This game has become very solo friendly, and after playing that p.o.s. Evercrack a fighter can be soloed to max level in DDO. It is easier as a healer or caster, but can be done with melee. When you make max level you can reincarnate into a more powerful form unlike any other game and play the class you like best with your own original character. That is a vast improvement over any other game.
The fact that DDO can be soloed to high level by any character is one of its worst qualities. DDO has been dumbed down to the point it poses no challenge to a decent game player.
Reincarnate into a more powerful character is needed why? If you can solo to max level in DDO what challenge is posed for a reincarnated one? The answer is there is none.
Yeah it can be soloed on solo & normal difficulties, but after a few levels it becomes damn hard to run things solo on hard mode, and pretty much impossible on elite mode regardless of character & gear. The higher difficulties will net you more XP and better treasures, as well as gaining more Favor which over time grants you more Turbine Points and unlocks some of the special classes & races that you normally need to buy.
Reincarnate allows you to build your character into a new class but with certain bonuses from maxing out your original class.
Its not that its ability to solo makes it bad at all. The option to take the longer & easier route with less rewards vs the tougher route with better xp and better rewards is what makes it good. Some people prefer to just play casually and have an easier experience, but the game doesnt force you to play that way and vice cersa for those who want mor eof a challenge and prefer to run hard & elite modes. Options are ALWAYS a good thing. Locking everyone into 1 playstyle is what makes so many MMOs bad, and causes people to grow bored with them easily.
One of the big things that makes it interesting is the overall playstyle of the game and little side things that you can do if you choose, and in some cases are required. For example, in most standard MMOs, it doesnt really matte rmuch what class you pick, youre going to be doing the same thing.... killing stuff to accomplish a quest. But in DDO youve got options like playing a rogue who specializes in things like disabling traps and finding/unlocking hidden passages & treasures. In Normal mode, a Rogue isnt usually needed as the traps arent very tough to get by. But in the higher difficulties, if you dont have a rogue with you to disable traps youre going to have one hell of a time surviving through the traps in many of the dungeons, and will most likely just get killed instantly if youre not very lucky. What other games have things like that in place where you have specialist classes that function like Rogues in DDO for assisting parties on their adventures? Theres usually no sort of trap system, or a trap system where the traps are simply there, and youre going to get hit by them and nothing you can do about it like having someone disable them. It's usually just a game of kill stuff, tank, and heal with no other roles to play.
DDO is simply not a challenge. You can solo on Normal and Hard too easily as far as I am concerned and can do elite with just a couple of people too easily.
I know what reicarnate gets you, I have played since the second week of release over 5 years ago. My point is the game has no reason to need reicarnate since there is ZERO added challenge from it. Other then needing to grind more the extra EXP needed to level.
Rogues in DDO that only do traps and find doors are despised. No one wants to play with a character that can not do what DDO requires, KILLING monsters. DDOs traps are simply there as well. Way too many are avoidable and since they are almostr all static in location well known after just a couple of runs through any dungeon and DDO has not nearly enough of those. I run nearly rogue free about 95% of the time. They are not nearly as needed as they should be.
You dont even make sense... Who EVER said reincarnate is supposed to add more of a challenge or make things more difficult? You are insisting its a problem because it doesnt offer more of a challenge, but nobody has ever suggested, including Turbine themselves, that it is intended as a challenge. In fact its pretty obvious that it is intended to be an easier run through the game on your reincarntaed character because you have bonuses that you didnt have the first time. Its just one of those things that isnt required, but is a nice option for those who enjoy things like completionism (maxing out every class, getting every bit of favor, all the rare items, etc). Would it make sense to offer something like reincarnation, which you pay for, as something that makes the game harder? How many people do you think would buy something that just make sthe game more of a pain in the ass?
I find it funny too that you claim to have been playing so long, but yet both in this and the other thread youre insisting on things which are just plain not true about the game or it splayers. When was the last time you were even on? Ceratin rogue builds might not be sought after by certain types of players/guilds, but ive seen a decent amount of people wanting to run quests on hard & elite who specifically look for a trap rogue in chat. Are they the most coveted class in the game that everyone has to have? No. But they do have their place in the game and there is some demand for them, though it is pretty situational.
Besides that, sometimes trap rogues and other custom builds are just plain fun to play for a change of pace from your usual killing / speed run builds and offer different types of challenges. I play one myself sometimes who specializes in traps, stealth, and finding hidden stuff with just enough combat ability that i can usually squeak by doing things solo or with just a hireleing with me. Its a nice break from my monk and wiz sometimes just to go sneaking about trying to get by killing as little as possible and doing a bit of treasure hunting.
If youve turned the entire game into being just about killing stuff, and cant find enjoyment or purpose in anything else it seems like kind of a personal problem to me. That doesnt mean other players, especially new people wanting to check out the game or those returning after a long time, wont find those other things enjoyable. The point is in DDO you actually have the option to do those things like having highly customized builds that serve specific purposes aside from "which class/build just roflstomps everything in the game solo". Its one of the only games that offers that choice. Nearly every other game is all about having a cookie cutter build that outperforms everything else in every way, and building even slightly differently just gimps the hell out of your character and serves no purpose at all.
As far as the difficulty. You claim its too easy, but then say elite can be done with just a few people so its too easy too. So um... why dont you try soloing everything elite if youre looking for a challenge? Nobody is forcing you to group with that many people, you are just insisting on maximizing the speed of the elite run, which of course is going to be making it as easy as possible. The challenge is there if you want it, youre simply choosing not to take the challenge an dthen saying it sthe games fault for being too easy.
First any rogue can be a trap rogue, it takes no skill and you can do both huge damage and all traps with no compromise. This is why TRAP rogues are useless.
The game was built for groups, hence there should be a challenge for a group. Saying solo elite is simply ignoring the fact the game was built for group play. Thank you for not understanding these simple facts and not knowing anything about the game as it was before the simple minded showed up and needed this game to be reduced to simple for them.
My point in reincarnation is IT IS A WASTE OF MONEY. you are paying to make an easy game easier.
This game has become very solo friendly, and after playing that p.o.s. Evercrack a fighter can be soloed to max level in DDO. It is easier as a healer or caster, but can be done with melee. When you make max level you can reincarnate into a more powerful form unlike any other game and play the class you like best with your own original character. That is a vast improvement over any other game.
The fact that DDO can be soloed to high level by any character is one of its worst qualities. DDO has been dumbed down to the point it poses no challenge to a decent game player.
Reincarnate into a more powerful character is needed why? If you can solo to max level in DDO what challenge is posed for a reincarnated one? The answer is there is none.
Yeah it can be soloed on solo & normal difficulties, but after a few levels it becomes damn hard to run things solo on hard mode, and pretty much impossible on elite mode regardless of character & gear. The higher difficulties will net you more XP and better treasures, as well as gaining more Favor which over time grants you more Turbine Points and unlocks some of the special classes & races that you normally need to buy.
Reincarnate allows you to build your character into a new class but with certain bonuses from maxing out your original class.
Its not that its ability to solo makes it bad at all. The option to take the longer & easier route with less rewards vs the tougher route with better xp and better rewards is what makes it good. Some people prefer to just play casually and have an easier experience, but the game doesnt force you to play that way and vice cersa for those who want mor eof a challenge and prefer to run hard & elite modes. Options are ALWAYS a good thing. Locking everyone into 1 playstyle is what makes so many MMOs bad, and causes people to grow bored with them easily.
One of the big things that makes it interesting is the overall playstyle of the game and little side things that you can do if you choose, and in some cases are required. For example, in most standard MMOs, it doesnt really matte rmuch what class you pick, youre going to be doing the same thing.... killing stuff to accomplish a quest. But in DDO youve got options like playing a rogue who specializes in things like disabling traps and finding/unlocking hidden passages & treasures. In Normal mode, a Rogue isnt usually needed as the traps arent very tough to get by. But in the higher difficulties, if you dont have a rogue with you to disable traps youre going to have one hell of a time surviving through the traps in many of the dungeons, and will most likely just get killed instantly if youre not very lucky. What other games have things like that in place where you have specialist classes that function like Rogues in DDO for assisting parties on their adventures? Theres usually no sort of trap system, or a trap system where the traps are simply there, and youre going to get hit by them and nothing you can do about it like having someone disable them. It's usually just a game of kill stuff, tank, and heal with no other roles to play.
DDO is simply not a challenge. You can solo on Normal and Hard too easily as far as I am concerned and can do elite with just a couple of people too easily.
I know what reicarnate gets you, I have played since the second week of release over 5 years ago. My point is the game has no reason to need reicarnate since there is ZERO added challenge from it. Other then needing to grind more the extra EXP needed to level.
