The deserve to go down because of chasing after a kid for modifying his own PS3 which he never legally signed any legally binding contract with sony that said he couldn't, they also screwed over many customers, and that is the very short version of the things that sony has done.
Rich companies mean nothing, and you all can go broke just as fast if you loose a lot of its player base which no doubt sony already has.
George Hotz is not a kid. he is 21 years old and knew full well what he was doing is illegal. he just didnt think he would be called out on it like that. Was sony wrong in requesting those IP addresses? It was an ill thought out scare tactic. Its not like they were going to do anything with them. What could they do with them? Watching a youtube video is not equal to hacking your ps3. But this image of big bad corporation going after this innocent little kid is absurd.
If your still messing around with SoE, then you shoulda known this was coming sooner or later, SoE has been pissing gamers and hackers off for a long time, and once Sony came out and said hackers couldnt touch them, I knew they were done for. The hackers will get the most blame for this, tho its clearly Sonys fault, they need to close their doors already.
P.S. Whos dumb enough to store their personal information with the companys? Every company these days has an option to remove your information after paying for your subscription so you never have to store your info with them, if you choose not to do that, its your own fault.
When did sony come out and say hackers can't touch them? If anything , that is the reason why they are getting hacked.
These are just a few, you can search google and just see a slew of it, Sony originally said all their stuff was unhackable, and that was when all of this started, since then they've changed their tune, but once you opwn pandoras box its kinda hard to close, surprizing that.
P.S. I understand your worry about your infomation being leaked and the chances of finacial fraud, if you have any of this information stored with Sony, I would remove it and change it, if you not sure and really worried, I'd get a new card, Banks do it pretty willingly. Personally any company that makes me keep my Credit Card information, or Address information on their site doesnt get my business, Square Enix used to be the worst about this. Giving them the information to pay for something and then immediatly removing it is what you want to be doing in any situation where you paying Online.
Is it right, no. Did they get what was coming to them, yes. I for one am glad that there are people that can cripple mega corporations. It would be a scary world without them. It's about time someone Fight clubbed the U.S. and Chinese Governments (insert any other ridculous "righteous" government i.e. Iran, Sudan, North Korea, Israel, Yemen) for all the crap they pull
Is it right, no. Did they get what was coming to them, yes. I for one am glad that there are people that can cripple mega corporations. It would be a scary world without them. It's about time someone Fight clubbed the U.S. and Chinese Governments (insert any other ridculous "righteous" government i.e. Iran, Sudan, North Korea, Israel, Yemen) for all the crap they pull
People still fail to see big picture. The big picture is this: Sony is a company may be hurt. But the high ranking employees will still have jobs if Sony crumbles. No one important is getting hurt here. Only customers. Because Sony took legal action against someone that was doing something illegal.
Meanwhile im chilling as i never use real data, its kinda funny also. People buttmad cause data got "openly" out while its normal to accept agbs that often permit trading personal data forth.
Is it right, no. Did they get what was coming to them, yes. I for one am glad that there are people that can cripple mega corporations. It would be a scary world without them. It's about time someone Fight clubbed the U.S. and Chinese Governments (insert any other ridculous "righteous" government i.e. Iran, Sudan, North Korea, Israel, Yemen) for all the crap they pull
People still fail to see big picture. The big picture is this: Sony is a company may be hurt. But the high ranking employees will still have jobs if Sony crumbles. No one important is getting hurt here. Only customers. Because Sony took legal action against someone that was doing something illegal.
It's actually more complicated than that. Sony changed the end user agreement for the Playstation and someone figured out how to make the Playstation act the way it originally did. They then took legal action against him for telling people how to make the Playstation work the way it originally did under the end user agreement the Playstation was purchased under. In that perspective, I have to disagree with Sony. When you buy something under a certain agreement and the company changes that agreement AFTER the fact, you should not be bound by the new terms if you do not agree to them.
George Hotz is not a kid. he is 21 years old and knew full well what he was doing is illegal. he just didnt think he would be called out on it like that. Was sony wrong in requesting those IP addresses? It was an ill thought out scare tactic. Its not like they were going to do anything with them. What could they do with them? Watching a youtube video is not equal to hacking your ps3. But this image of big bad corporation going after this innocent little kid is absurd.
