WvWvW and the infamous big number zerg guilds(goon squad, ebonlore etc etc)..

Don86

I've heard that GW2 improved alot on the original concepts of DAOC.

Some ex-DAOC online players I've spoken to have said that the daoc system allows small groups to roam around and if they played well they can take on mass numbers of 100+ even if they are in groups of 8. (Sorry I've never played DAOC before)

Games like WAR, Aion and AOC(if i recall correctly) have made extremely big numbered zerg guilds like goon squad very notorious to the point where people will not roll on that server's opposite faction.

I want to ask whether the WvWvW system in GW2 places more emphasis on small group combat/tactical fighting(like DAOC?) rather than the "big zerg takes all" situation like we've seen in WAR and Aion.

Thanks.

chikso

Let's see...I can only answer your question about the "small but organised vs large zerg" concern, here is a quote directly from ANet's latest interview: http://guildwars.incgamers.com/blog/comments/guild-wars-2-interview-part-2

---

With the amount of skill the game is supposed to require with the active combat, have you seen any cases in testing to where a much smaller group is able to defeat a much larger group in PvP with enough skill?

Absolutely, a small group can defeat a larger group when fighting each other. We have a few players that are quite good at the game right now, generally now my reaction when I see them is to turn and run, even with an ally or two with me. There’s definitely a lot of is skill involved in the game.

We introduced some new players to our PvP environment recently and when they first started playing, not their very first game, a couple of games in when they had a grasp of the basics, we had a player who was beating people, he would kill like nine players in a row. Eventually as time progressed a lot of the players who were getting beaten by him are now as good as him, maybe even better. There’s definitely that sort of skill and learning how to play the game.

Everyone thought the profession he was playing was completely broken and then he switched to another one and they were saying that one was now broken.

---

cali59

The first thing to remember is that it's a 3 faction system.  So even if one server fields double the number of people as the other two, the numbers are still equal strength if the other two servers unite against them.

Also, the servers you play against change every time the match rotates (a week or two), with servers matched up against servers of equal strength.  Whatever a server's winning strategy is, whether it be zerging or skill or tactics or all of the above, they can expect a harder fight next time.

We might possibly expect to see a bunch of servers fighting to recruit the best PVPers, where the top 3, 6 or 9 servers all rotate and fight each other in huge matches.

I also think that if it did become hopelessly imbalanced where one server had a massive PVP population then all ArenaNet has to do is cap the world PVP population with a queueing system.  They could put in a dynamic cap which limits any server to double the population of the other two combined.  That way the server maintains its numerical advantage without ever becoming absurd, as well as limiting transfers to it (why risk a queue when you can play elsewhere with no queue?)

MumboJumbo

Adding to the above:

1. There's a range of objectives that are achievable by different team sizes from a few ppl to a unit, squad etc. which impact larger objectives and the success larger groups will need to achieve those.

2. Higher level players are intended to be fighting at the thick of the action so if you have some high levels vs lots of low levels it would possibly be interesting?

3. Numbers of players in WvW are going to be important whatever happens because of big battle fields, lots of objectives and 3 factions and sheer numbers gives an advantage to all these. A lot depends on the design of WvW as to how dependent it will be on zergs. There will likely be dependence on numbers^ but maybe ArenaNet can program in some Sun Tzu set-ups for these battlefields eg sieges, cut supply lines etc, don't fight a war on 2 fronts etc...

DarkPony

I think like all massive pvp scenario's, coordination will be just as important as having a numeric advantage.

Organize your server well, make alliances with other guilds, make sure most heads are in the same direction; have dedicated intel gatherers and dedicated leaders and at all costs ... AVOID internal server troubles and elitist attitudes and your server has a good chance on being succesful.

It will be great to see how servers where the large guilds screwed up in the social aspect of being part of a whole server are likely to meet their downfall in WvWvW.

i.e. Having large pvp focussed guilds on your server might be a blessing or a curse.

(Disclaimer: I used to think they would dominate WvWvW as well but I am not so sure of that anymore).