Rogues in DDO that only do traps and find doors are despised. No one wants to play with a character that can not do what DDO requires, KILLING monsters. DDOs traps are simply there as well. Way too many are avoidable and since they are almostr all static in location well known after just a couple of runs through any dungeon and DDO has not nearly enough of those. I run nearly rogue free about 95% of the time. They are not nearly as needed as they should be.
You dont even make sense... Who EVER said reincarnate is supposed to add more of a challenge or make things more difficult? You are insisting its a problem because it doesnt offer more of a challenge, but nobody has ever suggested, including Turbine themselves, that it is intended as a challenge. In fact its pretty obvious that it is intended to be an easier run through the game on your reincarntaed character because you have bonuses that you didnt have the first time. Its just one of those things that isnt required, but is a nice option for those who enjoy things like completionism (maxing out every class, getting every bit of favor, all the rare items, etc). Would it make sense to offer something like reincarnation, which you pay for, as something that makes the game harder? How many people do you think would buy something that just make sthe game more of a pain in the ass?
I find it funny too that you claim to have been playing so long, but yet both in this and the other thread youre insisting on things which are just plain not true about the game or it splayers. When was the last time you were even on? Ceratin rogue builds might not be sought after by certain types of players/guilds, but ive seen a decent amount of people wanting to run quests on hard & elite who specifically look for a trap rogue in chat. Are they the most coveted class in the game that everyone has to have? No. But they do have their place in the game and there is some demand for them, though it is pretty situational.
Besides that, sometimes trap rogues and other custom builds are just plain fun to play for a change of pace from your usual killing / speed run builds and offer different types of challenges. I play one myself sometimes who specializes in traps, stealth, and finding hidden stuff with just enough combat ability that i can usually squeak by doing things solo or with just a hireleing with me. Its a nice break from my monk and wiz sometimes just to go sneaking about trying to get by killing as little as possible and doing a bit of treasure hunting.
If youve turned the entire game into being just about killing stuff, and cant find enjoyment or purpose in anything else it seems like kind of a personal problem to me. That doesnt mean other players, especially new people wanting to check out the game or those returning after a long time, wont find those other things enjoyable. The point is in DDO you actually have the option to do those things like having highly customized builds that serve specific purposes aside from "which class/build just roflstomps everything in the game solo". Its one of the only games that offers that choice. Nearly every other game is all about having a cookie cutter build that outperforms everything else in every way, and building even slightly differently just gimps the hell out of your character and serves no purpose at all.
As far as the difficulty. You claim its too easy, but then say elite can be done with just a few people so its too easy too. So um... why dont you try soloing everything elite if youre looking for a challenge? Nobody is forcing you to group with that many people, you are just insisting on maximizing the speed of the elite run, which of course is going to be making it as easy as possible. The challenge is there if you want it, youre simply choosing not to take the challenge an dthen saying it sthe games fault for being too easy.
First any rogue can be a trap rogue, it takes no skill and you can do both huge damage and all traps with no compromise. This is why TRAP rogues are useless.
The game was built for groups, hence there should be a challenge for a group. Saying solo elite is simply ignoring the fact the game was built for group play. Thank you for not understanding these simple facts and not knowing anything about the game as it was before the simple minded showed up and needed this game to be reduced to simple for them.
My point in reincarnation is IT IS A WASTE OF MONEY. you are paying to make an easy game easier.
1st, you may want to improve your reading comprehension before spouting off about others being simple minded. Did i say the rogue is PURELY a trap rogue? No i didnt,. I built him specifically to not be much of a DPSer, i have other classes for that and i get bored of doing the same thing all the time. Yes they can do damage, and yes they can do traps if those are the only 2 things they focus on, but there are other things which would be more useful for a COMBAT rogue instead of putting points into things like disabling traps. Yes you can build a combination of DPS & trap disabler, but it would not be an optimal pure dps build.
Thank you for not understanding anything about optimal/pure builds vs hybrid builds that serve more than 1 purpose. I would think after 5 years you would have at least some clue what the difference is.
And no, that wasnt your point about reincarnation. Your point about reincarnation was that it doesnt add an extra challenge.... yet NOBODY claimed it did in the 1st place. So why would you be complaining about it not offering an extra challenge? Youre bitching about a point that nobody even mentioned and you just decided to complain for no reason. Your new so called point is pointless. Like i said, why would anybody pay money to make a game harder? If you want harder, you can do as i said and change the way youre playing and do it solo or in smaller groups, or hell even with a large group but with different classes (try running elites with no healers?). Why pay for what is already there for free? People tend to pay to make things easier & more efficient, not the opposite. If cash shops followed your logic and made games harder they would fail. Would you pay extra money for something that has the sole purpose of giving your car worse gas mileage just because its "more challenging" to get somewhere, or would you pay for something that will make you get better gas mileage? Its common freaking sense.
This game has become very solo friendly, and after playing that p.o.s. Evercrack a fighter can be soloed to max level in DDO. It is easier as a healer or caster, but can be done with melee. When you make max level you can reincarnate into a more powerful form unlike any other game and play the class you like best with your own original character. That is a vast improvement over any other game.
The fact that DDO can be soloed to high level by any character is one of its worst qualities. DDO has been dumbed down to the point it poses no challenge to a decent game player.
Reincarnate into a more powerful character is needed why? If you can solo to max level in DDO what challenge is posed for a reincarnated one? The answer is there is none.
Yeah it can be soloed on solo & normal difficulties, but after a few levels it becomes damn hard to run things solo on hard mode, and pretty much impossible on elite mode regardless of character & gear. The higher difficulties will net you more XP and better treasures, as well as gaining more Favor which over time grants you more Turbine Points and unlocks some of the special classes & races that you normally need to buy.
Reincarnate allows you to build your character into a new class but with certain bonuses from maxing out your original class.
Its not that its ability to solo makes it bad at all. The option to take the longer & easier route with less rewards vs the tougher route with better xp and better rewards is what makes it good. Some people prefer to just play casually and have an easier experience, but the game doesnt force you to play that way and vice cersa for those who want mor eof a challenge and prefer to run hard & elite modes. Options are ALWAYS a good thing. Locking everyone into 1 playstyle is what makes so many MMOs bad, and causes people to grow bored with them easily.
One of the big things that makes it interesting is the overall playstyle of the game and little side things that you can do if you choose, and in some cases are required. For example, in most standard MMOs, it doesnt really matte rmuch what class you pick, youre going to be doing the same thing.... killing stuff to accomplish a quest. But in DDO youve got options like playing a rogue who specializes in things like disabling traps and finding/unlocking hidden passages & treasures. In Normal mode, a Rogue isnt usually needed as the traps arent very tough to get by. But in the higher difficulties, if you dont have a rogue with you to disable traps youre going to have one hell of a time surviving through the traps in many of the dungeons, and will most likely just get killed instantly if youre not very lucky. What other games have things like that in place where you have specialist classes that function like Rogues in DDO for assisting parties on their adventures? Theres usually no sort of trap system, or a trap system where the traps are simply there, and youre going to get hit by them and nothing you can do about it like having someone disable them. It's usually just a game of kill stuff, tank, and heal with no other roles to play.
DDO is simply not a challenge. You can solo on Normal and Hard too easily as far as I am concerned and can do elite with just a couple of people too easily.
I know what reicarnate gets you, I have played since the second week of release over 5 years ago. My point is the game has no reason to need reicarnate since there is ZERO added challenge from it. Other then needing to grind more the extra EXP needed to level.
Rogues in DDO that only do traps and find doors are despised. No one wants to play with a character that can not do what DDO requires, KILLING monsters. DDOs traps are simply there as well. Way too many are avoidable and since they are almostr all static in location well known after just a couple of runs through any dungeon and DDO has not nearly enough of those. I run nearly rogue free about 95% of the time. They are not nearly as needed as they should be.
You dont even make sense... Who EVER said reincarnate is supposed to add more of a challenge or make things more difficult? You are insisting its a problem because it doesnt offer more of a challenge, but nobody has ever suggested, including Turbine themselves, that it is intended as a challenge. In fact its pretty obvious that it is intended to be an easier run through the game on your reincarntaed character because you have bonuses that you didnt have the first time. Its just one of those things that isnt required, but is a nice option for those who enjoy things like completionism (maxing out every class, getting every bit of favor, all the rare items, etc). Would it make sense to offer something like reincarnation, which you pay for, as something that makes the game harder? How many people do you think would buy something that just make sthe game more of a pain in the ass?
I find it funny too that you claim to have been playing so long, but yet both in this and the other thread youre insisting on things which are just plain not true about the game or it splayers. When was the last time you were even on? Ceratin rogue builds might not be sought after by certain types of players/guilds, but ive seen a decent amount of people wanting to run quests on hard & elite who specifically look for a trap rogue in chat. Are they the most coveted class in the game that everyone has to have? No. But they do have their place in the game and there is some demand for them, though it is pretty situational.
