honeslty the problem is fanbois are never satisfied and they are the core audience for ip mmos. and frankly your asessment of sto is wrong it's gaining players with the improvements the game has seen
The number of planets will be limited as well. There's really no way they can program all the planets from Star Wars. Player's hard drives and ram aren't 50TB lol. There's nearly infinite number of planets, and even though there are only maybe 15 that are prevalant in the movies/shows, it doesn't seem MMO-ey or Star Wars-ey to me to be limited to only planets named/shown in the movies.
See that old classic game Elite... It is perfectly possible to have more than a handful of planets. The issue is that the devs don't want to deviate too far from the standard mmo mold.
It may well be the best choice given the simple tastes of most players, but for 80 million dollars they could have done more if they cared to take a risk. The biggest problem of IP MMOs is that the devs just make the same old game and try to make the IP fit the game rather than make a game based on the IP. With most IP MMOs WoW is a greater influence than the IP on which the game is based...
I dunno its a lot like lincenced video games also, particularly video games licenced to movies ? seriously how many "games of the movie" are actually any good ? very few.
I think using existing IP can make developers lazy, instead of going all out to make the best experience possible they tend to go "well the players will overlook that because they love the IP".
I desperately hope that WH40k is smart enough to add a third faction, we all know faction Vs Faction works better with 3 factions instead of 2.....
I think it really depends on both the IP and on the developers. There are some IP's that would make good adaptations to MMO's and others that wouldn't. Essentialy an IP can't just be about one story/hero/small group of characters that make the world interesting.... it has to be a UNIVERSE/WORLD of interesting characters/stories/situations that make the IP entertaining.
A "Hunt for Red October" IP, as awesome as the movie was, would make for a crappy MMO as it was all about one story/incident and the small group of characters involved in it...not much material for stuff happening outside of that.
On the other hand, "Star Trek" could work as an IP because even though the focus of the series was about 1 ship and it's crews.....it wasn't the only ship and crew out there doing interesting things. There was a whole universe of ships, crews and characters (not all of them even Star Fleet) out there doing interesting stuff ..... it's just that all that was happening "off screen".
The other things is that the developers have to understand what it is about the IP that makes it so entertaining. They have to really know the essence of the IP....and make sure that they have the technology and budget to deliver that. That's (IMO) really where STO fell down. As the essence of Star Treks appeal wasn't just about space-ships flying around shooting at each other....but the personal interaction of the crew working together....and the discovery of the strange and interesting oddities of the galaxy it journies through.
If a game can't deliver (for budget, technology or other reasons) on the core essence of what makes an IP entertaining, then it really is WORSE off using that IP then some self-designed IP. STO wouldn't (IMO) have flopped as hard as it did had it simply been named "Space Shooter 2010" or something and used a self-designed IP (or maybe even an established IP that WAS all about space-ships shooting each other). The game wouldn't have been any richer content & experience wise....but the expectations of the players wouldn't have been something completely different then what the game could deliver.
For example, I like action shooters....and I enjoy CHESS... but a CHESS themed action shooter isn't something I'd have an interest in playing.
Sorry but AoC is very true to the IP, and turned out to be an awesome game. But nobody cares anymore. I don't work for the company. The amount of money a game makes or players on the server is not my definition of success. My definition is whether or not I like the game.
Hell, WoW was based on an IP. I can pull out an equally long list of crappy non-IP games. Irrelevent article.
Experiencing the IP's as MMORPG's is a lot like watching the movie after reading the book.
When you read the book, sure the author provides some mental images for you... but your mind paints the pictures. You generate the 'world' in your head and when you read the words, you create your own 'movie' esque experience in your head. Or, at least, that's pretty close to what I do. When the movie roll's around, you see an adaptation of the IP (book) in someone else's eyes... their vision. Not the original (author's version), not yours (the reader's), but instead a 3rd party that spoon feed's you their version.
To me, that's really what happens when IP's become MMO's. Books, movies, comic's, or even other video games that become MMO's generally don't live up to hype the IP itself has built up. SOE's SWG is a great example. Growing up as a major Star Wars fan, I was excited to hear that the MMO was being created. When it finally hit, however, the reality fo what I logged into and saw was... well... it wasn't everything I had hoped for. It was 'enough', however, to keep me happy for a few years... until the CU/NGE.
The point... dev's really need to be careful when treading on fan's imaginations.
