Therein lies the short and long of it. Not making light of WoW players, I play it also, but rather the need to justify playing it/going back to it as opposed to any other game.
There's no need. If WoW floats your boat more than Rift then by all means play WoW. For all it's faults and on-going problems WoW is successful at what it does for those millions of players that log into it. So play it.
I like Rift right now so I'm playing Rift.... right now. I'll play it right up to the point that it isn't fun any more. And from the groups I run into from Sanctum to Shimmersand (yes, I'm grinding ally faction doing dailies and dropping off gear for artisan marks) I'm not alone. Low level toons (presumably some are not alts and so are new players) to maxed out players. Everything in between.
I don't think I'm going to be alone for awhile yet.
I played Rift before going back to WoW, I did give it a chance. The one thing that killed it for me fast. The sloooooow boring combat and horrible almost non-existent auto attack. If you have such a long GCD, least make auto attack functional. Allow weaving or something. Just don't let it be hit 1, wait a whole second, hit 1 again, wait a whole second, ok now hit 2. There's nothing to change the cadence really. So this is why I didn't bother. Maybe 6 months down the road and a few updates it might appeal better to me but if I'm going to play a WoW-like game, I might as well stick to WoW itself cause Rift to me offered actually less. The trees were illusion to variety, don't care how many choices you got, you still ended up with the basic cookie cutter crap, the crafting was a snoozer and lifeless, the rifts were repetitive and lackluster after you killed 100 of them, dungeons weren't skillful enough, and the leveling was just too easy and fast and didn't immerse the player at all. The only fun I had was on PvP server and one zone event on the enemy side where we wiped them on their event and took their reward.
So my point of getting bored of the game was just faster than yours I guess. Like I said, I'll play WoW for a little while till something better comes out. My 10 man is working on heroic raiding and that is way more fun atm and challenging than anything Rift has to offer atm plus, I have RL friends on WoW atm and some of them actually quit Rift also for same reasons. (maybe down the line 6 mos from now, that might change but at that point I'll be looking in GW2 or SWToR or something, not Rift.)
I almost feel the game was rushed out. I think this time was actually optimal cause there is a gap in MMOs atm. GW2 is stll little ways off, Tera, SWToR, B&S, etc. It was probably a smart move to just push it out regardless of the final product to get what they could in subs cause they would only get a smaller chunk had another MMO or two was released before them.
WoW suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccckkksssss! Rift blows WoW out of the water, but then again so does almost every other mmo lol.
/facepalm.....yeah WoW sucks huh and Rift blows it out of the water? How does the most polished WoW clone to date blow it out of the water hmmm?
I played the Betas and Rift is nothing but a lil brother of WoW. Rift is nice n pleasing but I'm not going to play a game that is p[retty much a copy of WoW. People who play it are just sick n tired of WoW and are just chilling out in Rift till SWTOR or GW2 plain n simple...at least a real sizable portion is. Once GW2 and SWTOR releases I'll forsee a significant drop of subs or a hugee drop as many are wanting something new an innovative which Rift is way off in the far left field on that while SWTOR is sizeable innovative and GW2 looking to be a true innovative MMO.
Therein lies the short and long of it. Not making light of WoW players, I play it also, but rather the need to justify playing it/going back to it as opposed to any other game.
There's no need. If WoW floats your boat more than Rift then by all means play WoW. For all it's faults and on-going problems WoW is successful at what it does for those millions of players that log into it. So play it.
I like Rift right now so I'm playing Rift.... right now. I'll play it right up to the point that it isn't fun any more. And from the groups I run into from Sanctum to Shimmersand (yes, I'm grinding ally faction doing dailies and dropping off gear for artisan marks) I'm not alone. Low level toons (presumably some are not alts and so are new players) to maxed out players. Everything in between.
I don't think I'm going to be alone for awhile yet.
I played Rift before going back to WoW, I did give it a chance. The one thing that killed it for me fast. The sloooooow boring combat and horrible almost non-existent auto attack. If you have such a long GCD, least make auto attack functional. Allow weaving or something. Just don't let it be hit 1, wait a whole second, hit 1 again, wait a whole second, ok now hit 2. There's nothing to change the cadence really. So this is why I didn't bother. Maybe 6 months down the road and a few updates it might appeal better to me but if I'm going to play a WoW-like game, I might as well stick to WoW itself cause Rift to me offered actually less. The trees were illusion to variety, don't care how many choices you got, you still ended up with the basic cookie cutter crap, the crafting was a snoozer and lifeless, the rifts were repetitive and lackluster after you killed 100 of them, dungeons weren't skillful enough, and the leveling was just too easy and fast and didn't immerse the player at all. The only fun I had was on PvP server and one zone event on the enemy side where we wiped them on their event and took their reward.
