Great polished game, and leveling to 50 was super fun for me. Then I got to 50 and my options were WFs, and dungeons.
Same model as other games. Why not put out more solo content at 50? AAs? Something else to do besides get the latest gear. I can gear grind in any game I want. That is not an 'end-game' I am seeking.
WFs are fun and all, but if that's al the game offers at 50 then it's not worth it.
I would stay far away from this game unless you are wanting a game similar to WoW.
We need origianality at level 50, or we need something to strive for outside of gear at 50.
Ditto. I had a blast up to 50 and the first few days of 50 (all the epic dungeons were fun, the first time...). Then I just couldn't bear the thought of logging on to do the same crud I had done the day before, I just don't understand the wash/repeat cycle.
Good to know I'm not alone in my dislike for this type of end game setup. I was starting to think it was just me , as there are people I'm guilded with who seem to enjoy it.
For me it's always been the leveling process that I enjoyed the most. Seeing new places, exploring, looking forward to that nifty new ability at a certain level. But it all happened so fast in Rift that I didn't even enjoy the leveing. This whole end-game setup of you have to do this dungeon over and over until you have good enough gear to then go in this dungeon, I just can't enjoy. I tried to roll with it, but it's just not fun so I just gave up. I miss the old fashioned dungeon crawls just for the sake of getting together with some people for fun, not all of us in fabulous gear and not all with perfect specs or group setups. And all the dungeons were open to everyone at the right level without having to get gear from "lower tier" dungeons. Ah well, maybe I"m just getting too old for the current trend of mmo's.
I still say the biggest problem is making endgame the goal. The journey to endgame should be the game and endgame should be the bonus. The amount of content is rift is not the problem but there is a ton to do. From rift raids, expert dungeons, raiding and pvp Im not sure what else they could have added at the start of their game. I swear I think every new game thats come out poeple have complained about "not enough content". I think if a game that just came out doesn;t have enough content then you need to unsub.
I still say the biggest problem is making endgame the goal. The journey to endgame should be the game and endgame should be the bonus. The amount of content is rift is not the problem but there is a ton to do. From rift raids, expert dungeons, raiding and pvp Im not sure what else they could have added at the start of their game. I swear I think every new game thats come out poeple have complained about "not enough content". I think if a game that just came out doesn;t have enough content then you need to unsub.
Rift raids = same as regular rifts just with higher HP / more mobs.
Expert dungeons = rehashes of the same dungeons we've already done prior to 50, just with... higher hp / more mobs.
PVP = grinding warfronts.
Endgame PVP = grinding the same WF's we've already done prior to 50, oh.. except for the level 50 WF that drags on forever and is full of PVE.
Boring, rehashed content is the problem - at least for me. And yes, I have natually unsubbed.
I still say the biggest problem is making endgame the goal. The journey to endgame should be the game and endgame should be the bonus. The amount of content is rift is not the problem but there is a ton to do. From rift raids, expert dungeons, raiding and pvp Im not sure what else they could have added at the start of their game. I swear I think every new game thats come out poeple have complained about "not enough content". I think if a game that just came out doesn;t have enough content then you need to unsub.
Rift raids = same as regular rifts just with higher HP / more mobs.
Expert dungeons = rehashes of the same dungeons we've already done prior to 50, just with... higher hp / more mobs.
PVP = grinding warfronts.
Endgame PVP = grinding the same WF's we've already done prior to 50, oh.. except for the level 50 WF that drags on forever and is full of PVE.
Boring, rehashed content is the problem - at least for me. And yes, I have natually unsubbed.
Did you do the expert dungeons? Because that statement you made is not correct...they are not just a rehash,,the fights are more difficult and involving. I don't PVP much since the game is new the balance is off with the classes. I think that we all have out limit on games but think the fact that people are comparing Rift to WOW is a good thing, It shows that even at the begining they are already doing a lot of things right. It can only get better from this point.
Did you do the expert dungeons? Because that statement you made is not correct...they are not just a rehash,,the fights are more difficult and involving. I don't PVP much since the game is new the balance is off with the classes. I think that we all have out limit on games but think the fact that people are comparing Rift to WOW is a good thing, It shows that even at the begining they are already doing a lot of things right. It can only get better from this point.
