Poll: Traveling in an Open World or Porting from one place to the other?

Lorthian · January 2005

Which you rather have in a game: a large open world through which you would have to travel to get from one place to another? Or a game that has no open world between the cities and adventure areas, and just using long distance zoing to get you from A to B? For example, you are in a town and have to head out the dungeon. Would you rather a game that allows you to travel there through the forests and such. Or would you prefer a game that doesn't have any open land between such places, since you are just zoned from where you are to where you have to go?

MrBum21 · January 2005

i personaly like UO's recall system.

once you get to be a high enough skilled mage you could mark a rune to any location you can stand, then you can cast a spell, or use a scroll to cast recall and go back to the spot the rune was marked. it made the game seem bigger because i didnt have to worry about the three hours it would take me to get to the place i wanted to hunt.

ianubisi · January 2005

Originally posted by korr
i personaly like UO's recall system.

once you get to be a high enough skilled mage you could mark a rune to any location you can stand, then you can cast a spell, or use a scroll to cast recall and go back to the spot the rune was marked. it made the game seem bigger because i didnt have to worry about the three hours it would take me to get to the place i wanted to hunt.

I agree. Once I've explored the place, I like the option to return to it instantly.

Less downtime is always a plus, and traveling over the same old pixelated area is little more than downtime.

Finduilas · January 2005

Originally posted by ianubisi

Originally posted by korr
i personaly like UO's recall system.

once you get to be a high enough skilled mage you could mark a rune to any location you can stand, then you can cast a spell, or use a scroll to cast recall and go back to the spot the rune was marked. it made the game seem bigger because i didnt have to worry about the three hours it would take me to get to the place i wanted to hunt.

I agree. Once I've explored the place, I like the option to return to it instantly.

Less downtime is always a plus, and traveling over the same old pixelated area is little more than downtime.

This is what Sigil thinks about travelling:

16.8.1 What about downtime related to travel?

Boats were put into EverQuest because we thought (and still do think) that travel should mean something, and that faraway lands should be exotic. Traveling somewhere distant should be an accomplishment as much as anything else. However, they turned out to be boring -- you'd sit on them, doing very little, which means you weren't playing the game.

The trick is to make it such that travel is still meaningful, distant lands are still distant and exotic, but to make the journey fun and interesting in and of itself. This is really one of those areas where, like instancing, we feel there is a trend to 'throw the baby out with the bath water': traveling has been boring, so let's get rid of travel! Teleport where thou willt!

Sigil's philosophy on this and many other issues is to attack the problem, not the premise (assuming the premise is sound, and we think almost all of us want distant lands to have an allure and a rarity, and to be rewarded for exploration).

Make of it what you will.

kmimmorpg · January 2005

Originally posted by Finduilas

This is what Sigil thinks about travelling:

16.8.1 What about downtime related to travel?

Sigil's philosophy on this and many other issues is to attack the problem, not the premise (assuming the premise is sound, and we think almost all of us want distant lands to have an allure and a rarity, and to be rewarded for exploration).

Who is Sigil?

ianubisi · January 2005

Originally posted by kmimmorpg
Who is Sigil?

Sigil Games Online, makers of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

As for their quote, I believe they have the problem figure out incorrectly. Once I have adventured and explored to said location, I have no interest spending the next 4 months of my online experience trekking back and forth to their City Hub concept (so popular in Quest-based systems today) in order to experience the adventure of playing their game.

I have to get there once, and enjoy the journey that one time at least...beyond that, let me decide.

Nahallac · January 2005

I personally like a good mix of traveling and insta-porting. To me, travelling is part of the adventure.

Lorthian · January 2005

This is what Sigil thinks about travelling:
16.8.1 What about downtime related to travel?
Boats were put into EverQuest because we thought (and still do think) that travel should mean something, and that faraway lands should be exotic. Traveling somewhere distant should be an accomplishment as much as anything else. However, they turned out to be boring -- you'd sit on them, doing very little, which means you weren't playing the game.
The trick is to make it such that travel is still meaningful, distant lands are still distant and exotic, but to make the journey fun and interesting in and of itself. This is really one of those areas where, like instancing, we feel there is a trend to 'throw the baby out with the bath water': traveling has been boring, so let's get rid of travel! Teleport where thou willt!
Sigil's philosophy on this and many other issues is to attack the problem, not the premise (assuming the premise is sound, and we think almost all of us want distant lands to have an allure and a rarity, and to be rewarded for exploration).