Ho come on dude George Hotz showed to Sony how he broke thier PS3 with the purpose to get some job from them (at least what he claim when he delivered the info), and the guys at Sony decided to sue him... Nice.
As if they couldn't just get him a job... I mean its not like they would have loose something really, the guy is a kind of genius; some poeple tryed to break the ps3 for years already.
SOE didn't feel sorry for me when they switched their game with the NGE so why should I ever feel sorry for them for any reason (other than loss of life).
I took the privilege to shorten the quote to what I think it's really about, the rest of your comments I already reacted upon in my own PM reply. Basically it sounds like you're ok that SOE or even the larger company Sony got damaged or if possible even destroyed, because they hurt your gaming fun back in the days with SWG.
In fact, from reading your comments you're ok if hackers went so far and attacked other companies that hurt your gaming fun in some way. Maybe even those (gaming) companies that didn't hurt you but that behaved in a samelike way to their customers like maybe an Activision, EA, Cryptic, Funcom, Square Enix or NCSoft, but you'll probably feel less emotionally attached towards the punishment of those if you yourself weren't hurt by them. The principle however is that you'd agree with it if hackers would assault others companies like that in the same way to make their point. Am I correct?
Here's where I agree to disagree
Originally posted by someforumguy
Necessary? There are other ways without spilling customers personal information all over internet. For the customers in question, the 'real issue' is their personal information, not Sony.
You can say that Sony doesnt care about the customers, but apparently the hackers (or crackers whatever) dont care about them either. Actually they are worse, they put customers in harms way on purpose.
So only two parties to blame here. The hackers and in this case Sony Pictures.
This.
I think there are 2 separate things in this here. First you have the hackers who started attacking to send a message: that message is 'if you attack 1 of our own, we will come after you and destroy you and we will show you the power we have'. THAT is the message that they wanted to send out, to any company who dares to even attempt to go after them. A message of fear. While I strongly disagree with how some companies do their business, I equally dislike a group of hackers running rampant for the lolz of it with no regard for which other internet users they damage in the process. It sounds like a group of joyriders that have great fun riding over the boulevards no matter who they run over in the process.
The second thing is that some people here are completely ok with what these hackers did and even gleeful about it, because they feel Sony deserves it.
And from what I gather from reading the many comments on this site, this cheering on isn't for some noble reason like that the company might destroy people's lives with their actions in third world countries or such, but for a very simple and basic reason, namely that SOE (not even Sony as overall company) hurt their gaming fun with SWG 6 years ago, after which their grievance and witch hunt towards SOE or Sony started. And apparently, to some, was never let go of that hatred or grudge.
For as far as I see it, 1 simple, almost trivial after 6 years, act namely that SOE changed the gameplay in a game they made.
At least, this is the argument that I see people give most as reason why Sony deserves it, so apparently this is the most important reason to them why people wish any misfortune on Sony even if it's something where 1 million and more people and their private information are struck as collateral damage.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Personally I think they deserved it. Going after someone for allowing people to unlock their own property is ridiculous.
I'm going to sell a house to someone, but I'm going to keep the garage locked, because *gasp* some people on the planet have done illegal things in their garages before. I mean come on, just because they have the money and power to manipulate the laws of America, doesn't change the fact that they're abusing the freedoms of those who would uphold some sort of morals with their gaming.
Also, if you're going to say you're untouchable you deserve to have your face rubbed in the mud for the simple fact that you're arrogant and dilluded.
As far as the colateral damage of customers. I think in the long run it can be compared to war against a malicious government. Sure when you over through a dictator, sometimes the people suffer for it, but in the end they are taken out of the mess they had been forced to live in by a group of people that placed them into slavery. I hope the hackers shake loose some of these 'innocent' people that still seem to cling to some dillusion that SOE is a company they should keep throwing money at.
Edit: and the only sympathy I have for SOE customers is for those that are ignorant of SOE's poor business practices, which have come to light these last few months, but after all this press, if you're still shoveling money at them, you deserve your information to be stolen for being stupid LOL.
If those hackers chose not to reveal the private and confidential information of SOE's customers, they would have scored much more "significant victory" over SOE, and almost effectively be at best, branded as vigilantes.
