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Is combat always this slow?
marinrider
Member UncommonPosts: 1,556
I would like to start off by telling you that my current character in this game is a Level 11 Man Guardian. I've played some other classes to around the same point so I understand that my scope of the full range of the game is limited. In other words, I'm not here to bash the game, just a simple question.
So, on to my point. I love how this game looks, and I love the atmosphere. Thats not even mentioning that I can run it on Very high settings using my built in Intel HD graphics on my laptop (Huge plus!). But from the few characters I've played I have noticed that combat always feels very slow to me. I mean slow in two ways.
The first being that combat does not feel very actiony. I dont get the sense that I'm an amazing warrior slicing and dicing people if you understand what I mean. For example, in games like Aion and WoW, I felt like each one of my attacks was powerful and it looked powerful when I used it.
The second version of slow is that combat feels sluggish. I feel like I press a button and then the action happens later (and this is not a lag issue). I dont feel like the game has a good responsivness that I expect.
So this brings me to the question I stated, does combat get any faster or have a more "epic" feel to it later on in the game? And if there is no hope of that with the Guardian (which I rather like as a class) then which class suits my needs more?
Comments
the combat is a bit slower then other games to put the attention to leveling etc. more then GO TO MAX LEVEL!
thereby, idd at lvl 11, its pretty early in the game and ull get alot more attacks and spells on your hands which increases ur combat possibilties....i myself aint that excited about guardian since i find it an tank class and im more of fastpaced but sometime repetitive charging, therefor i choose an rune-keeper...i think rune-keepers, loremasters and hunters are nice combat with alot of different uses when attacking but thats yust my opinion and everyone has something else :P
if u think u like the concept of guardian, try to keep training for a while now...if u still dont like it at lvl 30, then its surely not ur class.
https://ashesofcreation.com/r/Y4U3PQCASUPJ5SED
I play a guardian, lvl 33 Dwarf.
I've been playing the game on and off for quite some time... even after the combat pace changes the guardian is still kinda slow compared to other classes (champions, hunters, maybe captains are as slow). You rely a lot in reactive spells (your best ones) with or without (not so much) a shield. If you already got the 2 first combos for blocking and the 2 for Parrying and still u dont like it, try a champion.
Unless u really wanna tank, then try a warden.
The combat in LOTRO is a different pace then some other mmos, I like the pace. It is not real time but I feel pretty strong and that I have a lot of options during battle. I like that I have time to adjust my view as I fight. That is how I make combat fun. I am a combatant and a film maker at the same time. I love changing my views to see all the action. So your question "does it get faster" is hard to answer. Yes it does as you gain more spells and have more decisions to make but it will never feel like real time combat. I get totally engaged in the battles in LOTRO.
well, that's because it's not actiony. I loved Aion and WoW is WoW but their combat systems were very unrealistic.
Not to say that LOTRO is going for mount and blade realism but it's not an action game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Well, for the first point you really aren't the hero. You are just a character in the back story. That isn't to say you aren't important but let's be honest you aren't the main character. Also, they went for a little more realism over other games. No swords the length of ten men and stuff like that. Nothing to flashy, minus the Runekeeper but even that was explained as "It's not actually happening. It's just to show you that you are doing something." I think that was how they explained it. I will say once you start gaining levels and new skills the feeling does change where you feel more like an almost main character with cool skills.
On to the second part. It's all about timing. You either have to get used to the timing of your special abilities buttons in conjuction with auto-attack or you need to shut off auto-attack altogether. However if you shut off auto-attack and spam your skills you will be left with no power to even perform said skills.
Personally, I never really noticed a difference between any of the MMOs and their combat styles other than DDOs.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
Yes combat in this game is slow compared to other, more modern games.
That said:
You are a Guardian, which is the tanking class and generally the least effective (and complicated) offensively, at least when not tanking.
It's basically like saying you never catch any passes when you choose to be an offensive lineman.
Try a Champ or Warden. Or a Loremaster or Burglar if you want to have to think while you fight.
You are also only 11, combat in this game is simple early on. Later on as you get dozens of more skills, it become more complicated and requires more effort. Even the Guardian, if you use Overpower (a 2 handed weapon stance) has a few options
R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there
@Trance, don't get me wrong, but damn if your not the most negative regular poster i know in like ... the whole internet MMO scene. You have the uncanny ability to make an issue out of everything, the stereotypical "the glass is half empty"-guy. Most people who complain half as much as you do are fed up and gone after a couple weeks of it, gz on your stamina i guess.