So my point of getting bored of the game was just faster than yours I guess. Like I said, I'll play WoW for a little while till something better comes out. My 10 man is working on heroic raiding and that is way more fun atm and challenging than anything Rift has to offer atm plus, I have RL friends on WoW atm and some of them actually quit Rift also for same reasons. (maybe down the line 6 mos from now, that might change but at that point I'll be looking in GW2 or SWToR or something, not Rift.)
I almost feel the game was rushed out. I think this time was actually optimal cause there is a gap in MMOs atm. GW2 is stll little ways off, Tera, SWToR, B&S, etc. It was probably a smart move to just push it out regardless of the final product to get what they could in subs cause they would only get a smaller chunk had another MMO or two was released before them.
WoW suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccckkksssss! Rift blows WoW out of the water, but then again so does almost every other mmo lol.
And thats why Rift and every other mmo is stilling at 10 million+ subscriptions.. Oh wait thats not right.. Hmmm.. Yeah WoW sucks.. Hmm.. ok whatever.
And you think that the more people play, the better the game must be? By those standards, McDonald's has the best food in the world and Avatar is the best film ever made. Popularity does not equal quality.
That's not to say Rift is some amazing game though. Rift and WoW DNA is as similar as human and monkey DNA. Slight differences, very similar when boiled down to the essentials.
Sometimes it does. For example, Terminator 2, The Wall or..yes, WoW.
Actually you're both right. Sometimes something is popular because it is also really that good. Other times something is more popular because it's more accessible, better packaged, better marketted and so on, without necessary having the best quality.
During the event (which was poorly planned) ALL the servers were on high with many FULL and que'd up for hours. Now it was an event and it was a bring a buddy weekend-but 99 servers-on high or full with que's is a pretty impressive sign.
Last night (post event) was running rifts in my "medium/high" server-in Stillmoor-at one point we had over 60 defiant/guardians in our group alone. If the populations are down (and I think they are a bit) it is a relatively minor percentage and I suspect they are acquiring more and more players to make up for some/most of the drop.
As for the precise measurements provided by the troll in this forum-its comical speculation. I would bet that 82% of what he says is innacurate.
Another week and another 7% drop, down to 27% drop since launch after five weeks. weeee
It's interesting to see how people can get pleasure out misery and of gloating on perceived failings of the games and things that other people are still enjoying.
Forumposters often like to say 'haters gonna hate', but maybe it's more the case that pleasure out of gloating is the only pleasure left to them that people like that can get from MMORPG's. Sort of a grinch effect: misery loves company, the 'if I can't have the MMO that I like, then nobody should enjoy or have the MMO that they like' mindset.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Another week and another 7% drop, down to 27% drop since launch after five weeks. weeee
It's interesting to see how people can get pleasure out misery and of gloating on perceived failings of the games and things that other people are still enjoying.
Forumposters often like to say 'haters gonna hate', but maybe it's more the case that pleasure out of gloating is the only pleasure left to them that people like that can get from MMORPG's. Sort of a grinch effect: misery loves company, the 'if I can't have the MMO that I like, then nobody should enjoy or have the MMO that they like' mindset.
Thanks for that psych-evaluation but there is nothing more complicated to it then being sick of WoW clones being churned out and wanting them to fail so that other type of MMORPGs beside WoW clones are produced.
I doubt that my post here will contribute to it failing, or people not enjoying it, but thanks for thinking I have that power.
The big thing is that people have leveled and are in the high end areas, I know that when i was in gloamwood seemed like noone was there, scarwood the same, but in IPP population peaks back up.
Yes, the server is on Medium and heck i do notice the decrease, takes a little longer to get a group moving but still its pretty quick. Questing less competion for the mobs. Overall i think that over the next month or so the population will even out and that will be your subscription base. Most of the Wow people went back to Wow, which is fine, irony is tha tmy guild is mostly ex wowers who have stayed (granted we are all older 30 plus) and I think that helps as the server itself does not have bad chat other than the 1-9 levle. once out of that channel everything is great.
