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General: SOE Admits Data Stolen by Hackers

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  • CeridithCeridith Member UncommonPosts: 2,980

    Originally posted by Malickie

    Originally posted by Kenze



    no one is denying that.

    Every company that through neglegence or error should be held responsibile for the integrity of their information gathering and storage. Every company including SOE.

    Who's denying that? Still if a hacker has the skill, it's always going to be a game of catch-up for any type of security.

    Yes, however, the question is whether or not Sony put in a reasonable enough amount of effort to secure their system. Considering they admitted that much of their SOE data was stored on 'an outdatted 2007 database', it gives the impression that they in fact did not put in sufficient effort to keeping their customer information safe by storing it in system that was up to date.

  • saxifrsaxifr Member UncommonPosts: 381

    Originally posted by Locklain

    Originally posted by GreenKnight7

    The more days this goes on, the more SOE will be hemorraging money. After their recent cuts, they REALLY can't afford this right now. Before you SOE haters out there laugh at their misfortune, remember that the families of their employees depend on this income. Hate SOE, it's both fun & therapeutic but let's hope this gets resolved soon.

    Those that bash these companies don't care about the fallout.  All they care about is that they are "right" no matter who has to suffer the consequences.

    Poor SOE. Maybe we should all give them additional credit card numbers and personal information in a show of solidarity!

    RELAX!@!! BREATHE!!!

  • dirtyd77dirtyd77 Member UncommonPosts: 383

    I know this is bad and never a good thing for a company or consumer to deal with. 

    Here is my question to everyone who wants Sony to burn for this. 

    Do you or have you ever shopped at any of the following companies?

    Because if you have and they have any information on you, all of the same info was stolen that basiclly got stolen from Sony. Oh and this happened last month in April 2011.  Some huge names there. I am sure all of us have shopped with some of these companies at least once or twice..

    My point is Sony is not alone.......... you can crucify them ( and rightfully so ) but they are not the only ones out there letting our information get in the hands of  hacker/crackers (whatever you want to call them)  Just remember that.

     

    Just Google Epsilon breach if you are not aware of this.......  

     

    1-800-FLOWERS

    AbeBooks

    Air Miles (Canada)

    Ameriprise Financial

    Ann Taylor credit card (provided by WFNNB)

    Barclay's Bank of Delaware (this breach affects customers of several private-label Visa credit cards, including BJ's and L.L. Bean)

    Beachbody

    Bebe Stores

    Best Buy

    Benefit Cosmetics

    Brookstone

    Capital One

    Chase

    Citigroup

    City Market

    College Board

    Crucial

    Dell

    Dillons

    Disney Destinations

    Eddie Bauer

    Eileen Fisher

    Ethan Allen

    Eurosport (Soccer.com)

    Food 4 Less

    Fred Meyer

    Fry's Electronics

    Hilton Honors program

    Home Depot Credit Card (issued by Citibank)

    Home Shopping Network

    J. Crew credit card (provided by WFNNB)

    JPMorgan Chase

    Kroger

    Marks and Spencer

    Marriott

    McKinsey Quarterly

    MoneyGram

    New York & Co.

    QFC

    Ralph's

    Red Roof Inns

    Ritz-Carlton

    Robert Half International

    Scottrade

    Smith Brands

    Target

    Tastefully Simple

    TD Ameritrade

    The Limited credit card (provided by WFNNB)

    TIAA-CREF

    TiVo

    US Bank

    Verizon

    Walgreen's

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by JeroKane

    Originally posted by Malickie


    Originally posted by Kenze



    no one is denying that.

    Every company that through neglegence or error should be held responsibile for the integrity of their information gathering and storage. Every company including SOE.

    Who's denying that? Still if a hacker has the skill, it's always going to be a game of catch-up for any type of security.

    Yet if Sony and SOE had encrypted ALL our Personal information and took better care of their network and infrastructure, this would have had far less concequences and would have made them a less attractive target!

    The fact they were running on outdated sofware with known vulnaribilities and didn't find it necessary to properly encrypt Personal information of millions of users, made them an attractive and easy target for hackers!

    Yes the hackers are criminals and should be found and brought to justice for what they have done!

    But so does Sony and SOE need to be brought to justice and held responsible for their neglegence in the way they stored and treated all our Personal information!

    Not to defend SOE, as I've been burned by them many times, but you seem certain this is a case of negligence on their part. Where is the proof of that? Computer networks and the security that protects them are in no way fool proof. In a lot of cases it takes something like this to happen to even know such a hole existed. Not saying that is the situation here, but without proof either way making such accusations isn't in my nature.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • KenzeKenze Member UncommonPosts: 1,217

    Originally posted by dirtyd77

    I know this is bad and never a good thing for a company or consumer to deal with. 