Besides that, sometimes trap rogues and other custom builds are just plain fun to play for a change of pace from your usual killing / speed run builds and offer different types of challenges. I play one myself sometimes who specializes in traps, stealth, and finding hidden stuff with just enough combat ability that i can usually squeak by doing things solo or with just a hireleing with me. Its a nice break from my monk and wiz sometimes just to go sneaking about trying to get by killing as little as possible and doing a bit of treasure hunting.
If youve turned the entire game into being just about killing stuff, and cant find enjoyment or purpose in anything else it seems like kind of a personal problem to me. That doesnt mean other players, especially new people wanting to check out the game or those returning after a long time, wont find those other things enjoyable. The point is in DDO you actually have the option to do those things like having highly customized builds that serve specific purposes aside from "which class/build just roflstomps everything in the game solo". Its one of the only games that offers that choice. Nearly every other game is all about having a cookie cutter build that outperforms everything else in every way, and building even slightly differently just gimps the hell out of your character and serves no purpose at all.
As far as the difficulty. You claim its too easy, but then say elite can be done with just a few people so its too easy too. So um... why dont you try soloing everything elite if youre looking for a challenge? Nobody is forcing you to group with that many people, you are just insisting on maximizing the speed of the elite run, which of course is going to be making it as easy as possible. The challenge is there if you want it, youre simply choosing not to take the challenge an dthen saying it sthe games fault for being too easy.
First any rogue can be a trap rogue, it takes no skill and you can do both huge damage and all traps with no compromise. This is why TRAP rogues are useless.
The game was built for groups, hence there should be a challenge for a group. Saying solo elite is simply ignoring the fact the game was built for group play. Thank you for not understanding these simple facts and not knowing anything about the game as it was before the simple minded showed up and needed this game to be reduced to simple for them.
My point in reincarnation is IT IS A WASTE OF MONEY. you are paying to make an easy game easier.
1st, you may want to improve your reading comprehension before spouting off about others being simple minded. Did i say the rogue is PURELY a trap rogue? No i didnt,. I built him specifically to not be much of a DPSer, i have other classes for that and i get bored of doing the same thing all the time. Yes they can do damage, and yes they can do traps if those are the only 2 things they focus on, but there are other things which would be more useful for a COMBAT rogue instead of putting points into things like disabling traps. Yes you can build a combination of DPS & trap disabler, but it would not be an optimal pure dps build.
Thank you for not understanding anything about optimal/pure builds vs hybrid builds that serve more than 1 purpose. I would think after 5 years you would have at least some clue what the difference is.
And no, that wasnt your point about reincarnation. Your point about reincarnation was that it doesnt add an extra challenge.... yet NOBODY claimed it did in the 1st place. So why would you be complaining about it not offering an extra challenge? Youre bitching about a point that nobody even mentioned and you just decided to complain for no reason. Your new so called point is pointless. Like i said, why would anybody pay money to make a game harder? If you want harder, you can do as i said and change the way youre playing and do it solo or in smaller groups, or hell even with a large group but with different classes (try running elites with no healers?). Why pay for what is already there for free? People tend to pay to make things easier & more efficient, not the opposite. If cash shops followed your logic and made games harder they would fail. Would you pay extra money for something that has the sole purpose of giving your car worse gas mileage just because its "more challenging" to get somewhere, or would you pay for something that will make you get better gas mileage? Its common freaking sense.
Please tell me what skills a combat rogue would have that a trap rogue would not. ANY rogue can do all traps, Turbine set the bars too low. Everyone knows this. Everyone who played also knows Turbine made this game too easy and that did help them attract the newer crowd. Financially that move was. great.
You keep saying to solo or small group to make the game harder, why do you ignore the fact the game was built for groups? The game should pose a challenge for groups. It does not.
When the game went F2P my brother and i left our old server to start fresh, no money, no twinking nothing but knowledge of the game and how to build a character. We duoed everything until we hit the shroud. Normal, hard, elite it did not matter. The entire game is easy to do with just 2 people.
The whole point is you have the OPTION to build 1, and they can be fun and useful in their own way for the PLAYER, regardless of what a group of elitists think. Not everyone plays a game to fit in with a group of people and play the way they want to play. Its an alternative playstyle, one which isnt offered in pretty much any other MMO. Just because you personally dont like them, doesnt mean someone else wont. At the same time, maybe they dont like pure DPS builds and they think you playing a DPS rogue is stupid. Its all a matter of preference & choice, youre not locked into 1 playstyle. Thats what is great about DDO. Some people may not like your build, but hey guess what, they dont need to play with you then and you can still have fun soloing or playing with a group of people who really dont give a crap about specific builds.
Anyway, youve said you played for so long and have all this knowledge and stuff. Then why on earth is it a problem that you find the game easy now? Do you think everyone come sinto the game with all the experience and knowledge you have? Do you think its as easy for them as it is for you knowing every detail about the game. Its common sens ethat afte rplaying a game for so long its going to become easy, no matter what the developers do. They can add content thats twice a shard as what the old stuff was and guess what would happen... you would find a way to get it done as easily a spossible, practice it and perfect it, and then turn around an dsay youre bored because its too easy now. Thats the way of all things, not just DDO or MMOs in general. Once you learn the ins and outs of a game its going to become easier and easier each time you do it, especially after you learn how to build your character perfectly. But for someone interested in checking out the game for the first time like the OP, it's not going to be anywhere enar as easy, and even moreso if they dont know much about D&D in general.
It may be nitpicking, but rather than complaining that the game itself is too easy, it would have been better to respond to the guy asking by letting him know that after playing for a long time and learning all the details of the game and how to create the best builds and where everything is it becomes an easy game. Him as anew player going in, not knowing much could very well make a terrible build and find the game very challenging if he continues playing with that build. Who knows, they might think a pure strength wizard is a good idea... well maybe not a good idea, but fun to try just for the hell of it.
Theres a lot of little details that people miss and wind up finding out pretty far into the game through things they see in chat and stuff, or realize they screwed something up (i was ina rush and accidentally picked THF instead of TWF on a monk and didnt notice it until i was level 5 and looking at some other feats and wound up having to pay Fred a visit). A new player wouldnt know about the differences between specializing in strength builds and dex builds and which feats & enhancements work best and all that stuff. Figuring all those things out is part of what makes it an interesting game rather than the standard cookie-cutter MMOs.
The whole point is you have the OPTION to build 1, and they can be fun and useful in their own way for the PLAYER, regardless of what a group of elitists think. Not everyone plays a game to fit in with a group of people and play the way they want to play. Its an alternative playstyle, one which isnt offered in pretty much any other MMO. Just because you personally dont like them, doesnt mean someone else wont. At the same time, maybe they dont like pure DPS builds and they think you playing a DPS rogue is stupid. Its all a matter of preference & choice, youre not locked into 1 playstyle. Thats what is great about DDO. Some people may not like your build, but hey guess what, they dont need to play with you then and you can still have fun soloing or playing with a group of people who really dont give a crap about specific builds.
Anyway, youve said you played for so long and have all this knowledge and stuff. Then why on earth is it a problem that you find the game easy now? Do you think everyone come sinto the game with all the experience and knowledge you have? Do you think its as easy for them as it is for you knowing every detail about the game. Its common sens ethat afte rplaying a game for so long its going to become easy, no matter what the developers do. They can add content thats twice a shard as what the old stuff was and guess what would happen... you would find a way to get it done as easily a spossible, practice it and perfect it, and then turn around an dsay youre bored because its too easy now. Thats the way of all things, not just DDO or MMOs in general. Once you learn the ins and outs of a game its going to become easier and easier each time you do it, especially after you learn how to build your character perfectly. But for someone interested in checking out the game for the first time like the OP, it's not going to be anywhere enar as easy, and even moreso if they dont know much about D&D in general.
It may be nitpicking, but rather than complaining that the game itself is too easy, it would have been better to respond to the guy asking by letting him know that after playing for a long time and learning all the details of the game and how to create the best builds and where everything is it becomes an easy game. Him as anew player going in, not knowing much could very well make a terrible build and find the game very challenging if he continues playing with that build. Who knows, they might think a pure strength wizard is a good idea... well maybe not a good idea, but fun to try just for the hell of it.
Theres a lot of little details that people miss and wind up finding out pretty far into the game through things they see in chat and stuff, or realize they screwed something up (i was ina rush and accidentally picked THF instead of TWF on a monk and didnt notice it until i was level 5 and looking at some other feats and wound up having to pay Fred a visit). A new player wouldnt know about the differences between specializing in strength builds and dex builds and which feats & enhancements work best and all that stuff. Figuring all those things out is part of what makes it an interesting game rather than the standard cookie-cutter MMOs.
