"The studio, which recently took Champions Online free-to-play, showed a €5.3 million ($7.5 million) loss for the 2010/11 fiscal year, up from a loss of €12.6 million ($17.9 million) the previous year."
Somewhat of a shocker to me that they were still losing this kind of money.
Pizza and stripper parties?
Pizza AND stippers? Wow. Btw, was that hand tossed?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Ya'll MUST be blind. If they lost only 7.5 million this year as opposed to 17.5 million this year, then they MADE money. 10 million more this year. Are they still negative? Yep, but at least not as much as last year.
Spurious logic is spurious... a loss is still a loss, they just lost less money this year than they did last year.
Also, it's generally standard business practice to not steal profits from one project to fund another project if it's to the detriment of the original project. Now whether of not Cryptic (Atari) have been doing this to fund Neverwinter, who knows, but if they are then they deserve to fail because they are breaking a pretty standard good business practices tenet. What I am saying is that if CO and/or STO aren't as good as they should/could be to be as profitable as they should/could be (which I believe they aren't, which bears out since they posted another loss this year) then you should spend it's profits on making that product better rather than use them for another project.
------------------------- "Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
That didn't take long, maybe someone else will get their hands on the Neverwinter Nights IP. Although it does say development continues as is, at least right now. One can hope though right?
If Atari cut them loose they will either licence them the rights to the Faerun D&D setting which as I understand it Atari hold outright or transfer that title to one of their other studios. If you read between the lines originally Atari wanted splash damage to make a new D&D MMORPG but Atari licenced sole rights to a D&D MMORPG to Turbine (Although Atari are claiming D&D Online is a failed porduct and want it shut down so they can get the licence back) and the whole thing went to court early last year as I recall.
Anyways as it stands the court case is ongoing and so they put Cryptic to work on the online multiplayer title under the neverwinter banner probably as a litmus test for a future D&D MMO.
Cant say I blame Atari really, I can not see where Cryptic have been spending all their funding. Champions was uninspired and boring & STO had fail written all over it based on design plan alone. So I can see why as a publisher you wouldn't trust them with a third MMO using what is probably Atari's most valuable licenced IP (COD being their most valuable but they own that IP) in the D&D licence.
I actually wonder at this point if anyone will even buy the studio ? its more likely its game properties will be sold off cheap to say Gamersfirst or one of those other companies who specialise in F2P games and the company effectively liquidated if they cannot afford to buy out their debts to Atari and return to being independant.
Ultimately Atari become yet more dependant on the COD franchise as a cash cow, with 3 planned COD titles this year maybe they can squeeze out a fourth for their suckers *ahem* I mean loyal fans. (I own 2 COD games but I dont buy every one and I refuse to buy shitty DLC map packs) Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket....
I shouldn't, but I love saying I told you so to CS about their lack of common/business sense and where it got them. I couldn't be more glad that CS will not be getting the job to do NWN.
"further expansion into casual online and mobile games"
Still shaking my head on this one.. This is where companies are going to start looking for their gold mines.. We R DOOMED...
Yes, looking for profit from mobile where piracy is rampant and DRM basically nonexistant, and where you are competing with other games ranging from $1 to $5......... yes your development costs are down but so is your turnover massively and generally when turnover goes down so does profit. Not to mention the headaches of having to accomodate so much different phone hardware, Phone OS's and distribution platforms.
Remember when consoles came out and developers said "its hard to develop for PC because there is so much piracy and so many different hardware configurations" ? Ironic really that they are about to take on board a new platform with smaller profit margins but even bigger headaches than what they claim drove them away from PC as a platform (not to mention PC was generally limited to one OS only) yes there is a much bigger user base but I think if someone sits down with actual programmers as well as the number monkeys you will soon see this kind of shift is a setting up for a big fall.
They better hope like hell that all 3 COD titles this year sell like Black Ops or better. Personally I think at least one of those titles will run afoul of the BF3 launch and the last COS game released this year is likely to suffer from the negative effects of oversaturating the market.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"The studio, which recently took Champions Online free-to-play, showed a €5.3 million ($7.5 million) loss for the 2010/11 fiscal year, up from a loss of €12.6 million ($17.9 million) the previous year."