Whenever you are really bored and don't wanna play an MMO game, go to: http://librivox.org/
If those hackers chose not to reveal the private and confidential information of SOE's customers, they would have scored much more "significant victory" over SOE, and almost effectively be at best, branded as vigilantes.
I dunno, if they hadn't revealed it, I gaurantee you Sony would have swept it under the rug, along with the governments.
Personally I think they deserved it. Going after someone for allowing people to unlock their own property is ridiculous.
I'm going to sell a house to someone, but I'm going to keep the garage locked, because *gasp* some people on the planet have done illegal things in their garages before. I mean come on, just because they have the money and power to manipulate the laws of America, doesn't change the fact that they're abusing the freedoms of those who would uphold some sort of morals with their gaming.
Also, if you're going to say you're untouchable you deserve to have your face rubbed in the mud for the simple fact that you're arrogant and dilluded.
As far as the colateral damage of customers. I think in the long run it can be compared to war against a malicious government. Sure when you over through a dictator, sometimes the people suffer for it, but in the end they are taken out of the mess they had been forced to live in by a group of people that placed them into slavery. I hope the hackers shake loose some of these 'innocent' people that still seem to cling to some dillusion that SOE is a company they should keep throwing money at.
Edit: and the only sympathy I have for SOE customers is for those that are ignorant of SOE's poor business practices, which have come to light these last few months, but after all this press, if you're still shoveling money at them, you deserve your information to be stolen for being stupid LOL.
as long as the cc info is encrypted who cares as long as youc hange your pass when it happens
If those hackers chose not to reveal the private and confidential information of SOE's customers, they would have scored much more "significant victory" over SOE, and almost effectively be at best, branded as vigilantes.
I dunno, if they hadn't revealed it, I gaurantee you Sony would have swept it under the rug, along with the governments.
Following up on my post and your reply, they could always choose to reveal other information (email transactions, information archives) that they have acquired from their hacking exploits. And that really is the lesser evil. This is my original point.
By leaving out the option of posting the customer's details online, they would be at best branded as vigilantes. Questionable, but the damage is limited only to SOE.
I believe that the hackers are intelligent enough to mine and gather other important corporate data from SOE.
Whenever you are really bored and don't wanna play an MMO game, go to: http://librivox.org/
Edit: and the only sympathy I have for SOE customers is for those that are ignorant of SOE's poor business practices, which have come to light these last few months, but after all this press, if you're still shoveling money at them, you deserve your information to be stolen for being stupid LOL.
From what I gathered, those customers who were hit had nothing to do with SOE. It's about Sony, Sony is a hell of a lot bigger than just SOE and has all kinds of consumer products and divisions and subcompanies that have nothing at all to do with SOE.
So we're not talking 'SOE customers' here but 'Sony customers', regular folks that use Sony products that have little at all to do with SOE, nor are those folks aware of a completely different branch of Sony like SOE is one.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I'm going to sell a house to someone, but I'm going to keep the garage locked, because *gasp* some people on the planet have done illegal things in their garages before. I mean come on, just because they have the money and power to manipulate the laws of America, doesn't change the fact that they're abusing the freedoms of those who would uphold some sort of morals with their gaming.
Well that depends on what angle you're looking at this from. First it did suck when they took away the ability to use other os's on the PS3. However just as with DRM plans in PC gaming, hackers and software pirates have forced companies hands on the matter. People were using the given ability to pirate software, while I may not agree with Sony's response; I fail to see how else they could combat the issue. Even their fix was countered, so they took that person to court and settled with him.
This is why no matter what SOE/Sony have done, I loathe hackers and pirates more. Its' their criminal behavior that ruins shit for everyone.
As for your analogy it would be more like renting your house to someone, and that person continually stole the copper piping, appliances and anything else of value all for his own personal gain.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
SOE didn't feel sorry for me when they switched their game with the NGE so why should I ever feel sorry for them for any reason (other than loss of life).
I took the privilege to shorten the quote to what I think it's really about, the rest of your comments I already reacted upon in my own PM reply. Basically it sounds like you're ok that SOE or even the larger company Sony got damaged or if possible even destroyed, because they hurt your gaming fun back in the days with SWG.
