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ok so what is it you UO fans want?
MMOExposed
Member RarePosts: 7,400
Well the rest of the community vents about what they want, let's hear what UO fans wants.
I am a bit confused by their desire. I am sure MMORPG developers would be as well.
I assumed UO fans simply wanted the hardcore death penalty that came with it, but there are many MMORPG with that, including TP MMORPG have that. But that still makes them uphappy. Well then I figured it was the controlled world. But EVE has that correct? Yet that still doesn't satisfy their wants. Could it be the sci fi feel of eve that leaves it unwanted by the UO fans? Well sandbox world plus fantasy world? Well we have Darkfall and Mortal Online. Why doesn't these please the UO fans? I am still confused by what they seek. By making a MMORPG that is similar to UO, would it be ridiculed by clone comments like WoW and EQ has?
I am a bit confused by their desire. I am sure MMORPG developers would be as well.
I assumed UO fans simply wanted the hardcore death penalty that came with it, but there are many MMORPG with that, including TP MMORPG have that. But that still makes them uphappy. Well then I figured it was the controlled world. But EVE has that correct? Yet that still doesn't satisfy their wants. Could it be the sci fi feel of eve that leaves it unwanted by the UO fans? Well sandbox world plus fantasy world? Well we have Darkfall and Mortal Online. Why doesn't these please the UO fans? I am still confused by what they seek. By making a MMORPG that is similar to UO, would it be ridiculed by clone comments like WoW and EQ has?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Comments
ArcheAge is looking good. I want a game with a sociopolitical aspect. I like EvE but I don;t like being stuck inside my ship the whole time. It would be nice to have things to do and walk around in space stations etc.
My theme song.
mind if I as why Darkfall and MO didn't work for you?Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I'm more than happy with the way EVE and to a lesser extent DF are developing.
UO was amazing, but as much as I would love an updated (graphics) version of the pre Tram game, the current mmo community is vastly different to back in the day. So it wouldn't be the same anyway.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Since EVE is ever improving, the development team have finally begun the process of adding "walking in stations". The first portion of the rollout is called "Captains Quarters" and the last will include full station access and player to player interraction, and many more aspecs I'm sure that they haven't yet released about the launch of Incarna this summer.
Here you go:
http://youtu.be/eNWWxD-q-bg
http://youtu.be/4z4WljKJx9A
http://youtu.be/xF3KLeKJkjw
http://youtu.be/dYImKxLgWaM
This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.
I'm an old UO fan and I played Darkfall. It didn't work for me because the focus of Darkfall is all on gank-PvP and grinding, while UO was more about living in a virtual fantasy world.
I don't think that a lot of people understand what made UO great. It wasn't the FFA PvP or full loot, which many people felt it was. To me, UO was great because it allowed you to have a lot of freedom in affecting the world as a player while still remaining very much an RPG game. Further, UO has a strong emphasis on the social aspect of the game, which is really what should differentiate an MMO from other games. This made it very dynamic.
In UO, you could explore the wilds to find a completely player built town that wasn't there a few weeks ago. Whenever I played UO, I never knew what to expect, and this is what kept me coming back. In all the modern MMO's, it feels like I'm playing a co-op or competitive single player game. The social aspect is downplayed and it's all about grinding for exp. Unless the developer patches the game, you can expect every area in the game world to be fairly static.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
You got it exactly.
My theme song.
Comparing UO to Mortal Online or Darkfall is like comparing Fallout3 to Diablo2.
Apples and oranges.
UO was a fantasy world simulator while MO or DF was just b-class gankfests.
I agree. But I think it's important to note that UO was just the beginnings of this. It still had a long ways to go, or could go.
Of course, they didn't have the kinds of financing that today's AAA games get.
Once upon a time....
I want MiBs, T-Maps, Player run shops / inns, taming mounts / mounts that don't magically appear, player created towns, houses that can be decorated anyway you want, stealing from players bags, free for all skill based pvp with a good "PK / Red" system...
Hell .... I Want UO (Pre-Tram) recreated exactly as it was except in 3D with Modern graphics.
