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Loot and my concerns with GW2
CzechGuy
Member Posts: 86
So from what i have read this games loot system is pretty standard fare except there will be no Need/greed/pass kind of system which means no competition for items and DKP systems will be completely irrelevant.
Also dungeon gear (and most gear in general) will be purchased with karma points from E-mart vendors in town? Honestly that is not an exciting way to do loot as it becomes nothing more than an unexciting grind where you know exactly when you will require an item.
Will there even be raids? And since gear is basically normalized across the board stat wise why even run anything difficult? Whats the incentive exactly? The everyone is a winner and we all go out for juiceboxes, icecream, and pizza after the game mentality makes for a boring game.
In all honesty this game sounds about as casual as they get. In alot of ways it looks fun but when it comes to loot it seems to be taking a big step back actually. Another welfare gamer system where "epics" drop like candy and everyone is on an even plaing field? Is that what GW2 will be?
God i hope not
Comments
Sorry but the WoW running raid dungeons for half a year hoping to get a loot drop or waiting for your turn or DKP systems all sucked really bad. Glad it's going away.
They also said that your Epeen stroking gear will be cosmetic and not really give you much of an edge. Yay!
My theme song.
Dungeon loot isn't gotten from karma. When you finish a dungeon you get a token which you can turn in for a weapon if you did the story version or a piece of armor if you do one of the explorable modes. You are guaranteed a piece of gear from the duneon so I really don't understand how you think its a grind. This game is also going to be skill>gear so if you don't like being able to be beaten by people who are actually better than you then this game isn't for you.
Edit: In response to your last paragraph, when was the last time you actually did a dungeon for fun rather than hoping for the chance to get a piece of gear? I want to actually play a game for fun for once without worrying about my chances of getting that one piece of gear that will be obsolete in a few levels.
.... what's your problem with a game design where player skill comes into play more than player equipment?
That in and of itself doesn't make it any more or less casual.
It just means that ability and tactics matter more than time spent in the game. The main thing extra time playing the game will gain you is extra practice. Is that such a horrible thing?
I mean... chess is as casual of a game as you get, but that doesn't mean the game is 'easy mode' or something. :T
Moving from loot-based to skill-based isn't a step backwards, unless you consider loot-based systems to be the pinnacle of what gaming can be about.
It's just a sideways step. Some people like loot-based systems, some do not.
GW2 aims to be a good game, not a game that claims to eliminate grind but actually has a longer grind than any other, or a game where gear progression is the only content. GW2 = have fun, go mass PvP and tournament PvP and get some cool looking items.
Looks and skins drive GW economy, I'm sure the same will be true for GW2.
You obviously played wow and not the first guildwars.
The hours that you put into this game will be you getting better at the game for a change, not getting gear to make it so you are better by default. Weird, right?
one of the reasons y guildwars still remain my favorite mmo of all time
First: You get dungeon gear from finishing dungeons (you get something you can trade in to get what you want).
Second: Other gear is obtained through crafting or monster drops as well as karma vendors. You get karma by doing dynamic events.
Third: You won't really be grinding karma points. Gear won't be exclusive to karma vendors. LOTS of things will be sold by karma vendors. Events will give planty of karma points so that if you want specific thing from a vendor then you can save up quite easily.
Forth: Gear score means nothing in GW1, and its unlikely to be too different in GW2. Its there for progressions sake. A big part of what your armor does is to further individualize your appearence, as well as your stats (through the use of insignias).
Fifth: Dungeons are going to be more difficult than normal PvP the first time you do them and even more so the second time. They are about working with your 5 man group to beat stuff that requires teamwork.
Sixth: If your motivation for doing hard stuff, which you doubt will be in the game, is to get good stuff, which you believe will drop like candy, then you are wacked in the head. Hard stuff is done because its fun and challenging for people who like harder content. Gear is NOT what this game is about.
Seventh: Play GW1...you obviously haven't.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
Also the feature the OP is complaining about is thought by most to be the worst End Game content ever devised.
My theme song.
You mean raids?
Worst thing ever devised for endgame content?
lol.
Forgive me my ignorance but aren't raids just dungeons with more people? I really don't understand what makes them so different from regular dungeons other than the amount of people.
You obviously like numbers and having a greater number value of dmg and stats than your adversary. Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 is definitely not for you. These are skill based action MMORPGs, not your sit around and strike the same enemy over and over again , kill, wait to respawn , repeat.
-I am here to perform logic
Oh you mean a traditonal RPG.
So if i hated action-rpg pieces of garbage like DA2 i will also hate guild wars 2?
I don't get it. From what I've seen of both games they are nothing alike.