Do you really think even if rift fails that this would change how the industry sees things? The themepark fantasy MMO will dominate for a very long time no matter how many games fail. Investors and developers will always look at WoW's success not other games failures.
I didn't like and do not play Rift but hoping for the game to fail is just plain stupid considering it will not change the future of MMO development at all.
Do you really think even if rift fails that this would change how the industry sees things? The themepark fantasy MMO will dominate for a very long time no matter how many games fail. Investors and developers will always look at WoW's success not other games failures.
I didn't like and do not play Rift but hoping for the game to fail is just plain stupid considering it will not change the future of MMO development at all.
No, not only Rift. But if AoC, WAR, DCU and Rift fails then maybe some people will start having second thoughts about making a WoW clone Themepark.
Your assumption that investors will only look at WoW and not at WoW clones, when making a WoW clone, is assuming that investors are pretty dumb. I dont think they are.
Thanks for that psych-evaluation but there is nothing more complicated to it then being sick of WoW clones being churned out and wanting them to fail so that other type of MMORPGs beside WoW clones are produced.
Well, as you admit yourself I was pretty spot on with that evaluation, right? It's finding enjoyment in seeing and wishing for other MMO's that aren't to your taste to fail; even if other MMO gamers are enjoying them you'd still hope those MMO's you dislike die since there aren't any MMO's around of the type that you like to play, at least not enough and none that you love to play now. Like I said, grinching on MMO's, 'because you don't like Christmas'
In general I find that hoping for MMO's to fail that aren't someone's type is a petty wish though and shows some genuine selfishness, the wish to see MMO's that other people are enjoying to fail just because they aren't to someone's taste.
And it's unwarranted: there are enough other types of MMO's around, and certainly the case that enough other types of MMO's are upcoming besides typically WoW styled: GW2, TSW, ArcheAge, Firefall, Planetside Next, Black Prophecy, WoD, all in the next 1-2 years.
Originally posted by ranknvileLOTRO - Down 10%
Aion - Down 6%
WoW- Down 9%
Basically EVERY game except Final Fantasy XIV (yup...funny eh?) were down.
The one game which was considered a huge failure due to no revenue and low sub counts is up this week.
Weird how that works....but, please, gloss over this bit of data. I will pick up the slack for you on my blog where the real facts hide.
Your blog post is interesting, I disagree with this conclusion in your blog:
Looking at the chart, you get to see something I have seen before. A mass exodus of X-Fire players. Thats right, when we see loss across the board like this, we pretty much have people uninstalling X-Fire, and moving on.
I checked the total XFire hours over the weeks, and there isn't that much change at all, no mass exodus of XFire players. It may be that XFire players are playing other games than those MMO's though, the numbers getting more spread out.
Generally I find the EVE numbers as an indicator works pretty good, since those numbers are usually pretty solid because of the sub numbers being pretty solid, EVE's playerbase hovering around 350-360k.
It's interesting to see though how WoW has dropped like 30% since Feb 20th, that's a huge number. I wonder if that trend will continue or stabilise.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Your blog post is interesting, I disagree with this conclusion in your blog:
Looking at the chart, you get to see something I have seen before. A mass exodus of X-Fire players. Thats right, when we see loss across the board like this, we pretty much have people uninstalling X-Fire, and moving on.
I checked the total XFire hours over the weeks, and there isn't that much change at all, no mass exodus of XFire players. It may be that XFire players are playing other games than those MMO's though, the numbers getting more spread out.
Generally I find the EVE numbers as an indicator works pretty good, since those numbers are usually pretty solid because of the sub numbers being pretty solid, EVE's playerbase hovering around 350-360k.
It's interesting to see though how WoW has dropped like 30% since Feb 20th, that's a huge number. I wonder if that trend will continue or stabilise.
Actually there is anecdotal evidence to show continued loss in X-Fire "players" (not time played, but actual bodies logging the client in)
A post from when I first started perusing the X-Fire charts; Trending Popularity
Note LOTRO has over 2800 "players" in this listing from 2008 and ranked #20 on the X-Fire chart (their chart and not my numbering). If you go look today, LOTRO has almost 1900 (so cloes to 1000 less players) and is ranked #19...
Basically it took less X-Fire players to rank higher on the X-Fire charts.
Even worse, we can see Warhammer Online, and the beginning of it's decline on X-Fire. It was the #2 most popular MMO at the time and was only #14 on the X-Fire chart with 4686 players in 2008. Now, Rift can rank #7 on X-Fires rankings with only 3900+ players.