In fact, from reading your comments you're ok if hackers went so far and attacked other companies that hurt your gaming fun in some way. Maybe even those (gaming) companies that didn't hurt you but that behaved in a samelike way to their customers like maybe an Activision, EA, Cryptic, Funcom, Square Enix or NCSoft, but you'll probably feel less emotionally attached towards the punishment of those if you yourself weren't hurt by them. The principle however is that you'd agree with it if hackers would assault others companies like that in the same way to make their point. Am I correct?
Here's where I agree to disagree
No, you aren't correct. You are making assumptions based on the things you want to cherry pick from what I stated. THe fact that I disagreed with you about how logical their actions were to achieve the desired result (for which in PM you later agreed that it was indeed logical to achieve the result they wanted) has caused you to put me on the other side and against you and thus to try to contort my words and paint me in the most negative, "on the side of hackers" light you can. Which is an emotional response and not a logical response to the verbatim initial comment I made about their (hacker) actions.
1) I have said that I find it funny that Sony/SOE got damaged in this way. I don't feel bad for them at all.
2) I have said I do feel bad for the customers affected, though they should have known something like this with this specific comapny could/would happen.
3) I have said I don't condone the actions of the hackers. I have also not stated I was "ok" with anything you wrote in the second paragraph above. You infer way too much, Maverick, which gets you really confused. You should try asking a specific point before assuming that the other person is of that opinion.
But again, none of this has anything to do with what I initially responded to your comments about which was that the hackers did what they logically had to do to get the most negative effect against Sony/SOE. All of this other talk about morals, right and wrong against the company and such has nothing to do with their attack not being "insane logic" as you put it and as I disagree. It was very much "sane logic" to accomplish the goals they wanted.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Like someone said ..this is Sony. Not just SOE but the entire Sony corporation. This database could have been full of warranty information for Sony Vaio laptops for all we know. Yes..Sony needs to buckledown and examine and change things throughout all their divisions.
Even more importantly...these Fuggin ..piece of shit hackers need to be caught and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. They are obviously singling out Sony for some dumb arsed reason. Serious jailtime for these fuggers...not just a fine...slap on the wrist and then let them go off to compose Nerdcore albums about their bullshit. Sony should be held responsible for their faults....true...but the hackers need to spend time in prison and when released ..forbidden any internet accessing technology for the remainder of their lives...under federal penalty of law.
2) I have said I do feel bad for the customers affected, though they should have known something like this with this specific comapny could/would happen.
Here's the thing though, most people don't know something like that. They don't know about Sony's shady practices and they don't care to know. Some of those victimized were merely sweepstakes entries, why would they know about stuff like this going down? Why would they care to know? The average person doesn't think about database security, they read that their info is safe and hit "I agree".
Sony in many homes across the world is a decent brand name, TBH I've had a Sony VCR for almost 20 years now, works as good as the day it was bought. I still have my first PS2, works fine. Can't say the same about my first Xbox 360, or XBox. Hell I can't say the same for most electronics I've owned. I just have the luxury of knowledge about SOE, and Sony's shady marketing practices.
Again though on a case to case basis, you're going to find a decent chunk of the populace thinks Sony is a trusted brand.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Like someone said ..this is Sony. Not just SOE but the entire Sony corporation. This database could have been full of warranty information for Sony Vaio laptops for all we know. Yes..Sony needs to buckledown and examine and change things throughout all their divisions.
Even more importantly...these Fuggin ..piece of shit hackers need to be caught and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. They are obviously singling out Sony for some dumb arsed reason. Serious jailtime for these fuggers...not just a fine...slap on the wrist and then let them go off to compose Nerdcore albums about their bullshit. Sony should be held responsible for their faults....true...but the hackers need to spend time in prison and when released ..forbidden any internet accessing technology for the remainder of their lives...under federal penalty of law.
Maybe your eyes are "obviously" singling them out. They attacked PBS and Fox as well.
As for putting them in jail, I agree, as long as Sony goes with them.
You can't trust X-box neither, they kicked 1million + users who had there systems hacked with free games. The real question is "we need a super new platform console gaming mechine or is this the end of console gaming. Probably they will make everything super cheap who knows. Technology is faster than ever, pc's run faster than, more highly developed programs, consoles don't have a chance. From experience I had a friend with a hacked Nintendo DS with 4 games in a small memory chip. So there... console games are free in the hidden internet pirate markets.