Stay true to the IP. Sure, make a 'fun game'... but don't kill lore and wreck the creator's vision to do so. Movies often commit this type of a crime, but MMO's are simply over the top at times.
To be honest, I think we're hitting the MMO-crash. Think back to when internet start-ups were making teenage kids into billionaires. Everybody and his dog jumped on the bandwagon. The market became saturated, and just like in nature, the weak perished, and the whole dream came tumbling down.
I think the same thing is happening with MMOs. 10 years ago, it was a budding market, and it was possible to make something successful. But now there are too many suits at the table, all wanting a piece of the pie, and the consumers - I'm generalizing - are simply bored and tired with an overly-saturated market. I'll take a stab at guessing that about 70% of all the posting on this website is bitching and complaining. Seems that we're all just sick and tired of all these games they keep developing.
I'm just as bad. I can't seem to find a game that holds my interest past the free month.
I was pretty much like, 'WTF?!' when Mummy Online was announced. I don't see how that one is ever gonna make it.
But some companies are pushing the boundaries. Whatever people might think of Rift, or Trion's idea to combine a TV show with an online game, it's an incredibly ballsy idea. CCP are creating some interesting cross-platform ideas (even if you don't like it).
Anyhoo, back to my point. I just think the MMO bubble has burst now, and I'm not sure what it needs in order to recover...
Something else I thought of, about the inherent problem with working off an IP.
The story has already been told.
All the stuff that has inspired you about that IP, has already happened. Let's take Star Wars as an example. I grew up watching the originals in the movie theatres, and was hooked like millions of other kids. Then, eventually, came SWG. And I was hooked into that for a few years. But always, at the back of my mind, was this feeling.. like I could never really be quite as cool as those characters on the big screen. My character would never be as 'large' or important.
That's ok, of course. And it doesn't mean that there are no more stories to be told. Star Wars has a massive Extended Universe, for example. But, my feeling is, that whatever stories get told in the games never truly quite match the IP's original experience. As someone above me said in the case of books-to-movies.
So you can tell a host of new stories, and you can be a part of the original ones, but (to me at least) they never quite match up to the original.
I will say that one of the lower-level instances in LOTRO is an exception. The one where you assault Weathertop to stop the orcs, and it leads up to this nasty big troll breaking out and coming for you. That actually felt pretty damn epic and inspiring to me.
Comments
honeslty the problem is fanbois are never satisfied and they are the core audience for ip mmos. and frankly your asessment of sto is wrong it's gaining players with the improvements the game has seen
so say we all
See that old classic game Elite... It is perfectly possible to have more than a handful of planets. The issue is that the devs don't want to deviate too far from the standard mmo mold.
It may well be the best choice given the simple tastes of most players, but for 80 million dollars they could have done more if they cared to take a risk. The biggest problem of IP MMOs is that the devs just make the same old game and try to make the IP fit the game rather than make a game based on the IP. With most IP MMOs WoW is a greater influence than the IP on which the game is based...
I dunno its a lot like lincenced video games also, particularly video games licenced to movies ? seriously how many "games of the movie" are actually any good ? very few.
I think using existing IP can make developers lazy, instead of going all out to make the best experience possible they tend to go "well the players will overlook that because they love the IP".
I desperately hope that WH40k is smart enough to add a third faction, we all know faction Vs Faction works better with 3 factions instead of 2.....
I think it really depends on both the IP and on the developers. There are some IP's that would make good adaptations to MMO's and others that wouldn't. Essentialy an IP can't just be about one story/hero/small group of characters that make the world interesting.... it has to be a UNIVERSE/WORLD of interesting characters/stories/situations that make the IP entertaining.
A "Hunt for Red October" IP, as awesome as the movie was, would make for a crappy MMO as it was all about one story/incident and the small group of characters involved in it...not much material for stuff happening outside of that.
On the other hand, "Star Trek" could work as an IP because even though the focus of the series was about 1 ship and it's crews.....it wasn't the only ship and crew out there doing interesting things. There was a whole universe of ships, crews and characters (not all of them even Star Fleet) out there doing interesting stuff ..... it's just that all that was happening "off screen".
The other things is that the developers have to understand what it is about the IP that makes it so entertaining. They have to really know the essence of the IP....and make sure that they have the technology and budget to deliver that. That's (IMO) really where STO fell down. As the essence of Star Treks appeal wasn't just about space-ships flying around shooting at each other....but the personal interaction of the crew working together....and the discovery of the strange and interesting oddities of the galaxy it journies through.
