Im looking at the next few years of mmos being launched and this is what I see:
The Secret World
ArcheAge
Blade & Soul
Tera
Guild Wars 2
Star Wars: The Old Republic
World of Darkness
Dust 514/EvE
Undead Lab's Zombie mmos
I look at that list and I see rich selection of unique settings, combat styles, quest systems, end game options, social dynamics, and art direction. If you cant find something you like out of that list, Id say this genre is not for you.
I have yet to see any footage that GW will be anything other than WoW with new controls, but the B2P option makes it so damn tempting. You do know that Failcom is developing The Secret World?
Typical un-informed gamer who parrots everything he hears over some ass halfed blog. GW2 is about as close to WoW as it is to the Monopoly board game.
GW2 has not one iota of the typical WoW game feature except they are both an MMO. If you want a WoW clone look at SWToR.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Originally posted by SaintViktor I think we can be but that is clearly up to the developers on how successful they can be. I think GW2 followed by Dust 514 and Defiance can lead the way. They all are innovative especially Dust 514 and they can bring certain elements to the mmo genre that it certaily lacks right now. Some devs are content with making the next Everquest others want to innovate. I'll stick with the innovaters because I'm tired of the old tradional mmo.
This is a good example of why Im optimistic. Even the people who hate everything about current mmos are looking forward to multiple titles. And the people who love current mmos have many titles to look forward to as well.
I think this time around is different than the WAR, AoC, Aion fiasco for a couple of reasons. For one, those games are all sword and sorcerer settings. Second, most of these new games are starting to cautiously step out of the box, whether its a skill system instead of classes, dynamic events, political systems, fps ground game blended with space strategy, survival horror, or a crafting system thats worthy of its own endgame.
I remain cautiously optimistic about the future of MMOs. The biggest accomplishment this new lineup of mmos can have is that they all find their target audience and achieve success.
Sure Id love nothing more than for the genre to pick up where it left off 8 years ago and create virtual worlds from the ground up. But we have to be realistic. WoW sent a shockwave through the mmo market and we are just now getting to the light at the end of the tunnel. We are just now seeing big budget mmos taking risks again. Sure they may not be the risks we would like them to take, but they are taking risks nonetheless and I hope they are rewarded for their efforts.
We, as mmo fans should be rallying behind any dev who does anything different in their mmo. Even if 99% of their game is same ol same ol, that 1% that is different should be recognized by the community, IMO.
I dont think you will ever find another anomaly like EQ1 in this genre again.(sorry i dont see GW2 being something that groundbreaking) as for WoW, that was more or less destined due to so many different factors.
IF Bioware plays their cards right, they are the ONLY one in the current generation MMO that stands a chance aginst WoW. HOWEVER... I'm starting to see the EA influence clawing at the foundation of bioware with their release of DA2... maybe thats the reason they pushed ME3 back so they can "safely" release ToR w/o gamers seeing more examples of that EA influence?... if that is the case, the thinking is VERY short sighted and ToR WILL fail...
as for other games, Rift is likely as large as it's gonna be. fairly successful game, but really only a footnote in the genre. other games offer interesting distractions, but dont really have the oomph behind it to challenge the 800lb guerrilla in the jungle.
I have yet to see any footage that GW will be anything other than WoW with new controls, but the B2P option makes it so damn tempting. You do know that Failcom is developing The Secret World?
Typical un-informed gamer who parrots everything he hears over some ass halfed blog. GW2 is about as close to WoW as it is to the Monopoly board game.
GW2 has not one iota of the typical WoW game feature except they are both an MMO. If you want a WoW clone look at SWToR.
I'm sry dude but after posting this on the SWtor forums, you still have the impudence to call other ppl uninformed parrots and still think you have any credibility at all around here? Seriously...
Originally posted by Zylaxx
LOL The Old Republic. WoW in Space. Themepark Kiddie adventure.
I do honestly think it will come down to which game performs better between SWTOR and GW2.
If SWTOR becomes the next dominant game it will reinforce that the gaming populace is still very happy with the traditional design of MMOs and thus game design and development will reflect that moving forward.
