Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Is there something that prevents the consoles from having MMORPGs with Persistent world?
MMOExposed
Member RarePosts: 7,400
I believe the Sony PS3 has DCO which is a MMO with Persistent world. Correct me if I am wrong there.
But is there something different about sony network/hardware that allow them to do this, but not the 360/wii?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Comments
the marvel universe chose pc and XBOX and DC has chosen PC and PS3
Hey could Nintendo pull something like this off? I was just wondering, because with the rumors of their new system being more hardcore, I was just wondering would it be capable of supporting MMO with persistent world using the current network if they decided to use the same or better tech
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Doubt it.
I've heard that Nitendo's new system will only be marginally better than both the 360 and PS3. (Kinda like the Dreamcast back in the day)
I am of course assuming that Nintendo's new system, though likely boasting more raw processing power, likely will not have much in the way of actual RAM, which I personally believe is the reason I believe we haven't seen too many MMOs release on this platform.
IMO you will likely need to wait for the next generation of consoles from Microsoft and Sony
Linked below is an articles (although old) about Microsoft being in talks with Blizzard about development on the next xbox, as well as Microsoft attempting to create infrastructure capable of allowing up to 300000 players to interact on one server.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/90490-UPDATE-Blizzard-Talking-With-Microsoft-Over-Next-Xbox
http://kotaku.com/#!5272297/microsoft-shooting-for-a-300000-player-online-game
As for MMOs on this generation of consoles, I personnaly don't see anything particularly good, much less, designed specifically for the platform (See DCUO and FFX), essentially giving both PC and console players a weird hybrid.
A game can only take up so much space on a console, that's why there is no WoW xbox360
Nintendo are fully against massively multiplayer games, if they weren't they would have jumped onto the band wagon a long time ago, they have so many franchies which could have the MMO treatment (Mario, Donkey Kong -think about it- Zelda, Star Fox, Metroid Prime and Pokemon to name a few) And tbh, I respect Nintendo for doing this. I like having some titles as solid single player games. Unless ofcourse Nintendo created an entirely new IP for an MMO......
But back to console MMO'ing, I think its more to do with the fact that mouse/keyboard makes the persistent world of an MMO more persistent, I know you can get a mouse/keyboard for a PS3/360 but who wants to to play a game?
And if you don't have a keyboard/mouse you'll find youself getting annoyed with auction houses, trading, big menus, inspecting players, selling, buying etc.
The reason people would want to play an MMO on a console would be to play it on a console, not emulate a PC with a keyboard/mouse.
But maybe this is just my opinion alone.
I don't mean to sound big headed... But I know Voldemort.
I went through 9 360's as a "casual" player, mabey racking up 5- 10 hours a week or so.
As an MMO gamer i usually game 15-20 hours a week. I used to play a lot more when i didnt have kids ( 25-30hrs/week).
I sudder to think how many failboxes i would have went through playing an MMO on one, i was in fear of the RROD everytime i hit the power button.
Well Nintendo didnt support M rated games that much ether, but rumor has it they are going more hardcore.
So there could be room.
Also they suppose to have a 6" touch screen. would that sup for a Mouse at least?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I remember reading them saying something on the lines of "Dont' hold your breath" when it came to a Pokemon MMO.
And lets be honest, the best franchise that Nintendo owns that would cross over to an MMO the easiest is Pokemon, we know that, Nintendo know that.
So if they don't plan on making a Pokemon MMO, I wouldn't expect them to make an MMO at all.
But, they have started implementing more multiplayer online options into their games, which may be a step forward?
But I won't "hold my breath"
I don't mean to sound big headed... But I know Voldemort.
wouldnt something like that be Turnbased?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Xbox 360 does have an MMORPG. They received a port of FFXI.
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/rpg/finalfantasy11/index.html?&tag=stitialclk;gamespace
is secret world still going to be release on the xbox?
It's mostly the subscription fee really, most console gamers don't understand what that fee is for-lots of backlash was on DCUO for that (though in all honesty a lower or f2p model would have been better).
Also Microsoft prevents it a lot. X-box live is 50-60$. MMO's try to bypass that you need a Live subscription but Microsoft will usually say no to this meaning a MMO on an X-box costs 65--75$ ouch.
I don't think there is anything that keeps consoles from having a persistant world. Like you mentioned DCUO is a persistant world and ffxiv(lol) is one too and will be on ps3. As far as consoles taking over the MMO market, sadly I think it is inevitable. PC used to dominate the FPS world, now PC is hardly the go to for FPS gamers(I freaking hate this).
Consoles seem to creep in and take over every aspect of gaming and with further advances with internet speeds and hardware capabilities, mark my words they will take over MMO market. (I will be kicking and screaming just like FPS games) There really isn't any reason to think that they won't. People used to use the argument of keyboards for online FPS games too and that was fixed with voice chat. As internet bandwith capabilites increase and the use of VOIP programs like vent become the norm for MMOs it's only a matter of time before companies integrate that into the games.
As far as this generation of consoles is concerned I don't think it's going to happen. One or two console generations down the road though, I think PC gaming will be a thing of the past. There are too major reasons for this.
1: compared to PC gaming, console gaming is cheap, you can spend the same amount of money and get an awesome TV, a ps3 and xbox 360 that you would spend on a "decent" gaming PC. Around $1500-2000.
2: Like consoles or not you have to admit they cut down on cheating. This helped the FPS genre move over to consoles, no hackers aloud! On top of that it levels the playing field, people hate that to get the same performance as others they have to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on PC upgrades.