Palebane

If things work out right, the best worlds will be going to war against the other best worlds, most of the time. And if not, hopefully the other two worlds, together, can hold them off. Also, I will not be participating in anything that has a queue.

tinuelle

There is really only one thing that counters the zerg tactics, and that is brilliant skill and combat tactics.

Most others lack the brilliant skill and much of the tactics, hence they cannot compete vs. the zerg.

 

On the other hand, its much more fun to fight the zerg and win, than fighting someone of almost equal skill and win.

I love fighting vs. the zerg (or beeing outnumbered as I call it).

There is nothing more satisfying than beeing a small group and attack and defeat a group twice your own groups size.

 

Hail to the zerg, many games would not be the same for me without it.

jondifool

Originally posted by Don86

I've heard that GW2 improved alot on the original concepts of DAOC.

Some ex-DAOC online players I've spoken to have said that the daoc system allows small groups to roam around and if they played well they can take on mass numbers of 100+ even if they are in groups of 8. (Sorry I've never played DAOC before)

Games like WAR, Aion and AOC(if i recall correctly) have made extremely big numbered zerg guilds like goon squad very notorious to the point where people will not roll on that server's opposite faction.

I want to ask whether the WvWvW system in GW2 places more emphasis on small group combat/tactical fighting(like DAOC?) rather than the "big zerg takes all" situation like we've seen in WAR and Aion.

Thanks.

 

First: like said The WvWvW is supposed to be unbalanced! (aka impossible to balance!)

Second: ArenaNet have stated that there will be alot of things to do for small groups. (can't find the qoute now, but something about claiming and returning with resources being needed for bith attack and defense, something that already was a bit of in Fort Aspenwood scenarie in GW1, claiming resources from mines to repair gates and respawn NPC defenders) 

third: don't exspect the unbalance from DAOC where 8 players could take out 100+ to carry over to GW2. (and thats a good thing it doesn't). But skill will matter, I ekspect the effect to be more like the ones seen in 1PS where having a few good players on your side would mean a lot in a game lie Counter Strike or Battlefield , Not to talk about how much a coordinated team meant for a Match.

Fourth: having NO and absolutly no opposite factions on servers give a whole other way to balance WvWvW. I recommend you to look into that and read about the rotating opponents in a weekly (or biweekly) turn, for servers vs server battles

Exspect your server to be paired against equal opposition most of the time. Aswell will the Zerg servers have their hands full against other Zerg servers. 

Ender4

I can't imagine anyone avoiding the goon squad, that guild is like free kills.

Their plan is to be more middle of the road like DAOC (and no groups of 8 didn't beat groups of 100). The 3 sides and the fact there are more goals to capturing zones than just a big keep battle means smaller groups can do a lot more than in some other games.

Pilnkplonk

I can see folks like Goon squad succesful only if they take over the whole server, with everybody being subservient to them... since winning will require cooperation from your whole world. I know I will leave the server which contains a massive super-bullying guild (and I consider myself a kinda PvP freak). So if they want to sabotage and undermine the game, they're welcome. I'll send them flowes ocassionally from my new server.

So, if GS want to play rough they will have to walk the walk like the rest of us. I see nothing wrong with a "Goon Squad" server fighting it out on the ladder with the rest of us. However I somehow have a feeling they won't be doing to well when faced with a proper oppositon. In my experience, a loose federation of tight guilds or simply a realm that respects itself wins all the time. Game griefing creeps do not win unless the game is designed without cosideration of how human social nature impacts a massively multiplayer environment (which means vast majority of mmos so far).

Imo it's a fantastic system. Kudos to ANet for taking MMO world PvP to the next evolutionary step!

Morcotulcon

Soldier: "A thousand enemies are aproaching from the center, right and left fronts, sir. What should we do? we are only 400, including you, sir!"

General: "Bah, you're counting wrong soldier!"

Soldier: "Huh? I don't think so, sir. I have counted them 3 times. They are a thousand sir."

General: "Not them, boy. Us!"

Soldier: "Excuse me sir?"

