It even scales, with higher level wormholes requiring successively bigger, more powerful ships (level 6's are typically run with Carriers) and of course, require more and more of them.
So all that's left is the scripted PVE encounters the OP spoke about, with end game gear as the final reward.
Thanks, but no thanks, I hope EVE never gets this, regardless how niche it keeps its market.
(and there are many more reasons for EVE being niche game, I doubt adding scripted PVE would significantly increase its player base, but just my opinion)
Remember, the actual "purpose" in EVE is not to play a game, its to create a life for your avatar in the EVE universe. You determine what sort of life that will be and what activities you will pursue to achieve "success", however you so define it.
Which probably is the biggest factor in EVE being a nichce game, most folks want the developers to set the succcess parameters for them.
No, the biggest factor of EVE being a niche game is that the starting 12months+ is attrociously bad for your average 'MMO player' who has no idea what the heck is going on.
There are learning curves and then there are EVE 'this is not a curve but a cliff' learning curves. :P
I just got lost in the tutorial section twice! >_<!
The meta-game is very facinating though and heck I even voted in the last CSM election! O_O
Yes, they let me resurrect my old EVE account for free for 14 days and vote.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
You misunderstood. You don't need that many locations, you just need all those servers to be in one universe. The only limit is overloading, but if, say, there are 1000 players in one small location (which overpopulates it), you instance that location into 2, 3, 10 on different servers, but all those instances are still in the same world, so people can connect, trade, etc with each other, and if players group or otherwise unite they all end up in one instance with each other, etc.
Lotro does that, as far as I remember. But trade instruments kind of suck big times in Lotro, which is a big no-no.
I think that is just an awful and pointless idea. It's MMO, i want to know people i'm playing with (or against) and what to expect from them. In vanilla WoW (before that cross realm BGs nonsense) i knew most people in BGs, most players from top guilds, knew what they will probably do and that was great. So basically server is your neighbourhood. You know it well and happy about it. Do you give a f*ck about some Zimbabwe (other server)? No! So with EVE. You care about your neighbourhood and don't give a f*ck about what's going on on another side of universe. So i say it's one world without instanced locations like EVE or serves without same instanced locations. So with all that cross realms things. Before it you have to knew about guys on your server. Keep track of good tanks, healers and dpsers. Help em when they ask so they will help you after. That's how thing works. That's how it should be. It's a social aspect of MMOs and i love it. And now with all that cross realm thing it's more like some weird single player with bots. Annoying selfish bots.
And with that instanced locations it will be the same shit (actually it was in Aion). Beacause every single time you log in you will see only unknown guys around you. I don't like it and don't want it.
You misunderstood. You don't need that many locations, you just need all those servers to be in one universe. The only limit is overloading, but if, say, there are 1000 players in one small location (which overpopulates it), you instance that location into 2, 3, 10 on different servers, but all those instances are still in the same world, so people can connect, trade, etc with each other, and if players group or otherwise unite they all end up in one instance with each other, etc.
Lotro does that, as far as I remember. But trade instruments kind of suck big times in Lotro, which is a big no-no.
I think that is just an awful and pointless idea. It's MMO, i want to know people i'm playing with (or against) and what to expect from them. In vanilla WoW (before that cross realm BGs nonsense) i knew most people in BGs, most players from top guilds, knew what they will probably do and that was great. So basically server is your neighbourhood. You know it well and happy about it. Do you give a f*ck about some Zimbabwe (other server)? No! So with EVE. You care about your neighbourhood and don't give a f*ck about what's going on on another side of universe. So i say it's one world without instanced locations like EVE or serves without same instanced locations. So with all that cross realms things. Before it you have to knew about guys on your server. Keep track of good tanks, healers and dpsers. Help em when they ask so they will help you after. That's how thing works. That's how it should be. It's a social aspect of MMOs and i love it. And now with all that cross realm thing it's more like some weird single player with bots. Annoying selfish bots.
And with that instanced locations it will be the same shit (actually it was in Aion). Beacause every single time you log in you will see only unknown guys around you. I don't like it and don't want it.
While the theory of 'no instances' or 'single shard' is better, there's a reason why many MMOs go down the 'shard' route.