I hate it too, but I'm willing to admit that is the most likely future.
Its very possible to run MMOs on consoles. I just hope it never catches on widely on consoles.
This is one of the few genres that is still relatively safe from consolization.
Memory is a lot cheaper than it used to be. Both the Xbox 360 and the PS3 have a total of 512 MB of memory, if you add system memory and video memory together. Today, you can easily get DDR3 memory modules at retail for $10/GB. That includes PCB and packaging cost and is after markups from the memory module manufacturer, the distributor, and the retailer, so the memory chips themselves surely cost far less than that. If it costs $10 to put 2 GB into a next generation Microsoft or Sony console, will they really refuse to pay even that? Will even Nintendo, which is far more sensitive to costs, refuse to pay that?
-----
Another big problem is the controls.
"Also they suppose to have a 6" touch screen. would that sup for a Mouse at least?"
No. Touch screens don't offer remotely near the precision of a decent mouse.
MMORPGs are mostly designed to use a keyboard and mouse. Consoles offer neither, but instead use gamepads. That's not enough buttons available for most MMORPGs.
Even in a game like Champions Online, which was originally meant to be ported to the Xbox 360, so the controls are about as console-friendly as you'll get, a lot of things can be done with a gamepad. But nowhere near everything, and I often have to put down the gamepad and grab the keyboard and mouse.
-----
One big barrier is the business model. Microsoft and Sony usually lose money on every console they sell. The plan is to make it up by taking a cut of sales from games. If you charge a $15/month subscription fee and the console manufacturer takes 1/3 of that (that's a made up number; I'm not sure how big the fraction is), you're only getting $10/month. If you try to charge $22/month so that you still get your $15/month like on a PC, then why should gamers pay that rather than getting the PC version? If Microsoft and Sony don't take a cut of the proceeds, then they lose money on their console businesses, which is obviously intolerable.
EQOA is probably my favorite console MMO. I believe FFXI also was on the xbox.
So yes, it's definently possible if someone wanted to do it.
It only took me 1 RROD to give up on my 360 O.o (Of course it happened about 6 months after the 3 year warrantty was up)
That said, I did actually play FFXI on my 360, it was kinda nice to be able to sit on my couch and play vs. sitting at my desk....
A few things I can think of off the top of my head.
1) Monthly sub costs. As someone else mentioned, DCUO caught a lot of flak in console circles because of a monthly sub. Pure console gamers don't seem to understand that not all games are a one-time fee purchase.
2) Control scheme. The GUI of the mmorpg would need to be changed in order for the game to work well on a console. Imagine trying to do most things in a mmo using a controller. I personally find many console games GUI's to be extremely clunky compared to many pc games. Consoles would need to support mouse and keyboard control schemes to really reel folks in.
3) Memory. MMORPG's start off smallish, but over the course of years, the size of the game grows quite a bit. Consoles would need expandable Harddrives, or a lot of memory to begin with. When that happens, the difference between a console and pc blurs.
4) Support. What happens to mmorpgs when they fall out of fashion and have a small but devoted fanbase, or when the next gen console comes out? Yes, the ps2 EQ game is still going, but how easily can an interested person get a hold of a copy now? Games like EQ and UO, I can go and download the game from their site, get a free trial and play to my heart's content.
5) Cost benefit. So for the same price as my gaming rig, I could have purchased a PS3, 32" HD TV, a number of games, and have cash to spare. However, on my rig I can also; check email, do homework, cruise the web, build a website, do photo editing, chat with friends around the country using various chat messengers, etc... Consoles are built to play games, dvds, blu-rays. That's pretty much it. Having a PC is just far too useful to abandon PC gaming. Non-traditional gamers are far more likely to own a pc and get into gaming. Which means that the PC market has a larger potential target audience. Hell, look at Facebook gaming for proof in that.
Hardware wise one of the old problems with consoles(and maybe still didn't really look with the new gen) is that consoles to have very small amounts of RAM and/or hard drive space. This is VERY limiting when playing games with changing worlds and players that can be anywhere at anytime. In normal games this isn't a problem because you can just run off the CD.
I as other game devs get lazier and stop releasing finshed game, RAM and hard drive space on consoles has gone up so that a good thing for the idea of more MMOs on consoles, wither thats a good thing is debatable.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
I'd say the number one reason MMO's shouldn't run on PS3 is because SOE can't protect your personal data and the dang Playstation Network is down
I haven't been able to watch Netflix for a week, why would I want to have an MMO contingent upon their stupid network?
I think it is mostly just the hardware that prevents more standard sized mmo's from being made on consoles.
Console hardware can't really support them in a few ways (generally not as powerful overall, less durable), they just aren't built to sustain the looong playtime hours and type of beating a true MMO requires and applies.
For one example, look at how well PC's handle abuse. You can leave them on for an entire day, day after day, and use it for years like that without experiencing any problems. But if you were to do that to a console, long story short, it won't be working for long.
Off topic but netflix still works on the ps3. I've watched since all the account stuff happened.
Err ... Persistent World <> MMO.
MMO is a massively multiplayer, not just normal multiplayer.
That doesnt mean just persistent, it means you can have a ton of players on one server. Thousands if you have the hardware and the internet connection for it.
FFXI launched on the PS2
then later expanded to the PC and other consoles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XI
EQ2 fan sites
agree -- I'm still watching netflix instantwatch movies on my PS3
Netflix initially wants you to sign in but when the PSN login fails, the Netflix service still works
EQ2 fan sites