Good article. I don't want to repeat the same stuff, so I am adding another perspective.
They used to be a great company and they used to have good games. Then inexplicably bad creative direction crept into their games (I am leaving NGE out, really!). It went downhill already when SWG introduced nothing else than Barbie doll house decoration items and the team did anything in their power to avoid any references to actual Star Wars (you only saw these on promo material, while they dedicated time to implement such things as pink mandalorian armors. Really.)
SOE would repeat their formula of fail on DCUO as well, when they thought that centering their updates on holydays would be a good idea. Who thought that german expressionism Batman would be successful, as with Tim Burton's take. And who thought that you can make an animated series using art deco and film noir designs? Well, people who obviously know their stuff (Batman originally being a pulp detective comic).
I know that it's just one aspect, but wrecking entire franchises like that is the most efficient way to destroy both reputation and image of the company. SOE really is the Joel Schumacher of the online game world.
I feel that SOE will be fine. Sure they need to makes some changes, but I think they will continue to be around and I am glad. I have a lot of good memories of EQ and EQ 2. Personally I feel that EQ Next will be huge. The only way that I could see them being in trouble is if EQ Next bombs, but I do not see that happening.
As far as the security breach goes, it could have happened to anyone. The hackers just happened to pick the PSN. Thats why if you are worried about your credit card information, you do not use your main account. If you use a Visa debit tied to your bank account, you are just asking for trouble. Always use a separate account just for games. Or use game time cards or prepaid credit.
Despite a lot of folks wanting soe to roll over and die. Well all I can say is keep wishing. We still here. While we were down for a couple of weeks, it did not kill us. I still see plenty of folks playing eq2, now I cant speak for the other games.
So keep wishing soe to die, its not going to happen. I would think cryptic would sooner sale out before soe dies.
If you dont agree with how a company treats you as a customer, then you can do a couple of things...provide them with feedback and hope they change, or stop giving them money. Since the Smedster made it clear that the only thing SOE listens to is "people voting with their feet".
I will never, ever play another SOE game or buy another SOE product. The security breach and their handling of it, just firther justified my earlier decision.
If a company, any company provides poor service and second rate products and is generally incompetent from the top down market forces will do the rest.
The recent hacking thing is just another failure in a whole long line of failures by SOE and even if this isn't what brings them down if they don't change, fast they will just mess something else up and then something else after that and its just a matter of time before they cant sustain it any longer, its just to bad for the competent staff they do have if they end up losing their jobs.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
I know I should make a long more useful reply. But I am so disappointed with PSN right now and Sony. C'mon, letting a server fall down, what is with that. Thats just dumb. Letting hacks in. They should be on that with their team of maintnence and security.
All I am saying is, their rep is taking a hit or two.
My history with SOE started with SWG, after playing for 2 years, the 'combat upgrade' caused my favorite game to crash and burn. I hung in with SOE for EQ2 and played that for about a year and a half... happily bought Vanguard and it was like eating a cake that was runny in the middle... SOE was churning out crap.
I cut SOE out of my life for several years while nodding at Blizzard and their protocol for running a business that felt professional and that seemed to make wise choices for their community of players.
I recently got my daughter a Free REalms account and was dismayed at the Station.com 'cash store'... I felt this type of game model made SOE feel even seedier. Everytime they tried to suck another station cash token from my white knuckles I was reminded of the two bit, back alley hooker with the smeared lipstick and the ripped fishnets... SOE dropped to a new level in my book, one with very little CLASS. For a company that totes a name like SONY, which used to mean quality, they have become a sad, sad panda.
I think like the FORD of the car manufacturers, they really need to cutback and take a hard look at their business model and redesign themselves if they want to survive in the gaming market. One too many Explorer tire blow outs and people start to veer away from your shoddy products. Classic case of too big, too much, too fast and bad management choices.