There is, without a doubt, a major loss of people using the X-Fire client compared to 2008, and this current loss could be the next wave of people uninstalling.
Thanks for that psych-evaluation but there is nothing more complicated to it then being sick of WoW clones being churned out and wanting them to fail so that other type of MMORPGs beside WoW clones are produced.
Well, as you admit yourself I was pretty spot on with that evaluation, right? It's finding enjoyment in seeing and wishing for other MMO's that aren't to your taste to fail; even if other MMO gamers are enjoying them you'd still hope those MMO's you dislike die since there aren't any MMO's around of the type that you like to play, at least not enough and none that you love to play now. Like I said, grinching on MMO's, 'because you don't like Christmas'
In general I find that hoping for MMO's to fail that aren't someone's type is a petty wish though and shows some genuine selfishness, the wish to see MMO's that other people are enjoying to fail just because they aren't to someone's taste.
And it's unwarranted: there are enough other types of MMO's around, and certainly the case that enough other types of MMO's are upcoming besides typically WoW styled: GW2, TSW, ArcheAge, Firefall, Planetside Next, Black Prophecy, WoD, all in the next 1-2 years.
Originally posted by ranknvileLOTRO - Down 10%
Aion - Down 6%
WoW- Down 9%
Basically EVERY game except Final Fantasy XIV (yup...funny eh?) were down.
The one game which was considered a huge failure due to no revenue and low sub counts is up this week.
Weird how that works....but, please, gloss over this bit of data. I will pick up the slack for you on my blog where the real facts hide.
Your blog post is interesting, I disagree with this conclusion in your blog:
Looking at the chart, you get to see something I have seen before. A mass exodus of X-Fire players. Thats right, when we see loss across the board like this, we pretty much have people uninstalling X-Fire, and moving on.
I checked the total XFire hours over the weeks, and there isn't that much change at all, no mass exodus of XFire players. It may be that XFire players are playing other games than those MMO's though, the numbers getting more spread out.
Generally I find the EVE numbers as an indicator works pretty good, since those numbers are usually pretty solid because of the sub numbers being pretty solid, EVE's playerbase hovering around 350-360k.
It's interesting to see though how WoW has dropped like 30% since Feb 20th, that's a huge number. I wonder if that trend will continue or stabilise.
Yes, a huge number...I know when I wak into Stormwind it is a GHOST TOWN...except you know, ALL the people there...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Sometimes it does. For example, Terminator 2, The Wall or..yes, WoW.
Actually you're both right. Sometimes something is popular because it is also really that good. Other times something is more popular because it's more accessible, better packaged, better marketted and so on, without necessary having the best quality.
I didn't say that all things that are popular suck. I said that just because something is popular, it still could be good or bad. Michael Jackson was popular, the Beatles were popular, and they were both amazing. The Jonas Brothers and Justin Bieber are also popular, and they are terrible.
Rift being popular as a reason why the game is good, like someone said earlier in the thread, is completely useless as evidence and has no value. Popularity doesn't inherently equal good.
It's interesting to see though how WoW has dropped like 30% since Feb 20th, that's a huge number. I wonder if that trend will continue or stabilise.
Yes, a huge number...I know when I wak into Stormwind it is a GHOST TOWN...except you know, ALL the people there...
I fail to see the relevance to my post of this.
Unless you've counted all the players in Stormwind now and 1-2 months ago and noticed that they're the same, then you went ahead to do the same for dozens of servers, from low to high populated, to see if that observation held true for those servers as well.
Originally posted by ranknvile
Actually there is anecdotal evidence to show continued loss in X-Fire "players" (not time played, but actual bodies logging the client in)
A post from when I first started perusing the X-Fire charts; Trending Popularity
Note LOTRO has over 2800 "players" in this listing from 2008 and ranked #20 on the X-Fire chart (their chart and not my numbering). If you go look today, LOTRO has almost 1900 (so cloes to 1000 less players) and is ranked #19...
Basically it took less X-Fire players to rank higher on the X-Fire charts.
Even worse, we can see Warhammer Online, and the beginning of it's decline on X-Fire. It was the #2 most popular MMO at the time and was only #14 on the X-Fire chart with 4686 players in 2008. Now, Rift can rank #7 on X-Fires rankings with only 3900+ players.
There is, without a doubt, a major loss of people using the X-Fire client compared to 2008, and this current loss could be the next wave of people uninstalling.