You can faceroll a dungeon. Endgame raids usually contain mechanics which wipe the raid if it doesn't follow a strict series of coordinated group actions on certain boss fights etc. Generally, endgame raiding requires a high degree of coordination and individual player competence. Hence the qq about raiding.
ps: I hate raiding.
"Speaking haygywaygy or some other gibberish with your mum doesn't make you foreign."
-baff
After all the unwarranted hostile responses i still think this game looks like it will be fun and innovative.
Its just not everything i was hoping for i guess.
The pvp should be a blast though. I just think the PVE is gonna be a bit underwhelming. No raiding is a bad thing.
I guess this will be a huge problem for all the WoW-refugess this game will harbour. It will take a great deal of patients to teach these people that it can actually be fun to do challenging content, without it being a gear-grinding treadmill. Let's just hope they'll be an in-game focus group, to support all these lost souls, who lose their will to progress without having that carrot-on-a-stick to lead their way.
You make fun of the carrot on the stick approach to MMO's but without it what is exactly the incentive?
You can say its "fun" but thats not really a valid answer because its way to broad a term and "fun" is relative to what each individual enjoys. Without a carrot to look foward to this game will offer nothing but what? Leaderboards styled after FPS games?
Whats the point to that again? and how does that differ from anything WoW introduced?
Answer= it doesnt.
GW2 is sadly sounding shallower and shallower. Just like GW1 was. A shallow quasi FPS niche game.
I don't play soccer to get shinier trophies and shoes, I play for the joy of the game and for the personal satisfaction of mastering the skills required to be an excellent soccer player. My approach to mmo's is no different. Chasing ever more powerful pixels with each new expansion is a scam, imo.
"Speaking haygywaygy or some other gibberish with your mum doesn't make you foreign."
-baff
No not raids. But the endless gear grind. GW2 has dungeons and thats not what you were complaining about. You were complaing that you wouldn't be grinding without end for gear. I rather like knowing that I will be rewarded for my time spent rather than leaving anything up to the law of averages. I once got a ticket from a poor gamer asking me if a particular item would drop after x number runs based on the percentile drop rate of said item. I had to explain to the poor guy that it was quite possible that they could kill that mob and run that raid the rest of their life and never even see that drop.
My theme song.
Keep in mind that the information we know could change. They could tweek details about the loot system and they never said there wouldn't be raid content that I have read. As it stands now, they have stated that the dungeons and such will change each time you run them and this makes me excited more than getting a drop from said dungeon. If Anet wants to make a game that puts more focus on the content and not the loot, then I am excited that the team is doing something different. Then again it's all about how you look at it and why you play so to each his own. I play for the adventure, not the epics at the end.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
The incentive is, always has been and always will be the "sense of improvement". I enjoy playing with the harder to use characters in Super Street Fighter 4 (Juri), just to give myself that extra bit of a challenge and what keeps me doing it isn't because I know I'll eventually get some better gear that will help me defeat my opponent. No, I do it because of that "sense of improvement" as I get better at the game and that "sense of improvement" is greater when doing something challenging is required.
The same thing will still be evident in Guild Wars 2 but instead of improving my gear stats, which is what most MMO's rely, GW2 will be more about improving my look, my build and of course my skill. If all you care about is gear then all I can do is feel sorry for you, as you will never enjoy GW2 as much as I will. :P
Thats why I'm looking forward to GW2.
My theme song.
But they will not do what the OP wants and turn the game into a gear-grinding treadmill. Where you do dungeons, raids and PvP, all to get better gear. No, Arenanet will never turn GW2 into that kind of game because that will directly go against their design philosophy. They don't ever want to force people to grind your way to being better then everyone else. That's something that should be determined be skill and level (in WvWvW).
So raids are basically the compensation for the shitty and poorly designed regular dungeons that are usually put in? Go figure.
Ah I love this, so gear apparently is what makes RPG in-depth. Since according to you GW2 is going to be shallow because it does not have a gear grind in it!
Yeah that makes total sense, after all that is why I played Morrowind, Oblivion, Baldur’s gate 1 & 2, Icewind dale, Knights of the Old Republic, Planescape Torment, Mass Effect, Star Wars Galaxies Pre-NGE, DAOC, and D&D with my friends; it was all for the phat lootz. It is not possible that people could play those games so they can hang out with friends or for the challenge of the game. It has to be the loot, or a game is shallow!
I am so glad everyone has to think like you, and it all has to be about the gear, or they are a shallow person. People definitely should not like games for challenge, it all has to be about the loot reward at the end.
Don’t tell him that, otherwise there will be post all over the web about how shallow soccer is. Oh my god, soccer does not have loots, it is so stupid, how can anyone play anything without lootz, that is so 1980ish.