Difficult and involving - as in, stack hit gear then tank and spank?
As for PVP, it's not just that the balance is a complete joke... it's that world PVP is poorly designed and pretty much limited to grinding instanced warfronts.
I honestly can't think of a game with worse PVP... and yes, I thought WOW PVP was bad, but Rift easily takes the cake.
Did you do the expert dungeons? Because that statement you made is not correct...they are not just a rehash,,the fights are more difficult and involving. I don't PVP much since the game is new the balance is off with the classes. I think that we all have out limit on games but think the fact that people are comparing Rift to WOW is a good thing, It shows that even at the begining they are already doing a lot of things right. It can only get better from this point.
Difficult and involving - as in, stack hit gear then tank and spank?
As for PVP, it's not just that the balance is a complete joke... it's that world PVP is poorly designed and pretty much limited to grinding instanced warfronts.
I honestly can't think of a game with worse PVP... and yes, I thought WOW PVP was bad, but Rift easily takes the cake.
I can see that you like to argue without facts. The expert fights are not tank and spank...check deepstrike mines on youtube. There is alot of skill, teamwork, and awareness involved.
I agree with the PVP its not great but I don't plan on PVPing in this game. Thats what Tera is for! : D
How could anyone be suprised that RIft is like WoW at max level.....im mean seriously people use your brains a bit. I knew when i got to 50 this game was going to be exactly like WoW so i enjoyed the leveling ride and left after the free month.
Playing: PO, EVE Waiting for: WoD Favourite MMOs: VG, EVE, FE and DDO Any person who expresses rage and loathing for an MMO is preposterous. He or she is like a person who has put on full armor and attacked a hot fudge sundae.
I can see that you like to argue without facts. The expert fights are not tank and spank...check deepstrike mines on youtube. There is alot of skill, teamwork, and awareness involved.
I agree with the PVP its not great but I don't plan on PVPing in this game. Thats what Tera is for! : D
And once you learn the (simple) tactics, it just becomes 'work' aka carrot chasing. Then considering most instances/boss encounters are simple tank and spank, I'm hardly arguing with facts.
And once you learn the (simple) tactics, it just becomes 'work'. And considering most instances are simple tank and spank, I'm hardly arguing with facts.
I had the opposite experience actually. Most encounters had some specific gimmick that needed to be looked at by players. The mechanics of that gimmick weren't always overly complex (avoid the red stuff on the ground, don't hit the boss when he's shielded, run around the boss etc.), but given how random people were reacting to them, I'd say that the dungeons were tuned to be on the hard side for the majority of players. MMO veterans that have seen them all before would probably not be very surprised by them, but I would hardly call the fights tank and spank, far from it.
There are plenty of dungeon guides already, so I'll refrain from posting on specific bosses and dungeons. I'm also talking about experts here, not the normal versions.
In any case, the dungeons get retuned so as to require just one healer from now on, instead of one and a half (half implying support or a second healer). I think the change was made partly because people were pre-conditioned from other games to not need more than one healer, thus putting extreme pressure on the healing classes and partly because the way the new LFG tool is implemented makes it easier to look for one healer instead of potentially two.
TLTR: Dungeons are not tank and spank. While I agree with some of your assessments of the game, you don't need to be exagerating to the point of misinforming on this particular point.
Sadly I agree with OP though. Nothing new to see here.
This is hardly a matter of being a fan or a hater. This is about hard facts and how the game is played. The vast majority of rifts (with the exception of some raid rift bosses) are tank and spank affairs and healing is pretty straight forward. The dungeons are not tank and spank.
I can see that you like to argue without facts. The expert fights are not tank and spank...check deepstrike mines on youtube. There is alot of skill, teamwork, and awareness involved.
I agree with the PVP its not great but I don't plan on PVPing in this game. Thats what Tera is for! : D
And once you learn the (simple) tactics, it just becomes 'work' aka carrot chasing. Then considering most instances/boss encounters are simple tank and spank, I'm hardly arguing with facts.