Like someone said ..this is Sony. Not just SOE but the entire Sony corporation. This database could have been full of warranty information for Sony Vaio laptops for all we know. Yes..Sony needs to buckledown and examine and change things throughout all their divisions.
Even more importantly...these Fuggin ..piece of shit hackers need to be caught and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. They are obviously singling out Sony for some dumb arsed reason. Serious jailtime for these fuggers...not just a fine...slap on the wrist and then let them go off to compose Nerdcore albums about their bullshit. Sony should be held responsible for their faults....true...but the hackers need to spend time in prison and when released ..forbidden any internet accessing technology for the remainder of their lives...under federal penalty of law.
Maybe your eyes are "obviously" singling them out. They attacked PBS and Fox as well.
As for putting them in jail, I agree, as long as Sony goes with them.
Wow..PBS and FOX were also repeatedly attacked. Thought it was just once by these same arseholes.. As for Sony ...jailtime?....they are negligent...no doubt about it....but they are not criminally negligent. They should pay fines up the arse for sure...and have to propose plans for new security and safeguards before a federal (hell ..international even) board for approval. However "criminal" people might think Sony is because of these events (and , let's face it, because one division ..SOE...fugged up a Star Wars game almost a decade ago and setup cash shops in their other games)...the entire company is not deserving of a jail sentence because their IT security guys suck. Fire those guys ...all of them...... up the entire IT ladder ..across the board in every division ...hire some people that give a shit.
2) I have said I do feel bad for the customers affected, though they should have known something like this with this specific comapny could/would happen.
Here's the thing though, those customers that were hit had nothing to do with an SOE that many MMO gamers here (of which the majority of that group would be old SWG pre-NGE gamers) seem to hate, but had contact with completely different companies of Sony and Sony products. And as Malickie already said, those other divisions and those products have no link in any way with SOE, many Sony products like recorders and tv screens and Playstation consoles and such are wellknown and appreciated in lots of households. So why should they have been distrustful towards Sony?
But again, none of this has anything to do with what I initially responded to your comments about which was that the hackers did what they logically had to do to get the most negative effect against Sony/SOE. All of this other talk about morals, right and wrong against the company and such has nothing to do with their attack not being "insane logic" as you put it and as I disagree. It was very much "sane logic" to accomplish the goals they wanted.
Take a look at your earlier posts: at one side you were defending the hackers' actions (note, not the hackers but their approach) because it made perfect sense logically, at the other side you professed to be happy that it happened to Sony bc of your SWG experience with them and (partially) not feeling that bad for the people affected since they according to you should have known better than using Sony products, which is clearly not a logical stance towards the situation but an emotional one. Hence the long debate about this.
Anyway, your later posts cleared up any obscurity or confusion I might have regarding your viewpoint, so thanks for that, it helped make things clear to me. Not that I agree with it all, in fact with some of your stances I firmly disagree.
At this point I fear our discussion will turn into nothing but a rehash of former arguments, so I'm going to leave it at this
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You can't trust X-box neither, they kicked 1million + users who had there systems hacked with free games. The real question is "we need a super new platform console gaming mechine or is this the end of console gaming. Probably they will make everything super cheap who knows. Technology is faster than ever, pc's run faster than, more highly developed programs, consoles don't have a chance. From experience I had a friend with a hacked Nintendo DS with 4 games in a small memory chip. So there... console games are free in the hidden internet pirate markets.
Banning modified consoles from Xbox Live is perfectly acceptable. Microsoft has the right to demand that every console connected to their network is unmodified.
Difference with Sony is that not only do they want you to stay disconnected from their network but they don't want you to mod or own a modified console in the first place. Sure MS don't want it either, but they don't go on a manhunt.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Comments
George Hotz is not a kid. he is 21 years old and knew full well what he was doing is illegal. he just didnt think he would be called out on it like that. Was sony wrong in requesting those IP addresses? It was an ill thought out scare tactic. Its not like they were going to do anything with them. What could they do with them? Watching a youtube video is not equal to hacking your ps3. But this image of big bad corporation going after this innocent little kid is absurd.http://www.tqcast.com/2010/07/13/so-much-for-hacking-the-ps3-ps3-remains-unhackable/
http://n4g.com/news/717835/ps3-firmware-3-60-unhackable/com
http://playstationlifestyle.net/2010/07/14/geohot-retiring-ps3-will-remain-unhackable/
These are just a few, you can search google and just see a slew of it, Sony originally said all their stuff was unhackable, and that was when all of this started, since then they've changed their tune, but once you opwn pandoras box its kinda hard to close, surprizing that.
