When I played WoW, I was a priest and I healed my girlfriend while she played a hunter and killed everything for us. We could tackle some pretty high end stuff with just two people. But the point is, I was a healer, and she the killer. This seems like a widely held belief though. I'd like to know why.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
This had been talked about many times before, mostly on WOW forums.
So, if I play a healer, it's because I have an inborn desire to take care of others, unless I want to prove to men I'm strong because I'm "easily influenced by male egos?"
Is it just me, or does this sound really chauvinist? Somebody please tell me it isn't juts me.
Not just you.
/looks at Bezado's post, ah yes, the WoW forums, those shining paragons of intellectual debate.
The ev. psych. babble about girls and logic and hand-eye co-ordination can be handily touché-ed by the fact that women are better at multitasking than men. Being "good at" MMOs requires a good deal of that.
I've known girls that enjoy healing, as well as those that enjoy tanking (best tank I've ever known was female IRL), personally speaking I've always been more of a pew-pew DPS-er.
I have rolled healers, but generally in order better to understand how they work - not out of some "nurturing" instinct. If I ever get to the stage where my hormones have me wanting to nurture and tend to pixels I'll walk away from MMOs and start playing Farmville /shudder.
So, if I play a healer, it's because I have an inborn desire to take care of others, unless I want to prove to men I'm strong because I'm "easily influenced by male egos?"
Is it just me, or does this sound really chauvinist? Somebody please tell me it isn't juts me.
Didn't you get the memo?
this is female:
this is male:
end of story.
Pure win. 10/10 XD
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
It certainly seems like it. From my own personal experience, I've known more female healers than male. Just in my last guild we had four girls playing as healers on our raid, and only one guy. So what do you think? Are girls more inclined to the healer's role than guys are?
Basically Yes because girls in general have a natural disposition to want to nurture. This gravitates most girls into wanting to be a healer type class, but are easily influenced by male egos and can often times play melee type classes to try and compete or one up in showing they can handle with the guys. Most girls were drawn to the heal class but like I said the ones who felt like they were influenced or had to prove themselves would go towards the melee type of class. This had been talked about many times before, mostly on WOW forums.
So, if I play a healer, it's because I have an inborn desire to take care of others, unless I want to prove to men I'm strong because I'm "easily influenced by male egos?"
Is it just me, or does this sound really chauvinist? Somebody please tell me it isn't juts me.
Read the rest of that post, this was a comparison if done apples to apples and from earlier on in MMORPG gaming. I feel this has changed, but also your not the majority of females either. Also it was a psychological comparison to give validity to girls picking heal classes. Don't take offense cause there wasn't any to take from, read the full post.
Read the rest of that post, this was a comparison if done apples to apples and from earlier on in MMORPG gaming. I feel this has changed, but also your not the majority of females either. Also it was a psychological comparison to give validity to girls picking heal classes. Don't take offense cause there wasn't any to take from, read the full post.
This is how gender differences work. All your 'psychology' is just pop psychology with no actual basis in any scientific research whatsoever.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
I think Gamer girls like myself aren't as inclined to move just towards the healer/support roles. I've played everything from Main Tank, to healer, to ranged dps, to stealthy rogue classes.
I have always sort of leaned towards support, but that's because I am in no part worried about having to have my name top the dps charts, or for the other teams PvPers to see my name and think "oh god, she is going to kill me over and over." Besides that, I like to play what is needed for the group. Guys seem to heavily gravitate towards the roles that they can show off easily to others. There is always a ton of DPS and games lack tanks and healers, it's easy to see where I gravitated towards.
I think the other females who had never really played games or MMOs till WoW, DO gravitate towards a support roll. It's not a 100% thing of course. I just feel talking with other girl gamers, that our likes and dislikes are just as varied as any other person.
It's hard to really recall numbers, but I'm fairly sure that across all MMOs I've played there have been more females playing dps rolls then healer rolls. But, there could be PLENTY of reasons for that, and not just gender.