The technology we have just can't support the number of people playing MMOs.
Even EVE can't sustain more than 3000 ships with 'lags/blackscreen/crash the node' happening.
The 'war on lag' by EVE is looking at slowing down the time so the battles actually happen except at 10% speed.
So if your gun normally takes 20seconds to fire, it'll take 200 seconds now.
We all want 'single shard/server' but I don't see it happening anytime soon.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I want to detail why I believe Sandbox concept doesnt hold up well in modern day MMORPG Community.
I believe its due to the Dull PvE elements.
Lets be real here.
PvE in most Sandbox MMORPG consist mainly of Crafting(Collecting and Crafting)
Usually the NPC lack any form of major scripting, due to the the fact that most Sandbox MMORPGs dont have Class System, which means they also dont have any form of Trinity. This means, PvE combat becomes nothing more than a DPS Zergfest of out-numbers.
The lack of classes has little or no bearing on the complexity of the NPCs. If anything the functionality of NPCs in most of the sandbox MMOs is far more elaborate. I'd compare the complexity of a UO NPC to a WOW NPC anyway. When it comes to combat, EVE's sleepers would wipe any trinity group becuase they aren't stupid enough to keep whacking at the only guy in the group that is of zero thread to them.
But that is almost immaterial as thetitle issue that you present is that the lack of serious epic PvE is a 'problem of sandbox design.' PvE is a component of themepark design and has little to do with the sandbox components of your game. It seems like what you are trying to say (despite the very flawed argument supporting it) is that games focusing on sandbox gameplay have less elaborate PvE, so they don't attract as many people as a game that focus on themepark content. That's a given, MMOE.
Burger King Whoppers are very popular, but the fact that sushi bars don't sell them isn't a problem for the sushi bar.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
It all depends on the MMO you play and what you think is a sandbox...
Personally, I think Lineage II is a semi-sandbox since after level 40 there's little to no actual question. Most quests you pick up are 'repeatebles' that allow you to collect items (from ribs up to special coins and anything in between) from monsters and exchange for other stuff .
The sandbox part in Lineage II is the server politics, where the PvP is focussed on territory control, fortress & castle sieges and the alike. Though, if you don't want to PvP (or not that much), you can always join a more PvE oriented clan and enjoy the greatness of the PvE content, including raising your own pets, raidbosses and awesome (non-instanced!) dungeons.
On the other hand, if your definition of a sandbox is a MMO where you can make anything from your character (classless system for instance), then you're indeed back to games like DarkFall, Mortal online, EVE and the alike, and those are indeed mainly focussed on PvP with little to no PvE content
Can people please stop calling eve online a niche game..
360,000 subs,
1,400,000 copies of the game sold,
64,000 players on the server at a time (current record)
I might be mistaken as I cannot find any recent charts for 2011, but Eve Online sits way above a vast amount of other MMOs, its not niche at all, its one of the biggest MMOs out there. Stop gauging subscription base on WoW, its a freak of the genre.
If all sandboxes where made with the same quality that Eve Online is made with, we wouldn't have people calling them niche anymore.
Also to those who claim there is no pve, or poor pve in Eve Online...
Missions (1-5, varying difficulty and skill requirement)
Sleepers (Significantly more difficult AI than missions inside wormhole space, beyond C3 you need a group, and it goes upto C6, if you want a PVE challenge way beyond any other PVE challenge here it is.)
The recently added incursions. Loads of people can join one in progress and help remove it, rewards and loot abound.
Popping rats in asteroid belts in all different secs (hi, low, null)
Can people please stop calling eve online a niche game..
360,000 subs,
1,400,000 copies of the game sold,
64,000 players on the server at a time (current record)
Sadly there is no info on current subs in mmogs since mmogchart.com stopped updating in 2008. And by that time EVE had just 1,5% (240k) of all MMOG subs. While, for example, Dofus (french game probably not so much people know about) had 450k subs and that is 2,8%. So ok, EVE now have 360k subs and that is probably be the same 1,5% because WoW got another 2 millions subs by 2010, plus other new games and etc. And that is just about p2p games, since no one knows what's going up in f2p market.