General: "While they have their full force attacking us directly, I have already sent 100 soldiers in small groups to attack all their resources and caravans and a another 200 stronger soldiers to attack the villages, mercenary camps, mines, lumbers and mills they have left behind. We just have to hold them for a while and when they see they are getting trapped, they will lose their order and that's when we attack."

Soldier: "what about the other enemies, sir?"

General: "I made a plan with two of our other world Guilds. They are getting those distracted for a while!"

 

Just because! xD

dinams

Originally posted by Morcotulcon

Soldier: "A thousand enemies are aproaching from the center, right and left fronts, sir. What should we do? we are only 400, including you, sir!"

General: "Bah, you're counting wrong soldier!"

Soldier: "Huh? I don't think so, sir. I have counted them 3 times. They are a thousand sir."

General: "Not them, boy. Us!"

Soldier: "Excuse me sir?"

General: "While they have their full force attacking us directly, I have already sent 100 soldiers in small groups to attack all their resources and caravans and a another 200 stronger soldiers to attack the villages, mercenary camps, mines, lumbers and mills they have left behind. We just have to hold them for a while and when they see they are getting trapped, they will lose their order and that's when we attack."

Soldier: "what about the other enemies, sir?"

General: "I made a plan with two of our other world Guilds. They are getting those distracted for a while!"

 

Just because! xD

I guess this is what will happen in RP worlds (if there will be any) xD

n3verendR

Bottleneck and AoE.

 

WINNING.

Izkimar

Originally posted by jondifool

Originally posted by Don86

I've heard that GW2 improved alot on the original concepts of DAOC.

Some ex-DAOC online players I've spoken to have said that the daoc system allows small groups to roam around and if they played well they can take on mass numbers of 100+ even if they are in groups of 8. (Sorry I've never played DAOC before)

Games like WAR, Aion and AOC(if i recall correctly) have made extremely big numbered zerg guilds like goon squad very notorious to the point where people will not roll on that server's opposite faction.

I want to ask whether the WvWvW system in GW2 places more emphasis on small group combat/tactical fighting(like DAOC?) rather than the "big zerg takes all" situation like we've seen in WAR and Aion.

Thanks.

 

First: like said The WvWvW is supposed to be unbalanced! (aka impossible to balance!)

Second: ArenaNet have stated that there will be alot of things to do for small groups. (can't find the qoute now, but something about claiming and returning with resources being needed for bith attack and defense, something that already was a bit of in Fort Aspenwood scenarie in GW1, claiming resources from mines to repair gates and respawn NPC defenders) 

third: don't exspect the unbalance from DAOC where 8 players could take out 100+ to carry over to GW2. (and thats a good thing it doesn't). But skill will matter, I ekspect the effect to be more like the ones seen in 1PS where having a few good players on your side would mean a lot in a game lie Counter Strike or Battlefield , Not to talk about how much a coordinated team meant for a Match.

Fourth: having NO and absolutly no opposite factions on servers give a whole other way to balance WvWvW. I recommend you to look into that and read about the rotating opponents in a weekly (or biweekly) turn, for servers vs server battles

Exspect your server to be paired against equal opposition most of the time. Aswell will the Zerg servers have their hands full against other Zerg servers. 

Are you serious?  First of all look at the question that is answered in the interview.  The dev says that Guild Wars 2 will enable "much" smaller groups in  a fight to win out against a larger group if they are skilled enough.  How is that unbalanced?  If you are good enough you should be able to win against larger groups.  That's what makes the active combat so great, is you will be able to dodge attacks, actively block them, and position yourself to avoid dmg.  There will be no such thing as auto-attack by multiple people = for sure death.  

jondifool

Originally posted by WardTheGreat

Originally posted by jondifool

Originally posted by Don86

I've heard that GW2 improved alot on the original concepts of DAOC.

Some ex-DAOC online players I've spoken to have said that the daoc system allows small groups to roam around and if they played well they can take on mass numbers of 100+ even if they are in groups of 8. (Sorry I've never played DAOC before)

Games like WAR, Aion and AOC(if i recall correctly) have made extremely big numbered zerg guilds like goon squad very notorious to the point where people will not roll on that server's opposite faction.