No the breach hasnt changed my mind about $oe, but then again it would be hard for me to have a lower opinion of them. As long as they continue to operate as they have since eq1 with the same inept fools mismanaging their games,expansions,and releases it wont be a question of "if" they will fail but "when".
thank you jon for finally saying how SOE's situation really is.
some of us have been predicting and alerting people of its downfall for years all the while reviews and articles here and elsewhere kept throwing flowers at this company.
the question on my mind is this: if the company had had a clean slate before this debacle would this hack affect the company in the long term as much as it will probably do?
i think the best way to find this out is to compare the recovery of the PSN to the SOE devision; but i don't think any real numbers will be released by Sony to make such a study.
They had the chance to make SWG and VG into great mmo's, all they had to do was listen to the paying customer/ the damn player base! and give them what they wanted.
SOE made their bed and now it's time they lay in it.
I pray they can pull something magical out their hat with EQ3....
Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE Waiting on: Lost Ark Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?
Its not the security breach that made me step away from SOE, but the way they treat MMO's in their portfolio. Games like Vanguard and SWG dont get the dev attention they deserve. I would like to invest time in those because I really like them, but I quit them some time ago because they were barely moving forward. Because of the skeleton dev crew it takes so ridiculously long for anything substantial to be added or fixed in those games. I just cant take it serious anymore.
Same with DCU online. The release is just another half hearted attempt. Its just not complete and ready for release. Its too much of the same as with their other MMO's. Lot of plans, but realising it either takes way too long or wont happen at all. This made me not even interested in this title.
I feel bad for current SWG devteam because they did wonders with the few resources they have available to them. And they actually seem to take into account of what players ask for. But if you look at the timetable, its just not enough for a so called AAA MMO. Too slow and too late.
Its like they try to do a little bit of everything instead of focussing on less things and do their best with those.
I agree on that, the current SWG dev team...all 2 of them, are the best the game has seen in years and years. Of course you can't underestimate the benefit getting rid of someone like blixtev. If you dislike jedi, and arent interested in making them a fun, needed, viable class, then do NOT work on a star wars game...
The bottom line with SOE is that they are one of the worst run businesses I have ever seen. They have NO understanding of the fundamental nature of their product and the importance of their customers. MMO shops MUST realize they are in long term relationships with their customers and must always seek win-win approaches to development and problems.
You never, ever alienate your customers, en masse, and you never teach them that the time and effort they sink into your games is worthless because you can and WILL wipe it out, overnight, with no recourse or consideration. That is SOEs greatest sin.
GIving me 45 days worth of play on games I have no real interest in anymore is... okay, but it's not going to win over any favors. SOE needs show they care about games beofre I am willing to pay for new ones and expect any sort of support for my trouble and money.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
SOE has been making substandard games for years. They continue to over-hype and push out their garbage, with a new helping on the way 3 months after the current inevitablely fails. I hope the hack event finally pushes them the rest of the way off the cliff of failure. They need to give up their strangle hold on all of these well known IPs and let more talented teams give them the games they deserve. F**K you SOE.
I feel that SOE will be fine. Sure they need to makes some changes, but I think they will continue to be around and I am glad. I have a lot of good memories of EQ and EQ 2. Personally I feel that EQ Next will be huge. The only way that I could see them being in trouble is if EQ Next bombs, but I do not see that happening.
As far as the security breach goes, it could have happened to anyone. The hackers just happened to pick the PSN. Thats why if you are worried about your credit card information, you do not use your main account. If you use a Visa debit tied to your bank account, you are just asking for trouble. Always use a separate account just for games. Or use game time cards or prepaid credit.
They hackers didn't just happen to choose SOE. They chose Sony and later SOE very much on purpose. Sony originally made it available to put thir party OS on the PS3, namely, Linux. They pulled the ability to do this and immediately started banning and pulling ppl up on charges. THAT is why they got hacked. they brought it all on themselves. They deserve it.
Starting to get a feeling Sony itself loves dragging anything down around with it. Including SOE, and yes I'm also referring to in the past with NGE and every other stupid choice SOE has made. Getting an feeling that the gross incompetence wasn't fully SOE's fault but a mixture of Sony's itself, the parent company. Since I'm sure everyones seen how Sony went about with the data breach on their PS3. Since they brought down PSN themselves due to a faulty firmware update.