    Here is my question to everyone who wants Sony to burn for this. 

    Do you or have you ever shopped at any of the following companies?

    Because if you have and they have any information on you, all of the same info was stolen that basiclly got stolen from Sony. Oh and this happened last month in April 2011.  Some huge names there. I am sure all of us have shopped with some of these companies at least once or twice..

     

     

    Just Google Epsilon breach if you are not aware of this.......  

     

    1-800-FLOWERS

    AbeBooks

    Air Miles (Canada)

    Ameriprise Financial

    Ann Taylor credit card (provided by WFNNB)

    Barclay's Bank of Delaware (this breach affects customers of several private-label Visa credit cards, including BJ's and L.L. Bean)

    Beachbody

    Bebe Stores

    Best Buy

    Benefit Cosmetics

    Brookstone

    Capital One

    Chase

    Citigroup

    City Market

    College Board

    Crucial

    Dell

    Dillons

    Disney Destinations

    Eddie Bauer

    Eileen Fisher

    Ethan Allen

    Eurosport (Soccer.com)

    Food 4 Less

    Fred Meyer

    Fry's Electronics

    Hilton Honors program

    Home Depot Credit Card (issued by Citibank)

    Home Shopping Network

    J. Crew credit card (provided by WFNNB)

    JPMorgan Chase

    Kroger

    Marks and Spencer

    Marriott

    McKinsey Quarterly

    MoneyGram

    New York & Co.

    QFC

    Ralph's

    Red Roof Inns

    Ritz-Carlton

    Robert Half International

    Scottrade

    Smith Brands

    Target

    Tastefully Simple

    TD Ameritrade

    The Limited credit card (provided by WFNNB)

    TIAA-CREF

    TiVo

    US Bank

    Verizon

    Walgreen's

    so , again youre saying if its alright for these other guys its ok for SOE?  why try so hard to obscure and lessen the fault of SOE?  you simply can not justify their security lapse by showing instances of OTher companies lapses.

    Watch your thoughts; they become words.
    Watch your words; they become actions.
    Watch your actions; they become habits.
    Watch your habits; they become character.
    Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
    —Lao-Tze

  • saxifrsaxifr Member UncommonPosts: 381

    Originally posted by Malickie

     

    Not to defend SOE, as I've been burned by them many times, but you seem certain this is a case of negligence on their part. Where is the proof of that? Computer networks and the security that protects them are in no way fool proof. In a lot of cases it takes something like this to happen to even know such a hole existed. Not saying that is the situation here, but without proof either way making such accusations isn't in my nature.

    There's that whole "out of date since 2007 database" thing...

    RELAX!@!! BREATHE!!!

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by saxifr

    Originally posted by Malickie


     

    Not to defend SOE, as I've been burned by them many times, but you seem certain this is a case of negligence on their part. Where is the proof of that? Computer networks and the security that protects them are in no way fool proof. In a lot of cases it takes something like this to happen to even know such a hole existed. Not saying that is the situation here, but without proof either way making such accusations isn't in my nature.

    There's that whole "out of date since 2007 database" thing...

    Yep and I'm sure many other companies use databases that are out of date. That still brings the question, did they know this particular hole existed?

    Maybe it's time all companies who store CC info and the like, security as well as databases were looked into, to see who's safe and who is not.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • TUX426TUX426 Member Posts: 1,907

    Originally posted by dirtyd77;I

    know this is bad and never a good thing for a company or consumer to deal with. 

    Here is my question to everyone who wants Sony to burn for this. 

    Do you or have you ever shopped at any of the following companies?

    Unlike them...this one is MONUMENTAL! HISTORIC!

    LARGEST LOSS OF PERSONAL DATA EVER!

    This one IS worse.

    The FBI has SOE shut down right now. This is out of their hands at this point.

  • dirtyd77dirtyd77 Member UncommonPosts: 383

    I put full responsibility on Sony & SOE for their breach that happened. 

    My point is any company / alot of companies have this happen to them. 

    Alot of people are going overboard b/c it is thier opening to get back at a company they hold a grudge against. ( Just my point of view there, nothing more ) 

    I hope all of these people that are pouring the gasoline on the fire did/ are doing the same to any company on that list that they have done business with.  The breaches happened just a couple weeks apart.

    Probablly not the case though b/c most do not hold the hatred they do for Sony/SOE .......... Gamers are passionate, vengful people  :)

  • AmanaAmana Moderator UncommonPosts: 3,912

    Hey guys - If you receive any emails from something that looks like SOE, please inspect them carefully. I just edited one out of this thread that was a phishing email. There was a link to what looked like the credit report site SOE put in their release, but it led somewhere else if you moused over it to check. 