If GW2 becomes the next dominant game it will show there is a strong desire to move forward in the very basic core elements of the genre as well as demonstrating a shift in the dominant business model.
And of course if neither game enjoys massive success, Blizzards behemoth will reign a while longer helping them fund what should be an amazing game in "Titan".
Fact of the matter is is that the games that have the biggest budget will be the games that get the most players to play them. This is EQ/WoW-styled games right now. Because of what World of Warcraft did in subscribers, the companies who have the most money consider it to be the safest financial risk to try to emulate World of Warcraft as closely as possible. They're too afraid to make any other game because it takes so much money.
Now, considering that SW:TOR is the most expensive MMORPG to-date, its possible failure would rattle the industry and cause companies who're thinking of making an MMO to realize that copying World of Warcraft is clearly a bad idea.
And there's your change.
Heh, yeah, I fully understand your (I said 'your' but you're not the only one who thinks like this) reasoning in this, believe me. That's why I readlly, really hope that SWTOR will be a huge, major succes so that it can be flaunted around especially on this site over and over and over again.
And then I hope that GW2 will be a major success too and ArcheAge and The Secret World be solid, good successes so that maybe at least some WoW-style themepark haters and sandbox lovers on these forums finally, finally realise that success of the type of MMO's they like doesn't require the destruction of all other kinds of MMO's that aren't to their taste but that might be liked by other MMO gamers.
So that finally the level of imo snobist-like intolerance of (some) sandbox fans/themepark haters on these forums tones down to less extremist and more moderate levels. Maybe it's wishful thinking and too unrealistic that this'll happen, but I hope not
Originally posted by Belight
You know, most of your posts seem to revolve around how "sorry" you are for people who aren't "open minded" enough to enjoy these watered down shit MMOs that have been coming out lately. Like we are supposed to just swallow them and smile. However, to me it seems that you aren't sorry at all, in fact you seem to enjoy rubbing it in our faces that the sandbox side of things has been neglected, and you try to justify it with sales numbers.
(snips)
*Please don't take this post as too much of an attack against you, as I've seen you are always civil, and for that I respect your posts, I just don't exactly agree with them.
Thank you, I don't mind disagreeing opinions, when offering good arguments like you do I think it can lead to interesting discussions
In fact, I agree with a lot of your arguments: sandbox gameplay has a lot to offer, but not only sandbox gameplay, but also other gameplay elements that are different from typical sandbox or themepark gameplay features, it's the variety that is important. I even often say myself that in my opinion the best MMORPG's in the future will be those that successfully synergise sandbox design and themepark design and add something innovative in the mix to finish it.
Also, I don't wish for sandbox gameplay MMO's to be on the fringe nor do I want to 'rub it in the faces' of sandbox fans to just swallow and smile.But I do feel sorry for those who can't seem to enjoy the vast majority of MMO's out there anymore and can only enjoy them under very specific conditions, yet at the same time keep following MMO's for years in hope to find one that they can enjoy.
What I do object against though is the attitude of sometimes extremist intolerance - in my eyes - that some seem to have, who want all other MMORPG's to be failures only so that the type of MMO's they like (often the sandbox kind) can rise on the ashes of the destruction of the others. A kind of wishful thinking and hoping that leads them to campaigns of continuously bashing, criticizing and slandering those MMO's they dislike.
I mean, dislike some other MMORPG's all you like, but at least try to understand and accept that those MMORPG might offer something that other MMO gamers might like.
I mean, when ArcheAge and WoD and Undead Labs' MMO arrive, I'll be rooting just as much for them to be successes as I will for SWTOR, GW2, TSW and TERA, even if I might not have the time to play them all.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
There's no reason beyond better graphics, (sorry, more pixels, so as not to offend the one guy out there who will call Super Mario Brothers the most amazing graphical experience he's never seen.).