Very well said.

____________________
Crafting must die

MrBum21 · January 2005

Originally posted by Nahallac

I personally like a good mix of traveling and insta-porting. To me, travelling is part of the adventure.

traveling is part of the adventure, but i dont like it when it takes away from the adventure. in eq it was a pain to have to run through lvl 2 zone, then a lvl 39 zone, then a lvl 10 zone just to get to a place where there are lvl 15 mobs. yes that is an adventure, aslong as it dosent resualt in suicide. but lets say you make it through alive, then decide to go back to your home port, or just a town that you prefer or arent KOS to the guards. you would have to spend an hour or more to get back to town, then another hour or more to get back to the hunt.

wouldnt it just be easier to teleport back to town to restock/sell/bank and then return to the REAL adventure? you shouldnt be FORCED to recall/teleport but i like the option to.

Nahallac · January 2005

Sure it would be EASIER to just insta-port everywhere, but the question was not about what was easier...it was about what do you like.

EQ travel improved immensely with the release of PoP and the use of trans gnomes for a few areas, although I miss the boats ...don't miss the 20 minute rides ..but I miss the authiticity of getting on a boat to travel to another continent.

Between PoP, Trans gnomes and druid/wizard porting ..its really not that hard to get anywhere anymore. Doesn't take long, but there is still a good combination of having to "hoof it" and "insta porting." That is what makes that aspect of the game enjoyable for me.

Nahallac Silverwinds
Alter Destiny
Tunare - EQ

MrBum21 · January 2005

Originally posted by Nahallac

Between PoP, Trans gnomes and druid/wizard porting ..its really not that hard to get anywhere anymore. Doesn't take long, but there is still a good combination of having to "hoof it" and "insta porting." That is what makes that aspect of the game enjoyable for me.

Nahallac Silverwinds
Alter Destiny
Tunare - EQ

this is one of the things i like about MMORPG's, is that they can give you a choice. in UO you could buy a boat and sail it around the world, find odd little islands, or "hoof it" across the land. infact i did this several times just exploring. its great to have the option to just wonder around with no real point other then to see what there is to see. or you could realy want to hunt air elementals, or liches (sp) or dragons, all in the same night. you could run every where that you needed, taking boats when needed, or you could recall to each location in turn and maximize your playing. its all about prefrence, and i would like to see us able to do what we all prefer

Nahallac · January 2005

Well said, Korr. Having options to fit different play styles makes all the difference.

Nahallac Silverwinds
Alter Destiny
Tunare - EQ

brostyn · January 2005

Traveling sucks. I play a game to advance, and become stronger. Not to look at pretty trees on a computer.

Nahallac · January 2005

They are called "role playing games" for a reason. I love advancement ..thats what keeps me going. Getting to a higher level, getting better gear etc etc. I'm all about that.

However, travel can be a huge part of roleplay because of what you can encounter from place to place. Those of us who are truely into the role-play aspect of the game can appreciate it.

Nahallac Silverwinds
Alter Destiny
Tunare - EQ

kmimmorpg · January 2005

Originally posted by Nahallac

They are called "role playing games" for a reason. I love advancement ..thats what keeps me going. Getting to a higher level, getting better gear etc etc. I'm all about that.
However, travel can be a huge part of roleplay because of what you can encounter from place to place. Those of us who are truely into the role-play aspect of the game can appreciate it.

Nahallac Silverwinds
Alter Destiny
Tunare - EQ

I am in the middle. I like to travel a few times to enjoy my surroundings...but after a few trips I want the ability to get there quick. I remember with City of Heroes how important it was to get my characters the ability to travel faster. Looking back, I think it was because there was not much to see or interact with on the journey (if you can call it that) from mission to mission.

MrBum21 · January 2005

hehe nothing makes me more upset then having to run an hour just to kill some one hehe.

yeah running around CoH wasnt much fun, and flying is just a faster easier way to travel, so it only cuts down the amount of fun your not having.

kmimmorpg · January 2005

Originally posted by korr

hehe nothing makes me more upset then having to run an hour just to kill some one hehe.

I just have this picture in my head of a superhero checking his watch, getting upset when he misses the tram... "Darn, I'm going to miss my appointment!"

