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Do I still need to afk grind into oblivion?
Great game, let that be said! But I left the game due to the insane grind to get stats to "end" level. On top of this I felt I got nowhere without doing "afk-macroing" which was a too game breaking flaw for me.
I read that you now can meditate stats, which is great, but you still need to afk-macro the skills & spells, just like before? I refuse to afk-macro, and I got worn out after 3 days of hardcore grinding my archery, and stil had not gotten it to 100/100. Sigh.
Are there any hope in the horizon? I would like to return as themepark MMO's offer me nothing. I know the spell schools can be meditated, but I feel the skills are increasing too slow even though the whole system is alot faster than at it's release.
PS; no use to label me with any "instant gratification" as that is pointless; I demand instant gratification. 
Cheers! Please, constructive replies most appreciated!
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Comments
Grind has been reduced quite a bit since Launch, and was reduced again recently. Meditation has reduced it even further. That said, you still have to get every skill in the game to be on a good competitive field, and you will have to macro a lot of your spells up (mostly Buffs, Debuffs and other spells that are not meant for damage like WoF, Begone, etc). But if that doesn't bother you, and you enjoyed DarkFall, go ahead and resub. Perhaps you'll find the current "grind" to be acceptable and keep playing.
chrisel when did you play ? cause getting 100 sharpshooter is one off the fastet skills to lvl if you cant get it i don't see how you can last in darkfall.
the stats meditation defintly helps but afk swimming is still rewarding for vitality and strenght up to 50 cause off the cost for it with meditation.
also you can meditate spellschools, but even if you go destroyer (meele buff) magekiller (bow buff) their would still be, debuffs to lvl for pvp about 2 -3 then telekeniss, launch, begone, confusion
if you choose the hybrid, meele archer instead, theirs suddenly a lot more spells, some importent buff others, stormblast, wall off force, come hither, pungment mist, eye rot, 2 or 3 heal other spells. and you have self buffs to but their to time consuming to lvl.
in the end you still gain to much from macroing or face many boring hours depending on how far you wanna go or if your choosing a easy route as something that blocks most off your magic (destroyer, magekiller)
the grind reduction was first changed to 3x skill gains on mobs then it was changed for non damgede spells on mobs to only 2x.
and recently the grind has been reduced again bye a unknown number, but seems to be only up to some point and not all the way to skill 100.
For the stats part and unlocking spell school and get to 100, the problem is resolved.
You still need to macro and thats the problem. If you want to be a good pker, 6 months still wont be enough. You need intensify and to get these up, you need to macro like crazy. You need 75 greater magic mana efficiency to unlock an end game skill, but again, you need to macro for days. If you are hybrid, you have to macro your self buffs and some other stuff.
How they can fix these problem, by simply adding every skills spells into the meditation. I dont see why they did not do this yet.
But again, if you are a destroyer, indestructible, you wont need to macro anything, but gears are expensive.
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You still need to macro and thats the problem. If you want to be a good pker, 6 months still wont be enough.
"Only in quiet waters do things mirror themselves undistorted.
Only in a quiet mind is adequate perception of the world."
Hans Margolius
.... sounds like DFO still has a long way to go...
Thanks all.
I played not many months ago. I know archery is the "easiest" skill to get to 100 but still I found myself worn out in the process. Think I left game when I was at 100/99 on archery. The game is is definately still too grindy for me, so I will wait for a return. Thats real petty really since the game is great in (many) other aspects, but 6 months of hardcore grinding to become competetive, that is waay too much. And I detest & frown upon afk-macroing; I hate it for all that it is worth.
GG all, I wish I could enjoy the game as much as you all do
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
I'm not currently a big supporter of DarkFall with all it's flaws, but since the last few patches on the grind, it shouldn't take 6 months of macro/grinding anymore. Probably about 2-4 months depending on how many hours you play, and much sooner for those who live in their parent's basement. The skill gain rates were increased by x2 a few patches ago (with the exception of Crafting) and mixed with Meditation, it really seems to help a lot. The complains about grind on the forum have greatly reduced, so the system seems to work (although I'm not a fan of offline skilling).
Ranking for mana efficiency reduction :
mana efficiency secondary skill from school > mana efficiency enchant on staff > mana conservation (the "end game skill" you mention after unlocking 75 greater magic mana eficiency)
Its also highly doubtfull that saving a bit of mana is more important then lets say dodging and avoid being hit or aim well and land your own hits.
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Yes and no. Meditation does eliminate some of the grind, primarily giving a huge boost to leveling your stats (Strength, Vitality, Quickness Dex, Int, Wisdom) and some secondary skills like Rigor and Defense. It does come at a hefty price when you add it all up, typically costing about 400 gold per hour of meditation, and only one skill or stat may be meditated at a time. Meditation also allows you to gain skills in the magic schools, but not the spells themselves - for example you can meditate Lesser Magic from 1-100 without ever casting a single spell, but your Heal Self, Mana Missile or any other skill can only be leveled by casting them during gameplay. IMO it kind of defeats the usefulness of meditating the schools unless you're only interested in a particular spell that requires you to have level 75 of a school to be purchased.
As far as melee weapon skills and masteries, those are still skills that are only gained from AFK macroing or gameplay. So when you cumulatively combine the meditated and hand-leveled combat skills that are necessary to be viable vs a veteran player, you're still looking at a grind that would make most Korean grindfest gamers feel like they're the "instant gratification" crowd.