Then again their is no proof of that so just call it a hunch of mine.
Problem with SOE is the executive suite. They have not had in inkling in a long time. They had a great game in SWG and instead of fixing it, they destroyed it. EQ II was never a good sequel to EQ. Nothing subsequent has been more than mediocre.
Sony's only recourse, far as I can see, is to bring in some new blood at the top that has some vision. They could still rise from the ashes with some new leadership.
If sony would make it legal to modify or Jailbreak PS3, I might buy one later when all the hacking stops.
If sony develop new MMORPG all 2011 graphics, epic story, no station cash store other than selling goods between players, and an actual system that people like without an items shop I believe that sony could make it, but with the condition sony is in right now, based on all their recent reputation, account compromise on many customers, and sony actually almost cost me a lot of money with another game due to leaked information although that security hole was closed really fast after I got the game company outside sony to change all information on my account.
Sony should have never have got involved with the Hotz hack, they should have simply let it be, as no one did anything wrong, not violated peoples privacy to begin with, and kept their security up to date sony could have avoid all this but since they wanted to play so did the hackers, and the hackers won.
45 Days of free game time is just useless to me and if I actually wanted I would rather sue sony for a few thousand than get 45 Days free lol I mean 45 days free of EQ 2 which is already free to play, and games that go back to development before 2009, I am sorry but these games are just too old, and while Sony maybe trying to say sorry to all its customers it is just not good enough for me to return for any reason even with free time.
SOE is a popular target and for good reason. From a marketing perspective they really have to have a Dominos Pizza moment when they admit their games suck and they have made poor decisions in the past but promise to make changes. I have never have done marketing work for a gaming company but my comerical would be a video camera following Smed being escorted out of the building by security.
We honestly only represent a small sliver of their profit margins for SOE but we set the tone for sucess or failure. No one will buy a game today without doing research online about the game and all SOE products will be treated with extra scrutiny. The SWG pre-cu vets will not forget and not be silenced not now, and not 20 years from now. SWG is a dying game they should give away the classic version and let people have their own servers. New games need to have open worlds and freedom of choice its where everything is moving twards anyway. I say if they don't have their Dominos moment externally and internally they might as well shut off the lights now.
You said about DCUO something I completely agree with!!! You said, "While I personally enjoyed the game while I played it, there were just too many bugs and exploits, not enough content, and too much time and pushed deadlines with any updates in content." This is completely accurate state of the game.
Now, look at the pros and cons of the official review by MMORPG (copied below for you). Under Cons, there is no mention about the complete lack of content (the content is actually listed as one of the Pros of the game), and the bugs are described as little and annoying. One con that was mentioned that is accurate is the terrible chat interface.
Just thought I'd point it out since your comments are spot on about the game, and the MMORPG.com official review was at best misleading about the game. Perhaps it is time for someone at MMORPG to do a fast re-review of the game?
I feel that SOE will be fine. Sure they need to makes some changes, but I think they will continue to be around and I am glad. I have a lot of good memories of EQ and EQ 2. Personally I feel that EQ Next will be huge. The only way that I could see them being in trouble is if EQ Next bombs, but I do not see that happening.
As far as the security breach goes, it could have happened to anyone. The hackers just happened to pick the PSN. Thats why if you are worried about your credit card information, you do not use your main account. If you use a Visa debit tied to your bank account, you are just asking for trouble. Always use a separate account just for games. Or use game time cards or prepaid credit.
They hackers didn't just happen to choose SOE. They chose Sony and later SOE very much on purpose. Sony originally made it available to put thir party OS on the PS3, namely, Linux. They pulled the ability to do this and immediately started banning and pulling ppl up on charges. THAT is why they got hacked. they brought it all on themselves. They deserve it.
{mod edit} No soe did not deserve it and neither did those of us who play there games.
People keep saying Sony was targetted for special reasons, but the truth is their network security was terrible. It was only a matter of time before someone exploited it. Unpatched servers, known vulnerabilities, missing or improperly configured firewalls, lack of intrusion detection system, etc.