    So be careful what you click and what you post here as well.

    To give feedback on moderation, contact mikeb@mmorpg.com

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    Originally posted by Malickie

    Not to defend SOE, as I've been burned by them many times, but you seem certain this is a case of negligence on their part. Where is the proof of that? Computer networks and the security that protects them are in no way fool proof. In a lot of cases it takes something like this to happen to even know such a hole existed. Not saying that is the situation here, but without proof either way making such accusations isn't in my nature.

    Well SOE did take their service down when the PSN went down to conduct a security audit and determined they had not been hacked and were safe to go back online. 

    It seems pretty clear they were not and obviously missed a ton of vital information sitting out in the clear open.  Much of which should not even have been there like the outdated credit and banking information. 

    They also left their facebook game servers online this whole time.  Perhaps they wanted to go for the trifecta of security failures so that no one could ever take the title away from them?

     

    There is a ton of failure on the part of SOE in this.  It isn't like they didn't have enough warning that this could happen in the last few days.  They gambled and lost. 

  • saxifrsaxifr Member UncommonPosts: 381

    Originally posted by Malickie

    Originally posted by saxifr


    Originally posted by Malickie


     

    Not to defend SOE, as I've been burned by them many times, but you seem certain this is a case of negligence on their part. Where is the proof of that? Computer networks and the security that protects them are in no way fool proof. In a lot of cases it takes something like this to happen to even know such a hole existed. Not saying that is the situation here, but without proof either way making such accusations isn't in my nature.

    There's that whole "out of date since 2007 database" thing...

    Yep and I'm sure many other companies use databases that are out of date. That still brings the question, did they know this particular hole existed?

    Maybe it's time all companies who store CC info and the like, security as well as databases were looked into, to see who's safe and who is not.

    Let me put it to you this way - if you get in a car and drive without knowing that your insurance and drivers' license have both expired, does that absolve you of any liability or responsibility?

    RELAX!@!! BREATHE!!!

  • TUX426TUX426 Member Posts: 1,907

    Originally posted by Amana

    Hey guys - If you receive any emails from something that looks like SOE, please inspect them carefully. I just edited one out of this thread that was a phishing email. There was a link to what looked like the credit report site SOE put in their release, but it led somewhere else if you moused over it to check. 

    So be careful what you click and what you post here as well.

    Whoa. Thanks.

    And after checking mine, you were correct!

    So...has anyone gotten word from SOE on this?

  • KenzeKenze Member UncommonPosts: 1,217

    Originally posted by Malickie

    Originally posted by saxifr


    Originally posted by Malickie


     

    Not to defend SOE, as I've been burned by them many times, but you seem certain this is a case of negligence on their part. Where is the proof of that? Computer networks and the security that protects them are in no way fool proof. In a lot of cases it takes something like this to happen to even know such a hole existed. Not saying that is the situation here, but without proof either way making such accusations isn't in my nature.

    There's that whole "out of date since 2007 database" thing...

    Yep and I'm sure many other companies use databases that are out of date. That still brings the question, did they know this hole existed?

    if they didnt know then thats neglegence. its was their responsibility to look for holes and plug them. Not to mention the CC laws against keeping unused info stored after 180days or something... on an outdated database.. not just cc numbers but BANK account numbers which very rarely change

    Watch your thoughts; they become words.
    Watch your words; they become actions.
    Watch your actions; they become habits.
    Watch your habits; they become character.
    Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
    —Lao-Tze

  • finnmacool1finnmacool1 Member Posts: 453

    Looks like the $oe apologists are out in force now...

  • ReizlaReizla Member RarePosts: 4,092

    Originally posted by JeroKane

    Yet if Sony and SOE had encrypted ALL our Personal information and took better care of their network and infrastructure, this would have had far less concequences and would have made them a less attractive target!

    The fact they were running on outdated sofware with known vulnaribilities and didn't find it necessary to properly encrypt Personal information of millions of users, made them an attractive and easy target for hackers!

    Yes the hackers are criminals and should be found and brought to justice for what they have done!

    But so does Sony and SOE need to be brought to justice and held responsible for their neglegence in the way they stored and treated all our Personal information!

    Well spoken! Both SOE/SONY/PSN and the hackers should be brought to justice.

    The hackers because they breached security and tresspassed digitally and (most likely) stole the database.