Most of what we're seeing , without naming names, is mostly what we've already seen. Calling Paladin a White Knight or calling a mage Mr. Boom-boom-hands does not a new game make.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
I think we can be but that is clearly up to the developers on how successful they can be. I think GW2 followed by Dust 514 and Defiance can lead the way. They all are innovative especially Dust 514 and they can bring certain elements to the mmo genre that it certaily lacks right now. Some devs are content with making the next Everquest others want to innovate. I'll stick with the innovaters because I'm tired of the old tradional mmo.
This is a good example of why Im optimistic. Even the people who hate everything about current mmos are looking forward to multiple titles. And the people who love current mmos have many titles to look forward to as well.
I think this time around is different than the WAR, AoC, Aion fiasco for a couple of reasons. For one, those games are all sword and sorcerer settings. Second, most of these new games are starting to cautiously step out of the box, whether its a skill system instead of classes, dynamic events, political systems, fps ground game blended with space strategy, survival horror, or a crafting system thats worthy of its own endgame.
I remain cautiously optimistic about the future of MMOs. The biggest accomplishment this new lineup of mmos can have is that they all find their target audience and achieve success.
Sure Id love nothing more than for the genre to pick up where it left off 8 years ago and create virtual worlds from the ground up. But we have to be realistic. WoW sent a shockwave through the mmo market and we are just now getting to the light at the end of the tunnel. We are just now seeing big budget mmos taking risks again. Sure they may not be the risks we would like them to take, but they are taking risks nonetheless and I hope they are rewarded for their efforts.
We, as mmo fans should be rallying behind any dev who does anything different in their mmo. Even if 99% of their game is same ol same ol, that 1% that is different should be recognized by the community, IMO.
The biggest thing for me is goign to be consoel mmos becayse I think they have a bright future if done right. Like Undead Labs zombie mmo, Dust 514, Turbine console mmo, Defiance and who knows what Blizzard is going to do. Lets hope for the best!
Long-term wise anyways the only game of that list that interests me is Arche Age. Everything else just seems more of the same.
I used to be on the bandwagon of TERA cause the combat looks so nice, but I seriously doubt its longevity along with most of the games on the list. But only time will tell I guess.
The biggest thing for me is goign to be consoel mmos becayse I think they have a bright future if done right. Like Undead Labs zombie mmo, Dust 514, Turbine console mmo, Defiance and who knows what Blizzard is going to do. Lets hope for the best!
I don't know, it seems like ruinous to chat, console MMO's, so global chat becomes improbable and to activate ts for any unfamiliar face you encounter seems like a bother.
But I don't know, maybe they've already found ways to make it work in MMO's, I don't know how exceptional the chat functions were in DCUO on console.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The biggest thing for me is goign to be consoel mmos becayse I think they have a bright future if done right. Like Undead Labs zombie mmo, Dust 514, Turbine console mmo, Defiance and who knows what Blizzard is going to do. Lets hope for the best!
I agree. PC MMOs in general have grown stale with lack of innovation. I'm looking forward to a bunch of console MMOs to move the genre in a different direction away from the 'WoW' clone.
The Undead Labs zombie MMO tops my list for MMOs I'm looking forward to. It's a persistent, open-world, sandbox MMO being developed by a proven group with Microsoft as publisher. When was the last time a proven PC developer & big publisher released a persistent, open-world sandbox MMO? PC developers/publishers seem afraid of the sub-genre. So this console game is very refresing for a very stale MMO market.
The Undead Labs zombie MMO tops my list for MMOs I'm looking forward to. It's a persistent, open-world, sandbox MMO being developed by a proven group with Microsoft as publisher. When was the last time a proven PC developer & big publisher released a persistent, open-world sandbox MMO? PC developers/publishers seem afraid of the sub-genre. So this console game is very refresing for a very stale MMO market.
? Did I miss something? I thought this was a fairly new company, Undead Labs. I have a great respect for Jeff Strain, but at this moment they're at the same stage as the Blizzard group of people that set out on their own to create Flagship Studios and Hellgate London: they were very talented and it was all very promising, but nothing is certain until the game arrives.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The Undead Labs zombie MMO tops my list for MMOs I'm looking forward to. It's a persistent, open-world, sandbox MMO being developed by a proven group with Microsoft as publisher. When was the last time a proven PC developer & big publisher released a persistent, open-world sandbox MMO? PC developers/publishers seem afraid of the sub-genre. So this console game is very refresing for a very stale MMO market.