Even after all the time spent "fixing" the network it has been hacked two more times and had a seriously ameutur level security mistake go live.
This isn't a case of "it could happen to anyone", because most networks are not this poorly secured. Odds are this isn't over with either, because the issues span the entire Sony network.
Comments
Good article. I don't want to repeat the same stuff, so I am adding another perspective.
They used to be a great company and they used to have good games. Then inexplicably bad creative direction crept into their games (I am leaving NGE out, really!). It went downhill already when SWG introduced nothing else than Barbie doll house decoration items and the team did anything in their power to avoid any references to actual Star Wars (you only saw these on promo material, while they dedicated time to implement such things as pink mandalorian armors. Really.)
SOE would repeat their formula of fail on DCUO as well, when they thought that centering their updates on holydays would be a good idea. Who thought that german expressionism Batman would be successful, as with Tim Burton's take. And who thought that you can make an animated series using art deco and film noir designs? Well, people who obviously know their stuff (Batman originally being a pulp detective comic).
I know that it's just one aspect, but wrecking entire franchises like that is the most efficient way to destroy both reputation and image of the company. SOE really is the Joel Schumacher of the online game world.
I feel that SOE will be fine. Sure they need to makes some changes, but I think they will continue to be around and I am glad. I have a lot of good memories of EQ and EQ 2. Personally I feel that EQ Next will be huge. The only way that I could see them being in trouble is if EQ Next bombs, but I do not see that happening.
As far as the security breach goes, it could have happened to anyone. The hackers just happened to pick the PSN. Thats why if you are worried about your credit card information, you do not use your main account. If you use a Visa debit tied to your bank account, you are just asking for trouble. Always use a separate account just for games. Or use game time cards or prepaid credit.
The question is not whether CAN they make it, but SHOULD they be able to make it.
The answer to that is ...
NO.
Despite a lot of folks wanting soe to roll over and die. Well all I can say is keep wishing. We still here. While we were down for a couple of weeks, it did not kill us. I still see plenty of folks playing eq2, now I cant speak for the other games.
So keep wishing soe to die, its not going to happen. I would think cryptic would sooner sale out before soe dies.
If you dont agree with how a company treats you as a customer, then you can do a couple of things...provide them with feedback and hope they change, or stop giving them money. Since the Smedster made it clear that the only thing SOE listens to is "people voting with their feet".
I will never, ever play another SOE game or buy another SOE product. The security breach and their handling of it, just firther justified my earlier decision.
If a company, any company provides poor service and second rate products and is generally incompetent from the top down market forces will do the rest.
The recent hacking thing is just another failure in a whole long line of failures by SOE and even if this isn't what brings them down if they don't change, fast they will just mess something else up and then something else after that and its just a matter of time before they cant sustain it any longer, its just to bad for the competent staff they do have if they end up losing their jobs.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
I know I should make a long more useful reply. But I am so disappointed with PSN right now and Sony. C'mon, letting a server fall down, what is with that. Thats just dumb. Letting hacks in. They should be on that with their team of maintnence and security.
All I am saying is, their rep is taking a hit or two.
My history with SOE started with SWG, after playing for 2 years, the 'combat upgrade' caused my favorite game to crash and burn. I hung in with SOE for EQ2 and played that for about a year and a half... happily bought Vanguard and it was like eating a cake that was runny in the middle... SOE was churning out crap.
I cut SOE out of my life for several years while nodding at Blizzard and their protocol for running a business that felt professional and that seemed to make wise choices for their community of players.
I recently got my daughter a Free REalms account and was dismayed at the Station.com 'cash store'... I felt this type of game model made SOE feel even seedier. Everytime they tried to suck another station cash token from my white knuckles I was reminded of the two bit, back alley hooker with the smeared lipstick and the ripped fishnets... SOE dropped to a new level in my book, one with very little CLASS. For a company that totes a name like SONY, which used to mean quality, they have become a sad, sad panda.
