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The leveling looks fun, but what about the end-game?
Neverdyne
Member Posts: 167
Don't get me wrong, I'm actually excited about TOR and have been waiting for it for a long time. I think the story element will help improve questing, which will hopefully make leveling fun. And the flashpoints with story embbed in them promise to make that first run quite interesting. What I'm a little afraid about is the end-game.
Has Bioware hinted anything about end-game other than raids and dungeons? I'm just afraid it will be too similar to WoW, as in standing around the main city waiting for the dungeon / BG queue to pop up for the 1000th time to keep grinding for gear. This type of gameplay was fine for 3-4 years, but after 6 years of it I'm royally sick of dungeon grinding and having no purpose to go outside the main city, treating the game basically as a lobby. I know many people won't stick for long if this is how the end-game will be, evidence of it is Rift. Many players leveled up to find the exact same thing, and just quit; not because that style of gameplay is "bad", but because it's already burned after years of playing WoW.
Comments
bioware had hinted at something different for end game that they say no one has ever done before quite some time ago however we haven't heard anything about it. so who knows if what they were planning will even make it into the game. hopefully we will learn more over the next few days since they are suppose to be talking endgame type stuff at E3 but wouldn't get my hopes to high. they may just talk about raids
I don't think we have to worry too much about that, from what I have heard. I'm sure others will answer this better in time.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
I haven't seen anything definitive... maybe they'll say something at E3 (this week?)
Personally, end game for me will be playing another class. In other MMO's this has never held much appeal since I was always stuck running the same content/quests, just with a different character. But BioWare has said that each class gets its own epic story and series of unique class quests, so that'll make replayability awesome (for me).
These are my thoughts exactly. This game has so much replayability because of the story that it will be a long time before I worry about end game. Regardless, I do hope they do something different other then endless gear raids...but very little info has been released so far. Hopefully E3 will change that :-)
There Is Always Hope!
Agreed.
Also, I just remembered, there MAY be a reason to play each class multiple times - i.e. taking the light side vs. dark side path. Though with 8 classes to choose from, that implies playing the game all the way through 16 times, and I doubt I'll have that much energy!
MMOs like this don't have open-ended endgame-content. Once you've hit max-level and fully equipped your toon, you either reroll another class or hop into the battlegrounds.
Nevertheless, this game will be fun for a few month from what I've seen so far, but it won't keep me playing for years. Maybe I'll be back now and then, when there's big content-updates... just like I've done it in WoW. It's really an on-off-system with themepark MMOs.
BioWare has announced the so-called "Operations", which are some kind of raids. Then you've got Flashpoints, Warzones, extensive crafting and I believe that the story doesn't stop at max level, although Alot could easily be completely wrong.
There have been two features about PvP.
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/feature/5202/PvP-Interview.html
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/feature/5198/PvP-HandsOn-Preview.html
and it looks very interesting
lol, plus you may have to open two accounts since they will probably limit you to 8 choices :-)
There Is Always Hope!
Start with this video.
Move to this interview.
TLDR: You'll get some answers on "Operations" (Bioware term for raids) at E3.
That's pretty much how PvP is done in WoW. The only way it could be different is if they reward killing players outside battlegrounds, which I hope they do so I'll have a reason to get out into the world. This AAA games need to get a little more risky and rise open world PvP to be as effective as battlegrounds, in my opinion.
From what I read about Operations, they are basically raids with story. This has potential, and could be a lot of fun. But then again this doesn't give me any motivation to go out into the open world. Let's just hope end game doesn't diminish the game into a lobby with instanced rooms.
Replayability...speaking of, any word on number of characters per server they will allow?
Sadly the core of this game is not PvP thank god!!!!!
A lot of people will enjoy this game immensely because of the vast ammounts of content and vast worlds; For people who wish to immerse themselves in a fun game we will have years of content.
The game is developed to suit RPG elements small groups for more tactical immersion and fun; And other than factional fighting we will have PvE servers so the World and IP can be enjoyed not ruined by spoilt brats exploiting and game mechanic they can.
End Game is a Bad Design point for Lazy developers their is no need for it.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
they havent decided yet but they have said 8 sounds like a good number
edit: there is actually a picture from the UK event back in april that shows charcter select screen and appears to have 8 slots. but still subject to change
http://media.dhcdn.com/2011/04/4555/ukev3.jpg
http://darthhater.com/2011/04/05/uk-press-fan-event-tonight/
edit 2: found the dev quote
GeorgZoeller
Joined: May 2010
04.28.2011 , 11:26 AM
Yes, you will be able to have multiple characters per account per server. 8 seems like a good number, but that's not definite yet.
Georg "Observer" Zoeller
Principal Lead Combat Designer
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6231324#edit6231324
End game not much of an issue for me as I would rather just reroll than get on another raid treadmill.