? Did I miss something? I thought this was a fairly new company, Undead Labs. I have a great respect for Jeff Strain, but at this moment they're at the same stage as the Blizzard group of people that set out on their own to create Flagship Studios and Hellgate London: they were very talented and it was all very promising, but nothing is certain until the game arrives.
The employees are all proven MMO developers. He didn't hire a bunch of rookies. Jeff Strain stated he hired 14 ex-ArenaNet employees alone. There is an incredible amount of proven talent at Undead Labs. James Phinney's resume is as impressive as Strain's.
The team Strain created THAT fast is simply amazing. I've never seen a guy leave a company then almost instantly hire people of that caliber that fast.
The employees are all proven MMO developers. He didn't hire a bunch of rookies. Jeff Strain stated he hired 14 ex-ArenaNet employees alone. There is an incredible amount of proven talent at Undead Labs. James Phinney's resume is as impressive as Strain's.
The team Strain created THAT fast is simply amazing. I've never seen a guy leave a company then almost instantly hire people of that caliber that fast.
Sure, it's amazing. But they're still unproven as a company. Flagship Studios consisted of proven talents too, in fact the exodus of Blizzard people roughly 8-10 years ago, of which Jeff Strain was 1 of them, happened to go to 2 companies, Flagship Studio and ArenaNet, and the vast majority of them were talented people who worked on Warcraft series, Diablo and Starcraft.
But even with those credentials, Flagship Studios didn't have automatic success like Hellgate London proved. The core of that team went later on to make Torchlight though, so it proves that they have talent. Only like I said, talent and potential doesn't guarantee success, that is only proven when a successful game is released.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The employees are all proven MMO developers. He didn't hire a bunch of rookies. Jeff Strain stated he hired 14 ex-ArenaNet employees alone. There is an incredible amount of proven talent at Undead Labs. James Phinney's resume is as impressive as Strain's.
The team Strain created THAT fast is simply amazing. I've never seen a guy leave a company then almost instantly hire people of that caliber that fast.
Sure, it's amazing. But they're still unproven as a company. Flagship Studios consisted of proven talents too, in fact the exodus of Blizzard people roughly 8-10 years ago, of which Jeff Strain was 1 of them, happened to go to 2 companies, Flagship Studio and ArenaNet, and the vast majority of them were talented people who worked on Warcraft series, Diablo and Starcraft.
But even with those credentials, Flagship Studios didn't have automatic success like Hellgate London proved. The core of that team went later on to make Torchlight though, so it proves that they have talent. Only like I said, talent and potential doesn't guarantee success, that is only proven when a successful game is released.
Jeff Strain was co-founder of ArenaNet not Flagship. And has since hired proven people from ArenNet. People who worked on Guild Wars and/or Guild Wars 2 before moving over to Undead Labs.
Also, Bioware is unproven in MMOs and they are hyped like crazy. Funcom hasn't made a spectacular MMO in over half a decade and Secret World is hyped all over the place as well.
So why is it unrealistic to expect a more proven group to move the genre forward vs. rookie/average PC studios doing the same thing?
The biggest thing for me is goign to be consoel mmos becayse I think they have a bright future if done right. Like Undead Labs zombie mmo, Dust 514, Turbine console mmo, Defiance and who knows what Blizzard is going to do. Lets hope for the best!
I don't know, it seems like ruinous to chat, console MMO's, so global chat becomes improbable and to activate ts for any unfamiliar face you encounter seems like a bother.
But I don't know, maybe they've already found ways to make it work in MMO's, I don't know how exceptional the chat functions were in DCUO on console.
USB keyboards are the cheap, and some people are quite fast (justl ike text messaging) with the fatfingerable xbox controllers with mini keyboards.