Nice link I already had your blog bookmarked though for future reference and comparison from some time before.
I read as well that XFire was losing users over the course of time. I'm sure that it happens over the course of years, but the period that we're talking about is the last month or 2 or so. In that time the number of users of various MMO's may have decreased, but not the total number of XFire users.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Thanks for that psych-evaluation but there is nothing more complicated to it then being sick of WoW clones being churned out and wanting them to fail so that other type of MMORPGs beside WoW clones are produced.
Well, as you admit yourself I was pretty spot on with that evaluation, right? It's finding enjoyment in seeing and wishing for other MMO's that aren't to your taste to fail; even if other MMO gamers are enjoying them you'd still hope those MMO's you dislike die since there aren't any MMO's around of the type that you like to play, at least not enough and none that you love to play now. Like I said, grinching on MMO's, 'because you don't like Christmas'
No, you were dead wrong. I dont "hate" Rift or themeparks, that would indicate some emotional involvement. I simply want them to fail for pure practical purposes so that, eventually, casual themeparks are not the only type of AAA games being released.
More over fail and die are not the same thing. I dont mind themeparks being produced but I do mind ONLY themeparks being produced. So if casual themepark MMORPGs are being produced as well as more hardcore virtual world variants that is all good. Problem is thats not the case as nine out of ten released MMORPGs are casual themeparks and those that are not are severly underfunded.
Seems to me that you are listening to what you want to hear and draw your own conclusions in a silly attempt to vilify me rather than what I am saying. So drop it as I am not personally insulting someones person here, like you are.
It's interesting to see though how WoW has dropped like 30% since Feb 20th, that's a huge number. I wonder if that trend will continue or stabilise.
Yes, a huge number...I know when I wak into Stormwind it is a GHOST TOWN...except you know, ALL the people there...
I fail to see the relevance to my post of this.
Unless you've counted all the players in Stormwind now and 1-2 months ago and noticed that they're the same, then you went ahead to do the same for dozens of servers, from low to high populated, to see if that observation held true for those servers as well.
Originally posted by ranknvile
Actually there is anecdotal evidence to show continued loss in X-Fire "players" (not time played, but actual bodies logging the client in)
A post from when I first started perusing the X-Fire charts; Trending Popularity
Note LOTRO has over 2800 "players" in this listing from 2008 and ranked #20 on the X-Fire chart (their chart and not my numbering). If you go look today, LOTRO has almost 1900 (so cloes to 1000 less players) and is ranked #19...
Basically it took less X-Fire players to rank higher on the X-Fire charts.
Even worse, we can see Warhammer Online, and the beginning of it's decline on X-Fire. It was the #2 most popular MMO at the time and was only #14 on the X-Fire chart with 4686 players in 2008. Now, Rift can rank #7 on X-Fires rankings with only 3900+ players.
There is, without a doubt, a major loss of people using the X-Fire client compared to 2008, and this current loss could be the next wave of people uninstalling.
Nice link I already had your blog bookmarked though for future reference and comparison from some time before.
I read as well that XFire was losing users over the course of time. I'm sure that it happens over the course of years, but the period that we're talking about is the last month or 2 or so. In that time the number of users of various MMO's may have decreased, but not the total number of XFire users.
i dont know.. its a valid point really, the fact that already, very few people actually use X-Fire (the advantages of having X-fire on a PC has been questionable for quite a while now) so that the fraction of the MMO population that even have it installed.. is negligible.. so trying to prove anything with them is ... a bit like juggling with jelly.. wobbly at best.. and messy at worst..and its probably not even strawberry.... ...arguments about X-fire go on and on.. and prove nothing.. it really is a pointless application these days... i don't understand why people seem to be set on trying to legitimize it..
i dont know.. its a valid point really, the fact that already, very few people actually use X-Fire (the advantages of having X-fire on a PC has been questionable for quite a while now) so that the fraction of the MMO population that even have it installed.. is negligible.. so trying to prove anything with them is ... a bit like juggling with jelly.. wobbly at best.. and messy at worst..and its probably not even strawberry.... ...arguments about X-fire go on and on.. and prove nothing.. it really is a pointless application these days... i don't understand why people seem to be set on trying to legitimize it..
Oh, I'm the first to say that applications like XFire, Raptr , Steam, and even ingame server headcounts have limited value and that you can't draw any hard conclusions on them. To completely dismiss them as 100% irrelevant is the other extreme, especially since in market research and (scientifc or election) surveys often samples of even a smaller size are used.