And don't forget about two things:
1) a lot of people in EVE have more than one account
2) no data on asian market at all
So you going to tell us that game played by 1% of all p2p mmo gamers isn't a niche game?
Can people please stop calling eve online a niche game..
360,000 subs,
1,400,000 copies of the game sold,
64,000 players on the server at a time (current record)
Sadly there is no info on current subs in mmogs since mmogchart.com stopped updating in 2008. And by that time EVE had just 1,5% (240k) of all MMOG subs. While, for example, Dofus (french game probably not so much people know about) had 450k subs and that is 2,8%. So ok, EVE now have 360k subs and that is probably be the same 1,5% because WoW got another 2 millions subs by 2010, plus other new games and etc. And that is just about p2p games, since no one knows what's going up in f2p market.
And don't forget about two things:
1) a lot of people in EVE have more than one account
2) no data on asian market at all
So you going to tell us that game played by 1% of all p2p mmo gamers isn't a niche game?
So the way your factor it, city of heroes is niche?
Lord of the rings is niche?
Warhammer is niche?
Like someone said, Eve currently has one of the largest shares of the P2P market in the west, I believe rift and WoW are above it, and Rift seems to be losing members fast.
So the way your factor it, city of heroes is niche?
Lord of the rings is niche?
Warhammer is niche?
Like someone said, Eve currently has one of the largest shares of the P2P market in the west, I believe rift and WoW are above it, and Rift seems to be losing members fast.
Mate, you were the one who started talking about numbers, not i. And now you are talking about what? Gameplay? Target audience? Or something else?
You forgot about Dooooofus That is a problem of western game developers that they do WoW clones that no one going to play. So people play Aion, Lineage 2 and other asian games. But most of em are f2p, so you'll never know. If we are talking about numbers again there are about 22 millions western p2p mmo gamers now acording to this chart, so as i said before it's exactly the same 1,5% for EVE. That is what your "largest share" actually is.
P.S. All that i'm trying to say that right now WoW has that huge number of subs because all mainstream subs are actually WoW subs (+Rift atm). So anything else is a niche game of some kind. And there is nothing bad about it actually. Just saying that if you copy EVE you don't get some share of WoW subs, because they don't care about EVE itself. So you will mostly fight for EVE subs and that will not do any good for both of this games. It's not safe for em to lose 100k or 200k subs like it is for WoW.
The problem with your argument though is coming back to numbers without relation to the game data. Its the example of "its niche because only 1% of all gamers player it" despite the fact you can't actually statistically say that because you can't also be sure how many players actually crossover and play other game titles as well.
To the OP and the problem of that argument: even in games where there is no PvP you STILL HAVE THE ELEMENT OF EMPHASIZING DPS. In that respect most posters seem to jump on EvE and also assume that DPS SOLELY MATTERS WHEN IT REALITY IT ALSO ISN'T THE SOLE EMPHASIS. To illstrate this problem one of my favorite non~PvP titles is FF11. Melee classes emphasize DPS more than anything; not defensive capability or what not but DPS. Your DRK, RNG, MNK are built to deal damage and your tanks are built to hold hate and your healers to cure people.
In contrast to EvE you get more complex gameplay with not everyone there just loading the biggest guns and what not; you get support ships, logistic ships, assault, etc. I would also say that saying "oh there is no nearby npc's to kill" also fail to take into account the actual games elements in some cases: why would an NPC pirate be found so close to a heavily secured zone? As I would jest, its like the fesh prince of bel-air, you're saying no one would notice the black man in bel-air as much as no policing npc force would realistically not notice npc pirates going through a gate with a dozen or so of their ships in their most heavily policed areas and that would apply to the nations npc's as well? Hell its the same situation like in Die Hard where Bruce Willis had to wear the sign in Harlem about black people: we can assume some things are noticeable and would make the player say "well that's dumb".