Once again there is no reason to ever not build a rogue to do DPS BECAUSE every trap skill can be had with ZERO loss of offensive capability. Making a rogue to avoid DPS is a horrible idea. End of story.
My problem with the lack of challenge is with Turbine and their intentional dumbing down of DDO to make money. Once they decided on free to play they went about destroying the game for most Vets. Ask any long time player how easy the game is now even when you start with nothing. Turbine took a great game and weakened it for mass appeal. Thats the problem.
The whole point is you have the OPTION to build 1, and they can be fun and useful in their own way for the PLAYER, regardless of what a group of elitists think. Not everyone plays a game to fit in with a group of people and play the way they want to play. Its an alternative playstyle, one which isnt offered in pretty much any other MMO. Just because you personally dont like them, doesnt mean someone else wont. At the same time, maybe they dont like pure DPS builds and they think you playing a DPS rogue is stupid. Its all a matter of preference & choice, youre not locked into 1 playstyle. Thats what is great about DDO. Some people may not like your build, but hey guess what, they dont need to play with you then and you can still have fun soloing or playing with a group of people who really dont give a crap about specific builds.
Anyway, youve said you played for so long and have all this knowledge and stuff. Then why on earth is it a problem that you find the game easy now? Do you think everyone come sinto the game with all the experience and knowledge you have? Do you think its as easy for them as it is for you knowing every detail about the game. Its common sens ethat afte rplaying a game for so long its going to become easy, no matter what the developers do. They can add content thats twice a shard as what the old stuff was and guess what would happen... you would find a way to get it done as easily a spossible, practice it and perfect it, and then turn around an dsay youre bored because its too easy now. Thats the way of all things, not just DDO or MMOs in general. Once you learn the ins and outs of a game its going to become easier and easier each time you do it, especially after you learn how to build your character perfectly. But for someone interested in checking out the game for the first time like the OP, it's not going to be anywhere enar as easy, and even moreso if they dont know much about D&D in general.
It may be nitpicking, but rather than complaining that the game itself is too easy, it would have been better to respond to the guy asking by letting him know that after playing for a long time and learning all the details of the game and how to create the best builds and where everything is it becomes an easy game. Him as anew player going in, not knowing much could very well make a terrible build and find the game very challenging if he continues playing with that build. Who knows, they might think a pure strength wizard is a good idea... well maybe not a good idea, but fun to try just for the hell of it.
Theres a lot of little details that people miss and wind up finding out pretty far into the game through things they see in chat and stuff, or realize they screwed something up (i was ina rush and accidentally picked THF instead of TWF on a monk and didnt notice it until i was level 5 and looking at some other feats and wound up having to pay Fred a visit). A new player wouldnt know about the differences between specializing in strength builds and dex builds and which feats & enhancements work best and all that stuff. Figuring all those things out is part of what makes it an interesting game rather than the standard cookie-cutter MMOs.
Once again there is no reason to ever not build a rogue to do DPS BECAUSE every trap skill can be had with ZERO loss of offensive capability. Making a rogue to avoid DPS is a horrible idea. End of story.
My problem with the lack of challenge is with Turbine and their intentional dumbing down of DDO to make money. Once they decided on free to play they went about destroying the game for most Vets. Ask any long time player how easy the game is now even when you start with nothing. Turbine took a great game and weakened it for mass appeal. Thats the problem.
So youre able to spend every possible point into getting disable device maxed out, getting all the feats related to disabling, getting all enhancehemnts related to disable device maxed out, and yet somehow those points magically dont get used up and you can spend all those same points into getting even more feats and more enhancements to enhance your damage and survivability as well as your threat reductions & all that so you dont constantly keep aggro on you so the tank can do his job instead of you being the tank? Damn, wish every class was able to spend points without really spending them.....
Its pretty simple to understand. yes you can do dps AND traps, but you will not excel in both. this is just common sense and fact. You can have a better DPS build by not wasting point sin anything to do with traps, and you can have a better trap rogue by not focusing as much on dps & sneak attack enhancements. There are only so many points you can get, and not enough to completely max out both traps and dps. You have to sacrifice points in one for points in the other, just like with any other class. You cant build a DPS rogue and still have the ability to disable every trap in the game, certainly not with much success.
You cant build a full dps & full tank fighter. You can build one that does good in both, but you will not be AS good at either as someone who built a pure dps fighter or a pure tank fighter. You can build a cleric that can do well at both fighting & healing, but you will not be as good as a pure dpser or a pure healer. I dont see how you can argue that somehow a rogue is different and can be as good at 2 things as a pure build in either one.
Requires teamplay, try soloing a mage in the game very hard
MUST love grinding, not just the same monster, but the same set of monsters, as you have to enter instanced dungeons and complete it, to return to the npc char that gave you the quest, to get any exp at all!
Repeating the same quest over and over, is imho BORING!
Going the free to play route, severly limits the game in what type of char you can have! You have to pay to have more choice!
Not being able to rest to regain health, is pathetic. There are set places that you can do this, but when soloing with a weak char such as a mage, don't bother! (Edited to add) You will end up repeating lower level quests, just to develop your char to a point that can handle quests that you should have been able to do earlier!
Play a human necro if you wanna solo as a f2p mage, should solve most issues.
Originally posted by Rokurgepta
First any rogue can be a trap rogue, it takes no skill and you can do both huge damage and all traps with no compromise. This is why TRAP rogues are useless.
Would also like to note that this comment is flat out wrong.
Given the DC saves on traps can get into the 70s you need to have a rogue devote enhancement points and feats that would otherwise be used for combat (or what have you) into their search and disable device skills if nothing else if you don't want them rolling failures and blowing up traps all the time. This does in fact include player buffs such as greater heroism.
There are also plenty of traps that are both unavoidable and lethal even to characters with evasion in DDO.
EDIT: And I've been subbed to this game for five-ish years, paying and playing since the game first hit beta.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
The whole point is you have the OPTION to build 1, and they can be fun and useful in their own way for the PLAYER, regardless of what a group of elitists think. Not everyone plays a game to fit in with a group of people and play the way they want to play. Its an alternative playstyle, one which isnt offered in pretty much any other MMO. Just because you personally dont like them, doesnt mean someone else wont. At the same time, maybe they dont like pure DPS builds and they think you playing a DPS rogue is stupid. Its all a matter of preference & choice, youre not locked into 1 playstyle. Thats what is great about DDO. Some people may not like your build, but hey guess what, they dont need to play with you then and you can still have fun soloing or playing with a group of people who really dont give a crap about specific builds.
Anyway, youve said you played for so long and have all this knowledge and stuff. Then why on earth is it a problem that you find the game easy now? Do you think everyone come sinto the game with all the experience and knowledge you have? Do you think its as easy for them as it is for you knowing every detail about the game. Its common sens ethat afte rplaying a game for so long its going to become easy, no matter what the developers do. They can add content thats twice a shard as what the old stuff was and guess what would happen... you would find a way to get it done as easily a spossible, practice it and perfect it, and then turn around an dsay youre bored because its too easy now. Thats the way of all things, not just DDO or MMOs in general. Once you learn the ins and outs of a game its going to become easier and easier each time you do it, especially after you learn how to build your character perfectly. But for someone interested in checking out the game for the first time like the OP, it's not going to be anywhere enar as easy, and even moreso if they dont know much about D&D in general.
It may be nitpicking, but rather than complaining that the game itself is too easy, it would have been better to respond to the guy asking by letting him know that after playing for a long time and learning all the details of the game and how to create the best builds and where everything is it becomes an easy game. Him as anew player going in, not knowing much could very well make a terrible build and find the game very challenging if he continues playing with that build. Who knows, they might think a pure strength wizard is a good idea... well maybe not a good idea, but fun to try just for the hell of it.
Theres a lot of little details that people miss and wind up finding out pretty far into the game through things they see in chat and stuff, or realize they screwed something up (i was ina rush and accidentally picked THF instead of TWF on a monk and didnt notice it until i was level 5 and looking at some other feats and wound up having to pay Fred a visit). A new player wouldnt know about the differences between specializing in strength builds and dex builds and which feats & enhancements work best and all that stuff. Figuring all those things out is part of what makes it an interesting game rather than the standard cookie-cutter MMOs.
Once again there is no reason to ever not build a rogue to do DPS BECAUSE every trap skill can be had with ZERO loss of offensive capability. Making a rogue to avoid DPS is a horrible idea. End of story.