It's also time to setup the voice-chat game for PC which I bring up here in respect to any cross-platform games.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
I believe (let beside the recent 3D Vision hype which wont work) that mmos could be get into the next gear if they get back to the virtual reality concept with the modern hardware of today and headsets that work without headache.
Probably we have to wait one or two dekades more...
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
Jeff Strain was co-founder of ArenaNet not Flagship. And has since hired proven people from ArenNet. People who worked on Guild Wars and/or Guild Wars 2 before moving over to Undead Labs.
Also, Bioware is unproven in MMOs and they are hyped like crazy. Funcom hasn't made a spectacular MMO in over half a decade and Secret World is hyped all over the place as well.
So why is it unrealistic to expect a more proven group to move the genre forward vs. rookie/average PC studios doing the same thing?
Jeff Strain and ArenaNet people came from Blizzard, just like Flagship Studios people came from Blizzard and iirc they all left Blizzard in the same timeperiod. Also, they were all people who stood at the base of Blizzard's hit games back then.
Just saying that a new company even with known devs isn't an automatic win as some people assume right away, as we have seen examples that it clearly didn't work sometimes. These people are proven individually maybe, but not as a group in a new company.
Anyway, this is going too far offtopic, I stated what I wanted to say regarding the Undead Labs topic.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Fact of the matter is is that the games that have the biggest budget will be the games that get the most players to play them. This is EQ/WoW-styled games right now. Because of what World of Warcraft did in subscribers, the companies who have the most money consider it to be the safest financial risk to try to emulate World of Warcraft as closely as possible. They're too afraid to make any other game because it takes so much money.
Now, considering that SW:TOR is the most expensive MMORPG to-date, its possible failure would rattle the industry and cause companies who're thinking of making an MMO to realize that copying World of Warcraft is clearly a bad idea.
And there's your change.
Heh, yeah, I fully understand your (I said 'your' but you're not the only one who thinks like this) reasoning in this, believe me. That's why I readlly, really hope that SWTOR will be a huge, major succes so that it can be flaunted around especially on this site over and over and over again.
And then I hope that GW2 will be a major success too and ArcheAge and The Secret World be solid, good successes so that maybe at least some WoW-style themepark haters and sandbox lovers on these forums finally, finally realise that success of the type of MMO's they like doesn't require the destruction of all other kinds of MMO's that aren't to their taste but that might be liked by other MMO gamers.
So that finally the level of imo snobist-like intolerance of (some) sandbox fans/themepark haters on these forums tones down to less extremist and more moderate levels. Maybe it's wishful thinking and too unrealistic that this'll happen, but I hope not
Originally posted by Belight
You know, most of your posts seem to revolve around how "sorry" you are for people who aren't "open minded" enough to enjoy these watered down shit MMOs that have been coming out lately. Like we are supposed to just swallow them and smile. However, to me it seems that you aren't sorry at all, in fact you seem to enjoy rubbing it in our faces that the sandbox side of things has been neglected, and you try to justify it with sales numbers.
(snips)
*Please don't take this post as too much of an attack against you, as I've seen you are always civil, and for that I respect your posts, I just don't exactly agree with them.
Thank you, I don't mind disagreeing opinions, when offering good arguments like you do I think it can lead to interesting discussions
In fact, I agree with a lot of your arguments: sandbox gameplay has a lot to offer, but not only sandbox gameplay, but also other gameplay elements that are different from typical sandbox or themepark gameplay features, it's the variety that is important. I even often say myself that in my opinion the best MMORPG's in the future will be those that successfully synergise sandbox design and themepark design and add something innovative in the mix to finish it.
Also, I don't wish for sandbox gameplay MMO's to be on the fringe nor do I want to 'rub it in the faces' of sandbox fans to just swallow and smile.But I do feel sorry for those who can't seem to enjoy the vast majority of MMO's out there anymore and can only enjoy them under very specific conditions, yet at the same time keep following MMO's for years in hope to find one that they can enjoy.
What I do object against though is the attitude of sometimes extremist intolerance - in my eyes - that some seem to have, who want all other MMORPG's to be failures only so that the type of MMO's they like (often the sandbox kind) can rise on the ashes of the destruction of the others. A kind of wishful thinking and hoping that leads them to campaigns of continuously bashing, criticizing and slandering those MMO's they dislike.