I want to ask whether the WvWvW system in GW2 places more emphasis on small group combat/tactical fighting(like DAOC?) rather than the "big zerg takes all" situation like we've seen in WAR and Aion.

Thanks.

 

First: like said The WvWvW is supposed to be unbalanced! (aka impossible to balance!)

Second: ArenaNet have stated that there will be alot of things to do for small groups. (can't find the qoute now, but something about claiming and returning with resources being needed for bith attack and defense, something that already was a bit of in Fort Aspenwood scenarie in GW1, claiming resources from mines to repair gates and respawn NPC defenders) 

third: don't exspect the unbalance from DAOC where 8 players could take out 100+ to carry over to GW2. (and thats a good thing it doesn't). But skill will matter, I ekspect the effect to be more like the ones seen in 1PS where having a few good players on your side would mean a lot in a game lie Counter Strike or Battlefield , Not to talk about how much a coordinated team meant for a Match.

Fourth: having NO and absolutly no opposite factions on servers give a whole other way to balance WvWvW. I recommend you to look into that and read about the rotating opponents in a weekly (or biweekly) turn, for servers vs server battles

Exspect your server to be paired against equal opposition most of the time. Aswell will the Zerg servers have their hands full against other Zerg servers. 

Are you serious?  First of all look at the question that is answered in the interview.  The dev says that Guild Wars 2 will enable "much" smaller groups in  a fight to win out against a larger group if they are skilled enough.  How is that unbalanced?  If you are good enough you should be able to win against larger groups.  That's what makes the active combat so great, is you will be able to dodge attacks, actively block them, and position yourself to avoid dmg.  There will be no such thing as auto-attack by multiple people = for sure death.  

Offcause i am serious but now i am puzzled ? where and what do what i state contradict what you write here? the first statement is a qoute from ArenaNet: Its WvsWvsW, it will be unbalanced because of numbers. Did you read the second or third statement i wrote?

caremuchless

Originally posted by Don86

I've heard that GW2 improved alot on the original concepts of DAOC.

Some ex-DAOC online players I've spoken to have said that the daoc system allows small groups to roam around and if they played well they can take on mass numbers of 100+ even if they are in groups of 8. (Sorry I've never played DAOC before)

Games like WAR, Aion and AOC(if i recall correctly) have made extremely big numbered zerg guilds like goon squad very notorious to the point where people will not roll on that server's opposite faction.

I want to ask whether the WvWvW system in GW2 places more emphasis on small group combat/tactical fighting(like DAOC?) rather than the "big zerg takes all" situation like we've seen in WAR and Aion.

Thanks.

Smaller organized groups could take out larger groups in DAOC.

 

But I've never heard 8 vs 100. Hyperbole maybe?

Izkimar

Originally posted by jondifool

Originally posted by WardTheGreat

Originally posted by jondifool

Originally posted by Don86

I've heard that GW2 improved alot on the original concepts of DAOC.

Some ex-DAOC online players I've spoken to have said that the daoc system allows small groups to roam around and if they played well they can take on mass numbers of 100+ even if they are in groups of 8. (Sorry I've never played DAOC before)

Games like WAR, Aion and AOC(if i recall correctly) have made extremely big numbered zerg guilds like goon squad very notorious to the point where people will not roll on that server's opposite faction.

I want to ask whether the WvWvW system in GW2 places more emphasis on small group combat/tactical fighting(like DAOC?) rather than the "big zerg takes all" situation like we've seen in WAR and Aion.

Thanks.

 

First: like said The WvWvW is supposed to be unbalanced! (aka impossible to balance!)

Second: ArenaNet have stated that there will be alot of things to do for small groups. (can't find the qoute now, but something about claiming and returning with resources being needed for bith attack and defense, something that already was a bit of in Fort Aspenwood scenarie in GW1, claiming resources from mines to repair gates and respawn NPC defenders) 

third: don't exspect the unbalance from DAOC where 8 players could take out 100+ to carry over to GW2. (and thats a good thing it doesn't). But skill will matter, I ekspect the effect to be more like the ones seen in 1PS where having a few good players on your side would mean a lot in a game lie Counter Strike or Battlefield , Not to talk about how much a coordinated team meant for a Match.