Most people voted on this poll are men, so this says nothing. I do however agree with
Originally posted by colddog04
Girls have a lower affinity towards many things that it takes to be a great MMORPG healer. More specifically, their affinity towards hand eye coordination and logical decision making is extremely low and those two things are the most important part of playing a healing class in an MMORPG.
I think this poll is useless, because even if it could be established that girls/guys have higher affinity for healing, the individual differences would be so much greater than gender based differences that the knowledge wouldn't be any use when encountering new people. I'd also be ready to bet that culture based differences and religion based differences are much greater than gender based differences.
Most people voted on this poll are men, so this says nothing. I do however agree with
Originally posted by colddog04
Girls have a lower affinity towards many things that it takes to be a great MMORPG healer. More specifically, their affinity towards hand eye coordination and logical decision making is extremely low and those two things are the most important part of playing a healing class in an MMORPG.
So no.
No offence, I think it's great that they're doing 'scientific' research experiments at high schools. Good way to learn.
But that doesn't actually make those experiments valid.
Boys are much more likely to have previous practice with remote controlled cars due to cars being, culturally, designed for boys. As such their increased performance wouldn't stem from any 'male' superiority but from the simple fact that more practice makes you better at something.
As to the second link, this is very much pop psychology. Sure, there's actual research that they're referring to but they're taking those conclusions way out of proportion. If 5% of males are taller then all females that doesn't lead to all males being taller then all females being a valid statement. In the same way that if 5% of males are more stoic and logical then all females then this doesn't mean in any way or form that all males are more stoic and logical then all females.
I mean just look at some of the statements made:
"Regardless of age, boys tend to be ill-prepared for the challenges along the way to becoming an emotionally healthy adult. Stereotypes of masculinity and toughness deny a boy his emotions and prevent him from fully developing a full range of emotional resources. Hence, boys are left to manage conflict, adversity and change in his life with a limited emotional repertoire."
I mean WHAT!? suddenly all men everywhere are emotionally repressed? Are you serious?
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Most people voted on this poll are men, so this says nothing. I do however agree with
Originally posted by colddog04
Girls have a lower affinity towards many things that it takes to be a great MMORPG healer. More specifically, their affinity towards hand eye coordination and logical decision making is extremely low and those two things are the most important part of playing a healing class in an MMORPG.
So no.
No offence, I think it's great that they're doing 'scientific' research experiments at high schools. Good way to learn.
But that doesn't actually make those experiments valid.
Boys are much more likely to have previous practice with remote controlled cars due to cars being, culturally, designed for boys. As such their increased performance wouldn't stem from any 'male' superiority but from the simple fact that more practice makes you better at something.
As to the second link, this is very much pop psychology. Sure, there's actual research that they're referring to but they're taking those conclusions way out of proportion. If 5% of males are taller then all females that doesn't lead to all males being taller then all females being a valid statement. In the same way that if 5% of males are more stoic and logical then all females then this doesn't mean in any way or form that all males are more stoic and logical then all females.
I mean just look at some of the statements made:
"Regardless of age, boys tend to be ill-prepared for the challenges along the way to becoming an emotionally healthy adult. Stereotypes of masculinity and toughness deny a boy his emotions and prevent him from fully developing a full range of emotional resources. Hence, boys are left to manage conflict, adversity and change in his life with a limited emotional repertoire."
I mean WHAT!? suddenly all men everywhere are emotionally repressed? Are you serious?
The question is set up for generalizations to be made. Overall aggregate is important.
Are there very specific female gamers that are excellent at playing MMORPGs? Sure. In an overall sense, do they have a natural affinity for playing a healing class over males? Not likely. Actually, it is extremely likely, based on a ton of test data and information that is out there that in an overall sense they would be worse.
Of course you can just toss it aside by saying there is no hard evidence about healing in MMORPGs and therefor nothing is worth paying attention to. But that's boring.
And that quote from that page does not say that all men are emotionally repressed. They did say that boys TEND to possess those attributes based a varying factors.
Guys who play female avatars seems to take healers often however.
My healers and support characters (like bards) are almost always male, while I prefer women for my tanks and damage dealers.
Originally posted by bezado
Originally posted by Adamantine
I'm shocked - bezado believes Pamela Anderson is a good girl.