I don't get these 6 months of grinding to get pvp ready. It takes maybe 1-2 months. If you're a min maxer, sure, 6 months sounds right. Some people on these boards are such ragers.
Not being pvp viable from the get go is probably the biggest problem Darkfall has. Frankly I dont know many people who enjoy being everyone elses bitch for 1 to 2 months before they can finally start to defend themselves.
Its like some sort of sick high school hazing.
for the people who enjoy this kind of pvp in a game, its simply the best game on the market and nothing can compare.
thats not saying a whole lot but the game is entirely enjoyable if you play it right.
Its the best game ive ever played, but im a fanboi right?
To be fair some people enjoy the taste of rat flesh, if cooked right. To say that it is the best tasting meat in the word simply because you enjoy it so much is folly.
To reiterate, just because it is the best meat youve ever tasted doesnt mean the rest of the world thinks so.
In fact the parallel here is that most people, if they did actually force themselves to try it, would probably still enjoy eating some other meat better.
Great analogy eh?
if you are a good player you can be competitive in a few weeks, beyond made a video and guide showing this recently. you can make a vet char now in a few months which before would take a whole year. no one really has any right to complain about the time to get pvp ready thesedays. df may still have flaws but honestly the grind is mostly gone.
My blog:
Making people pvp viable from their first day would alleviate one of the biggest problems with Darkfalls player retention rate.
being a new player and leveling up is fun, its just not fun when you are stuck there for months, which is no longer the case.
My blog:
I would imagine being at everyone elses mercy while trying to attain the aforementioned fun is something most people dont care for.
good analogy but my point is "for the people who enjoy this kind of pvp in a game"
hardcore pvp isnt for everyone
It could be, if done right. Look how well Planetside did in its prime.
So i notice some ppl dont like my comment about the 6 months is not enough to be good.
So to fix that up, i mostly compared a 6 months that plays less then 4 hours a day to a 2 years old veteran in my mind.
For those who say it takes a week or a months, what ever to be good, then you only take players who rerolled into account. Im talking about from real newb's to a veteran.
Without mana conservation, which is the longest thing that you got to work on to unlock, you burn out really fast on mana. You mostly need mana to transfer. You got no stamina, you cant regen hp fast enough to keep up.
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mana conservation at a 100 with tests seem to indicate 2 less mana for each spell cast, the good one is the spell schools mana effiency witch at a 100 is about 25 % less mana on each spell...
so no mana conservation is not that importent, maybe talking about the 3 transfear spells, witchesbrew and heal self witch all goes up fine bye just useing em you dont have to macro em.
also theirs the Enudrance skill requriments 50 quickness that increases your natural stamina regeneration, one for 50 vitality called fitness for health and 50 intelliegence for mana regain increase...
thoes 3 regain skills are importent compared to mana conservation, would be nice if spell schools sub skills where added to meditation.
also some numbers
Pungement mist = 40 mana
Eye rot = 30 mana
rank 90 Spell = 18 mana
rank 50 spell = 15 mana
but i agree to spell schools sub skills needs to be added to meditation, but mana conservation is not a must, or decides a battle so many other things will do that instead.
It wouln`t ruin the game if AV redused the grind significantly. I know some might think DF would be like quake if they did, but with the constant need for gear and mats, I disagree. If it was true a faster grind would turn DF into Quake, then all we have now is Quake with a grind.
Darkfall isn`t about leveling up like most other mmos, Darkfall is all about end game. Unlike other mmos, Darkfall has a great endgame. It is the wars and politics that make DF shine. If you have taken part in a large sea battle or an epic siege, you will never be satisfied with an instanced battleground again.
We do alot of PVE to replace our lost gear. What makes DF pve fun is not the NPCs AI, it is the danger you have from getting jumped. If I have acquired a lot of valuables from pve, every strange sound makes it feel like I`m playing a horror game. I hate killing NPCs and the thought of losing my hard work makes me jumpy.
I do hope the armor specilization will remove the level grind. I have played for two years, but still I macro attended as we speak. I have only dexterity left to meditate, but the number of spells I still need to grind is huge.
Hardcore PvP can be for anyone, it is the insane grind that is hardcore in DFO. It is fail to disguise the "hardcore pvp" behind the "hardcore grind".
I am a "themepark-rager"; those games gets the very worst out of me, which DFO I get a quite different personality & the way I am acting in game. Still, the grind is unbearable for me. So it was for a lot of friends of mine too; they just couldnt do insane powergrind + afk-macroing for months to be competetive. They saw no point in that, and left.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
In that case, it is worst then i thought. We basically have to grind every spell school to 100. Meditation sux since you cannot raise your sub school skills. The only school i dont got any trouble when it comes to mana cost is fire school. I can spam these spells all day without the need to regen all the time. When i have to use other spell schools, its worst. After a couple of cast, i have to start transfering. I got over 75 INT.
My point still stand, you have to macro these school endlessly in order to compete. Running out of mana sux.
Im watching a PVP video as we speak. These players can cast all the time and they still got 50% mana left.
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So you say we can't make sweeping generalizations about how this is the best game on the market for PvP yet you're allowed to say most people don't care for this type of leveling system? Hm. Two way streets are fun, aren't they!