Somewhat of a shocker to me that they were still losing this kind of money.
Pizza and stripper parties?
Pizza AND stippers? Wow. Btw, was that hand tossed?
The pizza or the strippers?
I wager the "10 fold" or so revenue increase they claimed from CO F2P was total nonsense. You can manage through at least to level 20 without buying anything, and stuff like power customization, the only thing I'd want to buy, isn't for sale.
Compared to a F2P model like LotRO, where you got points in game, and could buy almost every feature the VIP players subscribe for, CO's F2P makes you not want to spend ANYTHING by locking you into a vastly inferior experience compared to the sub. No point in commiting any money to a game when your experience will always be vastly substandard.
I normally don't dance on other people's graves but I'll make an exception this time. With any luck they'll drop before they destroy another IP.
Speaking of which, if things end up getting even worse for them, maybe we could then see the Star Trek IP get freed up. I'm still flabbergasted with just how poor a job Cryptic did with their attempt with STO.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I normally don't dance on other people's graves but I'll make an exception this time. With any luck they'll drop before they destroy another IP.
I feel horrible for saying it, but QFMFT!
I hope the coders that worked hard every day land on their feet, but Cryptic needed to fail to tell the rest of the dev world that crapping out sub par MMOs every 18-24 months while charging full AAA sub rates and having an extensive cash shop on top of it was unacceptable.
Well, although I'm failry certain that NWN MMO being developed by Cryptic would have sucked just as much as STO and Champions Online I would have still liked to see if they could have performed a miracle.
They still are; from a IGN article:
As of March 31st, Atari is divesting its interest in the studio, working to sell it at some point in time. Atari has made it clear that it will continue to support both Star Trek Online and Champions Online, but doesn't see the studio as part of its long-term goal of "fewer but more profitable releases."
Gamasutra has also been informed that work will continue as normal on Cryptic's Neverwinter project.
"further expansion into casual online and mobile games"
Still shaking my head on this one.. This is where companies are going to start looking for their gold mines.. We R DOOMED...
Yes, looking for profit from mobile where piracy is rampant and DRM basically nonexistant, and where you are competing with other games ranging from $1 to $5......... yes your development costs are down but so is your turnover massively and generally when turnover goes down so does profit. Not to mention the headaches of having to accomodate so much different phone hardware, Phone OS's and distribution platforms.
Remember when consoles came out and developers said "its hard to develop for PC because there is so much piracy and so many different hardware configurations" ? Ironic really that they are about to take on board a new platform with smaller profit margins but even bigger headaches than what they claim drove them away from PC as a platform (not to mention PC was generally limited to one OS only) yes there is a much bigger user base but I think if someone sits down with actual programmers as well as the number monkeys you will soon see this kind of shift is a setting up for a big fall.
They better hope like hell that all 3 COD titles this year sell like Black Ops or better. Personally I think at least one of those titles will run afoul of the BF3 launch and the last COS game released this year is likely to suffer from the negative effects of oversaturating the market.
Thought I would let you know that COD is owned by Activision.
Atari's big games are:
The Witcher, D&D, Neverwinter, and Test Drive
--------------- Tested over a 115+ games since 1997.
Well, although I'm failry certain that NWN MMO being developed by Cryptic would have sucked just as much as STO and Champions Online I would have still liked to see if they could have performed a miracle.
...
Gamasutra has also been informed that work will continue as normal on Cryptic's Neverwinter project.
Well, although I'm failry certain that NWN MMO being developed by Cryptic would have sucked just as much as STO and Champions Online I would have still liked to see if they could have performed a miracle.
...
Gamasutra has also been informed that work will continue as normal on Cryptic's Neverwinter project.
(i) Focus on Atari owned franchises and key strategic licenses for fewer but more profitable releases
and further expansion into online, digital download, mobile game segments. This is supported by a
strict investment discipline addressing all appropriate platforms (online, console, mobile). At this stage, Atari’s
games will mainly be developed externally with selected third party game studios to contribute to a more
flexible and cost efficient organization. In addition, Atari will continue to support its key strategic licenses,
including Dungeons & Dragons, Ghostbusters & Rollercoaster Tycoon.