Personally, I don't understand why people seem to be set on trying so hard to disprove them as totally meaningless, I don't think that both extremes, 100% true or 100% false/meaningless, are right.
Like I already stated in my thread about actual MMO worldsizes when people said 'why even bother?', either you're interested in figures and statistics and that kind of stuff or you're not. When you're interested in that kind of stuff, then XFire, Raptr, Steam and ingame headcounts and servers status are the best ways to get an idea of MMO related figures.
Outside of official statements regarding PCU or subs and such of course, but we all know how often that happens.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Thanks for that psych-evaluation but there is nothing more complicated to it then being sick of WoW clones being churned out and wanting them to fail so that other type of MMORPGs beside WoW clones are produced.
Well, as you admit yourself I was pretty spot on with that evaluation, right? It's finding enjoyment in seeing and wishing for other MMO's that aren't to your taste to fail; even if other MMO gamers are enjoying them you'd still hope those MMO's you dislike die since there aren't any MMO's around of the type that you like to play, at least not enough and none that you love to play now. Like I said, grinching on MMO's, 'because you don't like Christmas'
No, you were dead wrong. I dont "hate" Rift or themeparks, that would indicate some emotional involvement. I simply want them to fail for pure practical purposes so that, eventually, casual themeparks are not the only type of AAA games being released.
More over fail and die are not the same thing. I dont mind themeparks being produced but I do mind ONLY themeparks being produced. So if casual themepark MMORPGs are being produced as well as more hardcore virtual world variants that is all good. Problem is thats not the case as nine out of ten released MMORPGs are casual themeparks and those that are not are severly underfunded.
Seems to me that you are listening to what you want to hear and draw your own conclusions in a silly attempt to vilify me rather than what I am saying. So drop it as I am not personally insulting someones person here, like you are.
Why on earth would the failure of themepark games make developers decide that an even less successful facet of the MMO genre would be more profitable? All we are going to see if these kinds of games die out is even more paint by numbers FTP cash shop crap games.
The only way a big company can be convinced that we sandbox game lovers matter (aside from all of us starting a company ourselves) is for one of the small indie sandbox games to be an unprecidented success. And since it seems we in the sandbox crowd are too spoiled (myself included) to put up with bugs and low budget games, and instead are waiting for this mystical messiah AAA sandbox title to appear out of thin air, we are going to be lurking in the dark without enlightenment for some time.
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/facepalm.....yeah WoW sucks huh and Rift blows it out of the water? How does the most polished WoW clone to date blow it out of the water hmmm?
I played the Betas and Rift is nothing but a lil brother of WoW. Rift is nice n pleasing but I'm not going to play a game that is p[retty much a copy of WoW. People who play it are just sick n tired of WoW and are just chilling out in Rift till SWTOR or GW2 plain n simple...at least a real sizable portion is. Once GW2 and SWTOR releases I'll forsee a significant drop of subs or a hugee drop as many are wanting something new an innovative which Rift is way off in the far left field on that while SWTOR is sizeable innovative and GW2 looking to be a true innovative MMO.
And you think that the more people play, the better the game must be? By those standards, McDonald's has the best food in the world and Avatar is the best film ever made. Popularity does not equal quality.
That's not to say Rift is some amazing game though. Rift and WoW DNA is as similar as human and monkey DNA. Slight differences, very similar when boiled down to the essentials.
Sometimes it does. For example, Terminator 2, The Wall or..yes, WoW.
Actually you're both right. Sometimes something is popular because it is also really that good. Other times something is more popular because it's more accessible, better packaged, better marketted and so on, without necessary having the best quality.
Another week and another 7% drop, down to 27% drop since launch after five weeks. weeee
My gaming blog
Another week and another baseless speculation? This is fun. Can you do one more?
WoW just lost 45% omgz.!
During the event (which was poorly planned) ALL the servers were on high with many FULL and que'd up for hours. Now it was an event and it was a bring a buddy weekend-but 99 servers-on high or full with que's is a pretty impressive sign.
Last night (post event) was running rifts in my "medium/high" server-in Stillmoor-at one point we had over 60 defiant/guardians in our group alone. If the populations are down (and I think they are a bit) it is a relatively minor percentage and I suspect they are acquiring more and more players to make up for some/most of the drop.
As for the precise measurements provided by the troll in this forum-its comical speculation. I would bet that 82% of what he says is innacurate.