P.S. I understand your worry about your infomation being leaked and the chances of finacial fraud, if you have any of this information stored with Sony, I would remove it and change it, if you not sure and really worried, I'd get a new card, Banks do it pretty willingly. Personally any company that makes me keep my Credit Card information, or Address information on their site doesnt get my business, Square Enix used to be the worst about this. Giving them the information to pay for something and then immediatly removing it is what you want to be doing in any situation where you paying Online.
Mess with the best, Die like the rest
Guess Sony wasn't using any of that money for improving their network and security. Fail, thanks again Sony.
Is it right, no. Did they get what was coming to them, yes. I for one am glad that there are people that can cripple mega corporations. It would be a scary world without them. It's about time someone Fight clubbed the U.S. and Chinese Governments (insert any other ridculous "righteous" government i.e. Iran, Sudan, North Korea, Israel, Yemen) for all the crap they pull
People still fail to see big picture. The big picture is this: Sony is a company may be hurt. But the high ranking employees will still have jobs if Sony crumbles. No one important is getting hurt here. Only customers. Because Sony took legal action against someone that was doing something illegal.Meanwhile im chilling as i never use real data, its kinda funny also. People buttmad cause data got "openly" out while its normal to accept agbs that often permit trading personal data forth.
Pi*1337/100 = 42
It's actually more complicated than that. Sony changed the end user agreement for the Playstation and someone figured out how to make the Playstation act the way it originally did. They then took legal action against him for telling people how to make the Playstation work the way it originally did under the end user agreement the Playstation was purchased under. In that perspective, I have to disagree with Sony. When you buy something under a certain agreement and the company changes that agreement AFTER the fact, you should not be bound by the new terms if you do not agree to them.
Sony, how the mighty have fallen. Maybe I will not get my Vaio laptop fixed and switch to another company after all.
Ho come on dude George Hotz showed to Sony how he broke thier PS3 with the purpose to get some job from them (at least what he claim when he delivered the info), and the guys at Sony decided to sue him... Nice.
As if they couldn't just get him a job... I mean its not like they would have loose something really, the guy is a kind of genius; some poeple tryed to break the ps3 for years already.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hotz
I took the privilege to shorten the quote to what I think it's really about, the rest of your comments I already reacted upon in my own PM reply. Basically it sounds like you're ok that SOE or even the larger company Sony got damaged or if possible even destroyed, because they hurt your gaming fun back in the days with SWG.
In fact, from reading your comments you're ok if hackers went so far and attacked other companies that hurt your gaming fun in some way. Maybe even those (gaming) companies that didn't hurt you but that behaved in a samelike way to their customers like maybe an Activision, EA, Cryptic, Funcom, Square Enix or NCSoft, but you'll probably feel less emotionally attached towards the punishment of those if you yourself weren't hurt by them. The principle however is that you'd agree with it if hackers would assault others companies like that in the same way to make their point. Am I correct?
Here's where I agree to disagree
This.
I think there are 2 separate things in this here. First you have the hackers who started attacking to send a message: that message is 'if you attack 1 of our own, we will come after you and destroy you and we will show you the power we have'. THAT is the message that they wanted to send out, to any company who dares to even attempt to go after them. A message of fear. While I strongly disagree with how some companies do their business, I equally dislike a group of hackers running rampant for the lolz of it with no regard for which other internet users they damage in the process. It sounds like a group of joyriders that have great fun riding over the boulevards no matter who they run over in the process.
The second thing is that some people here are completely ok with what these hackers did and even gleeful about it, because they feel Sony deserves it.