    SOE/SONY/PSN for their lack of encryption of the data and the obvious flaw in their security. But foremost for not having our data encrypted - I think the lack of encryption is more severe than having others digitally tresspassing. It's like having $1.000.000 in your house 24/7 and the whole neighbourhood knows it. You can store the money under your matress or in an old (and very big) shoebox, but you could also drop it in a save. Wonder which option would be more secure... ;-)

  • sgtalonsgtalon Member UncommonPosts: 129

    Simple facts peeps. Hackers can get into any computer at any time. Even the dorks on Macs. Anyone that thinks their data is safe is on crack.

    THE PENTAGON WAS HACKED!!!

    You think that the Pentagon has relaxed security? SImple facts, your data is at risk all the time. It is NOT the fault of the company that gets hacked. It is the fault of the hackers. The only thing that the company can do is everything it knows how to do. I find it amazing that everyone is crucifying Sony when the next time something comes up they are going to complain about how much money it costs. How much do you think security costs?

    What it all boils down to is that you need to be aware of what is going on with your financials. There are dozens of companies out there that offer fraud protection for less than we are paying for our monthly subscription fees. Every Credit Card company has fraud protection. IF you find a bad transaction you can get it removed easily.

    It is all part of living in the electronic world. Get over it!!

    What i am ticked about is there is no estimate on when the servers are going to be back up!!! I need my MMO fix dammit!

  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 7,098

    Originally posted by Malickie

    Originally posted by JeroKane


    Originally posted by Malickie


    Originally posted by Kenze



    no one is denying that.

    Every company that through neglegence or error should be held responsibile for the integrity of their information gathering and storage. Every company including SOE.

    Who's denying that? Still if a hacker has the skill, it's always going to be a game of catch-up for any type of security.

    Yet if Sony and SOE had encrypted ALL our Personal information and took better care of their network and infrastructure, this would have had far less concequences and would have made them a less attractive target!

    The fact they were running on outdated sofware with known vulnaribilities and didn't find it necessary to properly encrypt Personal information of millions of users, made them an attractive and easy target for hackers!

    Yes the hackers are criminals and should be found and brought to justice for what they have done!

    But so does Sony and SOE need to be brought to justice and held responsible for their neglegence in the way they stored and treated all our Personal information!

    Not to defend SOE, as I've been burned by them many times, but you seem certain this is a case of negligence on their part. Where is the proof of that? Computer networks and the security that protects them are in no way fool proof. In a lot of cases it takes something like this to happen to even know such a hole existed. Not saying that is the situation here, but without proof either way making such accusations isn't in my nature.

    Why you think they file a Class Action Lawsuit? What you think is in that Class Action Lawsuit?

    People already found out that they were running their online services on an old version of Apache with known vulnaribilties and never bothered to upgrade and update it.

    It has been mentioned everywhere already that Sony nor SOE bothered to encrypt our Personal Information, except for the credit card table (most probably due to the simple fact they are legaly forced to do so).

    Our names, adresses, birthdates, email adresses, phone numbers, gender, login / account names were stored in PLAIN TEXT in their databases!!

    That alone is already a crime on itself. As that information alone about a person is enough commit identity theft when it ends up in the wrong hands. Which it now has!

    To make matters even worse, SOE was also running an old database from 2007 on their Live Network with unencrypted personal information, including credit / debit card information and bank account information from European customers that has also been stolen!!  Downright criminal and I am now victim of that too, as I have an SOE account dating all the way back to pre-NGE SWG! So my information was stored in that database!!

    Why did they still had such an old database with sensitive information running within their live environment?? Begs the question!

  • angerbeaverangerbeaver Member UncommonPosts: 1,273

    Hackers does not always mean illegal activity. A lot of companies hire people that hack as a profession to test their site etc etc. Seems like a movie type deal but it really does happen irl

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by finnmacool1

    Looks like the $oe apologists are out in force now...

    I sincerely hope you're not calling me a SOE apoligist. As a pre-cu SWG player I find that quite insulting.  What I'm saying has nothing to do with SOE. I'm talking about hacking, security software and databases that are usually widely used. All I said was without 100% proof of negligence I have a hard time throwing around such accusations. For all I know this may have not  been a known issue with that particular database. If there was such a known issue, by all means claim negligence.

    The only thing I'm saying is hackers hack, that's what they do. In a lot of cases a hack is the only way to find the leak, then it's plugged. That's how net security works most of the time, just as with Virus software. You can talk about SOE as you please, I just said how I feel about it.

    The pentagon was hacked by a teenager, multiple banks have been hacked and account info stolen. It's not as if SOE was the first company to have this happen.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • TUX426TUX426 Member Posts: 1,907

    Originally posted by angerbeaver

    Hackers does not always mean illegal activity. A lot of companies hire people that hack as a profession to test their site etc etc. Seems like a movie type deal but it really does happen irl

    The FBI has a forensics team there and they've shut down ALL of SOE/SCE. This wasn't a "test".