My problem with the lack of challenge is with Turbine and their intentional dumbing down of DDO to make money. Once they decided on free to play they went about destroying the game for most Vets. Ask any long time player how easy the game is now even when you start with nothing. Turbine took a great game and weakened it for mass appeal. Thats the problem.
So youre able to spend every possible point into getting disable device maxed out, getting all the feats related to disabling, getting all enhancehemnts related to disable device maxed out, and yet somehow those points magically dont get used up and you can spend all those same points into getting even more feats and more enhancements to enhance your damage and survivability as well as your threat reductions & all that so you dont constantly keep aggro on you so the tank can do his job instead of you being the tank? Damn, wish every class was able to spend points without really spending them.....
Its pretty simple to understand. yes you can do dps AND traps, but you will not excel in both. this is just common sense and fact. You can have a better DPS build by not wasting point sin anything to do with traps, and you can have a better trap rogue by not focusing as much on dps & sneak attack enhancements. There are only so many points you can get, and not enough to completely max out both traps and dps. You have to sacrifice points in one for points in the other, just like with any other class. You cant build a DPS rogue and still have the ability to disable every trap in the game, certainly not with much success.
You cant build a full dps & full tank fighter. You can build one that does good in both, but you will not be AS good at either as someone who built a pure dps fighter or a pure tank fighter. You can build a cleric that can do well at both fighting & healing, but you will not be as good as a pure dpser or a pure healer. I dont see how you can argue that somehow a rogue is different and can be as good at 2 things as a pure build in either one.
See the problem is with fighter you can not build a tank and DPS, but a rogue can. Again because Turbine has seen fit to make traps and finding doors easy, you can be full DPS and still do traps just fine. There is no reason to take all those feats for disabling or open lock because you do not need them. You will be beyond the max skills needed. This means you can concentrate feats and enhancements on combat and skill points on skills and use some enhancement points to fill in, but almost all enhancements will be used on combat. The reason i can argue that is because a rogue is more skill dependant for traps and enhancement anf feat for fighting, where a fighter has no skill besides imtimidate to spend points on and would have to split feats and enhancements more to be a tank and a DPSer. Its a simple fact of Rogues being the single best class with skill use. You can be a DPS rogue and have 100% trap success.
You really do not need threat reduction. properly played tanks will not give up aggro to a rogue that is played well. Threat reduction is fine IF you have enhancement points to burn but not needed.
This is the reason so many multiclass builds use rogue. Its way too easy(game design) to max rogue skills even with a multiclass that takes 2 rogue levels.
Requires teamplay, try soloing a mage in the game very hard
MUST love grinding, not just the same monster, but the same set of monsters, as you have to enter instanced dungeons and complete it, to return to the npc char that gave you the quest, to get any exp at all!
Repeating the same quest over and over, is imho BORING!
Going the free to play route, severly limits the game in what type of char you can have! You have to pay to have more choice!
Not being able to rest to regain health, is pathetic. There are set places that you can do this, but when soloing with a weak char such as a mage, don't bother! (Edited to add) You will end up repeating lower level quests, just to develop your char to a point that can handle quests that you should have been able to do earlier!
Play a human necro if you wanna solo as a f2p mage, should solve most issues.
Originally posted by Rokurgepta
First any rogue can be a trap rogue, it takes no skill and you can do both huge damage and all traps with no compromise. This is why TRAP rogues are useless.
Would also like to note that this comment is flat out wrong.
Given the DC saves on traps can get into the 70s you need to have a rogue devote enhancement points and feats that would otherwise be used for combat (or what have you) into their search and disable device skills if nothing else if you don't want them rolling failures and blowing up traps all the time. This does in fact include player buffs such as greater heroism.
There are also plenty of traps that are both unavoidable and lethal even to characters with evasion in DDO.
EDIT: And I've been subbed to this game for five-ish years, paying and playing since the game first hit beta.
You may have been playing as long as me, but you think rogues are tough to have DPS and trap ability on and you would be wrong.
Actually, it's doing quite well. The population is strong. PVP is non-existant. Crafting was recently introduced and I haven't messed around with it. I've been playing very casually for over 1.5 years and am not even close to end game. I think that aspect is like the rest - group up with friends and run instances. Very fun if you get a regular group to play with. Just be aware that the first 4 levels are not a terribly good introduction. The game definitely gets better as it goes.
I was pleasantly surprised when I went from Apprentice to full 5 star Elite in under 2 months. I was pleasantly surprised again when I went from Elite to just barely Hardcore in 2 weeks. Apprentice, here I come!
My problem with the lack of challenge is with Turbine and their intentional dumbing down of DDO to make money. Once they decided on free to play they went about destroying the game for most Vets. Ask any long time player how easy the game is now even when you start with nothing. Turbine took a great game and weakened it for mass appeal. Thats the problem.
Yeah, I can agree to that even though I can understand Turbine. DDO was dying 2 years ago and it was either closing down or changing payment method + making the game more accessable to more players.
Closing it down would have been a lot worse, it is still a smoewhat amusing game and can be fun at times.
A funny thing is that Guildwars also became easier at about the same time, I am not sure if there is a connection...
You may have been playing as long as me, but you think rogues are tough to have DPS and trap ability on and you would be wrong.
Dude I still see those multiclassed players and full rogues that are combat spec blowing traps up all the time.
Fact is if you don't spec to do traps, you will be perfectly capable of failing on them frequently. It's in part because you need at least some int for disable device and to have the skill points necessary for dumping, and also due to the fact that even if you feed the skill every time you level (but nothing else or only a bit through enhancements as you imply) you'd only be hitting in the high 30s and into the 40s if you buff with +5 lockpicks. That gives you 1/3 to 1/2 chance of success at best.
Hence the mechanic rogues and specs that hit into the 50s + on their skill checks.
And this still doesn't include the other skill checks, like how open lock can require 90 in VoN.
EDIT: Gonna log in my rogue to check a couple things. Name is Quis Mei on Argo if ye wanna ever group. ^_^
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
My problem with the lack of challenge is with Turbine and their intentional dumbing down of DDO to make money. Once they decided on free to play they went about destroying the game for most Vets. Ask any long time player how easy the game is now even when you start with nothing. Turbine took a great game and weakened it for mass appeal. Thats the problem.
Yeah, I can agree to that even though I can understand Turbine. DDO was dying 2 years ago and it was either closing down or changing payment method + making the game more accessable to more players.
Closing it down would have been a lot worse, it is still a smoewhat amusing game and can be fun at times.
A funny thing is that Guildwars also became easier at about the same time, I am not sure if there is a connection...
Turbine made the right decision for saving the game no doubt. The loss of 20k Vets who loved the harder game was paid for in a couple of weeks long ago by the change.
It is still a good game, it is not the game it was. Change can be good, this change was more about appealing to the masses then it was improving the game.
You may have been playing as long as me, but you think rogues are tough to have DPS and trap ability on and you would be wrong.
Dude I still see those multiclassed players and full rogues that are combat spec blowing traps up all the time.
Fact is if you don't spec to do traps, you will be perfectly capable of failing on them frequently. It's in part because you need at least some int for disable device and to have the skill points necessary for dumping, and also due to the fact that even if you feed the skill every time you level (but nothing else or only a bit through enhancements as you imply) you'd only be hitting in the high 30s and into the 40s if you buff with +5 lockpicks. That gives you 1/3 to 1/2 chance of success at best.
Hence the mechanic rogues and specs that hit into the 50s + on their skill checks.
And this still doesn't include the other skill checks, like how open lock can require 90 in VoN.
EDIT: Gonna log in my rogue to check a couple things. Name is Quis Mei on Argo if ye wanna ever group. ^_^
Any full rogue that blows traps was built wrong. The problem is Turbine made traps DCs in general too low. You can be full DPS and get all the traps. Maybe not on epic as I do not have the epic DCs handy, but until they make elite harder its way too easy.
Recently duoing quests with a buddy who dual boxes and his rogue 4 or 5 levels below us was able to pop into qeusts and get all the traps on hard and elite. That is too easy on traps. I would love to see Turbine make DDO traps require a dedicated rogue, but they do not.
You may have been playing as long as me, but you think rogues are tough to have DPS and trap ability on and you would be wrong.
Dude I still see those multiclassed players and full rogues that are combat spec blowing traps up all the time.
Fact is if you don't spec to do traps, you will be perfectly capable of failing on them frequently. It's in part because you need at least some int for disable device and to have the skill points necessary for dumping, and also due to the fact that even if you feed the skill every time you level (but nothing else or only a bit through enhancements as you imply) you'd only be hitting in the high 30s and into the 40s if you buff with +5 lockpicks. That gives you 1/3 to 1/2 chance of success at best.
Hence the mechanic rogues and specs that hit into the 50s + on their skill checks.