So if they dump Cryptic - will they continue to support the Cryptic development as a third party studio?
Whoa, rollercoaster tycoon. Do they have a new one coming?
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
Well, although I'm failry certain that NWN MMO being developed by Cryptic would have sucked just as much as STO and Champions Online I would have still liked to see if they could have performed a miracle.
...
Gamasutra has also been informed that work will continue as normal on Cryptic's Neverwinter project.
(i) Focus on Atari owned franchises and key strategic licenses for fewer but more profitable releases
and further expansion into online, digital download, mobile game segments. This is supported by a
strict investment discipline addressing all appropriate platforms (online, console, mobile). At this stage, Atari’s
games will mainly be developed externally with selected third party game studios to contribute to a more
flexible and cost efficient organization. In addition, Atari will continue to support its key strategic licenses,
including Dungeons & Dragons, Ghostbusters & Rollercoaster Tycoon.
So if they dump Cryptic - will they continue to support the Cryptic development as a third party studio?
I am not sure about that.
But I think they were referring to Dungeons & Dragons: Daggerdale. Its a XBLA, PSN, Windows game coming out on the 24th. I believe they will pull the game from Cryptic.
--------------- Tested over a 115+ games since 1997.
So if they dump Cryptic - will they continue to support the Cryptic development as a third party studio?
Well since Atari is selling Cryptic, IE As of March 31st, Atari is divesting its interest in the studio, working to sell it at some point in time. My guess would be their future relationship would be based on the licensing of the D&D product. Since Atari has the rights for all video games of the D&D products, and those rights are from Hasbro, Atari would still have to be part of the licensing for the Cryptic Neverwinter game. I do not know the details of the contract Cryptic and Atari made for Neverwinter, so I do not know if there is any funding being provided by Atari. But no matter what Atari will have to be involved because of the licensing of D&D.
But I think they were referring to Dungeons & Dragons: Daggerdale. Its a XBLA, PSN, Windows game coming out on the 24th. I believe they will pull the game from Cryptic.
Atari already told their investors that they are going to continue to support Cryptic in there development of the Neverwinter Nights game. So unless you are saying that Atari lied to their investor, which would get them in a whole heap of trouble, Cryptic is still making the Neverwinter game.
well Atari also owns Lord of the rings, so i would say goodbye to all mmos for Atari
Atari does not own anything that as to do with LOTRO, Warner Brothers owns Turbine now not Atari. Here is the press link for the WB and turbine merger. Also Middle Earth Enterprises owns and distributes the licensing for Lord of the rings, and Atari does not have a current license. So where did you get the idea that Atari owns Lord of the rings?
Very excited about the rollercoaster tycoon mention. I hope they are doing a new one!
"Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better." parrotpholk
I dunno about that though Atari has had the Neverwinter rights forever. They published NWN and NWN 2.
So what happened (or is happening) with the Hasbro case?
You know - the one where Hasbro was trying to recover the D&D licence?
Base on Atari Six-month interim report Hasbro vs Atari was still ongoing through early 2011 and probaly still is.
Indeed it is. I have heard a rumor on one blog that Atari settled with Turbine, in Turbine's $30,000,000.00 lawsuit against Atari. If true we'll probably never know any hard details, as such settlements are usually secret.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Comments
Pizza AND stippers? Wow. Btw, was that hand tossed?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Spurious logic is spurious... a loss is still a loss, they just lost less money this year than they did last year.
Also, it's generally standard business practice to not steal profits from one project to fund another project if it's to the detriment of the original project. Now whether of not Cryptic (Atari) have been doing this to fund Neverwinter, who knows, but if they are then they deserve to fail because they are breaking a pretty standard good business practices tenet. What I am saying is that if CO and/or STO aren't as good as they should/could be to be as profitable as they should/could be (which I believe they aren't, which bears out since they posted another loss this year) then you should spend it's profits on making that product better rather than use them for another project.
-------------------------
"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
Member Since March 2004
Yikes. You know you have bombed when even a total crap factory like Atari wants nothing more to do with you.