So you are wrong about the "end game" encounters being tank and spank but how far did you get in leveling? I agree that the edgame is gear chasing but thats what people like. Once again I have to say I think you are just jaded on the whole MMOs genre. All the games 14 years ago were grind for gear games even worst than Rift so for you what makes it different?
Then invent a system that doesn't have a grind at the end game?
Is there a game out there without an end-game grind that is still capable of keeping max-level characters playing? If so... which? And, if so... how successful is it?
I'm not defending RIFT or WoW or any other game. I would seriously like to know the answers to those questions.
Evidently you've never been in an endgame raid. It's totally different than WoW. I can go into a raid dungeon in WoW and 99.9% of the time beat it without dying. In Rift, there's a 100% chance of death, and ~80% chance of wiping at least once. You don't just run in with a bunch of people, kill everything and leave. It takes actual skill and timing to defeat most of the bosses in Raids.
Then invent a system that doesn't have a grind at the end game?
Is there a game out there without an end-game grind that is still capable of keeping max-level characters playing? If so... which? And, if so... how successful is it?
I'm not defending RIFT or WoW or any other game. I would seriously like to know the answers to those questions.
Not sure if they'd still survive in today's market but things like DAoC could work. From what I've heard gear was always a secondary factor in combat there. The main drive for playing was the realm pride, the RvR, taking keeps etc. Not gear and such.
Also EvE doesn't really have the type of grind WoW and RIFT have. Though a lot of people would probably still call it a grind.
I'm personally hoping that SWToR rewards end-game with unique and great storylines, not with gear that's 10 times better. So you'd start raiding because you want to know the story involved in that raid, not the drops from the bosses and such.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Then invent a system that doesn't have a grind at the end game?
Is there a game out there without an end-game grind that is still capable of keeping max-level characters playing? If so... which? And, if so... how successful is it?
I'm not defending RIFT or WoW or any other game. I would seriously like to know the answers to those questions.
Yea I was going to say EVE, UO, and possibly RvR games like DAoC or PvP centered games like SB.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
Then invent a system that doesn't have a grind at the end game?
Is there a game out there without an end-game grind that is still capable of keeping max-level characters playing? If so... which? And, if so... how successful is it?
I'm not defending RIFT or WoW or any other game. I would seriously like to know the answers to those questions.
Endgame like WF,Raids ect can be an option for those who enjoy that sort of things.
But devs should also make other options and improve what they have.
Better crafting Like SWG and Vanguard, secondary way to level like Diplomacy kind of things like they have in Vanguard.
Quests and yes I mean Real quests that is interresting to follow up that can take a while to complete, via puzzles,exploring, follow up leads ect.
Real World PvP with World objectives that benefit your whole faction, like ancient mine gives extra ore mats, old Windmill gives that side an extra % in crit when making food ect.
Housing and farming is also a good timesink and fun to fiddle with.
There is plenty of things to ad to make a game complete and more fun to enjoy when you are at level cap.
Yet another MMORPG that launched with way too little content.
The fact is that in spite of what some players and developers lately seem to think, leveling up IS the game. End game is just the filler to keep people around until the next expansion. I don't see how anyone can believe that a game where even casuals hit the cap in a few weeks can possibly sustain subscriptions based on running a few instances over and over again, with some battle grounds (warfronts) thrown in.
There needs to be either enough content to extend leveling to keep hard core players busy for at least a couple months and more casual players a lot longer. If there can't be enough content to achieve that, then the game needs to require some grinding.
Trying to do the rep grinds in Rift is pointless, because you often outlevel the rewards before you even earn a single piece of armor or weapon. Just more evidence that the devs really screwed up in the amount of XP the game awards for kills, rifts, quests and other actions.
There is a lot about Rift I love. If the same game had launched with 3X the land mass and 3X-5X the content, it might have been a title with staying power. As is, it's a fun month (I got my money's worth in hours player vs. the box price), but the game just doesn't offer much for players beyond a month or two of play.
This game is anything but lacks in content. Its more like "i don't enjoy this kind of content' but doesn't mean it has less things to do at level 50.
Yet another MMORPG that launched with way too little content.