Fourth: having NO and absolutly no opposite factions on servers give a whole other way to balance WvWvW. I recommend you to look into that and read about the rotating opponents in a weekly (or biweekly) turn, for servers vs server battles

Exspect your server to be paired against equal opposition most of the time. Aswell will the Zerg servers have their hands full against other Zerg servers. 

Are you serious?  First of all look at the question that is answered in the interview.  The dev says that Guild Wars 2 will enable "much" smaller groups in  a fight to win out against a larger group if they are skilled enough.  How is that unbalanced?  If you are good enough you should be able to win against larger groups.  That's what makes the active combat so great, is you will be able to dodge attacks, actively block them, and position yourself to avoid dmg.  There will be no such thing as auto-attack by multiple people = for sure death.  

Offcause i am serious but now i am puzzled ? where and what do what i state contradict what you write here? the first statement is a qoute from ArenaNet: Its WvsWvsW, it will be unbalanced because of numbers. Did you read the second or third statement i wrote?

Im calling the 8 vs. 100 comment about that being unbalanced a contradiction.  Because, if skill is present enough and important enough just like the interview shows "Guy beating 9 people in a row" then it wouldn't be unbalanced for 8 people to survive and possibly beat 100 players.  100 is a little high, but if a group is so tight knit and are customed to playing with each other, then there's no reason they shouldn't be able to this with skill alone in an active combat system where there is not auto-attacking.  If 1 guy killed 9 people in a row, and in a different situation 9 other guys with equal skill did the same and knew how to work together, do the math you'd get 90 people who are dead.  Is this likely?  Probably not gonna happen often.  It would be more of a slim chance against an organized zerg that is on vent.  However, I am quite sure it could happen, and what I'm trying to say is it wouldn't be unbalanced if it did, it would just be a showcase of super skill and teamwork. 

jondifool

Originally posted by WardTheGreat

Originally posted by jondifool

Originally posted by WardTheGreat

Originally posted by jondifool

Originally posted by Don86

I've heard that GW2 improved alot on the original concepts of DAOC.

Some ex-DAOC online players I've spoken to have said that the daoc system allows small groups to roam around and if they played well they can take on mass numbers of 100+ even if they are in groups of 8. (Sorry I've never played DAOC before)

Games like WAR, Aion and AOC(if i recall correctly) have made extremely big numbered zerg guilds like goon squad very notorious to the point where people will not roll on that server's opposite faction.

I want to ask whether the WvWvW system in GW2 places more emphasis on small group combat/tactical fighting(like DAOC?) rather than the "big zerg takes all" situation like we've seen in WAR and Aion.

Thanks.

 

First: like said The WvWvW is supposed to be unbalanced! (aka impossible to balance!)

Second: ArenaNet have stated that there will be alot of things to do for small groups. (can't find the qoute now, but something about claiming and returning with resources being needed for bith attack and defense, something that already was a bit of in Fort Aspenwood scenarie in GW1, claiming resources from mines to repair gates and respawn NPC defenders) 

third: don't exspect the unbalance from DAOC where 8 players could take out 100+ to carry over to GW2. (and thats a good thing it doesn't). But skill will matter, I ekspect the effect to be more like the ones seen in 1PS where having a few good players on your side would mean a lot in a game lie Counter Strike or Battlefield , Not to talk about how much a coordinated team meant for a Match.

Fourth: having NO and absolutly no opposite factions on servers give a whole other way to balance WvWvW. I recommend you to look into that and read about the rotating opponents in a weekly (or biweekly) turn, for servers vs server battles

Exspect your server to be paired against equal opposition most of the time. Aswell will the Zerg servers have their hands full against other Zerg servers. 