The other part of it is saying sandbox design and PvP is a nich and lack epic PvE is peculiar due to EvE as they technically have boasted PvE numbers in the thousands. I think the problem of your point is that whereby in Aion its the directive of the game (one side against another) in EvE it isn't; your open to participate in various activities against other corporations, nations and pirates. In that respect its possible to also argue that it isn't so one-dimensional as Aion where its one side versus another or WoW where the sides are clearly defined. Unlike EvE you can't be sure if those your playing with are in fact either traitors or legitimate allies let alone you have enemies at varying scales from the enemoies of your nation, faction, corporation and alliance which also result in often times over-arching enemies and allies.
Obviously because this is such a niche game, so few people pay attention to it and no one ever thinks about EvE. I meam this sh*t is actually in fact niche because its so easy that anyone can do it and it would've been easier to make it like Aion where you say "its side A versus B" and then we'd all be happy right? I mean why make sh8t hard and complex and not feel like you can have a more player~community driven game? I mean who wants that stuff?
....then again I expect flame upon flame so why bother arguing back. No one ever agrees with anything and always believe "omgz my ideas pawn all others".
Wow was advertised with PvP between the Factions in mind.
When Guild Wars came along, Blizzard added BG to the Game, adding true Endgame PvP format, especially back in Vanilla WoW when Old AV could run for days at a time. Many people would queue in a spend their day in AV PvPing rather than Raiding (which was PvE's Endgame back then)
As of today. WoW has both PvE Endgame, and PvP Endgame.
PvE Only MMO doesnt hold up nowadays. PvP MMO doesnt hold up nowadays.
Remember LoTRO? it was a PvE MMO at one point. That was slowly changed over as well.
Warhammer was PvP focused MMO. It died do to a lack of contents early on. PvP alone just doesnt hold up anymore.
This is why Sandbox MMORPG need both formats of endgame. Not just PvP with Crafting on the side.
The only arguments I hear from this thread in defense of my OP, is Crafting, Crafting Crafting.
That there is the problem. In sandbox MMORPG, PvE only consist of Crafting things. But where is the PvE combat? There seems to be Little Endgame PvE Combat. Only PvE Crafting.
NPC are spaced out too thin, and dull fighting in group format.
Comments
No, the biggest factor of EVE being a niche game is that the starting 12months+ is attrociously bad for your average 'MMO player' who has no idea what the heck is going on.
There are learning curves and then there are EVE 'this is not a curve but a cliff' learning curves. :P
I just got lost in the tutorial section twice! >_<!
The meta-game is very facinating though and heck I even voted in the last CSM election! O_O
Yes, they let me resurrect my old EVE account for free for 14 days and vote.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I think that is just an awful and pointless idea. It's MMO, i want to know people i'm playing with (or against) and what to expect from them. In vanilla WoW (before that cross realm BGs nonsense) i knew most people in BGs, most players from top guilds, knew what they will probably do and that was great. So basically server is your neighbourhood. You know it well and happy about it. Do you give a f*ck about some Zimbabwe (other server)? No! So with EVE. You care about your neighbourhood and don't give a f*ck about what's going on on another side of universe. So i say it's one world without instanced locations like EVE or serves without same instanced locations. So with all that cross realms things. Before it you have to knew about guys on your server. Keep track of good tanks, healers and dpsers. Help em when they ask so they will help you after. That's how thing works. That's how it should be. It's a social aspect of MMOs and i love it. And now with all that cross realm thing it's more like some weird single player with bots. Annoying selfish bots.
And with that instanced locations it will be the same shit (actually it was in Aion). Beacause every single time you log in you will see only unknown guys around you. I don't like it and don't want it.
While the theory of 'no instances' or 'single shard' is better, there's a reason why many MMOs go down the 'shard' route.
The technology we have just can't support the number of people playing MMOs.
Even EVE can't sustain more than 3000 ships with 'lags/blackscreen/crash the node' happening.
The 'war on lag' by EVE is looking at slowing down the time so the battles actually happen except at 10% speed.
So if your gun normally takes 20seconds to fire, it'll take 200 seconds now.
We all want 'single shard/server' but I don't see it happening anytime soon.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
i wonder where you pulled that fact out of, i can guess tho
you call wow a niche group? ^^
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tQ1B3yQRhXY#t=36s
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
The lack of classes has little or no bearing on the complexity of the NPCs. If anything the functionality of NPCs in most of the sandbox MMOs is far more elaborate. I'd compare the complexity of a UO NPC to a WOW NPC anyway. When it comes to combat, EVE's sleepers would wipe any trinity group becuase they aren't stupid enough to keep whacking at the only guy in the group that is of zero thread to them.