The fact is that in spite of what some players and developers lately seem to think, leveling up IS the game. End game is just the filler to keep people around until the next expansion. I don't see how anyone can believe that a game where even casuals hit the cap in a few weeks can possibly sustain subscriptions based on running a few instances over and over again, with some battle grounds (warfronts) thrown in.
There needs to be either enough content to extend leveling to keep hard core players busy for at least a couple months and more casual players a lot longer. If there can't be enough content to achieve that, then the game needs to require some grinding.
Trying to do the rep grinds in Rift is pointless, because you often outlevel the rewards before you even earn a single piece of armor or weapon. Just more evidence that the devs really screwed up in the amount of XP the game awards for kills, rifts, quests and other actions.
There is a lot about Rift I love. If the same game had launched with 3X the land mass and 3X-5X the content, it might have been a title with staying power. As is, it's a fun month (I got my money's worth in hours player vs. the box price), but the game just doesn't offer much for players beyond a month or two of play.
This game is anything but lacks in content. Its more like "i don't enjoy this kind of content' but doesn't mean it has less things to do at level 50.
This game has alot of content for endgame for only being ~2 months old (if not the most I've ever seen (~20 years of MMOs)).
Then invent a system that doesn't have a grind at the end game?
Is there a game out there without an end-game grind that is still capable of keeping max-level characters playing? If so... which? And, if so... how successful is it?
I'm not defending RIFT or WoW or any other game. I would seriously like to know the answers to those questions.
Not sure if they'd still survive in today's market but things like DAoC could work. From what I've heard gear was always a secondary factor in combat there. The main drive for playing was the realm pride, the RvR, taking keeps etc. Not gear and such.
Also EvE doesn't really have the type of grind WoW and RIFT have. Though a lot of people would probably still call it a grind.
I'm personally hoping that SWToR rewards end-game with unique and great storylines, not with gear that's 10 times better. So you'd start raiding because you want to know the story involved in that raid, not the drops from the bosses and such.
Don't count on that, that means that you only have to play through them once. If all you want to know is the story, once one person does it, then it will be online, and you won't even have to play it. The reason they want you going back, and investing so much time to end game content is they want you to repeat it, you keep repeating the content for the prize, then you keep subbing. Its not like they draw with a crayon on a computer screen and viola, end game content is made.
I think most peoples problems with MMO's these days is they really don't like the genre anymore, witch is cool, but they don't want to play console games ect. They want these game companies to come up with this massively different genre of a game, with completely different mechanics, then call it an mmo, so they can go try it. I really don't know, I just don't understand what people expect.
I think Rift released with plenty of end game content-it seems like a fair bit of complaints have to do with people getting burned out on MMO's in general. "I wont raid like i did in wow for the last five years". That isnt Rifts fault-its just the age of the genre.
I used to love games like Call of Duty-the multiplayer versions-after several years of playing them I just struggle to get excited once the newness wears off. Something about "grinding" for that next weapon or achivement just rings hollow after several years of doing it-I dont blame the GAME for this? What else should they do? I blame myself generally for over playing them or for losing interest-preferences changes/evolve/mature.
Rift could certainly benefit from housing, guild housing, some side activities like fishing and i think EVERY game benefits from an AA system (Everquest 2's version being the best ive seen) there is no question that these would improve the "end game" and longevity of RIFT. I hope they are coming soon'ish. But to complain about faction grinding, gear grinding, running expert dungeons, the repitition of getting good pvp gear/ranks is downright absurd if your chosen game is an MMO.
Seeing how quickly some people are turning on RIFT-a game that released more polished with more content then any MMO in the last five or so years says something about the genre. Game companies should really fear this reaction. You can release a fully polished game, with active customer service, with tons of content, with a fair bit of "newness" and creativity and still face a pretty fickle and impatient audience. The same audience that craves NEW and craves END game yet avoids EVE or avoids Vanguard or avoids Perpeteeum or a host of indy titles-somehow also doesnt like mainstream first class "traditional" titles like Rift either...scary times indeed.
Originally posted by Lathander81All the games 14 years ago were grind for gear games even worst than Rift so for you what makes it different?
I think it just boils down to perception of grind. What one views as grind is fun for someone else.