Sure, wait for next week. Probably break the 33% barrier by then.
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It's interesting to see how people can get pleasure out misery and of gloating on perceived failings of the games and things that other people are still enjoying.
Forumposters often like to say 'haters gonna hate', but maybe it's more the case that pleasure out of gloating is the only pleasure left to them that people like that can get from MMORPG's. Sort of a grinch effect: misery loves company, the 'if I can't have the MMO that I like, then nobody should enjoy or have the MMO that they like' mindset.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
you still working this eh?
eh you have your lil crusade and have fun posting stuff about numbers in a game you have no interest in playing.
I'll keep playing a game I find fun and enjoyable.
Thanks for that psych-evaluation but there is nothing more complicated to it then being sick of WoW clones being churned out and wanting them to fail so that other type of MMORPGs beside WoW clones are produced.
I doubt that my post here will contribute to it failing, or people not enjoying it, but thanks for thinking I have that power.
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The big thing is that people have leveled and are in the high end areas, I know that when i was in gloamwood seemed like noone was there, scarwood the same, but in IPP population peaks back up.
Yes, the server is on Medium and heck i do notice the decrease, takes a little longer to get a group moving but still its pretty quick. Questing less competion for the mobs. Overall i think that over the next month or so the population will even out and that will be your subscription base. Most of the Wow people went back to Wow, which is fine, irony is tha tmy guild is mostly ex wowers who have stayed (granted we are all older 30 plus) and I think that helps as the server itself does not have bad chat other than the 1-9 levle. once out of that channel everything is great.
Artorus Giltanus - Ranger EQ1 Retired
Arturien - 90 Deathknight WoW
Do you really think even if rift fails that this would change how the industry sees things? The themepark fantasy MMO will dominate for a very long time no matter how many games fail. Investors and developers will always look at WoW's success not other games failures.
I didn't like and do not play Rift but hoping for the game to fail is just plain stupid considering it will not change the future of MMO development at all.
No, not only Rift. But if AoC, WAR, DCU and Rift fails then maybe some people will start having second thoughts about making a WoW clone Themepark.
Your assumption that investors will only look at WoW and not at WoW clones, when making a WoW clone, is assuming that investors are pretty dumb. I dont think they are.
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LOTRO - Down 10%
Aion - Down 6%
WoW- Down 9%
Basically EVERY game except Final Fantasy XIV (yup...funny eh?) were down.
The one game which was considered a huge failure due to no revenue and low sub counts is up this week.
Weird how that works....but, please, gloss over this bit of data. I will pick up the slack for you on my blog where the real facts hide.
This weeks X-Fire game!
http://simple-n-complex.blogspot.com/2011/04/x-fire-game-brought-to-you-by-letters-f.html
Well, as you admit yourself I was pretty spot on with that evaluation, right? It's finding enjoyment in seeing and wishing for other MMO's that aren't to your taste to fail; even if other MMO gamers are enjoying them you'd still hope those MMO's you dislike die since there aren't any MMO's around of the type that you like to play, at least not enough and none that you love to play now. Like I said, grinching on MMO's, 'because you don't like Christmas'
In general I find that hoping for MMO's to fail that aren't someone's type is a petty wish though and shows some genuine selfishness, the wish to see MMO's that other people are enjoying to fail just because they aren't to someone's taste.
And it's unwarranted: there are enough other types of MMO's around, and certainly the case that enough other types of MMO's are upcoming besides typically WoW styled: GW2, TSW, ArcheAge, Firefall, Planetside Next, Black Prophecy, WoD, all in the next 1-2 years.
Your blog post is interesting, I disagree with this conclusion in your blog:
Looking at the chart, you get to see something I have seen before. A mass exodus of X-Fire players. Thats right, when we see loss across the board like this, we pretty much have people uninstalling X-Fire, and moving on.
I checked the total XFire hours over the weeks, and there isn't that much change at all, no mass exodus of XFire players. It may be that XFire players are playing other games than those MMO's though, the numbers getting more spread out.
Generally I find the EVE numbers as an indicator works pretty good, since those numbers are usually pretty solid because of the sub numbers being pretty solid, EVE's playerbase hovering around 350-360k.