(This is about his sig)
Its funny to read about this prejudices but unless somebody has hard numbers, I dont buy them.
Nice troll bait. What the heck does my sig have to do with this? [...]
That was supposed to be a joke.
Originally posted by Entropy14
I said yes, cause typically when we raided, there was a few girls on our raids, in most cases they were healers, the odd DPS and very few ever tanked. This is what i experienced anyways in several game, and a few different guilds/
Any numbers ?
And personally, I just feel WRONG when I play a character that cannot heal. I see other peoples health going down and I urgently search for the heal button.
Originally posted by gobla
In addition to that even if females were allowed to serve in active combat roles everywhere a large percentage of them would probably not pass the requires physical tests nor have the interest in joining the military.
Err ... this is extreme b.s. Females have naturally a little bit less body strength, yes, because testosterone builds strength, and men have naturally more testosterone and therefore more muscle power. But women have other bodily advantages, such as the better immune system. It matters when it comes to sports, but you dont need to be a top athlete to be a good soldier.
It certainly seems like it. From my own personal experience, I've known more female healers than male. Just in my last guild we had four girls playing as healers on our raid, and only one guy. So what do you think? Are girls more inclined to the healer's role than guys are?
Basically Yes because girls in general have a natural disposition to want to nurture. This gravitates most girls into wanting to be a healer type class, but are easily influenced by male egos and can often times play melee type classes to try and compete or one up in showing they can handle with the guys. Most girls were drawn to the heal class but like I said the ones who felt like they were influenced or had to prove themselves would go towards the melee type of class. This had been talked about many times before, mostly on WOW forums.
So, if I play a healer, it's because I have an inborn desire to take care of others, unless I want to prove to men I'm strong because I'm "easily influenced by male egos?"
Is it just me, or does this sound really chauvinist? Somebody please tell me it isn't juts me.
The first part I would say is correct, women are generally more norturing than men, this is because for centuries women has taken care of the children and has only recently been changed in some parts of the world. Also women are dominating professions such as nursing where again the primary job task is to take care of the other.
The second part of proving you are strong I have no clue if it fits women or not.
The question is set up for generalizations to be made. Overall aggregate is important.
Are there very specific female gamers that are excellent at playing MMORPGs? Sure. In an overall sense, do they have a natural affinity for playing a healing class over males? Not likely. Actually, it is extremely likely, based on a ton of test data and information that is out there that in an overall sense they would be worse.
Of course you can just toss it aside by saying there is no hard evidence about healing in MMORPGs and therefor nothing is worth paying attention to. But that's boring.
And that quote from that page does not say that all men are emotionally repressed. They did say that boys TEND to possess those attributes based a varying factors.
Generalizations should be made with care.
Females being on average more likely to pick healers does not make females more likely to pick healers.
The first section talks about average females. The second section talks about all females.
Also note how in the first sentence the word TEND is used but it completely disappears after that? Guess what people without statistical education are going to take away from reading that? It's not going to be that there are some men that are more emotionally repressed then some females.
To put it simply. You're you first. You're your gender in somewhere around the 20th place.
As such making sweeping statements like "females are more likely to pick healers" is just setting the stage for misinterpretation, sexism and chauvanism.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
The question is set up for generalizations to be made. Overall aggregate is important.
Are there very specific female gamers that are excellent at playing MMORPGs? Sure. In an overall sense, do they have a natural affinity for playing a healing class over males? Not likely. Actually, it is extremely likely, based on a ton of test data and information that is out there that in an overall sense they would be worse.
Of course you can just toss it aside by saying there is no hard evidence about healing in MMORPGs and therefor nothing is worth paying attention to. But that's boring.
And that quote from that page does not say that all men are emotionally repressed. They did say that boys TEND to possess those attributes based a varying factors.
Generalizations should be made with care.
Females being on average more likely to pick healers does not make females more likely to pick healers.
The first section talks about average females. The second section talks about all females.
Also note how in the first sentence the word TEND is used but it completely disappears after that? Guess what people without statistical education are going to take away from reading that? It's not going to be that there are some men that are more emotionally repressed then some females.