I mean, dislike some other MMORPG's all you like, but at least try to understand and accept that those MMORPG might offer something that other MMO gamers might like.
I mean, when ArcheAge and WoD and Undead Labs' MMO arrive, I'll be rooting just as much for them to be successes as I will for SWTOR, GW2, TSW and TERA, even if I might not have the time to play them all.
I hope this clarified things
I am impressed with your response to my rantings. Well played, Sir, I bow to your forum prowess.
I can say that my thinking is very similar to yours, however I do tend to lean to the sandbox side of things.
guildwars have the only good concept if i take a look at the op list
Pay once play forever!!!
Tera should be intressting aswell because is shoot to aim concept ( only thing with this game is that's is asian style )
Next gen! you say
you should not take alot of attention to these words tbh. every single mmo advertise with this sentence. heck even webbrower based mmo's company out there
its very simple: every one is expecting the new wow hype of a mmo.. which is simple not gonna happen and everyone should take that and scalp it into there heads.
Blizzard is the only company that can take down his own hype whatever there are producing.
expl. if blizzard comes out with ping pong mmo in 2d it will garantee to have sales( if you get my point)
If you ask my opinion about where the mmo genre is going:
me thinks that fpsmmo will be the upcoming hype. some company are actually already trying hard to get it from the ground like mortal and darkfall. but these companies don't have the resources to either get the game decent working or do some marketing..
its really logic aswell: what's the rush in for expl. playing rift press TAB in front of monster and click on icon on your bar..
i tried almost everything on the market.. and seems to coming back to darkfall every time.
if you like a game whatever that may be you should stick with it. if you get bored of the "wowclones" games and wanne try something new try either darkfall or mortal online. ( i don't have experience with mortal online tho)
if you try darkfall you must have alot of patience..
Today's game developers mistake graphics upgrades and flashy marketing for Innovation. Reviewing the list in the OP, not a single one of these games is doing anything special with the genre.
WTB a game developer with some vision and guts to do something new. With 10000 people online, the actual gaming possibilities are endless, so why focus on cosmetic & thematical changes??
(Those of you who respond with $$, that's a cop out and you know it!)
Originally posted by Demethir Today's game developers mistake graphics upgrades and flashy marketing for Innovation. Reviewing the list in the OP, not a single one of these games is doing anything special with the genre. WTB a game developer with some vision and guts to do something new. With 10000 people online, the actual gaming possibilities are endless, so why focus on cosmetic & thematical changes?? (Those of you who respond with $$, that's a cop out and you know it!)
I would argue that every mmo i listed in my op is bringing at least one new feature to the mmo genre. I already went into what they were in a later post. But even if none of these games are the mmo you are hoping for, its imporrant to the genre that these games are being made.
I used to be so narrow minded that nothing would do unless it was exactly what i was looking for. But in actuality, this new crop of mmos coming out in the next few years is exactly what the genre needs in the wake of an 800 pound gorilla.
We need developers to make every type of mmo they can think of: every setting, graphics type, fps,action,turn based, rts, on pc,consoles,mobile devices, new ways to quest, craft, build, fight, tell a story, and even how we pay for it. Even if its not 100% brand new all across the board, its what the genre needs. We gotta hit it at every angle and see what sticks.
Comments
Typical un-informed gamer who parrots everything he hears over some ass halfed blog. GW2 is about as close to WoW as it is to the Monopoly board game.
GW2 has not one iota of the typical WoW game feature except they are both an MMO. If you want a WoW clone look at SWToR.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
This is a good example of why Im optimistic. Even the people who hate everything about current mmos are looking forward to multiple titles. And the people who love current mmos have many titles to look forward to as well.
I think this time around is different than the WAR, AoC, Aion fiasco for a couple of reasons. For one, those games are all sword and sorcerer settings. Second, most of these new games are starting to cautiously step out of the box, whether its a skill system instead of classes, dynamic events, political systems, fps ground game blended with space strategy, survival horror, or a crafting system thats worthy of its own endgame.