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by JeroKane

    Why you think they file a Class Action Lawsuit? What you think is in that Class Action Lawsuit?

    People already found out that they were running their online services on an old version of Apache with known vulnaribilties and never bothered to upgrade and update it.

    It has been mentioned everywhere already that Sony nor SOE bothered to encrypt our Personal Information, except for the credit card table (most probably due to the simple fact they are legaly forced to do so).

    Our names, adresses, birthdates, email adresses, phone numbers, gender, login / account names were stored in PLAIN TEXT in their databases!!

    That alone is already a crime on itself. As that information alone about a person is enough commit identity theft when it ends up in the wrong hands. Which it now has!

    To make matters even worse, SOE was also running an old database from 2007 on their Live Network with unencrypted personal information, including credit / debit card information and bank account information from European customers that has also been stolen!!  Downright criminal and I am now victim of that too, as I have an SOE account dating all the way back to pre-NGE SWG! So my information was stored in that database!!

    Why did they still had such an old database with sensitive information running within their live environment?? Begs the question!

    Well before you can claim their guilty of what's in that class action lawsuit they must be found guilty of it.

    I too have a SWG account dating back to 2003 when SWg launched. Then again this is why I use pre-paid cards and game-time cards online. I don't use CC's or bank cards on the net. Which is why I'm not exactly pissed off, I'm of an opinion you're asking for trouble when you use such things online.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • TardcoreTardcore Member Posts: 2,325

    Originally posted by warmaster670

    Originally posted by Kenze

    law suit or not this can not be good for SoE's already tarnished reputation with it past and present customers. thats gonna hurt them the most.

    Isnt it funny though how many SOE defenders have shown up since the news of the breach. weve had years and years of scandales, lies, and underhandedness and yet the SOE defenders choose now to speak out. makes you wonder.

    thats because *there* they're not stupid and recognize that this sort of thing is a threat to any company.

    While I agree that this kind of security breach could potentially happen to any gaming company with a large subscriber base, it didn't, it happened to SOE. So now this security breach needs to be investigated by regulatory and legal minds to see if indeed there was nothing that SOE could have done to prevent this debacle. Or worse, to see if they are criminally negligent by participating in behavior that helped lead to this debacle.

     

    So while this news topic might be the perfect fodder for pro and anti SOE folks to duke it out, those grudges aren't the issue here, so could both camps please put up their knives and try to discuss this topic rationally.

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • TardcoreTardcore Member Posts: 2,325

    Originally posted by Amana

    Hey guys - If you receive any emails from something that looks like SOE, please inspect them carefully. I just edited one out of this thread that was a phishing email. There was a link to what looked like the credit report site SOE put in their release, but it led somewhere else if you moused over it to check. 

    So be careful what you click and what you post here as well.

    Yikes!

    Thanks for watching out for us, Amana.

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 7,098

    Originally posted by Malickie

    Originally posted by finnmacool1

    Looks like the $oe apologists are out in force now...

    I sincerely hope you're not calling me a SOE apoligist. As a pre-cu SWG player I find that quite insulting.  What I'm saying has nothing to do with SOE. I'm talking about hacking, security software and databases that are usually widely used. All I said was without 100% proof of negligence I have a hard time throwing around such accusations. For all I know this may have not  been a known issue with that particular database. If there was such a known issue, by all means claim negligence.

    The only thing I'm saying is hackers hack, that's what they do. In a lot of cases a hack is the only way to find the leak, then it's plugged. That's how net security works most of the time, just as with Virus software. You can talk about SOE as you please, I just said how I feel about it.

    The pentagon was hacked by a teenager, multiple banks have been hacked and account info stolen. It's not as if SOE was the first company to have this happen.

    [Mod Edit]

    Companies get hacked all the time. Sure. Even the government and banks!

    The point is if the data was strongly encrypted or not! Which would make the stolen data practically useless for the hackers.

    Unless ofcourse it was in inside job and hackers got hold of the encryption keys. Which would even be a more severe criminal offense for both hackers and the insider helping them.

     

    With Sony and SOE, they made it the hackers just easy by N O T  E N C R Y P T I N G our personal information and store it in P L A I N  T E X T in their databases!

    Also both Sony and SOE knew about security holes in their network and failed to adress them in time before the "big" attack 2 weeks ago!  As the PSN network was already breached earlier this year by a young teenager!!

     

    So YES!  For such a large multi billion dollar company like Sony, it's total neglegence on their part in how they treated and handled our Personal Information !

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