It's interesting to see though how WoW has dropped like 30% since Feb 20th, that's a huge number. I wonder if that trend will continue or stabilise.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Actually there is anecdotal evidence to show continued loss in X-Fire "players" (not time played, but actual bodies logging the client in)
A post from when I first started perusing the X-Fire charts; Trending Popularity
http://simple-n-complex.blogspot.com/2008/12/x-fire-review-trending-popularity.html
Note LOTRO has over 2800 "players" in this listing from 2008 and ranked #20 on the X-Fire chart (their chart and not my numbering). If you go look today, LOTRO has almost 1900 (so cloes to 1000 less players) and is ranked #19...
Basically it took less X-Fire players to rank higher on the X-Fire charts.
Even worse, we can see Warhammer Online, and the beginning of it's decline on X-Fire. It was the #2 most popular MMO at the time and was only #14 on the X-Fire chart with 4686 players in 2008. Now, Rift can rank #7 on X-Fires rankings with only 3900+ players.
There is, without a doubt, a major loss of people using the X-Fire client compared to 2008, and this current loss could be the next wave of people uninstalling.
Yes, a huge number...I know when I wak into Stormwind it is a GHOST TOWN...except you know, ALL the people there...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
I didn't say that all things that are popular suck. I said that just because something is popular, it still could be good or bad. Michael Jackson was popular, the Beatles were popular, and they were both amazing. The Jonas Brothers and Justin Bieber are also popular, and they are terrible.
Rift being popular as a reason why the game is good, like someone said earlier in the thread, is completely useless as evidence and has no value. Popularity doesn't inherently equal good.
I fail to see the relevance to my post of this.
Unless you've counted all the players in Stormwind now and 1-2 months ago and noticed that they're the same, then you went ahead to do the same for dozens of servers, from low to high populated, to see if that observation held true for those servers as well.
Nice link
I already had your blog bookmarked though for future reference and comparison from some time before.
I read as well that XFire was losing users over the course of time. I'm sure that it happens over the course of years, but the period that we're talking about is the last month or 2 or so. In that time the number of users of various MMO's may have decreased, but not the total number of XFire users.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
No, you were dead wrong. I dont "hate" Rift or themeparks, that would indicate some emotional involvement. I simply want them to fail for pure practical purposes so that, eventually, casual themeparks are not the only type of AAA games being released.
More over fail and die are not the same thing. I dont mind themeparks being produced but I do mind ONLY themeparks being produced. So if casual themepark MMORPGs are being produced as well as more hardcore virtual world variants that is all good. Problem is thats not the case as nine out of ten released MMORPGs are casual themeparks and those that are not are severly underfunded.
Seems to me that you are listening to what you want to hear and draw your own conclusions in a silly attempt to vilify me rather than what I am saying. So drop it as I am not personally insulting someones person here, like you are.
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i dont know.. its a valid point really, the fact that already, very few people actually use X-Fire (the advantages of having X-fire on a PC has been questionable for quite a while now) so that the fraction of the MMO population that even have it installed.. is negligible.. so trying to prove anything with them is ... a bit like juggling with jelly.. wobbly at best.. and messy at worst..and its probably not even strawberry.... ...arguments about X-fire go on and on.. and prove nothing.. it really is a pointless application these days... i don't understand why people seem to be set on trying to legitimize it..
Oh, I'm the first to say that applications like XFire, Raptr , Steam, and even ingame server headcounts have limited value and that you can't draw any hard conclusions on them. To completely dismiss them as 100% irrelevant is the other extreme, especially since in market research and (scientifc or election) surveys often samples of even a smaller size are used.
Personally, I don't understand why people seem to be set on trying so hard to disprove them as totally meaningless, I don't think that both extremes, 100% true or 100% false/meaningless, are right.
Like I already stated in my thread about actual MMO worldsizes when people said 'why even bother?', either you're interested in figures and statistics and that kind of stuff or you're not. When you're interested in that kind of stuff, then XFire, Raptr, Steam and ingame headcounts and servers status are the best ways to get an idea of MMO related figures.
Outside of official statements regarding PCU or subs and such of course, but we all know how often that happens.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Why on earth would the failure of themepark games make developers decide that an even less successful facet of the MMO genre would be more profitable? All we are going to see if these kinds of games die out is even more paint by numbers FTP cash shop crap games.
The only way a big company can be convinced that we sandbox game lovers matter (aside from all of us starting a company ourselves) is for one of the small indie sandbox games to be an unprecidented success. And since it seems we in the sandbox crowd are too spoiled (myself included) to put up with bugs and low budget games, and instead are waiting for this mystical messiah AAA sandbox title to appear out of thin air, we are going to be lurking in the dark without enlightenment for some time.
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