I remain cautiously optimistic about the future of MMOs. The biggest accomplishment this new lineup of mmos can have is that they all find their target audience and achieve success.
Sure Id love nothing more than for the genre to pick up where it left off 8 years ago and create virtual worlds from the ground up. But we have to be realistic. WoW sent a shockwave through the mmo market and we are just now getting to the light at the end of the tunnel. We are just now seeing big budget mmos taking risks again. Sure they may not be the risks we would like them to take, but they are taking risks nonetheless and I hope they are rewarded for their efforts.
We, as mmo fans should be rallying behind any dev who does anything different in their mmo. Even if 99% of their game is same ol same ol, that 1% that is different should be recognized by the community, IMO.
I dont think you will ever find another anomaly like EQ1 in this genre again.(sorry i dont see GW2 being something that groundbreaking) as for WoW, that was more or less destined due to so many different factors.
IF Bioware plays their cards right, they are the ONLY one in the current generation MMO that stands a chance aginst WoW. HOWEVER... I'm starting to see the EA influence clawing at the foundation of bioware with their release of DA2... maybe thats the reason they pushed ME3 back so they can "safely" release ToR w/o gamers seeing more examples of that EA influence?... if that is the case, the thinking is VERY short sighted and ToR WILL fail...
as for other games, Rift is likely as large as it's gonna be. fairly successful game, but really only a footnote in the genre. other games offer interesting distractions, but dont really have the oomph behind it to challenge the 800lb guerrilla in the jungle.
I'm sry dude but after posting this on the SWtor forums, you still have the impudence to call other ppl uninformed parrots and still think you have any credibility at all around here? Seriously...
I do honestly think it will come down to which game performs better between SWTOR and GW2.
If SWTOR becomes the next dominant game it will reinforce that the gaming populace is still very happy with the traditional design of MMOs and thus game design and development will reflect that moving forward.
If GW2 becomes the next dominant game it will show there is a strong desire to move forward in the very basic core elements of the genre as well as demonstrating a shift in the dominant business model.
And of course if neither game enjoys massive success, Blizzards behemoth will reign a while longer helping them fund what should be an amazing game in "Titan".
Is the "new golden era of MMOs" the new "this genre is dead" mantra? Everone is a fortune teller.
Heh, yeah, I fully understand your (I said 'your' but you're not the only one who thinks like this) reasoning in this, believe me. That's why I readlly, really hope that SWTOR will be a huge, major succes so that it can be flaunted around especially on this site over and over and over again.
And then I hope that GW2 will be a major success too and ArcheAge and The Secret World be solid, good successes so that maybe at least some WoW-style themepark haters and sandbox lovers on these forums finally, finally realise that success of the type of MMO's they like doesn't require the destruction of all other kinds of MMO's that aren't to their taste but that might be liked by other MMO gamers.
So that finally the level of imo snobist-like intolerance of (some) sandbox fans/themepark haters on these forums tones down to less extremist and more moderate levels. Maybe it's wishful thinking and too unrealistic that this'll happen, but I hope not
Thank you, I don't mind disagreeing opinions, when offering good arguments like you do I think it can lead to interesting discussions
In fact, I agree with a lot of your arguments: sandbox gameplay has a lot to offer, but not only sandbox gameplay, but also other gameplay elements that are different from typical sandbox or themepark gameplay features, it's the variety that is important. I even often say myself that in my opinion the best MMORPG's in the future will be those that successfully synergise sandbox design and themepark design and add something innovative in the mix to finish it.
Also, I don't wish for sandbox gameplay MMO's to be on the fringe nor do I want to 'rub it in the faces' of sandbox fans to just swallow and smile.But I do feel sorry for those who can't seem to enjoy the vast majority of MMO's out there anymore and can only enjoy them under very specific conditions, yet at the same time keep following MMO's for years in hope to find one that they can enjoy.