And this still doesn't include the other skill checks, like how open lock can require 90 in VoN.
This is true only on Epics. Something that new players may never be interested in. I played DDO for 18 months, and never once had any desire to step into Epics.
Multclasses rogues that have a brain will have no trouble getting any trap, sans the one in GH, in the game until Epics.
OP - take what everyone is saying about the ease of soloing with a huge grain of salt. Although I'm sure it is much easier to solo than it used to be, you will find that it is still much more challenging than other games you've played and it is a game that works much better in teams.
I was pleasantly surprised when I went from Apprentice to full 5 star Elite in under 2 months. I was pleasantly surprised again when I went from Elite to just barely Hardcore in 2 weeks. Apprentice, here I come!
Any full rogue that blows traps was built wrong. The problem is Turbine made traps DCs in general too low. You can be full DPS and get all the traps. Maybe not on epic as I do not have the epic DCs handy, but until they make elite harder its way too easy.
Recently duoing quests with a buddy who dual boxes and his rogue 4 or 5 levels below us was able to pop into qeusts and get all the traps on hard and elite. That is too easy on traps. I would love to see Turbine make DDO traps require a dedicated rogue, but they do not.
Well here we go.
Just hopped on and checked my own rogue and am asking about a bit.
A rogue specced the way you are saying would only have ~24 base disable device skill. Buffed they'd have ~35. So I actually highballed my estimate of a rogue specced according to you and how often they'd fail traps.
If we are to beleive what you say and spec in that way, we'd be failing most traps about two thirds to three quarters of the time. In otherwords, you'd be lucky if you actually succeeded.
In other words, even if you aren't a mechanic you have to be putting points into the skill, because gear and buffs alone will not be enough to compensate. You'll be capable of getting away with it sometimes on normal, but come hard you will see a shard decline in any success you used to have, any lvl 20 raid and any attempt at doing elite quests you will fail.
I would have to ask your friend what his stats and spec is. What's his character name, I should be able to look him up on MYDDO.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
OP - take what everyone is saying about the ease of soloing with a huge grain of salt. Although I'm sure it is much easier to solo than it used to be, you will find that it is still much more challenging than other games you've played and it is a game that works much better in teams.
Until you figure out how to build a toon. Basically max dps + high HP with a cleric hireling is going to be very easy to "solo". Make a monk and you can solo with ease without a hireling.
Still, you're right. Its going to be more challening than games like WoW, EQ2 and Rift. I guess that is why I enjoyed it so much.
You may have been playing as long as me, but you think rogues are tough to have DPS and trap ability on and you would be wrong.
Dude I still see those multiclassed players and full rogues that are combat spec blowing traps up all the time.
Fact is if you don't spec to do traps, you will be perfectly capable of failing on them frequently. It's in part because you need at least some int for disable device and to have the skill points necessary for dumping, and also due to the fact that even if you feed the skill every time you level (but nothing else or only a bit through enhancements as you imply) you'd only be hitting in the high 30s and into the 40s if you buff with +5 lockpicks. That gives you 1/3 to 1/2 chance of success at best.
Hence the mechanic rogues and specs that hit into the 50s + on their skill checks.
And this still doesn't include the other skill checks, like how open lock can require 90 in VoN.
This is true only on Epics. Something that new players may never be interested in. I played DDO for 18 months, and never once had any desire to step into Epics.
Multclasses rogues that have a brain will have no trouble getting any trap, sans the one in GH, in the game until Epics.
Back when GH first came out I was in the process of making a Clogue(Cleric Rogue for those who might not know what that meant) and that trap was the only one in the game I could not get. Now making that multiclass split is much easier then it was back then. Much more gear and much easier to aquire.
Any full rogue that blows traps was built wrong. The problem is Turbine made traps DCs in general too low. You can be full DPS and get all the traps. Maybe not on epic as I do not have the epic DCs handy, but until they make elite harder its way too easy.
Recently duoing quests with a buddy who dual boxes and his rogue 4 or 5 levels below us was able to pop into qeusts and get all the traps on hard and elite. That is too easy on traps. I would love to see Turbine make DDO traps require a dedicated rogue, but they do not.
Well here we go.
Just hopped on and checked my own rogue and am asking about a bit.
A rogue specced the way you are saying would only have ~24 base disable device skill. Buffed they'd have ~35. So I actually highballed my estimate of a rogue specced according to you and how often they'd fail traps.
If we are to beleive what you say and spec in that way, we'd be failing most traps about two thirds to three quarters of the time. In otherwords, you'd be lucky if you actually succeeded.
In other words, even if you aren't a mechanic you have to be putting points into the skill, because gear and buffs alone will not be enough to compensate. You'll be capable of getting away with it sometimes on normal, but come hard you will see a shard decline in any success you used to have, any lvl 20 raid and any attempt at doing elite quests you will fail.
I would have to ask your friend what his stats and spec is. What's his character name, I should be able to look him up on MYDDO.
Outside of EPIC content you can make a rogue that gets all traps and still does DPS. Between skill points, gear and buffs there is no problems, except the GH trap.
A couple of enhancement points(which you need to spend anyway to get what you want) will cover you just fine. List all the buffs you use. Include +5 tools and gear and anything else the average player can get.
Just hopped on and checked my own rogue and am asking about a bit.
A rogue specced the way you are saying would only have ~24 base disable device skill. Buffed they'd have ~35. So I actually highballed my estimate of a rogue specced according to you and how often they'd fail traps.
24 base
Minimum +3 from int
Minimum +15 from item
Rogue skill boost +5
Improved Disable Device IV +4
Greater Heroism +4
+5 tools
That's minimum buff of 60. I may even be missing a few buffs, or items, since I haven't played in awhile. Why did you think buffed is only ~35?
Oh wow, I didn't even think of guild ship buffs which boost this even more.
Outside of EPIC content you can make a rogue that gets all traps and still does DPS. Between skill points, gear and buffs there is no problems, except the GH trap.
A couple of enhancement points(which you need to spend anyway to get what you want) will cover you just fine. List all the buffs you use. Include +5 tools and gear and anything else the average player can get.
I actually don't use buffs. Hate making characters that are reliant on temporary things, the presence of other characters, and clickies.
More or less all I use is the normal stuff, the tools and a disable device item. I went to the extreme though as I made a utility rogue, so I'm specifically specced to eliminate the chance of failure, as I see the chance of failure as a pretty bad thing.
And fine, you might be ok with making a rogue that buffs to ~45 to give them a 50% chance on hard VoN or what have you, but failure half the time is, well, failure half the time.
In CoF normal the DCs range from 38 lowest to 74 highest. Only three of the traps in there will a person with those kinda skills be able to disable without a higher chance of failure than success. On normal. On a level 12 quest.
And the skill I mentioned for a level 20 under your spec suggestion is barely enough to cover only a few of the traps.
On normal. A level 20 would fail most of the traps in a lvl 12 quest, on normal.
And you crank it up to hard or elite, there I say good luck.
EDIT: Goleorn I was going by Roku's spec, not a proper spec.
Meaning at best they'd be getting +21 from their random spills in enhancements and their items. If you really wanna nitpick and add +4 for GH then they'd hit +25 and be at 49. That's make my estimate shift to include at best half of that lvl 12 quest I just listed.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Just hopped on and checked my own rogue and am asking about a bit.
A rogue specced the way you are saying would only have ~24 base disable device skill. Buffed they'd have ~35. So I actually highballed my estimate of a rogue specced according to you and how often they'd fail traps.
24 base
Minimum +3 from int
Minimum +15 from item
Rogue skill boost +5
Improved Disable Device IV +4
Greater Heroism +4
+5 tools
That's minimum buff of 60. I may even be missing a few buffs, or items, since I haven't played in awhile. Why did you think buffed is only ~35?
Oh wow, I didn't even think of guild ship buffs which boost this even more.
+5 tools are a +7 to the skill though.
EDIT: Also if you played the pirate themed event they had a few months ago you also have access to some great rogue gear that makes trapsmithing a bunt. I built a ton of gear during the event for a rogue multiclass i plan to reincarnate into one day(yes i dislike reincarnate and think it is a waste of money but I still plan a few). That gear alone makes up for any enhancement i might not take.
Outside of EPIC content you can make a rogue that gets all traps and still does DPS. Between skill points, gear and buffs there is no problems, except the GH trap.
A couple of enhancement points(which you need to spend anyway to get what you want) will cover you just fine. List all the buffs you use. Include +5 tools and gear and anything else the average player can get.
I actually don't use buffs. Hate making characters that are reliant on temporary things, the presence of other characters, and clickies.