MMO Strategy Guides
Darkfall and MO really have very LITTLE in comparison with Ultima Online. Darkfall and MO focus around combat an a skill system and thats really about where the comparisons ends.
Ultima Online allowed to be become part of a virtual world where your actions felt like they have actual repercusions within the game world. You could litterly become just about anything you wanted to. Rather its a nortious robber that hangs out at a certain cross roads or the hero that comes along to save the day from said robber. All of the options where there for you and you could make a name for yourself within the game world. It offered options for just about anything you could want to do within the confines of the virtual world it was set within.
Darkfall and MO both fail when it comes to giving you that feeling of fitting in within the world. They both feel more like pvp simulators then a virutal world simulator.
Would you accept that without the PKing/looting/drive-by-thieves and a lot more players?
Edit: I'll take that back. You said with a good PK/Red system. And at that point in time, they had a pretty good one that was almost there. Just needed a little more boost and a couple of glitches fixed. With that, I think it would work wildly well, once gamers found out the system and saw it working.
Once upon a time....
Excuse me for jumping in here, but personally the answer to that would be an emphatic... NO.
Why do peope feel the need to chase masses of subs at the cost of the dynamics of a game? You could probably get a lot more players by making it a themepark with a cash shop, I wouldn't want that crap either.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
First off, I edited my post, I know you couldn't have seen that. But secondly, how good do you want the game? The masses matter, and "UO done right" could draw them.
Once upon a time....
Yeah and I think back in the UO days, most of us players thought that's what was going to happen with future MMORPGs. I know I was looking forward to things like more/better world interactivity features. I wanted to be able to do things like plant crops and have them grow (and not like FFXI!), hire NPCs to tend my estate while I'm away, have more control over decoration etc. etc.
But all of this went away, world interactivity has been put at the bottom of the list on modern MMORPGs. How much can you interact with the world in WoW? You're lucky if you can even sit in a chair.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I'm with you. The old PK/stealing system of UO could be fun, but it was a major pain in the ass most of the time. If a new UO came out, it would have to be massively remodeled. I don't know that you would have to get rid of open world PvP all together, but maybe just restrict it somehow, something like EvE' high and low sec sectors?
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Yeah, I missed the edit I'm afraid.
"Done right" in whose eyes exactly? For the poster you were questioning it seems like he prefered the pre Tram, more open pvp. I feel the same. I'd rather not see the game or it's like again then some bastardized version made to land grab as many casuals as possible. Others, will ofc, have a different view on that matter though ofc.
As for the 'masses matter' well not really, not unless you are actively chasing the Wow dollar. As long as a game has a healthy enough population for it to run, the 'masses' matter not a jot.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Dont forget it was back then one first real mmo's you could play and that was offcorse awesome so most who start with UO wanne get that feeling back but that will never happen again im affraid.
For myself it was Asheron calls and i will never get that feeling back that i had back then in first year.
Darkfall was never made to replace mmo's like UO or AC it had ideas of UO-AC and other games and was mainly designed for hardcore pvp not a social virtual fantasy world, so if ex-UO thought Darkfall would give them that feeling they had in UO then they where mistaken its a totally different game.
Your confusion lies in thinking that harsh death penalty is a primary or even significant desire from the majority of UO fans.
- functional player owned structures in the game world
- guild-defined GvG objectives and win conditions as well as FFA with reasonably safe areas.
- locations/structures for gatherings and social interactions
- the ability to carve out one's space
- dynamic. enhanceable loot
- actual rogue skills : trapping, detecting traps, lock picking, disguises, snooping, stealth, stealing
- quick and easy travel to get to where the event or action is
- developer run live events (dedicated Content Team and Seer program)
- player owned shops and vendors
- freeform storage containers
- near endless storage compared to today's MMOs. For example, the smallest of houses can store over 800 item stacks.
- active combat that makes use of mounts, terrain and line of sight
- if you liked a look on Day 1, there were often still ways to maintain that look even years later without it negatively impacting stats.