@OP, LotRO uses a queued skill system. As a melee class your attacks appear to be instant, but they are not, they are usually just fast. The attacks have:
1. A animation timer which completes as the animation of your chars attack completes(atleast it should).
2. A internal timer which tells when the effect happens. Most easy seen with two/three part attacks while toggling haste on/off(champion), they don't hit at once, but after each other. This is usually(but not always) similar in lenght to the animation timer. Think of the animation timer as a "showtimer" clientside, and the internal timer as the actual duration of an attack serverside.
This is what makes combat feel sluggish in LotRO, in other games most melee attacks only take up as much time as the global CD and the time between your attacks when staying with instants is always the same(the GCD). In LotRO the animation time varies, some skills animate really fast, while others take quite a bit longer than the GCD.
This obviously is a problem since you don't have a clear rythm unless you always use your skills in exactly the same order, which is why LotRO uses a Skillqueue 1 command deep. For example if you order an skill while another is in its internal timer phase it gets stored and executed once the current skill finishes its execution. This is most easily seen with long induction skills like mounting your horse. If you start mounting your horse and immediatly order a tracking skill(which can be used on horse) next it will have to wait till the long mounting animation gets executed.
Thats what makes LotRO seem unresponsive. Really its not though, the skills just have longer animations and Turbine tries to prevent clipping of skills as much as possible.
This is obviously strongest felt with classes that have long skill animation times(champion, guardian, some captain skills), and least felt with classes that have inductions instead, because the end of the induction usually also means the end of the animation, thus you can immediatly start another skill.
Classes that suffer the least from this are imho: Minstrel, RK, LM, Warden, Burglar(has one annoying regular skill though that stands out).
So to answer your original question: No it doesn't change later on, especially for the guardian. A attack that is slowing down your skill execution now, due to having a long animation time that is blocking other skills, will also slow down your skill executions later on.
Haste though does affect this, some classes can get pretty high haste values of 40% and more, which greatly mitigates this as it fully affect Animation time. But afaik the guardian is not among these classes. Warden though is also a tank class, and the basic 3 builders he uses for his gambits all have a animation time pretty close to the GCD, which makes them feel like instants. He can also reach pretty high haste, which makes his attacks seem really fast, and later on can build his gambits with true instant skills that do not have a animation time. So he starts of better then the guardian, then gets more haste and later on even true instant builders. One of the reasons its my main tbh, cause this very issue annoys me myself.
The obvious advantage though is that you don't have to hammer skills, if you want to do an a+b combo you simply press the corresponding buttons and watch the show. However, if you press a+b+c while a is still animating b will be replaced by c due to the command queue only being one command deep. So either slow down with your buttonpresses, or play a class limited by inductions & GCD instead of animation time, both will make combat seem to be quicker(though it won't be, if you sit down with a stopwatch combat isn't actually slower than on other games, it just feels slower which admittedly is just as bad).
I havent played LotRO for a while now, but if memory serves, the Guardian class will need to BLOCK incoming attacks in order to open up a chain of skills.
This by default will make your gameplay seem slow since you will HAVE to block atleast once to be able to use a skill among your (then) limited repertoire of skills. The burglars also have to face this dilemma, since the skills that open up after scoring critical hits (sometimes) deal much better damage than skills that they can initiate a fight with.
All in all, I personally found the guardian class very uninteresting when compared to a Warden. Warden's gameplay is completely different from all other classes combined (with the arcade style combo moves) and you get to initiate a fight with ranged attacks which is always a time saver. All this while being the "dubious" tank class at mid to high end level setting makes it a very interesting class to play for anyone wanting to roll a tank. I must admit though, that the gambit(combo) build up is slow at the start but once you fire it out and aggro half a dozen mobs in range, the action is anything but slow from then on.
I would advice you to level up a bit and head over to the Bree area where you`ll start running the Barrows instances and skirmishes at around lvl 20 and the pace picks up from there on. And this bit goes for any MMO, but get into a party/fellowship while grinding quests and even boring boar hunting wont seem all that much of a drag, especically if said fellowship has a burglar to start maneuvers with.
True, unless you use the 2-hander stance, Overpower. Which isn't that complex, but does make the skill chains up to you, not reactive (for the most part, there are still some for critical hits).