I know many view those games of years ago as grindy, but from my perspective and type of game play I enjoy, they felt less grindy. Yeah we were chasing gear upgrades and AA's in EQ1 but I had a lot of options on how I wanted to do that. I had a choice of several solo spots, several dungeons I only needed another friend or two for, and most all the LDoN dungeons could be done with three people. We didn't seem to have to be well geared to participate in any sort of group environment, and I didn't have to spec a specific way. Heck we even did an all beastlord dungeon crawl once just for fun and managed to succeed. An all beastmaster group in Rift wouldn't get beyond the first mob in any dungeon. Their only option is the solo mobs outdoors.
LotRO's end game felt grindy to me, but it took me six months to get there. So I just started another alt in a new area. I played WoW at release and it again took me about six months to reach cap, at which time I left. But I at least enjoyed six months of my time in both games. DAOC kept me entertained for a year and a half with tons of leveling options. EQ2, what with their tradeskill quests, monthly events, harvesting, etc lessening the grind kept me distracted enough for four years. I am typically a slow leveler, but reached 50 in a month in Rift.
Anything if done long enough I guess becomes a grind. But usually when it's a game I enjoy, I start really feeling the grind after a year or so, not after a month. As I said, everyone likes different games and styles of play. Not one game will satisfy all of us. And the fact that more are obviously playing WoW and Rift, rather than those I've enjoyed the most tells me I'm not the typical mmo player. But us less typical like to come here and share our view points too.
Comments
Ditto. I had a blast up to 50 and the first few days of 50 (all the epic dungeons were fun, the first time...). Then I just couldn't bear the thought of logging on to do the same crud I had done the day before, I just don't understand the wash/repeat cycle.
Good to know I'm not alone in my dislike for this type of end game setup. I was starting to think it was just me , as there are people I'm guilded with who seem to enjoy it.
For me it's always been the leveling process that I enjoyed the most. Seeing new places, exploring, looking forward to that nifty new ability at a certain level. But it all happened so fast in Rift that I didn't even enjoy the leveing. This whole end-game setup of you have to do this dungeon over and over until you have good enough gear to then go in this dungeon, I just can't enjoy. I tried to roll with it, but it's just not fun so I just gave up. I miss the old fashioned dungeon crawls just for the sake of getting together with some people for fun, not all of us in fabulous gear and not all with perfect specs or group setups. And all the dungeons were open to everyone at the right level without having to get gear from "lower tier" dungeons. Ah well, maybe I"m just getting too old for the current trend of mmo's.
I still say the biggest problem is making endgame the goal. The journey to endgame should be the game and endgame should be the bonus. The amount of content is rift is not the problem but there is a ton to do. From rift raids, expert dungeons, raiding and pvp Im not sure what else they could have added at the start of their game. I swear I think every new game thats come out poeple have complained about "not enough content". I think if a game that just came out doesn;t have enough content then you need to unsub.
Rift raids = same as regular rifts just with higher HP / more mobs.
Expert dungeons = rehashes of the same dungeons we've already done prior to 50, just with... higher hp / more mobs.
PVP = grinding warfronts.
Endgame PVP = grinding the same WF's we've already done prior to 50, oh.. except for the level 50 WF that drags on forever and is full of PVE.
Boring, rehashed content is the problem - at least for me. And yes, I have natually unsubbed.
Did you do the expert dungeons? Because that statement you made is not correct...they are not just a rehash,,the fights are more difficult and involving. I don't PVP much since the game is new the balance is off with the classes. I think that we all have out limit on games but think the fact that people are comparing Rift to WOW is a good thing, It shows that even at the begining they are already doing a lot of things right. It can only get better from this point.
Difficult and involving - as in, stack hit gear then tank and spank?
As for PVP, it's not just that the balance is a complete joke... it's that world PVP is poorly designed and pretty much limited to grinding instanced warfronts.
I honestly can't think of a game with worse PVP... and yes, I thought WOW PVP was bad, but Rift easily takes the cake.
I can see that you like to argue without facts. The expert fights are not tank and spank...check deepstrike mines on youtube. There is alot of skill, teamwork, and awareness involved.