I think like the FORD of the car manufacturers, they really need to cutback and take a hard look at their business model and redesign themselves if they want to survive in the gaming market. One too many Explorer tire blow outs and people start to veer away from your shoddy products. Classic case of too big, too much, too fast and bad management choices.
No bitchers.
No the breach hasnt changed my mind about $oe, but then again it would be hard for me to have a lower opinion of them. As long as they continue to operate as they have since eq1 with the same inept fools mismanaging their games,expansions,and releases it wont be a question of "if" they will fail but "when".
thank you jon for finally saying how SOE's situation really is.
some of us have been predicting and alerting people of its downfall for years all the while reviews and articles here and elsewhere kept throwing flowers at this company.
the question on my mind is this: if the company had had a clean slate before this debacle would this hack affect the company in the long term as much as it will probably do?
i think the best way to find this out is to compare the recovery of the PSN to the SOE devision; but i don't think any real numbers will be released by Sony to make such a study.
Start the SOE revamp with a computer game that lets gamers throw stones at Smedley.
Then fire him.
No bitchers.
SOE missed the boat.
They had the chance to make SWG and VG into great mmo's, all they had to do was listen to the paying customer/ the damn player base! and give them what they wanted.
SOE made their bed and now it's time they lay in it.
I pray they can pull something magical out their hat with EQ3....
Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD
Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE
Waiting on: Lost Ark
Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?
Its not the security breach that made me step away from SOE, but the way they treat MMO's in their portfolio. Games like Vanguard and SWG dont get the dev attention they deserve. I would like to invest time in those because I really like them, but I quit them some time ago because they were barely moving forward. Because of the skeleton dev crew it takes so ridiculously long for anything substantial to be added or fixed in those games. I just cant take it serious anymore.
Same with DCU online. The release is just another half hearted attempt. Its just not complete and ready for release. Its too much of the same as with their other MMO's. Lot of plans, but realising it either takes way too long or wont happen at all. This made me not even interested in this title.
I feel bad for current SWG devteam because they did wonders with the few resources they have available to them. And they actually seem to take into account of what players ask for. But if you look at the timetable, its just not enough for a so called AAA MMO. Too slow and too late.
Its like they try to do a little bit of everything instead of focussing on less things and do their best with those.
I agree on that, the current SWG dev team...all 2 of them, are the best the game has seen in years and years. Of course you can't underestimate the benefit getting rid of someone like blixtev. If you dislike jedi, and arent interested in making them a fun, needed, viable class, then do NOT work on a star wars game...
The bottom line with SOE is that they are one of the worst run businesses I have ever seen. They have NO understanding of the fundamental nature of their product and the importance of their customers. MMO shops MUST realize they are in long term relationships with their customers and must always seek win-win approaches to development and problems.
You never, ever alienate your customers, en masse, and you never teach them that the time and effort they sink into your games is worthless because you can and WILL wipe it out, overnight, with no recourse or consideration. That is SOEs greatest sin.
GIving me 45 days worth of play on games I have no real interest in anymore is... okay, but it's not going to win over any favors. SOE needs show they care about games beofre I am willing to pay for new ones and expect any sort of support for my trouble and money.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
SOE has been making substandard games for years. They continue to over-hype and push out their garbage, with a new helping on the way 3 months after the current inevitablely fails. I hope the hack event finally pushes them the rest of the way off the cliff of failure. They need to give up their strangle hold on all of these well known IPs and let more talented teams give them the games they deserve. F**K you SOE.
They hackers didn't just happen to choose SOE. They chose Sony and later SOE very much on purpose. Sony originally made it available to put thir party OS on the PS3, namely, Linux. They pulled the ability to do this and immediately started banning and pulling ppl up on charges. THAT is why they got hacked. they brought it all on themselves. They deserve it.
Starting to get a feeling Sony itself loves dragging anything down around with it. Including SOE, and yes I'm also referring to in the past with NGE and every other stupid choice SOE has made. Getting an feeling that the gross incompetence wasn't fully SOE's fault but a mixture of Sony's itself, the parent company. Since I'm sure everyones seen how Sony went about with the data breach on their PS3. Since they brought down PSN themselves due to a faulty firmware update.