But that is almost immaterial as thetitle issue that you present is that the lack of serious epic PvE is a 'problem of sandbox design.' PvE is a component of themepark design and has little to do with the sandbox components of your game. It seems like what you are trying to say (despite the very flawed argument supporting it) is that games focusing on sandbox gameplay have less elaborate PvE, so they don't attract as many people as a game that focus on themepark content. That's a given, MMOE.
Burger King Whoppers are very popular, but the fact that sushi bars don't sell them isn't a problem for the sushi bar.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
It all depends on the MMO you play and what you think is a sandbox...
Personally, I think Lineage II is a semi-sandbox since after level 40 there's little to no actual question. Most quests you pick up are 'repeatebles' that allow you to collect items (from ribs up to special coins and anything in between) from monsters and exchange for other stuff .
The sandbox part in Lineage II is the server politics, where the PvP is focussed on territory control, fortress & castle sieges and the alike. Though, if you don't want to PvP (or not that much), you can always join a more PvE oriented clan and enjoy the greatness of the PvE content, including raising your own pets, raidbosses and awesome (non-instanced!) dungeons.
On the other hand, if your definition of a sandbox is a MMO where you can make anything from your character (classless system for instance), then you're indeed back to games like DarkFall, Mortal online, EVE and the alike, and those are indeed mainly focussed on PvP with little to no PvE content
Can people please stop calling eve online a niche game..
360,000 subs,
1,400,000 copies of the game sold,
64,000 players on the server at a time (current record)
I might be mistaken as I cannot find any recent charts for 2011, but Eve Online sits way above a vast amount of other MMOs, its not niche at all, its one of the biggest MMOs out there. Stop gauging subscription base on WoW, its a freak of the genre.
If all sandboxes where made with the same quality that Eve Online is made with, we wouldn't have people calling them niche anymore.
Also to those who claim there is no pve, or poor pve in Eve Online...
Missions (1-5, varying difficulty and skill requirement)
Sleepers (Significantly more difficult AI than missions inside wormhole space, beyond C3 you need a group, and it goes upto C6, if you want a PVE challenge way beyond any other PVE challenge here it is.)
The recently added incursions. Loads of people can join one in progress and help remove it, rewards and loot abound.
Popping rats in asteroid belts in all different secs (hi, low, null)
Enerzeal is right, the only MMO in the western market with more subscribers than EVE is WoW.
EVE is not niche, it's the second largest MMO in the western world.
Which makes me wonder why the hell developers don't want to copy it (Perpetuum aside).
Sadly there is no info on current subs in mmogs since mmogchart.com stopped updating in 2008. And by that time EVE had just 1,5% (240k) of all MMOG subs. While, for example, Dofus (french game probably not so much people know about) had 450k subs and that is 2,8%. So ok, EVE now have 360k subs and that is probably be the same 1,5% because WoW got another 2 millions subs by 2010, plus other new games and etc. And that is just about p2p games, since no one knows what's going up in f2p market.
And don't forget about two things:
1) a lot of people in EVE have more than one account
2) no data on asian market at all
So you going to tell us that game played by 1% of all p2p mmo gamers isn't a niche game?
P.S. Just found a news here that Dofus got 3,5 millions subs in 2010.
So the way your factor it, city of heroes is niche?
Lord of the rings is niche?
Warhammer is niche?
Like someone said, Eve currently has one of the largest shares of the P2P market in the west, I believe rift and WoW are above it, and Rift seems to be losing members fast.
Mate, you were the one who started talking about numbers, not i. And now you are talking about what? Gameplay? Target audience? Or something else?
You forgot about Dooooofus
That is a problem of western game developers that they do WoW clones that no one going to play. So people play Aion, Lineage 2 and other asian games. But most of em are f2p, so you'll never know. If we are talking about numbers again there are about 22 millions western p2p mmo gamers now acording to this chart, so as i said before it's exactly the same 1,5% for EVE. That is what your "largest share" actually is.