Wickes · January 2005

Originally posted by Nahallac

Sure it would be EASIER to just insta-port everywhere, but the question was not about what was easier...it was about what do you like.

What's easier IS all it's about for 90% of today's gamers, at least the ones who post. If you'd let them they'd log in, port to the boss mob, finish him off in 30 seconds with their insta-uber weapons, and then spend the rest of the day discussing how stimulating and challenging the encounter was. These people don't want any challenge or difficulty ... they want to pretend they are doing something. Hence game devs comply, dumbing down games more and more. Then the players burn through the easy games in a month and start whining again. Rinse and repeat.

The future looks bright, doesn't it

Scaris · January 2005

Originally posted by Wickes
Originally posted by Nahallac
Sure it would be EASIER to just insta-port everywhere, but the question was not about what was easier...it was about what do you like. What's easier IS all it's about for 90% of today's gamers, at least the ones who post. If you'd let them they'd log in, port to the boss mob, finish him off in 30 seconds with their insta-uber weapons, and then spend the rest of the day discussing how stimulating and challenging the encounter was. These people don't want any challenge or difficulty ... they want to pretend they are doing something. Hence game devs comply, dumbing down games more and more. Then the players burn through the easy games in a month and start whining again. Rinse and repeat.
The future looks bright, doesn't it

Well, let me just say this though. With some games you may want the adventure and exploration yet trying to keep a group organized and together for 5 minutes without someone going linkdead, another lagging to much to keep up, another getting in trouble every 5 minutes. I think future MMO's will fix tha tproblem alot with voice chat options and other innovations to make communicating with a group easier. That to me is where I want it easy. Not in getting somewhere, but in being able to convey to the group in an easy and timely manner to be the most successful.

I will agree, I think UO has the best system. There were massive rune library's to take you anywhere at anytime, but you never had to use those. You could make your own rune libraries only off what you explored before, and that was dam fun I might add for me. Gating also made group management easy, which was VERY needed considering the lack of message ability in the game (which may have been a blessing, or a curse, I still am not sure).

I want to be able to explore and tell the person behind me WHILE I am dodging, diving, or ducking to whatch their step or their head, there is a trap.

- Fadeus Hawkwood

Wickes · January 2005

I'd have to say that some of the difficulty you refer to is precisely what made early EQ so special. Yeah, I sure did bitch and moan about some of the lengthy travel, and some of it was indeed excessive, but now it just seems to me it's gone way too far in the other direction (on most aspects of games). The difficulty in just getting to so many places in EQ1 did make them seem exotic, distant, and difficult ... not to mention people actually had to exert effort and thus you didn't log in and find every joker in the game standing there.

I hope McQuaid sticks by his guns. I don't care if 95% of games out there are for people who want it quick and easy - just please give me one or two that challenge you seriously and deter the lazy whiners

As far as voice communications, my groups have been doing that for, hmm, I would say the last year and a half or so. There are already so many easy free options available. We generally use Yahoo voice conferences because that's worked well for us, but there are other choices. I certainly do agree that voice communication adds immensely to gaming ... a group can do things they couldn't dream of doing with typed communication.

MrBum21 · January 2005

Originally posted by Fadeus

Originally posted by Wickes

I will agree, I think UO has the best system. There were massive rune library's to take you anywhere at anytime, but you never had to use those. You could make your own rune libraries only off what you explored before, and that was dam fun I might add for me. Gating also made group management easy, which was VERY needed considering the lack of message ability in the game (which may have been a blessing, or a curse, I still am not sure).

I want to be able to explore and tell the person behind me WHILE I am dodging, diving, or ducking to whatch their step or their head, there is a trap.

- Fadeus Hawkwood

as for the chat, thats where ICQ came in, it was a nice way to talk to friends, and the way UO was set up it was easy to use while playing. but now ingame chat is easier

but yeah moongate made getting a group to the fun quick and easy.

and as for Wickes, i dont want to just teleport in, kill the boss in 30 seconds with my "insta-uber weapons" your using the idea of recall in an EQ type setting, im talking about it as UO was about 5 years ago. there was no boss's to fight, just strong mobs to kill. getting to the fun wasnt "dumbing" the game down, it just cut out 30 mins of more of fighting weaker mobs, and cut down the chances of getting killed by other players.

edited for kindness... dont expect it too often hehe

the missing link in a chain of distruction

Scaris · January 2005

my group does too, but thats my group I am with daily. I have gotten to the point that I hate letting others into the group, because there is ALWAYS someone coming up asking to be in the group, regardless of wether you are set to be looking for players or not. Unfortunately my group has gotten abit small at the moment and I am playing more then 1 game and some of the others haven't moved to them as well yet.