QUEUE PACKMAN DEATH SOUND
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
If Atari cut them loose they will either licence them the rights to the Faerun D&D setting which as I understand it Atari hold outright or transfer that title to one of their other studios. If you read between the lines originally Atari wanted splash damage to make a new D&D MMORPG but Atari licenced sole rights to a D&D MMORPG to Turbine (Although Atari are claiming D&D Online is a failed porduct and want it shut down so they can get the licence back) and the whole thing went to court early last year as I recall.
Anyways as it stands the court case is ongoing and so they put Cryptic to work on the online multiplayer title under the neverwinter banner probably as a litmus test for a future D&D MMO.
Cant say I blame Atari really, I can not see where Cryptic have been spending all their funding. Champions was uninspired and boring & STO had fail written all over it based on design plan alone. So I can see why as a publisher you wouldn't trust them with a third MMO using what is probably Atari's most valuable licenced IP (COD being their most valuable but they own that IP) in the D&D licence.
I actually wonder at this point if anyone will even buy the studio ? its more likely its game properties will be sold off cheap to say Gamersfirst or one of those other companies who specialise in F2P games and the company effectively liquidated if they cannot afford to buy out their debts to Atari and return to being independant.
Ultimately Atari become yet more dependant on the COD franchise as a cash cow, with 3 planned COD titles this year maybe they can squeeze out a fourth for their suckers *ahem* I mean loyal fans. (I own 2 COD games but I dont buy every one and I refuse to buy shitty DLC map packs) Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket....
I shouldn't, but I love saying I told you so to CS about their lack of common/business sense and where it got them. I couldn't be more glad that CS will not be getting the job to do NWN.
Yes, looking for profit from mobile where piracy is rampant and DRM basically nonexistant, and where you are competing with other games ranging from $1 to $5......... yes your development costs are down but so is your turnover massively and generally when turnover goes down so does profit. Not to mention the headaches of having to accomodate so much different phone hardware, Phone OS's and distribution platforms.
Remember when consoles came out and developers said "its hard to develop for PC because there is so much piracy and so many different hardware configurations" ? Ironic really that they are about to take on board a new platform with smaller profit margins but even bigger headaches than what they claim drove them away from PC as a platform (not to mention PC was generally limited to one OS only) yes there is a much bigger user base but I think if someone sits down with actual programmers as well as the number monkeys you will soon see this kind of shift is a setting up for a big fall.
They better hope like hell that all 3 COD titles this year sell like Black Ops or better. Personally I think at least one of those titles will run afoul of the BF3 launch and the last COS game released this year is likely to suffer from the negative effects of oversaturating the market.
no that those two games are great or anything but Atari sucks good.....
I normally don't dance on other people's graves but I'll make an exception this time. With any luck they'll drop before they destroy another IP.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The pizza or the strippers?
I wager the "10 fold" or so revenue increase they claimed from CO F2P was total nonsense. You can manage through at least to level 20 without buying anything, and stuff like power customization, the only thing I'd want to buy, isn't for sale.
Compared to a F2P model like LotRO, where you got points in game, and could buy almost every feature the VIP players subscribe for, CO's F2P makes you not want to spend ANYTHING by locking you into a vastly inferior experience compared to the sub. No point in commiting any money to a game when your experience will always be vastly substandard.
Speaking of which, if things end up getting even worse for them, maybe we could then see the Star Trek IP get freed up. I'm still flabbergasted with just how poor a job Cryptic did with their attempt with STO.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I feel horrible for saying it, but QFMFT!
I hope the coders that worked hard every day land on their feet, but Cryptic needed to fail to tell the rest of the dev world that crapping out sub par MMOs every 18-24 months while charging full AAA sub rates and having an extensive cash shop on top of it was unacceptable.
We all knew this was coming. Ever darn video from Cryptic said "C-Store" even before Star Trek.
This irritated me so bad.
So what happened (or is happening) with the Hasbro case?
You know - the one where Hasbro was trying to recover the D&D licence?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
They still are; from a IGN article:
As of March 31st, Atari is divesting its interest in the studio, working to sell it at some point in time. Atari has made it clear that it will continue to support both Star Trek Online and Champions Online, but doesn't see the studio as part of its long-term goal of "fewer but more profitable releases."
