer I know for sure that's sticking to their vision of what they want is Bioware. And no the genre is not dying. Maybe you're just done with it? Might wanna think about that a little.