Then again their is no proof of that so just call it a hunch of mine.
Sausce
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
The world is going to watch next month's E3. If SOE can't get their act together by then, what will Sony's booth be like?
What about their presentation? The NGP?
So many questions and every journalist will be asking 'what happened'.
Worst timing I think. Sony finally had momentum against Xbox, NGP/Xperia was launching etc.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Problem with SOE is the executive suite. They have not had in inkling in a long time. They had a great game in SWG and instead of fixing it, they destroyed it. EQ II was never a good sequel to EQ. Nothing subsequent has been more than mediocre.
Sony's only recourse, far as I can see, is to bring in some new blood at the top that has some vision. They could still rise from the ashes with some new leadership.
If sony would make it legal to modify or Jailbreak PS3, I might buy one later when all the hacking stops.
If sony develop new MMORPG all 2011 graphics, epic story, no station cash store other than selling goods between players, and an actual system that people like without an items shop I believe that sony could make it, but with the condition sony is in right now, based on all their recent reputation, account compromise on many customers, and sony actually almost cost me a lot of money with another game due to leaked information although that security hole was closed really fast after I got the game company outside sony to change all information on my account.
Sony should have never have got involved with the Hotz hack, they should have simply let it be, as no one did anything wrong, not violated peoples privacy to begin with, and kept their security up to date sony could have avoid all this but since they wanted to play so did the hackers, and the hackers won.
45 Days of free game time is just useless to me and if I actually wanted I would rather sue sony for a few thousand than get 45 Days free lol I mean 45 days free of EQ 2 which is already free to play, and games that go back to development before 2009, I am sorry but these games are just too old, and while Sony maybe trying to say sorry to all its customers it is just not good enough for me to return for any reason even with free time.
SOE is a popular target and for good reason. From a marketing perspective they really have to have a Dominos Pizza moment when they admit their games suck and they have made poor decisions in the past but promise to make changes. I have never have done marketing work for a gaming company but my comerical would be a video camera following Smed being escorted out of the building by security.
We honestly only represent a small sliver of their profit margins for SOE but we set the tone for sucess or failure. No one will buy a game today without doing research online about the game and all SOE products will be treated with extra scrutiny. The SWG pre-cu vets will not forget and not be silenced not now, and not 20 years from now. SWG is a dying game they should give away the classic version and let people have their own servers. New games need to have open worlds and freedom of choice its where everything is moving twards anyway. I say if they don't have their Dominos moment externally and internally they might as well shut off the lights now.
Aquitis
Veteran Gamer
Hey Jon:
You said about DCUO something I completely agree with!!! You said, "While I personally enjoyed the game while I played it, there were just too many bugs and exploits, not enough content, and too much time and pushed deadlines with any updates in content." This is completely accurate state of the game.
Now, look at the pros and cons of the official review by MMORPG (copied below for you). Under Cons, there is no mention about the complete lack of content (the content is actually listed as one of the Pros of the game), and the bugs are described as little and annoying. One con that was mentioned that is accurate is the terrible chat interface.
Just thought I'd point it out since your comments are spot on about the game, and the MMORPG.com official review was at best misleading about the game. Perhaps it is time for someone at MMORPG to do a fast re-review of the game?
Pros
Deep character customization
Excellent storylines & content
Exceptional physics-based combat
Feats as alternate advancement
Superb presentation of the DC Universe
Cons
Lack of information on powers & skills
Many annoying little bugs
Stunted Social & League UI
Terrible chat interface
{mod edit} No soe did not deserve it and neither did those of us who play there games.
People keep saying Sony was targetted for special reasons, but the truth is their network security was terrible. It was only a matter of time before someone exploited it. Unpatched servers, known vulnerabilities, missing or improperly configured firewalls, lack of intrusion detection system, etc.
Even after all the time spent "fixing" the network it has been hacked two more times and had a seriously ameutur level security mistake go live.
LINK
LINK
LINK
This isn't a case of "it could happen to anyone", because most networks are not this poorly secured. Odds are this isn't over with either, because the issues span the entire Sony network.