Gamasutra has also been informed that work will continue as normal on Cryptic's Neverwinter project.
http://pc.ign.com/articles/116/1168885p1.html
Thought I would let you know that COD is owned by Activision.
Atari's big games are:
The Witcher, D&D, Neverwinter, and Test Drive
---------------
Tested over a 115+ games since 1997.
Currently Playing:
Played(Retired): AOL NWN(91-95), UO, EQ1/2, DAoC, CoX, Lineage1/2, SWG(Pre CU/NGE), Planetside, Anarchy Online, FFXI, AC, Vanguard, D&D, AoC, DCUO, Rift, Eve, others
Hmmm... Atari says
ONGOING STRATEGY
...
(i) Focus on Atari owned franchises and key strategic licenses for fewer but more profitable releases
and further expansion into online, digital download, mobile game segments. This is supported by a
strict investment discipline addressing all appropriate platforms (online, console, mobile). At this stage, Atari’s
games will mainly be developed externally with selected third party game studios to contribute to a more
flexible and cost efficient organization. In addition, Atari will continue to support its key strategic licenses,
including Dungeons & Dragons, Ghostbusters & Rollercoaster Tycoon.
So if they dump Cryptic - will they continue to support the Cryptic development as a third party studio?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Whoa, rollercoaster tycoon. Do they have a new one coming?
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
well Atari also owns Lord of the rings, so i would say goodbye to all mmos for Atari
I am not sure about that.
But I think they were referring to Dungeons & Dragons: Daggerdale. Its a XBLA, PSN, Windows game coming out on the 24th. I believe they will pull the game from Cryptic.
---------------
Tested over a 115+ games since 1997.
Currently Playing:
Played(Retired): AOL NWN(91-95), UO, EQ1/2, DAoC, CoX, Lineage1/2, SWG(Pre CU/NGE), Planetside, Anarchy Online, FFXI, AC, Vanguard, D&D, AoC, DCUO, Rift, Eve, others
Well since Atari is selling Cryptic, IE As of March 31st, Atari is divesting its interest in the studio, working to sell it at some point in time. My guess would be their future relationship would be based on the licensing of the D&D product. Since Atari has the rights for all video games of the D&D products, and those rights are from Hasbro, Atari would still have to be part of the licensing for the Cryptic Neverwinter game. I do not know the details of the contract Cryptic and Atari made for Neverwinter, so I do not know if there is any funding being provided by Atari. But no matter what Atari will have to be involved because of the licensing of D&D.
Atari already told their investors that they are going to continue to support Cryptic in there development of the Neverwinter Nights game. So unless you are saying that Atari lied to their investor, which would get them in a whole heap of trouble, Cryptic is still making the Neverwinter game.
http://pc.ign.com/articles/116/1168885p1.html
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/34704/Atari_Drops_Champions_Online_Developer_Cryptic_Studios.php
Atari does not own anything that as to do with LOTRO, Warner Brothers owns Turbine now not Atari. Here is the press link for the WB and turbine merger. Also Middle Earth Enterprises owns and distributes the licensing for Lord of the rings, and Atari does not have a current license. So where did you get the idea that Atari owns Lord of the rings?
Here is all the current licensees that Middle Earth Enterprises currently provides: http://www.middleearth.com/current_licensees.html
Do you see Atari listed any where in there?
Very excited about the rollercoaster tycoon mention. I hope they are doing a new one!
"Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better." parrotpholk
Base on Atari Six-month interim report Hasbro vs Atari was still ongoing through early 2011 and probaly still is.
Indeed it is. I have heard a rumor on one blog that Atari settled with Turbine, in Turbine's $30,000,000.00 lawsuit against Atari. If true we'll probably never know any hard details, as such settlements are usually secret.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
No surprises here. Champions was doa imo,and though I would have loved sto, I knew from
all they planned for it and did in it's development phase, that it was never going to be the type
of Star Trek game that would satisfy me,so I passed on it. Maybe EA will come along and
pick up cryptic when it hits "the bargain bin" lol.