If a game can't deliver (for budget, technology or other reasons) on the core essence of what makes an IP entertaining, then it really is WORSE off using that IP then some self-designed IP. STO wouldn't (IMO) have flopped as hard as it did had it simply been named "Space Shooter 2010" or something and used a self-designed IP (or maybe even an established IP that WAS all about space-ships shooting each other). The game wouldn't have been any richer content & experience wise....but the expectations of the players wouldn't have been something completely different then what the game could deliver.
For example, I like action shooters....and I enjoy CHESS... but a CHESS themed action shooter isn't something I'd have an interest in playing.
Sorry but AoC is very true to the IP, and turned out to be an awesome game. But nobody cares anymore. I don't work for the company. The amount of money a game makes or players on the server is not my definition of success. My definition is whether or not I like the game.
Hell, WoW was based on an IP. I can pull out an equally long list of crappy non-IP games. Irrelevent article.
Experiencing the IP's as MMORPG's is a lot like watching the movie after reading the book.
When you read the book, sure the author provides some mental images for you... but your mind paints the pictures. You generate the 'world' in your head and when you read the words, you create your own 'movie' esque experience in your head. Or, at least, that's pretty close to what I do. When the movie roll's around, you see an adaptation of the IP (book) in someone else's eyes... their vision. Not the original (author's version), not yours (the reader's), but instead a 3rd party that spoon feed's you their version.
To me, that's really what happens when IP's become MMO's. Books, movies, comic's, or even other video games that become MMO's generally don't live up to hype the IP itself has built up. SOE's SWG is a great example. Growing up as a major Star Wars fan, I was excited to hear that the MMO was being created. When it finally hit, however, the reality fo what I logged into and saw was... well... it wasn't everything I had hoped for. It was 'enough', however, to keep me happy for a few years... until the CU/NGE.
The point... dev's really need to be careful when treading on fan's imaginations.
Stay true to the IP. Sure, make a 'fun game'... but don't kill lore and wreck the creator's vision to do so. Movies often commit this type of a crime, but MMO's are simply over the top at times.
Making any kind of MMO at the moment is crazy.
To be honest, I think we're hitting the MMO-crash. Think back to when internet start-ups were making teenage kids into billionaires. Everybody and his dog jumped on the bandwagon. The market became saturated, and just like in nature, the weak perished, and the whole dream came tumbling down.
I think the same thing is happening with MMOs. 10 years ago, it was a budding market, and it was possible to make something successful. But now there are too many suits at the table, all wanting a piece of the pie, and the consumers - I'm generalizing - are simply bored and tired with an overly-saturated market. I'll take a stab at guessing that about 70% of all the posting on this website is bitching and complaining. Seems that we're all just sick and tired of all these games they keep developing.
I'm just as bad. I can't seem to find a game that holds my interest past the free month.
I was pretty much like, 'WTF?!' when Mummy Online was announced. I don't see how that one is ever gonna make it.
But some companies are pushing the boundaries. Whatever people might think of Rift, or Trion's idea to combine a TV show with an online game, it's an incredibly ballsy idea. CCP are creating some interesting cross-platform ideas (even if you don't like it).
Anyhoo, back to my point. I just think the MMO bubble has burst now, and I'm not sure what it needs in order to recover...
Something else I thought of, about the inherent problem with working off an IP.
The story has already been told.
All the stuff that has inspired you about that IP, has already happened. Let's take Star Wars as an example. I grew up watching the originals in the movie theatres, and was hooked like millions of other kids. Then, eventually, came SWG. And I was hooked into that for a few years. But always, at the back of my mind, was this feeling.. like I could never really be quite as cool as those characters on the big screen. My character would never be as 'large' or important.
That's ok, of course. And it doesn't mean that there are no more stories to be told. Star Wars has a massive Extended Universe, for example. But, my feeling is, that whatever stories get told in the games never truly quite match the IP's original experience. As someone above me said in the case of books-to-movies.
So you can tell a host of new stories, and you can be a part of the original ones, but (to me at least) they never quite match up to the original.
I will say that one of the lower-level instances in LOTRO is an exception. The one where you assault Weathertop to stop the orcs, and it leads up to this nasty big troll breaking out and coming for you. That actually felt pretty damn epic and inspiring to me.