There's a long list of features that UO fans desire - harsh death penalty is one of them, but it is really far down on the list for anyone but the most diehard of PvPers.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I continually come to this site and see people repeating this over and over again in as many ways as it can be typed! It's a generalization and isn't true for all of us by far I'd wager. I enjoyed original EQ just as much as UO although they were very different games! I enjoyed both precisely because they were very different games! Even WoW had some uniqueness to it when it first launched (albeit not too much). Seems to me alot of the old school gamers aren't raving about the newer games because they don't offer much in the way of revolutionary game play.
You nailed it,the only thing i would like to add is rares... while they were totaly accidental they were a blast to collect and opened up a whole new area for spending time in the game.
We had a game that could of been the next big uo type of game called irth onlne but the owner or who ever he was that ruined it.
played M59,UO,lineage,EQ,Daoc,Entropia,SWG,Horizons,Lineage2.EQ2,Vangaurd,Irth online, DarkFall,Star Trek
and many others that did not make the cut or i just plain forgetting about.
I agree, the main thing for me is interactivity with the environment, there has never been a game like UO where you can intertact with the environment, pick things up/ put things down.. place a home... put stuff in it.. customize ones look without having to be disadvantaged for doing so... man it was a great game... IDOCS... man those were fun!
Archeage looks great, and I sure hope it is... its our best shot I think considering the changes the industry has gone through
Remember Old School Ultima Online
wait but why cant you do this in Darkfall/MO/Eve again?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I was there and talked to alot of people who left. I was part of a huge roleplay/semi-roleplay community, so there was a lot to draw from.
What I gathered was that UO was almost there with their justice system. It was working very well as far as limiting the rampant PKing, yet allowing for confrontations when it mattered according to a "worldly" view. The primary thing people were leaving for was that there were a few abuses left in the system.
PKers had "counts" of murders, and they could stay in ghost form and work them off by sitting at a bank unattended, 24/7 (or as close as you could get with the daily maintenance), thus skirting the "punishment".
PKers could steal from you and if you attacked them, and they then killed you, you could not give them a murder count. This cause players to be forced to leave areas they wanted to be in because they felt helpless against characters built to PK this way.
Thieves could target items in your backpack safely, then run by you and macro the "steal", again leaving players feeling helpless.
Thieves could steal items from you at the bank, and quickly drop it into their own banks, thus even though they got guard whacked or killed by players, they got your item. Which might be a very good item.
Even so, most of this was limited due to the system. But by that time, most players were simply fed up with it all, and EQ was out. I don't know how many times leaving players told me that they liked UO better overall, but they simply had enough.
I don't think that "casuals" in that form are as abundant as most people claim. Most players who claim to be casual simply mean they can't play as much as others.
But the "masses" are possible for a great game like UO was, only better, and without the loopholes in the justice system. Because without the loopholes, players could then work with the justice system, bringing players closer together in a socailly interactive way that no game has yet shown, not even old UO. And I think most players would like this, but don't know it yet because they simply have never seen anything like it. It allows for crime, and a more realistic world, and for things to "be happening" that brings the world more alive.
I do think that a game like UO in worldiness, without PKing at all, but with restricted warfare, would draw even more players. Only because of the bad stigma that PKers have given the whole PvP thing.
And come on people. Masses do matter. It's what drives profits and allows for more and better additional game content.
Once upon a time....
wait, out of that list, which cant you do in Darkfall/ MO?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I can't speak to EvE or MO, but you definitely cannot do that in Darkfall. Darkfall has player housing, but you just buy houses and place them on PRE-DETERMINED plots. You are not actually changing the world, you are just purchasing something that basically already exists. Darkfall also has guild cities, but once again, they are in pre-determined plots. Don't get me wrong, the guild cities were fun, but they are a far cry from UO.
In UO, cities grew organically, because you could place a house anywhere there was sufficient space. Further, the high degree of world interactivity in UO allowed for things like cities to exist. For example, if you want to build a tavern, you just buy a house, fill it with tables and chairs, decorate outside, and get a vendor to sell drinks. You couldn't do anything like this in DF.
In DF, guild cities were all basically pre-made and you just "unlocked" their functionality by purchasing it. It wasn't like the organic growth of UO cities.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?