More or less all I use is the normal stuff, the tools and a disable device item. I went to the extreme though as I made a utility rogue, so I'm specifically specced to eliminate the chance of failure, as I see the chance of failure as a pretty bad thing.
And fine, you might be ok with making a rogue that buffs to ~45 to give them a 50% chance on hard VoN or what have you, but failure half the time is, well, failure half the time.
In CoF normal the DCs range from 38 lowest to 74 highest. Only three of the traps in there will a person with those kinda skills be able to disable without a higher chance of failure than success. On normal. On a level 12 quest.
And the skill I mentioned for a level 20 under your spec suggestion is barely enough to cover only a few of the traps.
On normal. A level 20 would fail most of the traps in a lvl 12 quest, on normal.
And you crank it up to hard or elite, there I say good luck.
EDIT: Goleorn I was going by Roku's spec, not a proper spec.
Meaning at best they'd be getting +21 from their random spills in enhancements and their items. If you really wanna nitpick and add +4 for GH then they'd hit +25 and be at 49. That's make my estimate shift to include at best half of that lvl 12 quest I just listed.
So you avoid all the easy to get buffs that make up for feats? Well then no wonder your math works out to a level 20 rogue failing a trap on a level 12 quest normal. you have intentionally built a gimp rogue and then try to use it to debate me? Thanks for playing.
Without breaking down the feats you need for DPS and traps I am pretty sure you can even use one or two for traps and still get high DPS. A well built rogue can and does get great DPS and traps. A poorly built one can do either or neither of those.
Not to mention the fact is you can also afford enhancement points with ZERO loss of DPS. So again as i said you can do both with a rogue, unlike most other characters that have a hard time due to such extreme needs for full use the rogue due to so many skills and skill points can do both at high levels.
Comments
First any rogue can be a trap rogue, it takes no skill and you can do both huge damage and all traps with no compromise. This is why TRAP rogues are useless.
The game was built for groups, hence there should be a challenge for a group. Saying solo elite is simply ignoring the fact the game was built for group play. Thank you for not understanding these simple facts and not knowing anything about the game as it was before the simple minded showed up and needed this game to be reduced to simple for them.
My point in reincarnation is IT IS A WASTE OF MONEY. you are paying to make an easy game easier.
1st, you may want to improve your reading comprehension before spouting off about others being simple minded. Did i say the rogue is PURELY a trap rogue? No i didnt,. I built him specifically to not be much of a DPSer, i have other classes for that and i get bored of doing the same thing all the time. Yes they can do damage, and yes they can do traps if those are the only 2 things they focus on, but there are other things which would be more useful for a COMBAT rogue instead of putting points into things like disabling traps. Yes you can build a combination of DPS & trap disabler, but it would not be an optimal pure dps build.
Thank you for not understanding anything about optimal/pure builds vs hybrid builds that serve more than 1 purpose. I would think after 5 years you would have at least some clue what the difference is.
And no, that wasnt your point about reincarnation. Your point about reincarnation was that it doesnt add an extra challenge.... yet NOBODY claimed it did in the 1st place. So why would you be complaining about it not offering an extra challenge? Youre bitching about a point that nobody even mentioned and you just decided to complain for no reason. Your new so called point is pointless. Like i said, why would anybody pay money to make a game harder? If you want harder, you can do as i said and change the way youre playing and do it solo or in smaller groups, or hell even with a large group but with different classes (try running elites with no healers?). Why pay for what is already there for free? People tend to pay to make things easier & more efficient, not the opposite. If cash shops followed your logic and made games harder they would fail. Would you pay extra money for something that has the sole purpose of giving your car worse gas mileage just because its "more challenging" to get somewhere, or would you pay for something that will make you get better gas mileage? Its common freaking sense.
Please tell me what skills a combat rogue would have that a trap rogue would not. ANY rogue can do all traps, Turbine set the bars too low. Everyone knows this. Everyone who played also knows Turbine made this game too easy and that did help them attract the newer crowd. Financially that move was. great.
You keep saying to solo or small group to make the game harder, why do you ignore the fact the game was built for groups? The game should pose a challenge for groups. It does not.
When the game went F2P my brother and i left our old server to start fresh, no money, no twinking nothing but knowledge of the game and how to build a character. We duoed everything until we hit the shroud. Normal, hard, elite it did not matter. The entire game is easy to do with just 2 people.
The whole point is you have the OPTION to build 1, and they can be fun and useful in their own way for the PLAYER, regardless of what a group of elitists think. Not everyone plays a game to fit in with a group of people and play the way they want to play. Its an alternative playstyle, one which isnt offered in pretty much any other MMO. Just because you personally dont like them, doesnt mean someone else wont. At the same time, maybe they dont like pure DPS builds and they think you playing a DPS rogue is stupid. Its all a matter of preference & choice, youre not locked into 1 playstyle. Thats what is great about DDO. Some people may not like your build, but hey guess what, they dont need to play with you then and you can still have fun soloing or playing with a group of people who really dont give a crap about specific builds.
Anyway, youve said you played for so long and have all this knowledge and stuff. Then why on earth is it a problem that you find the game easy now? Do you think everyone come sinto the game with all the experience and knowledge you have? Do you think its as easy for them as it is for you knowing every detail about the game. Its common sens ethat afte rplaying a game for so long its going to become easy, no matter what the developers do. They can add content thats twice a shard as what the old stuff was and guess what would happen... you would find a way to get it done as easily a spossible, practice it and perfect it, and then turn around an dsay youre bored because its too easy now. Thats the way of all things, not just DDO or MMOs in general. Once you learn the ins and outs of a game its going to become easier and easier each time you do it, especially after you learn how to build your character perfectly. But for someone interested in checking out the game for the first time like the OP, it's not going to be anywhere enar as easy, and even moreso if they dont know much about D&D in general.
It may be nitpicking, but rather than complaining that the game itself is too easy, it would have been better to respond to the guy asking by letting him know that after playing for a long time and learning all the details of the game and how to create the best builds and where everything is it becomes an easy game. Him as anew player going in, not knowing much could very well make a terrible build and find the game very challenging if he continues playing with that build. Who knows, they might think a pure strength wizard is a good idea... well maybe not a good idea, but fun to try just for the hell of it.
Theres a lot of little details that people miss and wind up finding out pretty far into the game through things they see in chat and stuff, or realize they screwed something up (i was ina rush and accidentally picked THF instead of TWF on a monk and didnt notice it until i was level 5 and looking at some other feats and wound up having to pay Fred a visit). A new player wouldnt know about the differences between specializing in strength builds and dex builds and which feats & enhancements work best and all that stuff. Figuring all those things out is part of what makes it an interesting game rather than the standard cookie-cutter MMOs.
Once again there is no reason to ever not build a rogue to do DPS BECAUSE every trap skill can be had with ZERO loss of offensive capability. Making a rogue to avoid DPS is a horrible idea. End of story.
My problem with the lack of challenge is with Turbine and their intentional dumbing down of DDO to make money. Once they decided on free to play they went about destroying the game for most Vets. Ask any long time player how easy the game is now even when you start with nothing. Turbine took a great game and weakened it for mass appeal. Thats the problem.
So youre able to spend every possible point into getting disable device maxed out, getting all the feats related to disabling, getting all enhancehemnts related to disable device maxed out, and yet somehow those points magically dont get used up and you can spend all those same points into getting even more feats and more enhancements to enhance your damage and survivability as well as your threat reductions & all that so you dont constantly keep aggro on you so the tank can do his job instead of you being the tank? Damn, wish every class was able to spend points without really spending them.....
Its pretty simple to understand. yes you can do dps AND traps, but you will not excel in both. this is just common sense and fact. You can have a better DPS build by not wasting point sin anything to do with traps, and you can have a better trap rogue by not focusing as much on dps & sneak attack enhancements. There are only so many points you can get, and not enough to completely max out both traps and dps. You have to sacrifice points in one for points in the other, just like with any other class. You cant build a DPS rogue and still have the ability to disable every trap in the game, certainly not with much success.
You cant build a full dps & full tank fighter. You can build one that does good in both, but you will not be AS good at either as someone who built a pure dps fighter or a pure tank fighter. You can build a cleric that can do well at both fighting & healing, but you will not be as good as a pure dpser or a pure healer. I dont see how you can argue that somehow a rogue is different and can be as good at 2 things as a pure build in either one.
Play a human necro if you wanna solo as a f2p mage, should solve most issues.
Would also like to note that this comment is flat out wrong.
Given the DC saves on traps can get into the 70s you need to have a rogue devote enhancement points and feats that would otherwise be used for combat (or what have you) into their search and disable device skills if nothing else if you don't want them rolling failures and blowing up traps all the time. This does in fact include player buffs such as greater heroism.