P.S. All that i'm trying to say that right now WoW has that huge number of subs because all mainstream subs are actually WoW subs (+Rift atm). So anything else is a niche game of some kind. And there is nothing bad about it actually. Just saying that if you copy EVE you don't get some share of WoW subs, because they don't care about EVE itself. So you will mostly fight for EVE subs and that will not do any good for both of this games. It's not safe for em to lose 100k or 200k subs like it is for WoW.
The problem with your argument though is coming back to numbers without relation to the game data. Its the example of "its niche because only 1% of all gamers player it" despite the fact you can't actually statistically say that because you can't also be sure how many players actually crossover and play other game titles as well.
To the OP and the problem of that argument: even in games where there is no PvP you STILL HAVE THE ELEMENT OF EMPHASIZING DPS. In that respect most posters seem to jump on EvE and also assume that DPS SOLELY MATTERS WHEN IT REALITY IT ALSO ISN'T THE SOLE EMPHASIS. To illstrate this problem one of my favorite non~PvP titles is FF11. Melee classes emphasize DPS more than anything; not defensive capability or what not but DPS. Your DRK, RNG, MNK are built to deal damage and your tanks are built to hold hate and your healers to cure people.
In contrast to EvE you get more complex gameplay with not everyone there just loading the biggest guns and what not; you get support ships, logistic ships, assault, etc. I would also say that saying "oh there is no nearby npc's to kill" also fail to take into account the actual games elements in some cases: why would an NPC pirate be found so close to a heavily secured zone? As I would jest, its like the fesh prince of bel-air, you're saying no one would notice the black man in bel-air as much as no policing npc force would realistically not notice npc pirates going through a gate with a dozen or so of their ships in their most heavily policed areas and that would apply to the nations npc's as well? Hell its the same situation like in Die Hard where Bruce Willis had to wear the sign in Harlem about black people: we can assume some things are noticeable and would make the player say "well that's dumb".
The other part of it is saying sandbox design and PvP is a nich and lack epic PvE is peculiar due to EvE as they technically have boasted PvE numbers in the thousands. I think the problem of your point is that whereby in Aion its the directive of the game (one side against another) in EvE it isn't; your open to participate in various activities against other corporations, nations and pirates. In that respect its possible to also argue that it isn't so one-dimensional as Aion where its one side versus another or WoW where the sides are clearly defined. Unlike EvE you can't be sure if those your playing with are in fact either traitors or legitimate allies let alone you have enemies at varying scales from the enemoies of your nation, faction, corporation and alliance which also result in often times over-arching enemies and allies.
Obviously because this is such a niche game, so few people pay attention to it and no one ever thinks about EvE. I meam this sh*t is actually in fact niche because its so easy that anyone can do it and it would've been easier to make it like Aion where you say "its side A versus B" and then we'd all be happy right? I mean why make sh8t hard and complex and not feel like you can have a more player~community driven game? I mean who wants that stuff?
....then again I expect flame upon flame so why bother arguing back. No one ever agrees with anything and always believe "omgz my ideas pawn all others".
Wow was advertised with PvP between the Factions in mind.
When Guild Wars came along, Blizzard added BG to the Game, adding true Endgame PvP format, especially back in Vanilla WoW when Old AV could run for days at a time. Many people would queue in a spend their day in AV PvPing rather than Raiding (which was PvE's Endgame back then)
As of today. WoW has both PvE Endgame, and PvP Endgame.
PvE Only MMO doesnt hold up nowadays. PvP MMO doesnt hold up nowadays.
Remember LoTRO? it was a PvE MMO at one point. That was slowly changed over as well.
Warhammer was PvP focused MMO. It died do to a lack of contents early on. PvP alone just doesnt hold up anymore.
This is why Sandbox MMORPG need both formats of endgame. Not just PvP with Crafting on the side.
The only arguments I hear from this thread in defense of my OP, is Crafting, Crafting Crafting.
That there is the problem. In sandbox MMORPG, PvE only consist of Crafting things. But where is the PvE combat? There seems to be Little Endgame PvE Combat. Only PvE Crafting.
NPC are spaced out too thin, and dull fighting in group format.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design