And from what I gather from reading the many comments on this site, this cheering on isn't for some noble reason like that the company might destroy people's lives with their actions in third world countries or such, but for a very simple and basic reason, namely that SOE (not even Sony as overall company) hurt their gaming fun with SWG 6 years ago, after which their grievance and witch hunt towards SOE or Sony started. And apparently, to some, was never let go of that hatred or grudge.
For as far as I see it, 1 simple, almost trivial after 6 years, act namely that SOE changed the gameplay in a game they made.
At least, this is the argument that I see people give most as reason why Sony deserves it, so apparently this is the most important reason to them why people wish any misfortune on Sony even if it's something where 1 million and more people and their private information are struck as collateral damage.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Personally I think they deserved it. Going after someone for allowing people to unlock their own property is ridiculous.
I'm going to sell a house to someone, but I'm going to keep the garage locked, because *gasp* some people on the planet have done illegal things in their garages before. I mean come on, just because they have the money and power to manipulate the laws of America, doesn't change the fact that they're abusing the freedoms of those who would uphold some sort of morals with their gaming.
Also, if you're going to say you're untouchable you deserve to have your face rubbed in the mud for the simple fact that you're arrogant and dilluded.
As far as the colateral damage of customers. I think in the long run it can be compared to war against a malicious government. Sure when you over through a dictator, sometimes the people suffer for it, but in the end they are taken out of the mess they had been forced to live in by a group of people that placed them into slavery. I hope the hackers shake loose some of these 'innocent' people that still seem to cling to some dillusion that SOE is a company they should keep throwing money at.
Edit: and the only sympathy I have for SOE customers is for those that are ignorant of SOE's poor business practices, which have come to light these last few months, but after all this press, if you're still shoveling money at them, you deserve your information to be stolen for being stupid LOL.
If those hackers chose not to reveal the private and confidential information of SOE's customers, they would have scored much more "significant victory" over SOE, and almost effectively be at best, branded as vigilantes.
Whenever you are really bored and don't wanna play an MMO game, go to: http://librivox.org/
Hey hey hey heeeeeeeeeeeyyyyy.......
I dunno, if they hadn't revealed it, I gaurantee you Sony would have swept it under the rug, along with the governments.
as long as the cc info is encrypted who cares as long as youc hange your pass when it happens
Following up on my post and your reply, they could always choose to reveal other information (email transactions, information archives) that they have acquired from their hacking exploits. And that really is the lesser evil. This is my original point.
By leaving out the option of posting the customer's details online, they would be at best branded as vigilantes. Questionable, but the damage is limited only to SOE.
I believe that the hackers are intelligent enough to mine and gather other important corporate data from SOE.
Whenever you are really bored and don't wanna play an MMO game, go to: http://librivox.org/
Hey hey hey heeeeeeeeeeeyyyyy.......
From what I gathered, those customers who were hit had nothing to do with SOE. It's about Sony, Sony is a hell of a lot bigger than just SOE and has all kinds of consumer products and divisions and subcompanies that have nothing at all to do with SOE.
So we're not talking 'SOE customers' here but 'Sony customers', regular folks that use Sony products that have little at all to do with SOE, nor are those folks aware of a completely different branch of Sony like SOE is one.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Well that depends on what angle you're looking at this from. First it did suck when they took away the ability to use other os's on the PS3. However just as with DRM plans in PC gaming, hackers and software pirates have forced companies hands on the matter. People were using the given ability to pirate software, while I may not agree with Sony's response; I fail to see how else they could combat the issue. Even their fix was countered, so they took that person to court and settled with him.
This is why no matter what SOE/Sony have done, I loathe hackers and pirates more. Its' their criminal behavior that ruins shit for everyone.
As for your analogy it would be more like renting your house to someone, and that person continually stole the copper piping, appliances and anything else of value all for his own personal gain.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
No, you aren't correct. You are making assumptions based on the things you want to cherry pick from what I stated. THe fact that I disagreed with you about how logical their actions were to achieve the desired result (for which in PM you later agreed that it was indeed logical to achieve the result they wanted) has caused you to put me on the other side and against you and thus to try to contort my words and paint me in the most negative, "on the side of hackers" light you can. Which is an emotional response and not a logical response to the verbatim initial comment I made about their (hacker) actions.
1) I have said that I find it funny that Sony/SOE got damaged in this way. I don't feel bad for them at all.