Are you serious?  First of all look at the question that is answered in the interview.  The dev says that Guild Wars 2 will enable "much" smaller groups in  a fight to win out against a larger group if they are skilled enough.  How is that unbalanced?  If you are good enough you should be able to win against larger groups.  That's what makes the active combat so great, is you will be able to dodge attacks, actively block them, and position yourself to avoid dmg.  There will be no such thing as auto-attack by multiple people = for sure death.  

Offcause i am serious but now i am puzzled ? where and what do what i state contradict what you write here? the first statement is a qoute from ArenaNet: Its WvsWvsW, it will be unbalanced because of numbers. Did you read the second or third statement i wrote?

Im calling the 8 vs. 100 comment about that being unbalanced a contradiction.  Because, if skill is present enough and important enough just like the interview shows "Guy beating 9 people in a row" then it wouldn't be unbalanced for 8 people to survive and possibly beat 100 players.  100 is a little high, but if a group is so tight knit and are customed to playing with each other, then there's no reason they shouldn't be able to this with skill alone in an active combat system where there is not auto-attacking.  If 1 guy killed 9 people in a row, and in a different situation 9 other guys with equal skill did the same and knew how to work together, do the math you'd get 90 people who are dead.  Is this likely?  Probably not gonna happen often.  It would be more of a slim chance against an organized zerg that is on vent.  However, I am quite sure it could happen, and what I'm trying to say is it wouldn't be unbalanced if it did, it would just be a showcase of super skill and teamwork. 

 I stand by my word , that i think its a good thing if skill matters but not to a degree where 8 can beat 100, as it worked in DaOC. IN DAoC it could be done but not only because of skill but because of gamemechanics favoring insane combos of AOE and CC. Luckely nothing so far shows this kind of imbalance in GW2. With that said, i don't read the 1 against 9 eksample like you do. I am much more seeing it as an eksample of the differense in skill as in a1PS setup. I simply don't think the math transfers from 1vs9 to 8 vs 72 (or 100). But it remains to be seen. 

Wreckoniing

its gonna suck being in the front line of these battles i can tell ya that.

pretice

I think the pvp should have friendly fire, that will definently make the good teams stand out.

but than i guess there will always be the dicks who run around and purposly tk. : /

Meowhead

Originally posted by pretice

I think the pvp should have friendly fire, that will definently make the good teams stand out.

but than i guess there will always be the dicks who run around and purposly tk. : /

Considering a lot of the attacks have positive effects for members of your own team, that would get confusing.

Do you stand in a firewall to deflect fire at enemies, or not, because you're burning to death?

Do you stand by the elementalist area attacks that do healing to team members?  Are you healing or dying?

Xasapis

It depends on the game. They are not having much of an impact in Rift for example.

Torgen

Originally posted by caremuchless

Originally posted by Don86

I've heard that GW2 improved alot on the original concepts of DAOC.

Some ex-DAOC online players I've spoken to have said that the daoc system allows small groups to roam around and if they played well they can take on mass numbers of 100+ even if they are in groups of 8. (Sorry I've never played DAOC before)

Games like WAR, Aion and AOC(if i recall correctly) have made extremely big numbered zerg guilds like goon squad very notorious to the point where people will not roll on that server's opposite faction.

I want to ask whether the WvWvW system in GW2 places more emphasis on small group combat/tactical fighting(like DAOC?) rather than the "big zerg takes all" situation like we've seen in WAR and Aion.

Thanks.

Smaller organized groups could take out larger groups in DAOC.

 

But I've never heard 8 vs 100. Hyperbole maybe?

 

Never heard of successful 8 vs 100 fights either but here are some nice 8 vs 16-40 Videos from youtube:

8 vs 40

Zerg vs Enna Bombs

Kyleran

Originally posted by Torgen

Originally posted by caremuchless

Originally posted by Don86

I've heard that GW2 improved alot on the original concepts of DAOC.

Some ex-DAOC online players I've spoken to have said that the daoc system allows small groups to roam around and if they played well they can take on mass numbers of 100+ even if they are in groups of 8. (Sorry I've never played DAOC before)

Games like WAR, Aion and AOC(if i recall correctly) have made extremely big numbered zerg guilds like goon squad very notorious to the point where people will not roll on that server's opposite faction.

I want to ask whether the WvWvW system in GW2 places more emphasis on small group combat/tactical fighting(like DAOC?) rather than the "big zerg takes all" situation like we've seen in WAR and Aion.

Thanks.

Smaller organized groups could take out larger groups in DAOC.

 

But I've never heard 8 vs 100. Hyperbole maybe?

 

Never heard of successful 8 vs 100 fights either but here are some nice 8 vs 16-40 Videos from youtube:

8 vs 40

Zerg vs Enna Bombs

I've been on the losing end of a 8 vs 24 fight, but that was back when TOA was fairly new and our oppoents had a huge advantage by having all their TOA skills (8 or so) while we were mostly ranks 2 and 3.

I might believe 8 vs 40 (there was a group of Hibs on our server, MLF run by a guy named "the General" and they were pretty legendary) out in open combat but remember, DAOC had severe crowd control mechanics back then, a single Sorcerer could hold you in place for up to a minute, (without counters), I haven't seen any game come remotely close to DAOC in this regard,

While smaller can beat larger (happens in EVE pretty often), there comes a tipping point, and no, I don't believe 5 will ever beat 50, especially if the 50 belong to a zerg guild like Goons.

Not sure how well Goons organize in other games, but in EVE they are most definitely a force to be reckoned with however they do not act like jerks to everyone, in fact I'm currently in a corp that's allied with them and we all fight together for a common goal, I suspect the same will be true in GW2.

Kaneth

A lot of this depends on how well ANet balances out the other aspects of the mists pvp. Sure a zerg can go around zerging, but ulimately the winner will most likely be who holds most keeps or whatever. Since ANet shared that smallish groups can harrass supply lines to make it easier to take on keeps, the value of a zerg might somewhat be diminished.

ANet has spoken a lot about reducing griefing in PvE, they might be bringing that same concept to PvP to an extent.

Don86

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Torgen

Originally posted by caremuchless

Originally posted by Don86

I've heard that GW2 improved alot on the original concepts of DAOC.

Some ex-DAOC online players I've spoken to have said that the daoc system allows small groups to roam around and if they played well they can take on mass numbers of 100+ even if they are in groups of 8. (Sorry I've never played DAOC before)

Games like WAR, Aion and AOC(if i recall correctly) have made extremely big numbered zerg guilds like goon squad very notorious to the point where people will not roll on that server's opposite faction.

I want to ask whether the WvWvW system in GW2 places more emphasis on small group combat/tactical fighting(like DAOC?) rather than the "big zerg takes all" situation like we've seen in WAR and Aion.

Thanks.

Smaller organized groups could take out larger groups in DAOC.

 

But I've never heard 8 vs 100. Hyperbole maybe?

 

Never heard of successful 8 vs 100 fights either but here are some nice 8 vs 16-40 Videos from youtube:

8 vs 40

Zerg vs Enna Bombs

I've been on the losing end of a 8 vs 24 fight, but that was back when TOA was fairly new and our oppoents had a huge advantage by having all their TOA skills (8 or so) while we were mostly ranks 2 and 3.

I might believe 8 vs 40 (there was a group of Hibs on our server, MLF run by a guy named "the General" and they were pretty legendary) out in open combat but remember, DAOC had severe crowd control mechanics back then, a single Sorcerer could hold you in place for up to a minute, (without counters), I haven't seen any game come remotely close to DAOC in this regard,

While smaller can beat larger (happens in EVE pretty often), there comes a tipping point, and no, I don't believe 5 will ever beat 50, especially if the 50 belong to a zerg guild like Goons.

Not sure how well Goons organize in other games, but in EVE they are most definitely a force to be reckoned with however they do not act like jerks to everyone, in fact I'm currently in a corp that's allied with them and we all fight together for a common goal, I suspect the same will be true in GW2.

Well let's hope with the Anet's mechanics in place, smaller guilds/groups will not cower away from the challenge of goon squad or ebonlore.