There are also plenty of traps that are both unavoidable and lethal even to characters with evasion in DDO.
EDIT: And I've been subbed to this game for five-ish years, paying and playing since the game first hit beta.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
See the problem is with fighter you can not build a tank and DPS, but a rogue can. Again because Turbine has seen fit to make traps and finding doors easy, you can be full DPS and still do traps just fine. There is no reason to take all those feats for disabling or open lock because you do not need them. You will be beyond the max skills needed. This means you can concentrate feats and enhancements on combat and skill points on skills and use some enhancement points to fill in, but almost all enhancements will be used on combat. The reason i can argue that is because a rogue is more skill dependant for traps and enhancement anf feat for fighting, where a fighter has no skill besides imtimidate to spend points on and would have to split feats and enhancements more to be a tank and a DPSer. Its a simple fact of Rogues being the single best class with skill use. You can be a DPS rogue and have 100% trap success.
You really do not need threat reduction. properly played tanks will not give up aggro to a rogue that is played well. Threat reduction is fine IF you have enhancement points to burn but not needed.
This is the reason so many multiclass builds use rogue. Its way too easy(game design) to max rogue skills even with a multiclass that takes 2 rogue levels.
You may have been playing as long as me, but you think rogues are tough to have DPS and trap ability on and you would be wrong.
Actually, it's doing quite well. The population is strong. PVP is non-existant. Crafting was recently introduced and I haven't messed around with it. I've been playing very casually for over 1.5 years and am not even close to end game. I think that aspect is like the rest - group up with friends and run instances. Very fun if you get a regular group to play with. Just be aware that the first 4 levels are not a terribly good introduction. The game definitely gets better as it goes.
I was pleasantly surprised when I went from Apprentice to full 5 star Elite in under 2 months. I was pleasantly surprised again when I went from Elite to just barely Hardcore in 2 weeks. Apprentice, here I come!
Yeah, I can agree to that even though I can understand Turbine. DDO was dying 2 years ago and it was either closing down or changing payment method + making the game more accessable to more players.
Closing it down would have been a lot worse, it is still a smoewhat amusing game and can be fun at times.
A funny thing is that Guildwars also became easier at about the same time, I am not sure if there is a connection...
Dude I still see those multiclassed players and full rogues that are combat spec blowing traps up all the time.
Fact is if you don't spec to do traps, you will be perfectly capable of failing on them frequently. It's in part because you need at least some int for disable device and to have the skill points necessary for dumping, and also due to the fact that even if you feed the skill every time you level (but nothing else or only a bit through enhancements as you imply) you'd only be hitting in the high 30s and into the 40s if you buff with +5 lockpicks. That gives you 1/3 to 1/2 chance of success at best.
Hence the mechanic rogues and specs that hit into the 50s + on their skill checks.
And this still doesn't include the other skill checks, like how open lock can require 90 in VoN.
EDIT: Gonna log in my rogue to check a couple things. Name is Quis Mei on Argo if ye wanna ever group. ^_^
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Turbine made the right decision for saving the game no doubt. The loss of 20k Vets who loved the harder game was paid for in a couple of weeks long ago by the change.
It is still a good game, it is not the game it was. Change can be good, this change was more about appealing to the masses then it was improving the game.
Any full rogue that blows traps was built wrong. The problem is Turbine made traps DCs in general too low. You can be full DPS and get all the traps. Maybe not on epic as I do not have the epic DCs handy, but until they make elite harder its way too easy.
Recently duoing quests with a buddy who dual boxes and his rogue 4 or 5 levels below us was able to pop into qeusts and get all the traps on hard and elite. That is too easy on traps. I would love to see Turbine make DDO traps require a dedicated rogue, but they do not.
This is true only on Epics. Something that new players may never be interested in. I played DDO for 18 months, and never once had any desire to step into Epics.
Multclasses rogues that have a brain will have no trouble getting any trap, sans the one in GH, in the game until Epics.
OP - take what everyone is saying about the ease of soloing with a huge grain of salt. Although I'm sure it is much easier to solo than it used to be, you will find that it is still much more challenging than other games you've played and it is a game that works much better in teams.
I was pleasantly surprised when I went from Apprentice to full 5 star Elite in under 2 months. I was pleasantly surprised again when I went from Elite to just barely Hardcore in 2 weeks. Apprentice, here I come!
Well here we go.
Just hopped on and checked my own rogue and am asking about a bit.
A rogue specced the way you are saying would only have ~24 base disable device skill. Buffed they'd have ~35. So I actually highballed my estimate of a rogue specced according to you and how often they'd fail traps.
If we are to beleive what you say and spec in that way, we'd be failing most traps about two thirds to three quarters of the time. In otherwords, you'd be lucky if you actually succeeded.
In other words, even if you aren't a mechanic you have to be putting points into the skill, because gear and buffs alone will not be enough to compensate. You'll be capable of getting away with it sometimes on normal, but come hard you will see a shard decline in any success you used to have, any lvl 20 raid and any attempt at doing elite quests you will fail.
I would have to ask your friend what his stats and spec is. What's his character name, I should be able to look him up on MYDDO.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Until you figure out how to build a toon. Basically max dps + high HP with a cleric hireling is going to be very easy to "solo". Make a monk and you can solo with ease without a hireling.
Still, you're right. Its going to be more challening than games like WoW, EQ2 and Rift. I guess that is why I enjoyed it so much.
Back when GH first came out I was in the process of making a Clogue(Cleric Rogue for those who might not know what that meant) and that trap was the only one in the game I could not get. Now making that multiclass split is much easier then it was back then. Much more gear and much easier to aquire.
Outside of EPIC content you can make a rogue that gets all traps and still does DPS. Between skill points, gear and buffs there is no problems, except the GH trap.
A couple of enhancement points(which you need to spend anyway to get what you want) will cover you just fine. List all the buffs you use. Include +5 tools and gear and anything else the average player can get.
24 base
Minimum +3 from int
Minimum +15 from item
Rogue skill boost +5
Improved Disable Device IV +4
Greater Heroism +4
+5 tools
That's minimum buff of 60. I may even be missing a few buffs, or items, since I haven't played in awhile. Why did you think buffed is only ~35?
Oh wow, I didn't even think of guild ship buffs which boost this even more.
I actually don't use buffs. Hate making characters that are reliant on temporary things, the presence of other characters, and clickies.
More or less all I use is the normal stuff, the tools and a disable device item. I went to the extreme though as I made a utility rogue, so I'm specifically specced to eliminate the chance of failure, as I see the chance of failure as a pretty bad thing.
And fine, you might be ok with making a rogue that buffs to ~45 to give them a 50% chance on hard VoN or what have you, but failure half the time is, well, failure half the time.
In CoF normal the DCs range from 38 lowest to 74 highest. Only three of the traps in there will a person with those kinda skills be able to disable without a higher chance of failure than success. On normal. On a level 12 quest.
And the skill I mentioned for a level 20 under your spec suggestion is barely enough to cover only a few of the traps.
On normal. A level 20 would fail most of the traps in a lvl 12 quest, on normal.
And you crank it up to hard or elite, there I say good luck.
EDIT: Goleorn I was going by Roku's spec, not a proper spec.
Meaning at best they'd be getting +21 from their random spills in enhancements and their items. If you really wanna nitpick and add +4 for GH then they'd hit +25 and be at 49. That's make my estimate shift to include at best half of that lvl 12 quest I just listed.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
+5 tools are a +7 to the skill though.
EDIT: Also if you played the pirate themed event they had a few months ago you also have access to some great rogue gear that makes trapsmithing a bunt. I built a ton of gear during the event for a rogue multiclass i plan to reincarnate into one day(yes i dislike reincarnate and think it is a waste of money but I still plan a few). That gear alone makes up for any enhancement i might not take.
So you avoid all the easy to get buffs that make up for feats? Well then no wonder your math works out to a level 20 rogue failing a trap on a level 12 quest normal. you have intentionally built a gimp rogue and then try to use it to debate me? Thanks for playing.
Without breaking down the feats you need for DPS and traps I am pretty sure you can even use one or two for traps and still get high DPS. A well built rogue can and does get great DPS and traps. A poorly built one can do either or neither of those.
Not to mention the fact is you can also afford enhancement points with ZERO loss of DPS. So again as i said you can do both with a rogue, unlike most other characters that have a hard time due to such extreme needs for full use the rogue due to so many skills and skill points can do both at high levels.
For some reason I was thinking it was that way. Like I said its been about 4 months, since I'ved signed in.
Forgive me if I forget a few details.
Yes, I did play the pirate theme, but not much, and that was about when I stopped playing.
I think I made the +5 natural armor bonus helm. Not sure, though.
All this talk is making me want to sign back up.