The "perfect" MMO is different for every single person.
Besides, we already know what happens when developers listen to the broad playerbase, you get WoW.
I agree, devs need to use their own ideas and creative a world/game that they are proud of.
And we've seen the gems that devs have released with just their own ideas.
Problem is most the the gaming population (consumers and developers) don't have a clue. Mix in the cost to create these monsters. The extreme polar opposites between most of the consumer population pvp vs pve, hardcore vs casual, skill vs class/level, player economy vs drop economy, etc. mix all that together and you have a perfect storm.
Plus you can break down each verses into multiple verses for example hardcore vs casual. Most people call WoW casual friendly. Where I think it fits more into ADHD friendly. People call old UO hardcore but I used to log on solo or group for 10 minutes to hours. And regardless of what I did or how I did it I was moving forward.
So if a developer can design a way to create a game with dozens of different server rule sets without having to reprogram the core game for each different rule we may see a perfect mmo. There will still be a portion of the mmo population that still bitches though. You will never make everyone happy.
I'm 99% certain developers read forums like these. But it isn't because they are looking for advice really.
MMORPGs are VERY expensive to make. Anyone with any experience on a design team can tell you a huge chunk of time gets spent cutting ideas. In order to increase the focus of quality on the features they feel matter.
A GREAT example is Square Enix and the Jump mechanic, and Guild Wars with a swim feature.
Both Arena and SE read these forums regularly, and both of these features are insanely popular for their rather minimal impact on these games.
The #1 reason they were cut in the first place is because they are a) Not necessary and b) have more of an impact behind the scenes than they do in front of them.
Adding the jump ability to FFXI means artists must spend time creating animations for each race, armor sets have to be tested, as well as reprogramming physics for various zones. At the time of FFXI's conception they were aiming for running the PS2, eliminating anything that was "uncessary" and didn't contribute to the gameplay value was cut. Same for Guild Wars.
Even such a modern and powerful game such as the upcomming game Guild Wars 2, they've already made certain swimming will not be in game. Why? Because the amount of time that simple feature would demand would retract them from their main features. 100hrs creating swimming animations, ai, physics, and zone design is 100hrs less spent making the Dynamic Questing system better, zones prettier, and classes more balanced.
I'm not saying there aren't good ideas floating around the forums. But the community as a whole has a proven track record of not knowing a clue about what their talking about.
I don't really want any company going to any forum for "great ideas". I also don't want any large company to be more "hands on" with their developers. If you want something creative made.. you need to hire creative people who are honestly interested in the project.. and let them build the vision they come up with.
Which is the main problem.. there is not that much freedom of creation... which is one reason many people who work in the industry leave. Working for a privately held company can be great.. right up until they decide to sell to a large corporation...
You cry for milk and cookies, but if it was delivered you would just abuse the milk and cookies and run away with just a sip of milk and a tiny bite out of the cookies. You're burnt out on mmorpgs, and the developers know that. You complain about everything and blame the problems on the developers, but if you don't realize it, the only problem YOU can change is yourself.
I am a indie developer. I constantly read these forums for any logical advice. I notice that most people have pet peeves with why games can't replace their crappy lives. Don't get me wrong, some of the ideas I see on here are ingenious, and I listen a lot to the community. The community demands cake, but when they get a slice of cake they claim that it will rot their teeth and go back to the dog food most major developers serve them to eat.
So you want a game like real life where the npc mate, have kids, pay mortgages and fart? Go outside. As a developer I see only putting as much immersion as a player can have fun with into a game, and nothing more. That doesn't mean give them most of the cake mix to play with. That means giving them as much cake mix to bake as long as it isn't a real life clone.
No game is fun if its exactly like real life, and I mean exactly like real life. Should I put your pointless job and the boss you hate in the game as well so they can scold you and talk down to you like they do everyday? Or should I put a npc that is somewhat alive but doesn't scold you the way your boss does? You gonna scream "This game sucks cuz the npc can't scream at me like my boss does, boo bad game, let's rant now!". Should I put it that when you commit a crime you are in jail and can never get out? Should I script how Bubba and you cuddle at night sharing a bed?
I think you are just worn out on games and have nothing better to do than complain. By now, if anyone followed your ideas other than indies then you would have a decent released game by now. Commercial Investors can give a crap what you think, but I do. They know better than to shift through all the garbage on here to find something worth importing. It's like a pack of dogs, you cry for meat and when you get the meat you want, you whimper and complain about the luxury steak set before you.
Now, I heard a lot of cries, and I see very few good ideas. If I took everything you wanted (the logical stuff) and put it into a finished game I woudl charge $15 a month no box fee. You would complain about that, and then you would demand that it be free with no cash shop, no taxes, and that I PAID YOU TO PLAY. Utter useless garbage for people playing mmorpgs like a job. Fun sells, but who to sell fun to? Whinning complainers that would rather bootleg mp3s instead of buying music? People who would rather sit on their butt and let money dance into their door?
Give me a human to market, not the new generation that can't even cook hotpockets correctly. You look at a chicken and wonder how kfc turns it into a bucket of fried chicken. You think that if you put that chicken into a bucket of kfc it turns into instant hot wings or crispy thighs. You think food pops up magically behind the grocery store out o a hole in the ground for you to buy. You think clothes and shoes grow on trees located inside Macy's and JCPenny. Now that you know how dumb you are, know that there is salvation. Stop playing games soo much of one type and alternate. Play games of different types, then come back and relook at what you really want in a game. When it comes my time for you to rant and rage about my stuff, I will be looking for logics, not the baby screams you do when you can't have your way on the internet.
To answer the thread simply, no. This websites community is a fun sucking parasite and nothing you post makes logical sense, nor does it contain a single good idea. All it is is a collection of rants from people wishing they stil liked the genre they are addicted to.