2) I have said I do feel bad for the customers affected, though they should have known something like this with this specific comapny could/would happen.
3) I have said I don't condone the actions of the hackers. I have also not stated I was "ok" with anything you wrote in the second paragraph above. You infer way too much, Maverick, which gets you really confused. You should try asking a specific point before assuming that the other person is of that opinion.
But again, none of this has anything to do with what I initially responded to your comments about which was that the hackers did what they logically had to do to get the most negative effect against Sony/SOE. All of this other talk about morals, right and wrong against the company and such has nothing to do with their attack not being "insane logic" as you put it and as I disagree. It was very much "sane logic" to accomplish the goals they wanted.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Like someone said ..this is Sony. Not just SOE but the entire Sony corporation. This database could have been full of warranty information for Sony Vaio laptops for all we know. Yes..Sony needs to buckledown and examine and change things throughout all their divisions.
Even more importantly...these Fuggin ..piece of shit hackers need to be caught and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. They are obviously singling out Sony for some dumb arsed reason. Serious jailtime for these fuggers...not just a fine...slap on the wrist and then let them go off to compose Nerdcore albums about their bullshit. Sony should be held responsible for their faults....true...but the hackers need to spend time in prison and when released ..forbidden any internet accessing technology for the remainder of their lives...under federal penalty of law.
Here's the thing though, most people don't know something like that. They don't know about Sony's shady practices and they don't care to know. Some of those victimized were merely sweepstakes entries, why would they know about stuff like this going down? Why would they care to know? The average person doesn't think about database security, they read that their info is safe and hit "I agree".
Sony in many homes across the world is a decent brand name, TBH I've had a Sony VCR for almost 20 years now, works as good as the day it was bought. I still have my first PS2, works fine. Can't say the same about my first Xbox 360, or XBox. Hell I can't say the same for most electronics I've owned. I just have the luxury of knowledge about SOE, and Sony's shady marketing practices.
Again though on a case to case basis, you're going to find a decent chunk of the populace thinks Sony is a trusted brand.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Maybe your eyes are "obviously" singling them out. They attacked PBS and Fox as well.
As for putting them in jail, I agree, as long as Sony goes with them.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
You can't trust X-box neither, they kicked 1million + users who had there systems hacked with free games. The real question is "we need a super new platform console gaming mechine or is this the end of console gaming. Probably they will make everything super cheap who knows. Technology is faster than ever, pc's run faster than, more highly developed programs, consoles don't have a chance. From experience I had a friend with a hacked Nintendo DS with 4 games in a small memory chip. So there... console games are free in the hidden internet pirate markets.
Wow..PBS and FOX were also repeatedly attacked. Thought it was just once by these same arseholes.. As for Sony ...jailtime?....they are negligent...no doubt about it....but they are not criminally negligent. They should pay fines up the arse for sure...and have to propose plans for new security and safeguards before a federal (hell ..international even) board for approval. However "criminal" people might think Sony is because of these events (and , let's face it, because one division ..SOE...fugged up a Star Wars game almost a decade ago and setup cash shops in their other games)...the entire company is not deserving of a jail sentence because their IT security guys suck. Fire those guys ...all of them...... up the entire IT ladder ..across the board in every division ...hire some people that give a shit.
Take a look at your earlier posts: at one side you were defending the hackers' actions (note, not the hackers but their approach) because it made perfect sense logically, at the other side you professed to be happy that it happened to Sony bc of your SWG experience with them and (partially) not feeling that bad for the people affected since they according to you should have known better than using Sony products, which is clearly not a logical stance towards the situation but an emotional one. Hence the long debate about this.
Anyway, your later posts cleared up any obscurity or confusion I might have regarding your viewpoint, so thanks for that, it helped make things clear to me. Not that I agree with it all, in fact with some of your stances I firmly disagree.
At this point I fear our discussion will turn into nothing but a rehash of former arguments, so I'm going to leave it at this
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Banning modified consoles from Xbox Live is perfectly acceptable. Microsoft has the right to demand that every console connected to their network is unmodified.
Difference with Sony is that not only do they want you to stay disconnected from their network but they don't want you to mod or own a modified console in the first place. Sure MS don't want it either, but they don't go on a manhunt.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky