MMO Combat - Lacking Something?

Crazy00Eyes

Since I've started playing Rift I've noticed this same issue I have many of the other MMOs I've played in the past (like Warhammer).  It feels like the combats lacks fluidity, or that I'm not directly connected to my actions in the game.  I realize this sounds vague and I'm having trouble explaining exactly what I mean, but I did not experience this problem when I played WoW.  I figured since I haven't played WoW in many months that this feeling would go away, but it hasn't.  I'm a PvPer and I want to enjoy PvP, in fact it could be said that I stayed with WoW for years longer than I would have otherwise if it weren't for the arenas.   PvP in WoW feels vibrant, fast paced, easy to learn but difficult to master, like you are actually connected character on the screen and controlling him.

I can't really explain it better than that, if you have any idea what I'm talking about or think I'm just loony feel free to say so.  Maybe it has something to do with the cartoony graphics, or that WoW is just more polished than anything else, or that I've played it for so many years.  With Rift the combat just feels agrivating: I don't like the spell effects, there are times when I can't distinguish enemies attacking me from the environment (like during fire rifts), the Warfronts just aren't interesting, and everyone looks roughly the same.

Astoran

Well I think I know what you mean about Rift. To me the animations for some classes were simply stiff. Also, a lot of the feeling of the combat being not fluid comes from the nature of traditional mmo combat which is what Rift uses (although WoW does too so I guess we differ in this regard). I am definately looking forward to some of the newer games coming out soon such as GW2 and Tera because of the action oriented combat. Hopefully this kind of combat will feel more fluid and make pvp really fun.

Metanol

I believe I've wrote this in another section already, but lets not let that slow us down!

Anyway! Talk of mmorpg combat... Well, my (and my friends) opinions on the topic are quite clear.

First of all: Everyone in my circle of friends have played mmorpgs since.. well, a looong time ago, and with time we've all grown tired to regular, "boring" mmorpgs. It is not exactly amusing or immersive for any of us to watch a badly animated fight and hit 1, 3, 4, 5, (Oh god! I blocked, I get to hit 6!) 1, 3, 4, 5... And then talk of pvp. The strafing around a caster is just... well, I believe it is crap, but it has grown to be a part of the genre with the introduction of directional targeting etc. Thank god guild wars 1 got rid of it, it was a rather nice experience to wander through, even with it's many flaws.

Sorry, got a bit distracted there, but back to topic! What -we- want is more realism and much more mature combat. Of course we also want rpg elements... we want all the skills, attributes etc. to play in the background, but they are not meant to be the main focus. What should matter most in our opinion (in a melee duel) is player skill, but when it comes to magic it should be much more about knowing what to use and when. We want directional attacks, we want different combat styles, we want manual parrying/blocking/hopefully dodging, which could also be done passive. We want manual chambering, ripostes and we want realism in sense of ripping people down with two to four attacks, not a minute of smack, smack, smack, blood, blood, blood, smack. This all of course stands against what modern mmorpgs have become.

Of course mages and such are meant to be more powerful than footmen, but when a footman gets close to the mage in question and smacks him once, he's dead. Archery should be lethal as well, but require skill. Shields should be breakable in combat, weapons should wear in use (no, not instant wearing, but realism). Such a system would of course require a different or a faster way of respawning/getting into the fight.

Anyway, for now... we have yet to try Mortal Online, but we are afraid it will let us down, and so far we've found ourselves rather happy with Mount&Blade Warband (Crpg mod. In which you develop your character just as you would in an rpg. And you only fight against players, only online.)

 

Oh... And one more thing. Overflashy spell effects, epic combat moves, swords suddenly glowing when you do an attack skill etc. should all be toned down or completely removed! Especially the matter concerning swords/melee weapons in general. I can't understand who thinks it's "cool" or "epic" when a warrior attacks and suddenly his sword glows with red light without any explanation. And why do warriors even need all these special skills? Well, I agree, they should have things like different styles, ripostes, attacks and defensive tactics but.. I am going to cry if I have to play a magical warrior one more time and hit 1, power attack - 2, defensive strike - 3, wild slash - 4, super-awesome-finisher-which-deals-300%-damage-when-done-after-these-three.

Also... The class system in most mmorpgs feels ridiculous and rather "forced". If need be, I prefer a system similar to d&d where you have more than a dozen ways to build your character. Who says a rogue must dual-wield (or be an archer) and do sneak attacks? I'd rather make my "rogue" an diplomat, trained to fight with a quarterstaff, and replace sneak attacks from shadows with flanking in battle.

-We- are also against the ridiculous restrictments what come with modern mmorpg classes. Reminds me most of Heroquest, an old boardgame where each player takes one of four ready characters and one player lays down the adventure for the rest, from ready quests of course. But to the point! In the game, you had equipment which you got from chests etc... well, guess what? Over half of those cards said "Wizard cannot use ****". Looted a spear? No-no, not touching that, might strain a wrist! Mail shirt? No! Axe? Too heavy! Bracers? Ohhhh.... look, they're like... made of leather.. I don't know. I guess I can try them on.

What happened to freedom of forging your own character? When did all archers become rangers or hunters (Except in WAR, where you have that elven one)? Who forgot to suggest spellswords / warmages to devs (Exceptions: AoC, guildwars etc.)? Why do staves suddenly shoot magical balls out of them, what happened to using them in melee?

I believe we can end here, the three games what have pleased me most with fantasy settings are: Severance: Blade of Darkness, Dark Messiah of might & magic and Mount&Blade series (First one and Warband)

My apologies for any typos which might appear above, it is way too late and I am way too tired to do a nice spellcheck now. Good night people!

 

PS. I also understand the need and the marketing value of this modern mmorpg system. It is familiar, easy, works well, and pleases a lot of people. But what about alternatives? No, age of conan's melee system is nowhere near enough, but a good start and interesting for an hour, then it starts to feel more like dance dance revolution on keyboard.

Cartoon graphics down, photorealism in. Candy world out, dark, believable and mature settings in.

Axehilt

Overall combat flow and design is a significant part of why no MMORPG has beat WOW in fun (nevermind subs...just flat-out fun.)

Rift is alright, but definitely doesn't reach WOW's flow or control (although the design is close...it's certainly a more interesting batch of classes, by far, than WOW had at release.)

Vigiliance

What mmo combat is lacking, is a constrast. NON combat options/progression... If you don't do anything but combat over and over again, no matter how good it is, its going to get stale...

bobfish

Its missing a lot, it is one system that hasn't evolved since D&D was conceived over 25 years ago.

 

Roll on TERA.

Quadnads

Originally posted by Metanol

Severance: Blade of Darkness

 

Well said Metanol, my thoughts exactly. That's what I like about these forums, you come across some many people who think alike when you feel a lone madman hankering for a gaming style that no one else likes.

 

I've been banging on about how good the combat was in Severance for years but no one seemed to remember it. Proper active blocking and timed strikes. A real poised feeling of danger in combat and a nice visceral disembowelling mechanic that never got boring. Excellent archery mechanic where arrow track curved realistically with distance. Breakable shields. Plus not a predictable numberkey, glowing weapon, combo action buttton set in sight! 

 

I think one reason online games don't have anything as fluid and tense as this is because of client side hit detection. Because of the time it takes to communicate between player 1 computer, the central server, player 2 computer and back, position and strike distance is approximate and vague making it hard for combat to feel that toe-to-toe. They manage to make this fairly seamless in WOW but in laggier times it can be an obvious hinderance when you’re hitting people with a sword and a more than sword distance…or not hitting anyone at all when you’re within slapping distance.