Yep, I agree, some of that agony back then made some of the fondest memories for me in MMO's. But I have also sat for hours pulling my hair out because I offered to help someone only to find out they are trying to play on an absolutely horrible computer, but expect you to deal with their problem. That completely grates me, and that can be miserable on travel. But I think I would take that over what PoP did to EQ. Removed all racial diversity, and make faction a thing of the past with exception to some quest availibility.

I think the biggest key is find yourself a good full group, a group that naturally works at about the same pace and game time spent as you and stick with them like glue. I can't handle grouping with strangers much anymore. Then I gotta decide how looting is gonna be when before we really didnt even care about looting, someone in the group would get it that needs it. ANd trying to get a group of strangers to stick with you anymore through some hard exploring to find a new spot or get to somewhere that you have heard about can be a real treat too. They last til about 1st death and then all the sudden they start bailing like rats leaving a burning ship.

Thats why I don't think there can be both in a game. It has to be one way or the other, and hopefully then the ones that like it that way will stay and the others will go. Trying to make it all things to all people only means its going to be everything to the loudest and the silent mass's are just accepting thats how it is, atleast to me.

- Fadeus Hawkwood

Scaris · January 2005

ack, double post, sorry

- Fadeus Hawkwood

Wickes · January 2005

I guess my current mindset is remarkably like yours Fadeus. Once you get used to a good group of people, particularly on voice, it's then really tough to adapt to new people. My friends are currently straggling all over too, so while I wait (impatiently), I find myself soloing more and more, which really didn't used to be like me. But now it seems I have to be "in the mood" to go put together a pickup group. It really can be fun, but hardly like bringing your crack, battle-proven team into something. And yes, grouping with strangers is a pain for all the reasons you stated, but then I have to keep reminding myself it's the only way to make new friends, lol.

[And thus one might ask is the increasing use of voice actually a deterrant to new friendships =p]

Bring your friends over to Mistmoore ... sounds like we might have a match

korr, that wasn't directed at you. It was directed at the general gaming audience these days, as regularly evidenced in this forum. To be honest I didn't really focus on your post(s), as I don't know much about UO .. pre-EQ I was playing war games. No need to be kind ... we're tough here

MrBum21 · January 2005

Originally posted by Wickes

korr, that wasn't directed at you. It was directed at the general gaming audience these days, as regularly evidenced in this forum. To be honest I didn't really focus on your post(s), as I don't know much about UO .. pre-EQ I was playing war games. No need to be kind ... we're tough here

i know it wasnt directed at me, but some times i like to play devils advocate(sp)

if no one sticks up for us lazy ppl who will?....wow, that sounds kinda dumb hehe

and as for the need to be kind, well i always said i was one of the nicest PK's (player killr) UO ever had. one minute i would kill your friend, the next i would give you money and keep you safe from others like me ahh.. the good ole days hehe.

the missing link in a chain of distruction

Zipeh · January 2005

i voted for no porting, specificaly due to its effect on my game of choice EvE. with the player based economy and player based content (involving the strategic conflct over lawless areas of space) allowing "porting" would be ruinous.

many of the price differentials in commodities/items/ships occur to due to the distance between production centers and the outlying regions. with porting any commodity could be brought very rapidly from point a to point b, thereby negating the potential for profit if one was to take the time to move the goods to the outlying region (and vice versa taking commodities from far away areas to the central hub).

the strategic vying for power in the low/no security areas could also be adversly effected if poeple could easily travel to whereever they wanted. placing blockades in choke points to stop enemy players from entering your space would be negated is they could simply port to the center of your region, or from one side of the universe to the other to show up unexpectedly at your blockade with no warning would in my opinion ruin the game.

the distance in some games (and i am more than willing to see that it might work very well in some games - presumably in one that were less pvp orinetated and more about questing in various regions) is what makes the game. Geography and the choices made in dealing with said geography is what gives us strategy. take away the geography and you take away the strategy.

thats my 2 cents on the matter/

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Poll: Traveling in an Open World or Porting from one place to the other?

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Poll: Traveling in an Open World or Porting from one place to the other?

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