I agree with the PVP its not great but I don't plan on PVPing in this game. Thats what Tera is for! : D
How could anyone be suprised that RIft is like WoW at max level.....im mean seriously people use your brains a bit. I knew when i got to 50 this game was going to be exactly like WoW so i enjoyed the leveling ride and left after the free month.
Playing: PO, EVE
Waiting for: WoD
Favourite MMOs: VG, EVE, FE and DDO
Any person who expresses rage and loathing for an MMO is preposterous. He or she is like a person who has put on full armor and attacked a hot fudge sundae.
And once you learn the (simple) tactics, it just becomes 'work' aka carrot chasing. Then considering most instances/boss encounters are simple tank and spank, I'm hardly arguing with facts.
I had the opposite experience actually. Most encounters had some specific gimmick that needed to be looked at by players. The mechanics of that gimmick weren't always overly complex (avoid the red stuff on the ground, don't hit the boss when he's shielded, run around the boss etc.), but given how random people were reacting to them, I'd say that the dungeons were tuned to be on the hard side for the majority of players. MMO veterans that have seen them all before would probably not be very surprised by them, but I would hardly call the fights tank and spank, far from it.
There are plenty of dungeon guides already, so I'll refrain from posting on specific bosses and dungeons. I'm also talking about experts here, not the normal versions.
In any case, the dungeons get retuned so as to require just one healer from now on, instead of one and a half (half implying support or a second healer). I think the change was made partly because people were pre-conditioned from other games to not need more than one healer, thus putting extreme pressure on the healing classes and partly because the way the new LFG tool is implemented makes it easier to look for one healer instead of potentially two.
TLTR: Dungeons are not tank and spank. While I agree with some of your assessments of the game, you don't need to be exagerating to the point of misinforming on this particular point.
Glad to see Rift still has some fan's left! :P
Sadly I agree with OP though. Nothing new to see here.
This is hardly a matter of being a fan or a hater. This is about hard facts and how the game is played. The vast majority of rifts (with the exception of some raid rift bosses) are tank and spank affairs and healing is pretty straight forward. The dungeons are not tank and spank.
So you are wrong about the "end game" encounters being tank and spank but how far did you get in leveling? I agree that the edgame is gear chasing but thats what people like. Once again I have to say I think you are just jaded on the whole MMOs genre. All the games 14 years ago were grind for gear games even worst than Rift so for you what makes it different?
Well Trions own words was..we're not in Azeroth anymore, you can't blame people for buying into that advertise crap..
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Hmmmphhh..hmphhh.... I told you so
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Then invent a system that doesn't have a grind at the end game?
Is there a game out there without an end-game grind that is still capable of keeping max-level characters playing? If so... which? And, if so... how successful is it?
I'm not defending RIFT or WoW or any other game. I would seriously like to know the answers to those questions.
Evidently you've never been in an endgame raid. It's totally different than WoW. I can go into a raid dungeon in WoW and 99.9% of the time beat it without dying. In Rift, there's a 100% chance of death, and ~80% chance of wiping at least once. You don't just run in with a bunch of people, kill everything and leave. It takes actual skill and timing to defeat most of the bosses in Raids.
Not sure if they'd still survive in today's market but things like DAoC could work. From what I've heard gear was always a secondary factor in combat there. The main drive for playing was the realm pride, the RvR, taking keeps etc. Not gear and such.
Also EvE doesn't really have the type of grind WoW and RIFT have. Though a lot of people would probably still call it a grind.
I'm personally hoping that SWToR rewards end-game with unique and great storylines, not with gear that's 10 times better. So you'd start raiding because you want to know the story involved in that raid, not the drops from the bosses and such.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
Yea I was going to say EVE, UO, and possibly RvR games like DAoC or PvP centered games like SB.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
Endgame like WF,Raids ect can be an option for those who enjoy that sort of things.
But devs should also make other options and improve what they have.
Better crafting Like SWG and Vanguard, secondary way to level like Diplomacy kind of things like they have in Vanguard.
Quests and yes I mean Real quests that is interresting to follow up that can take a while to complete, via puzzles,exploring, follow up leads ect.