And really, unless you are tanking, there is no need to not use Overpower. Other than the obvious necessity to have 2 different weapons...
R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there
Actually I might disagree on that.
as someone who solos quite a bit I've found that thougth overpower is excellent, if you start gathering adds it quickly becomes a burden.
I've used less overpower and more of the parry stance.
then again, I'm more than willing to go places where one will get adds more often than not. I like being able to be surrounded by enemies and have them all lying at my feet after I'm done with them.
Of course part of that is also how you are traited.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
This may have nothing to do with your problem but I found LOTRO to have a freeze-slight lag problem especially when the Quest tracker is turned on , many have complained about this but they do nothing to correct it. I have noticed it when I go to attack and it does seem smoother with quest tracker turned off and attack seems faster. On the other hand LOTRO does have slower attacking. Did'nt they put in something which would bring animations up to speed not to long ago? Ya there is something in options that speeds up combat I believe.
I have a lot of love for Lotro, but I agree with the OP on this one. Combat to me in this game feels like I'm underwater. I have several characters around level 40ish, and while I have more things to click, it still feels sluggish in combat. And I'm an anti-console, take my time kind of player. In fact, I would say that combat is probably one of my least favorite things about this otherwise wonderful game.
Sadly, combat does not get faster and that is one of the main reasons I stay away from this game. I have 5 characters, 3 of which are max or close to, and I can tell you this: get ready for induction and more non-responsive action! I really wonder if they devs asked themselves if this would be actually be fun this way.
I think where it shines is in group play, where you also have fellowship manouvres. I had a friend from WoW try this game with the guardian and it was the most frustrating 10 minutes of his life. It's sad, I think it's one of the major hinderances of this game (along with the grindy trait system, but that's another story).
If you want a more responsive melee, I suggest the Warden. They can tank, melee-dps and stay alive for a lot of fights. Give it a shot!
I have played:
Hunter (65) - the one thing that dismays me about this class is that most of skills are induction based, missing the twitch feel of pulling a bow quickly. Good solo class, but lacks fluidity.
Minstrel (65) - the damage spec of this class is fun but in terms of numbers it can't compete. Healing is a chore due to the animation delays and induction times.
Loremaster (56) - i have a love/hate relationship with this class. It can be fun and it can be downright ragequit-inducing. for a supposedly crowd control class, you get only a few snares and they have recharges that hinder it's usefulness (like in Moria). Also you can activate your skill and a pet skill at the same time. In fact, the pet has an even longer wait time before it activates a skill and even sometimes forgets it's in battle.
Runekeeper (48) - it's a glass gannon but it's fun. I actually enjoying healing on this character more than my minstrel. my only complaint really is that the attunement does not last long. Let's say you burn down one mob and take 3 seconds to get to the mob 10ft away, your attunement is lost. It's just not intuitive or fluid.
Captain (30) - Good class with well rounded abilities, again melee skills which should be more responsive are not. This character really shines in group settings. Pet problems are abound in this toon, just like the LM.
LoTRO is a good game and has a great community for the most part. If you can look past the 2 major flaws of combat slowness and trait grinding, it's a good game.
Yes LOTRO's combat is somewhat slower comparing to other MMOs, and it's even slower playing as a Guardian.
Still a really great game, try to get to atleast lvl 30-35 to taste some early 3 man instances and play with your toon.
Or skirmishes to learn how to play in a group and learn your class.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Yes, combat is very slow and boring and it does not really get any faster.
I play a champion, now level 55 with all the attack speed skills, speed buffs, deeps, legendary skills (which are doing even less damage than the normal skills.... go figure) , etc... and this class is still slow boring and certainly NOT a DPS class (which it is supposed to be).
Combat is a huge failure in this game, it's not fun at all. Since launch (3 years?) I made only 55 levels because it just isn't fun and the only reason I am still playing from time to time is the RGP part.
I like the slower, more deliberate pace of combat in this game. Maybe that's why the community is so good in LOTRO, it's composed of more mature (ie. old) folks like me and my friends. The cafeinated twitch players are mostly in other games.
Silly comment and very typical of SOME of the lotro playerbase. While I think the community is for the most part great, there are quite a few of this type of player in the community who parrot some strong sterotypes and wear the bashing of anything not lotro like a badge of honor or any discussion about flaws/raiding or group content are met with the same types of responses under the guise of "we're mature and you're not"