Comments
And we've seen the gems that devs have released with just their own ideas.
Problem is most the the gaming population (consumers and developers) don't have a clue. Mix in the cost to create these monsters. The extreme polar opposites between most of the consumer population pvp vs pve, hardcore vs casual, skill vs class/level, player economy vs drop economy, etc. mix all that together and you have a perfect storm.
Plus you can break down each verses into multiple verses for example hardcore vs casual. Most people call WoW casual friendly. Where I think it fits more into ADHD friendly. People call old UO hardcore but I used to log on solo or group for 10 minutes to hours. And regardless of what I did or how I did it I was moving forward.
So if a developer can design a way to create a game with dozens of different server rule sets without having to reprogram the core game for each different rule we may see a perfect mmo. There will still be a portion of the mmo population that still bitches though. You will never make everyone happy.
I'm 99% certain developers read forums like these. But it isn't because they are looking for advice really.
MMORPGs are VERY expensive to make. Anyone with any experience on a design team can tell you a huge chunk of time gets spent cutting ideas. In order to increase the focus of quality on the features they feel matter.
A GREAT example is Square Enix and the Jump mechanic, and Guild Wars with a swim feature.
Both Arena and SE read these forums regularly, and both of these features are insanely popular for their rather minimal impact on these games.
The #1 reason they were cut in the first place is because they are a) Not necessary and b) have more of an impact behind the scenes than they do in front of them.
Adding the jump ability to FFXI means artists must spend time creating animations for each race, armor sets have to be tested, as well as reprogramming physics for various zones. At the time of FFXI's conception they were aiming for running the PS2, eliminating anything that was "uncessary" and didn't contribute to the gameplay value was cut. Same for Guild Wars.
Even such a modern and powerful game such as the upcomming game Guild Wars 2, they've already made certain swimming will not be in game. Why? Because the amount of time that simple feature would demand would retract them from their main features. 100hrs creating swimming animations, ai, physics, and zone design is 100hrs less spent making the Dynamic Questing system better, zones prettier, and classes more balanced.
I'm not saying there aren't good ideas floating around the forums. But the community as a whole has a proven track record of not knowing a clue about what their talking about.
---
Live a life less ordinary.
I don't really want any company going to any forum for "great ideas". I also don't want any large company to be more "hands on" with their developers. If you want something creative made.. you need to hire creative people who are honestly interested in the project.. and let them build the vision they come up with.
Which is the main problem.. there is not that much freedom of creation... which is one reason many people who work in the industry leave. Working for a privately held company can be great.. right up until they decide to sell to a large corporation...
Anyway the short version is: No.
You cry for milk and cookies, but if it was delivered you would just abuse the milk and cookies and run away with just a sip of milk and a tiny bite out of the cookies. You're burnt out on mmorpgs, and the developers know that. You complain about everything and blame the problems on the developers, but if you don't realize it, the only problem YOU can change is yourself.
I am a indie developer. I constantly read these forums for any logical advice. I notice that most people have pet peeves with why games can't replace their crappy lives. Don't get me wrong, some of the ideas I see on here are ingenious, and I listen a lot to the community. The community demands cake, but when they get a slice of cake they claim that it will rot their teeth and go back to the dog food most major developers serve them to eat.
So you want a game like real life where the npc mate, have kids, pay mortgages and fart? Go outside. As a developer I see only putting as much immersion as a player can have fun with into a game, and nothing more. That doesn't mean give them most of the cake mix to play with. That means giving them as much cake mix to bake as long as it isn't a real life clone.
No game is fun if its exactly like real life, and I mean exactly like real life. Should I put your pointless job and the boss you hate in the game as well so they can scold you and talk down to you like they do everyday? Or should I put a npc that is somewhat alive but doesn't scold you the way your boss does? You gonna scream "This game sucks cuz the npc can't scream at me like my boss does, boo bad game, let's rant now!". Should I put it that when you commit a crime you are in jail and can never get out? Should I script how Bubba and you cuddle at night sharing a bed?
I think you are just worn out on games and have nothing better to do than complain. By now, if anyone followed your ideas other than indies then you would have a decent released game by now. Commercial Investors can give a crap what you think, but I do. They know better than to shift through all the garbage on here to find something worth importing. It's like a pack of dogs, you cry for meat and when you get the meat you want, you whimper and complain about the luxury steak set before you.
Now, I heard a lot of cries, and I see very few good ideas. If I took everything you wanted (the logical stuff) and put it into a finished game I woudl charge $15 a month no box fee. You would complain about that, and then you would demand that it be free with no cash shop, no taxes, and that I PAID YOU TO PLAY. Utter useless garbage for people playing mmorpgs like a job. Fun sells, but who to sell fun to? Whinning complainers that would rather bootleg mp3s instead of buying music? People who would rather sit on their butt and let money dance into their door?
Give me a human to market, not the new generation that can't even cook hotpockets correctly. You look at a chicken and wonder how kfc turns it into a bucket of fried chicken. You think that if you put that chicken into a bucket of kfc it turns into instant hot wings or crispy thighs. You think food pops up magically behind the grocery store out o a hole in the ground for you to buy. You think clothes and shoes grow on trees located inside Macy's and JCPenny. Now that you know how dumb you are, know that there is salvation. Stop playing games soo much of one type and alternate. Play games of different types, then come back and relook at what you really want in a game. When it comes my time for you to rant and rage about my stuff, I will be looking for logics, not the baby screams you do when you can't have your way on the internet.
To answer the thread simply, no. This websites community is a fun sucking parasite and nothing you post makes logical sense, nor does it contain a single good idea. All it is is a collection of rants from people wishing they stil liked the genre they are addicted to.