It's fine if you like that style of gameplay, we all have our personal taste. But don't generalize players; not everyone who wishes open world PvP is a "griefer", "exploiter", etc. Firstly, you can't really say "we will have PvE servers so the World and IP can be enjoyed not ruined", since, to be true to Star Wars IP, you would actually need open world PvP. Do you honestly think siths and jedis could be happily running around alongside each other minding their own business? Specially on an open war? PvE servers are against the lore in this case.
Secondly, open world PvP is completely different from instanced battlegrounds. From someone who was there on the whole Southshore vs. Tarren Mill experience, I can tell you massive open PvP is very fun. But the problem is, if there's no incentive, then it won't happen; because people go to wherever the loot is.
Thirdly, end-game is actually needed in MMOs because, well, people reach the maximum level. Not everyone is content with leveling up alts constantly, some people actually want to do more with their main character. What would you propose those people to do if there is no end-game? It defeats the purpose of an MMO, since then you can actually "finish" the game and be done with it. It also defeats the purpose of a subscription.
What I didn't see is whether these are end game or not. Raids can be during the leveling process.
There Is Always Hope!
from the interview:
Additionally, players will be able to enjoy operations as soon as they hit level 50. There will be varying difficulty modes, much like what is found in other BioWare games. The challenge, mechanics, and rewards will vary with the modes. So both the casual and hardcore player will be able to enjoy epic content alongside multiple groups of friends.
and lvl cap has been confirmed as 50
regarding open world pvp, here is what we know so far:
http://darthhater.com/2011/05/05/fan-site-summit-gabe-amatangelo-interview/
Gabe Amatangelo: I want to touch on open world PvP. We're going to have PvP servers, and on the PvE servers there will be designated PvP areas. On a PvE server, you aren't going to flag unless you want to flag yourself, or unless you go into a designated PvP area that is going to be completely isolated from quests and story lines and that kind of stuff. Now, we're not talking about the goals inside those areas today, but we are saying that it is there. People can go and fight each other there.
Are these Open World PvP areas guild- or faction-based?
We're not talking about the goals of those areas. I know Darth Hater and all the people who follow you are really group conscious. You guys are guilds. We want to do everything we can to accommodate that type of game play.
Today we're focusing on a few systems that we haven't talked about before. The focus of them is promoting a good, healthy PvP community and allowing players to play the role they want in PvP. There are a number of systems that roll into those two points.
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/feature/5202/PvP-Interview.html
On the subject of PvP servers, what are your current plans for PvP servers?
We have plans for PvP and PvE servers, as I mentioned even on PvE servers there will be zones that are flagged as PvP, but it's a pretty simple traditional solution here, and we'll see how that works out. But it's a traditional PvP and PvE server, no word on whether we're going to have role-playing server and RP-PvP servers; it's a popular request from fans, we'll see.
Can you say if players can fight everywhere on PvP servers?
No, there is limits. Actually, in one of our builds there was no limit and it was pretty ugly. Players will be players and we had to go in there and police because they were griefing each other on Nar Shaddaa, which is one of the planets where you really get together, and the guard mechanic was not there, and by guard I mean actual guards that protect you at critical points, and it was pretty ugly, people we're killing each other at taxis, and it was fun, but it really impacted the playstyle for some people.
I know people are like, "It's a PvP server! You signed up for it!" but there's a core minimum that we want to maintain. But we do like that there is a concept of making the other side miserable when you are well organized and so on, it's a balance. There will be zones that are safe, there are zones that are naturally safe because you don't tend to go there, well, I won't say more about that, nevermind.
What forms of PvP are available in Star Wars: The Old Republic?
Well, we have announced two. There are only two. There are the warzones, that you have actually tried today, which is a very codified engagement, because we wanted it to be fair, so 8 vs. 8, objective, very clear, we show you what you're supposed to do and we're going to reward you based on whether you complete the objectives. There is much more reward for the team that wins than the team that doesn't win. Very team oriented gameplay, that's one.
Another one is a kind of PvP that naturally occurs when people don't like each other meet somewhere on the planet. Traditional, really. We did do a few change to the traditional formula, even on a PvE server, because we have PvP and PvE servers, and some people on PvE servers don't want to be subjected to PvP, we have a zone we're going to mark as, "There will be PvP. Beware." It's a dangerous place; you don't have to go there, I mean you will have a way to skirt it, but we want that kind of engagement to be there.
There's a third one, which is just dueling. You can turn towards a friend or stranger and duel them, and that's another form that is in the game right now.
we have heard a little about contestables areas and things like that but they havent really talked much about it
It would be great to have contestable areas with objectives, whose sole purpose is PvP. That way the PvE crowd are not forced into PvP, and the PvP crowd get their fix. Here's just hoping it isn't a timed event like in WoW's Tol Barad, and that it rewards players as much as battlegrounds do; so it becomes a matter of choice, and not a matter of "wasting time here" or "getting loot there".