To put it simply. You're you first. You're your gender in somewhere around the 20th place.
As such making sweeping statements like "females are more likely to pick healers" is just setting the stage for misinterpretation, sexism and chauvanism.
Just pointing out that there are differences between men and women is not sexism or chauvinism. And it does not make it so just because you believe that the differences between men and women are minute.
What if an actual poll was made on actual MMORPG gamers for a specific game and the results showed that, percentage wise, a higher proportion of males played offensive characters and females played more defensive ones. Would that be a sexist poll, just because it shows that men and women are different?
Whenever you want to show that there are differences between anything, look at the extremes and the differences will be more apparent. Look at a female body builder vs a male body builder. Look at a female athlete and a male athlete etc. Even looking at questionaries regarding a wide different issues it shows a statistical difference from what men has answered and what females have in many different subjects.
So obviously there are differences in most areas ranging from physical prowess to mental profiles. Now if those differences comes from genetics, society, culture or all of them is another question but there ARE differences.
In addition to that even if females were allowed to serve in active combat roles everywhere a large percentage of them would probably not pass the requires physical tests nor have the interest in joining the military.
Err ... this is extreme b.s. Females have naturally a little bit less body strength, yes, because testosterone builds strength, and men have naturally more testosterone and therefore more muscle power. But women have other bodily advantages, such as the better immune system. It matters when it comes to sports, but you dont need to be a top athlete to be a good soldier.
It doesn't have anything to do with the female body or mind.
It's got everything to do with the simple fact that in high school and such most boys often play more intensive sports while most girls don't. (please don't interpret this as girls do less sports then boys..... real life isn't simple like that)
I totally agree that females could pass those tests. They've certainly got the potential. But potential doesn't make it so. We simply live in a culture where the military and a large amount of sports (football, rugby etc.) are seen as male things. This has nothing to do with males being somehow superior at those things when compared to females (some males will be better then some females while other females will be better then other males). Or even some sort of alpha male instinct rearing it's head causing all men to drool excessively and compete whenever possible.
It's simply the culture we live in that's shaped over decades for at the time logical reasons that are by now more often then not no longer relevant or even true (if they were in the first place).
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
In addition to that even if females were allowed to serve in active combat roles everywhere a large percentage of them would probably not pass the requires physical tests nor have the interest in joining the military.
Err ... this is extreme b.s. Females have naturally a little bit less body strength, yes, because testosterone builds strength, and men have naturally more testosterone and therefore more muscle power. But women have other bodily advantages, such as the better immune system. It matters when it comes to sports, but you dont need to be a top athlete to be a good soldier.
It doesn't have anything to do with the female body or mind.
It's got everything to do with the simple fact that in high school and such most boys often play more intensive sports while most girls don't. (please don't interpret this as girls do less sports then boys..... real life isn't simple like that)
I totally agree that females could pass those tests. They've certainly got the potential. But potential doesn't make it so. We simply live in a culture where the military and a large amount of sports (football, rugby etc.) are seen as male things. This has nothing to do with males being somehow superior at those things when compared to females (some males will be better then some females while other females will be better then other males). Or even some sort of alpha male instinct rearing it's head causing all men to drool excessively and compete whenever possible.
It's simply the culture we live in that's shaped over decades for at the time logical reasons that are by now more often then not no longer relevant or even true (if they were in the first place).
Just pointing out that there are differences between men and women is not sexism or chauvinism. And it does not make it so just because you believe that the differences between men and women are minute.
What if an actual poll was made on actual MMORPG gamers for a specific game and the results showed that, percentage wise, a higher proportion of males played offensive characters and females played more defensive ones. Would that be a sexist poll, just because it shows that men and women are different?
Whenever you want to show that there are differences between anything, look at the extremes and the differences will be more apparent. Look at a female body builder vs a male body builder. Look at a female athlete and a male athlete etc. Even looking at questionaries regarding a wide different issues it shows a statistical difference from what men has answered and what females have in many different subjects.
So obviously there are differences in most areas ranging from physical prowess to mental profiles. Now if those differences comes from genetics, society, culture or all of them is another question but there ARE differences.
There's no problem with there being differences. But care should be taken to avoid gross generalizations when detailing those differences and a good explanation should be attached.
If that isn't done then that statement isn't sexist in and of itself, but it does leave it open to be misinterpreted and through that lead to sexism.
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This is basically what the problem is with making statements about male/female in such a short way without actual numbers backing them up.
Whether it's due to me not detailing it well enough or colddog04 not interpreting it well enough it leads to:
"In high school and such most boys often play more intensive sports while most girls don't" turning into "Boys do more sports then girls" turning into "boys do sports and girls do not" leading to examples being given about female basketball leagues.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
I don't know if they have a higher affinity for it, but from my own experiences they seem much less prone to blowing a gasket over idiots going out of range and they don't seem to get easily ego-bruised if someone slights their prowess as a healer. This is froma decade or so of PvP, btw, as I am rarely in Vent/TS/RW/BC/etc for PvE so I rarely know who or what the healer is in those groups.
Are they more prone to being healers? No clue.
Are they better at it? In my experience, they can handle the stress of it better.
Girls actually tend to be more emotionally reactive, not less. This gives the average male player an advantage over the average women.
Have no clue why a particular women might not say anything after the group wipes because of a line of sight issue, but it's less likely that they are emotionally keeping their cool and more likely they are reacting like a lot of guys and trying to avoid responsibility.
I think you're confusing what an emotionally reactive response is here, in the context you quoted. When guys get agressive or downright upset about being called out on percieved inadequacy in their healing the response is often times triggered not so much from "feelings" or some feminine response to emotion, rather its about ego, and about handling questions to do with their capability to perform a certain role. In that respect I believe the quote is correct. That females have a less of a trigger in that area than men, and because of that handle being told how to do certain things or how to adjust certain responses, much better than men.
Saying that females would infact respond stronger than men in that area, due to being emotionally triggered earlier than a man in a similar situation is not true, in general, because the trigger is not emotion, but ego. - And while women can have just as big egos as men, their genitalia usually doesnt seem prone to shrivel to the size of raisins when being questioned by other males. Not so for many boys
In general these types of discussions are never anything other than sweeping generalisations on the subject, for obvious reasons. And there are allways people ready to point that out, sometimes to the detriment of any further discussion. Ofcourse women and men are different in their ways of dealing with things. However, just as irl both men and woman choose to be doctors, and women more so than men now that it is socially and culturally acceptable to persue that line of work as a norm for both genders. Does that mean the men who made up almost 100% of the profession a generation ago were more feminine than the men who chose other professions, or that the women who are now dominating the gender scale in medical schools are more male than their female counterparts in other professions. Ofcourse not. But it shows a cultural influence on what men and women will choose to do with themselves. Which in itself is interesting I think.
For any social group or small unit, like that of a raid group or dungeon group, I personally believe it reflects the averages we see irl, and that women will chose any role she can identify with irl. That of being a healer in the group reflects in part the caregiver or heart of the group, and I personally believe it on some levels, maybe even subconsciously to many girls, is an attractive role. So I do believe more females than males choose the role of a healer. However I do not think there are as many female healer in competitive gaming as there are males. But then that adds not only the affinity for the role, but also the affinity for competitiveness, and dedication to gaming into the equation.
Heh, I voted yes.. Primarily because that is all I have ever seen was a guy and his healbot wife, never the other way around.. Not to say that they aren't powerful because healers are probably THE most powerful class, I just think females like being the supporting staff as well as being the "hand of god" that the party relies on for survival..
And you could also say that they will play whatever class it takes to make sure their husband/boyfriends survive as much as possible..
This is basically what the problem is with making statements about male/female in such a short way without actual numbers backing them up.
Whether it's due to me not detailing it well enough or colddog04 not interpreting it well enough it leads to:
"In high school and such most boys often play more intensive sports while most girls don't" turning into "Boys do more sports then girls" turning into "boys do sports and girls do not" leading to examples being given about female basketball leagues.
However you want to spin it, the bottom line is this:
Men are far better at athletics than women in an overall sense. They are stronger, faster, bigger and just overall better at athletics. This is just the way the world is and to deny this fact would be... well, it would be denying a truth that is as plain to look at as water is wet - which you can of course form an argument against, but it always ends up being more of an exercise in silliness.
There are also differences between men and women when it comes to the way they think. It is of course a lot less obvious and allows someone to attempt to spin it like the differences are so minor as to be almost non-existent, but to most people that study psychology, there are clear overall differences that arise not only from nature, but nurture as well. You can choose to ignore this, but it wont change the situation.
Comments
When I played WoW, I was a priest and I healed my girlfriend while she played a hunter and killed everything for us. We could tackle some pretty high end stuff with just two people. But the point is, I was a healer, and she the killer. This seems like a widely held belief though. I'd like to know why.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Anyone seen guys like these in clothes? Probably gets caught for hiding bombs under their shirts.......and missiles in pants xD
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
Good thread topic.
I would say no just based on my own experience, ive seen amazing healers who were female, but ive also seen alot of bad ones.
I think girls tend to be more attuned to blasting stuff from ranged than they do healing, supports roles other than healing they are masters.
Is that a missile in your pants or are you just happy to see me?
Sorry, just had to.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
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Not just you.
/looks at Bezado's post, ah yes, the WoW forums, those shining paragons of intellectual debate.
The ev. psych. babble about girls and logic and hand-eye co-ordination can be handily touché-ed by the fact that women are better at multitasking than men. Being "good at" MMOs requires a good deal of that.
I've known girls that enjoy healing, as well as those that enjoy tanking (best tank I've ever known was female IRL), personally speaking I've always been more of a pew-pew DPS-er.
I have rolled healers, but generally in order better to understand how they work - not out of some "nurturing" instinct. If I ever get to the stage where my hormones have me wanting to nurture and tend to pixels I'll walk away from MMOs and start playing Farmville /shudder.
Pure win. 10/10 XD
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Read the rest of that post, this was a comparison if done apples to apples and from earlier on in MMORPG gaming. I feel this has changed, but also your not the majority of females either. Also it was a psychological comparison to give validity to girls picking heal classes. Don't take offense cause there wasn't any to take from, read the full post.
This is how gender differences work. All your 'psychology' is just pop psychology with no actual basis in any scientific research whatsoever.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
I think Gamer girls like myself aren't as inclined to move just towards the healer/support roles. I've played everything from Main Tank, to healer, to ranged dps, to stealthy rogue classes.
I have always sort of leaned towards support, but that's because I am in no part worried about having to have my name top the dps charts, or for the other teams PvPers to see my name and think "oh god, she is going to kill me over and over." Besides that, I like to play what is needed for the group. Guys seem to heavily gravitate towards the roles that they can show off easily to others. There is always a ton of DPS and games lack tanks and healers, it's easy to see where I gravitated towards.
I think the other females who had never really played games or MMOs till WoW, DO gravitate towards a support roll. It's not a 100% thing of course. I just feel talking with other girl gamers, that our likes and dislikes are just as varied as any other person.
It's hard to really recall numbers, but I'm fairly sure that across all MMOs I've played there have been more females playing dps rolls then healer rolls. But, there could be PLENTY of reasons for that, and not just gender.
Most people voted on this poll are men, so this says nothing. I do however agree with
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I think this poll is useless, because even if it could be established that girls/guys have higher affinity for healing, the individual differences would be so much greater than gender based differences that the knowledge wouldn't be any use when encountering new people. I'd also be ready to bet that culture based differences and religion based differences are much greater than gender based differences.
No offence, I think it's great that they're doing 'scientific' research experiments at high schools. Good way to learn.
But that doesn't actually make those experiments valid.
Boys are much more likely to have previous practice with remote controlled cars due to cars being, culturally, designed for boys. As such their increased performance wouldn't stem from any 'male' superiority but from the simple fact that more practice makes you better at something.
As to the second link, this is very much pop psychology. Sure, there's actual research that they're referring to but they're taking those conclusions way out of proportion. If 5% of males are taller then all females that doesn't lead to all males being taller then all females being a valid statement. In the same way that if 5% of males are more stoic and logical then all females then this doesn't mean in any way or form that all males are more stoic and logical then all females.
I mean just look at some of the statements made:
"Regardless of age, boys tend to be ill-prepared for the challenges along the way to becoming an emotionally healthy adult. Stereotypes of masculinity and toughness deny a boy his emotions and prevent him from fully developing a full range of emotional resources. Hence, boys are left to manage conflict, adversity and change in his life with a limited emotional repertoire."
I mean WHAT!? suddenly all men everywhere are emotionally repressed? Are you serious?
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The question is set up for generalizations to be made. Overall aggregate is important.
Are there very specific female gamers that are excellent at playing MMORPGs? Sure. In an overall sense, do they have a natural affinity for playing a healing class over males? Not likely. Actually, it is extremely likely, based on a ton of test data and information that is out there that in an overall sense they would be worse.
Of course you can just toss it aside by saying there is no hard evidence about healing in MMORPGs and therefor nothing is worth paying attention to. But that's boring.
And that quote from that page does not say that all men are emotionally repressed. They did say that boys TEND to possess those attributes based a varying factors.
He's too obvious.
And besides, I WISHED he was right ... my last guild had a top healer (a woman) and a second best healer (me).
More interesting would be:
Male: Prefers Healer
Male: Prefers Tank
Male: Prefers Supporting Damage Dealer (Bard, Enchanter etc)
Male: Prefers Straight Damage Dealer (Rogue, Mage etc)
Female: Prefers Healer
Female: Prefers Tank
Female: Prefers Supporting Damage Dealer (Bard, Enchanter etc)
Female: Prefers Straight Damage Dealer (Rogue, Mage etc)
My healers and support characters (like bards) are almost always male, while I prefer women for my tanks and damage dealers.
That was supposed to be a joke.
Any numbers ?
And personally, I just feel WRONG when I play a character that cannot heal. I see other peoples health going down and I urgently search for the heal button.
Err ... this is extreme b.s. Females have naturally a little bit less body strength, yes, because testosterone builds strength, and men have naturally more testosterone and therefore more muscle power. But women have other bodily advantages, such as the better immune system. It matters when it comes to sports, but you dont need to be a top athlete to be a good soldier.
I picked no but truly I wouldn't even be able to guess. As someone mentioned earlier I rarely find out the sex of people I play with.
The first part I would say is correct, women are generally more norturing than men, this is because for centuries women has taken care of the children and has only recently been changed in some parts of the world. Also women are dominating professions such as nursing where again the primary job task is to take care of the other.
The second part of proving you are strong I have no clue if it fits women or not.
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Generalizations should be made with care.
Females being on average more likely to pick healers does not make females more likely to pick healers.
The first section talks about average females. The second section talks about all females.
Also note how in the first sentence the word TEND is used but it completely disappears after that? Guess what people without statistical education are going to take away from reading that? It's not going to be that there are some men that are more emotionally repressed then some females.
To put it simply. You're you first. You're your gender in somewhere around the 20th place.
As such making sweeping statements like "females are more likely to pick healers" is just setting the stage for misinterpretation, sexism and chauvanism.
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Just pointing out that there are differences between men and women is not sexism or chauvinism. And it does not make it so just because you believe that the differences between men and women are minute.
What if an actual poll was made on actual MMORPG gamers for a specific game and the results showed that, percentage wise, a higher proportion of males played offensive characters and females played more defensive ones. Would that be a sexist poll, just because it shows that men and women are different?
Whenever you want to show that there are differences between anything, look at the extremes and the differences will be more apparent. Look at a female body builder vs a male body builder. Look at a female athlete and a male athlete etc. Even looking at questionaries regarding a wide different issues it shows a statistical difference from what men has answered and what females have in many different subjects.
So obviously there are differences in most areas ranging from physical prowess to mental profiles. Now if those differences comes from genetics, society, culture or all of them is another question but there ARE differences.
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It doesn't have anything to do with the female body or mind.
It's got everything to do with the simple fact that in high school and such most boys often play more intensive sports while most girls don't. (please don't interpret this as girls do less sports then boys..... real life isn't simple like that)
I totally agree that females could pass those tests. They've certainly got the potential. But potential doesn't make it so. We simply live in a culture where the military and a large amount of sports (football, rugby etc.) are seen as male things. This has nothing to do with males being somehow superior at those things when compared to females (some males will be better then some females while other females will be better then other males). Or even some sort of alpha male instinct rearing it's head causing all men to drool excessively and compete whenever possible.
It's simply the culture we live in that's shaped over decades for at the time logical reasons that are by now more often then not no longer relevant or even true (if they were in the first place).
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Have you ever seen a WNBA game?
There's no problem with there being differences. But care should be taken to avoid gross generalizations when detailing those differences and a good explanation should be attached.
If that isn't done then that statement isn't sexist in and of itself, but it does leave it open to be misinterpreted and through that lead to sexism.
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This is basically what the problem is with making statements about male/female in such a short way without actual numbers backing them up.
Whether it's due to me not detailing it well enough or colddog04 not interpreting it well enough it leads to:
"In high school and such most boys often play more intensive sports while most girls don't" turning into "Boys do more sports then girls" turning into "boys do sports and girls do not" leading to examples being given about female basketball leagues.
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I think you're confusing what an emotionally reactive response is here, in the context you quoted. When guys get agressive or downright upset about being called out on percieved inadequacy in their healing the response is often times triggered not so much from "feelings" or some feminine response to emotion, rather its about ego, and about handling questions to do with their capability to perform a certain role. In that respect I believe the quote is correct. That females have a less of a trigger in that area than men, and because of that handle being told how to do certain things or how to adjust certain responses, much better than men.
Saying that females would infact respond stronger than men in that area, due to being emotionally triggered earlier than a man in a similar situation is not true, in general, because the trigger is not emotion, but ego. - And while women can have just as big egos as men, their genitalia usually doesnt seem prone to shrivel to the size of raisins when being questioned by other males. Not so for many boys
In general these types of discussions are never anything other than sweeping generalisations on the subject, for obvious reasons. And there are allways people ready to point that out, sometimes to the detriment of any further discussion. Ofcourse women and men are different in their ways of dealing with things. However, just as irl both men and woman choose to be doctors, and women more so than men now that it is socially and culturally acceptable to persue that line of work as a norm for both genders. Does that mean the men who made up almost 100% of the profession a generation ago were more feminine than the men who chose other professions, or that the women who are now dominating the gender scale in medical schools are more male than their female counterparts in other professions. Ofcourse not. But it shows a cultural influence on what men and women will choose to do with themselves. Which in itself is interesting I think.
For any social group or small unit, like that of a raid group or dungeon group, I personally believe it reflects the averages we see irl, and that women will chose any role she can identify with irl. That of being a healer in the group reflects in part the caregiver or heart of the group, and I personally believe it on some levels, maybe even subconsciously to many girls, is an attractive role. So I do believe more females than males choose the role of a healer. However I do not think there are as many female healer in competitive gaming as there are males. But then that adds not only the affinity for the role, but also the affinity for competitiveness, and dedication to gaming into the equation.
Heh, I voted yes.. Primarily because that is all I have ever seen was a guy and his healbot wife, never the other way around.. Not to say that they aren't powerful because healers are probably THE most powerful class, I just think females like being the supporting staff as well as being the "hand of god" that the party relies on for survival..
And you could also say that they will play whatever class it takes to make sure their husband/boyfriends survive as much as possible..
Just saying..
However you want to spin it, the bottom line is this:
Men are far better at athletics than women in an overall sense. They are stronger, faster, bigger and just overall better at athletics. This is just the way the world is and to deny this fact would be... well, it would be denying a truth that is as plain to look at as water is wet - which you can of course form an argument against, but it always ends up being more of an exercise in silliness.
There are also differences between men and women when it comes to the way they think. It is of course a lot less obvious and allows someone to attempt to spin it like the differences are so minor as to be almost non-existent, but to most people that study psychology, there are clear overall differences that arise not only from nature, but nurture as well. You can choose to ignore this, but it wont change the situation.