Real World PvP with World objectives that benefit your whole faction, like ancient mine gives extra ore mats, old Windmill gives that side an extra % in crit when making food ect.
Housing and farming is also a good timesink and fun to fiddle with.
There is plenty of things to ad to make a game complete and more fun to enjoy when you are at level cap.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
This game is anything but lacks in content. Its more like "i don't enjoy this kind of content' but doesn't mean it has less things to do at level 50.
This game has alot of content for endgame for only being ~2 months old (if not the most I've ever seen (~20 years of MMOs)).
Don't count on that, that means that you only have to play through them once. If all you want to know is the story, once one person does it, then it will be online, and you won't even have to play it. The reason they want you going back, and investing so much time to end game content is they want you to repeat it, you keep repeating the content for the prize, then you keep subbing. Its not like they draw with a crayon on a computer screen and viola, end game content is made.
I think most peoples problems with MMO's these days is they really don't like the genre anymore, witch is cool, but they don't want to play console games ect. They want these game companies to come up with this massively different genre of a game, with completely different mechanics, then call it an mmo, so they can go try it. I really don't know, I just don't understand what people expect.
My Thoughts on Content Locust
I think Rift released with plenty of end game content-it seems like a fair bit of complaints have to do with people getting burned out on MMO's in general. "I wont raid like i did in wow for the last five years". That isnt Rifts fault-its just the age of the genre.
I used to love games like Call of Duty-the multiplayer versions-after several years of playing them I just struggle to get excited once the newness wears off. Something about "grinding" for that next weapon or achivement just rings hollow after several years of doing it-I dont blame the GAME for this? What else should they do? I blame myself generally for over playing them or for losing interest-preferences changes/evolve/mature.
Rift could certainly benefit from housing, guild housing, some side activities like fishing and i think EVERY game benefits from an AA system (Everquest 2's version being the best ive seen) there is no question that these would improve the "end game" and longevity of RIFT. I hope they are coming soon'ish. But to complain about faction grinding, gear grinding, running expert dungeons, the repitition of getting good pvp gear/ranks is downright absurd if your chosen game is an MMO.
Seeing how quickly some people are turning on RIFT-a game that released more polished with more content then any MMO in the last five or so years says something about the genre. Game companies should really fear this reaction. You can release a fully polished game, with active customer service, with tons of content, with a fair bit of "newness" and creativity and still face a pretty fickle and impatient audience. The same audience that craves NEW and craves END game yet avoids EVE or avoids Vanguard or avoids Perpeteeum or a host of indy titles-somehow also doesnt like mainstream first class "traditional" titles like Rift either...scary times indeed.
I think it just boils down to perception of grind. What one views as grind is fun for someone else.
I know many view those games of years ago as grindy, but from my perspective and type of game play I enjoy, they felt less grindy. Yeah we were chasing gear upgrades and AA's in EQ1 but I had a lot of options on how I wanted to do that. I had a choice of several solo spots, several dungeons I only needed another friend or two for, and most all the LDoN dungeons could be done with three people. We didn't seem to have to be well geared to participate in any sort of group environment, and I didn't have to spec a specific way. Heck we even did an all beastlord dungeon crawl once just for fun and managed to succeed. An all beastmaster group in Rift wouldn't get beyond the first mob in any dungeon. Their only option is the solo mobs outdoors.
LotRO's end game felt grindy to me, but it took me six months to get there. So I just started another alt in a new area. I played WoW at release and it again took me about six months to reach cap, at which time I left. But I at least enjoyed six months of my time in both games. DAOC kept me entertained for a year and a half with tons of leveling options. EQ2, what with their tradeskill quests, monthly events, harvesting, etc lessening the grind kept me distracted enough for four years. I am typically a slow leveler, but reached 50 in a month in Rift.
Anything if done long enough I guess becomes a grind. But usually when it's a game I enjoy, I start really feeling the grind after a year or so, not after a month. As I said, everyone likes different games and styles of play. Not one game will satisfy all of us. And the fact that more are obviously playing WoW and Rift, rather than those I've enjoyed the most tells me I'm not the typical mmo player. But us less typical like to come here and share our view points too.