What I do object against though is the attitude of sometimes extremist intolerance - in my eyes - that some seem to have, who want all other MMORPG's to be failures only so that the type of MMO's they like (often the sandbox kind) can rise on the ashes of the destruction of the others. A kind of wishful thinking and hoping that leads them to campaigns of continuously bashing, criticizing and slandering those MMO's they dislike.
I mean, dislike some other MMORPG's all you like, but at least try to understand and accept that those MMORPG might offer something that other MMO gamers might like.
I mean, when ArcheAge and WoD and Undead Labs' MMO arrive, I'll be rooting just as much for them to be successes as I will for SWTOR, GW2, TSW and TERA, even if I might not have the time to play them all.
I hope this clarified things
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The title and OP of this thread make me laugh.
There's no reason beyond better graphics, (sorry, more pixels, so as not to offend the one guy out there who will call Super Mario Brothers the most amazing graphical experience he's never seen.).
Most of what we're seeing , without naming names, is mostly what we've already seen. Calling Paladin a White Knight or calling a mage Mr. Boom-boom-hands does not a new game make.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
The biggest thing for me is goign to be consoel mmos becayse I think they have a bright future if done right. Like Undead Labs zombie mmo, Dust 514, Turbine console mmo, Defiance and who knows what Blizzard is going to do. Lets hope for the best!
Long-term wise anyways the only game of that list that interests me is Arche Age. Everything else just seems more of the same.
I used to be on the bandwagon of TERA cause the combat looks so nice, but I seriously doubt its longevity along with most of the games on the list. But only time will tell I guess.
I don't know, it seems like ruinous to chat, console MMO's, so global chat becomes improbable and to activate ts for any unfamiliar face you encounter seems like a bother.
But I don't know, maybe they've already found ways to make it work in MMO's, I don't know how exceptional the chat functions were in DCUO on console.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I agree. PC MMOs in general have grown stale with lack of innovation. I'm looking forward to a bunch of console MMOs to move the genre in a different direction away from the 'WoW' clone.
The Undead Labs zombie MMO tops my list for MMOs I'm looking forward to. It's a persistent, open-world, sandbox MMO being developed by a proven group with Microsoft as publisher. When was the last time a proven PC developer & big publisher released a persistent, open-world sandbox MMO? PC developers/publishers seem afraid of the sub-genre. So this console game is very refresing for a very stale MMO market.
? Did I miss something? I thought this was a fairly new company, Undead Labs. I have a great respect for Jeff Strain, but at this moment they're at the same stage as the Blizzard group of people that set out on their own to create Flagship Studios and Hellgate London: they were very talented and it was all very promising, but nothing is certain until the game arrives.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The employees are all proven MMO developers. He didn't hire a bunch of rookies. Jeff Strain stated he hired 14 ex-ArenaNet employees alone. There is an incredible amount of proven talent at Undead Labs. James Phinney's resume is as impressive as Strain's.
The team Strain created THAT fast is simply amazing. I've never seen a guy leave a company then almost instantly hire people of that caliber that fast.
Sure, it's amazing. But they're still unproven as a company. Flagship Studios consisted of proven talents too, in fact the exodus of Blizzard people roughly 8-10 years ago, of which Jeff Strain was 1 of them, happened to go to 2 companies, Flagship Studio and ArenaNet, and the vast majority of them were talented people who worked on Warcraft series, Diablo and Starcraft.
But even with those credentials, Flagship Studios didn't have automatic success like Hellgate London proved. The core of that team went later on to make Torchlight though, so it proves that they have talent. Only like I said, talent and potential doesn't guarantee success, that is only proven when a successful game is released.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Jeff Strain was co-founder of ArenaNet not Flagship. And has since hired proven people from ArenNet. People who worked on Guild Wars and/or Guild Wars 2 before moving over to Undead Labs.
Also, Bioware is unproven in MMOs and they are hyped like crazy. Funcom hasn't made a spectacular MMO in over half a decade and Secret World is hyped all over the place as well.
So why is it unrealistic to expect a more proven group to move the genre forward vs. rookie/average PC studios doing the same thing?
USB keyboards are the cheap, and some people are quite fast (justl ike text messaging) with the fatfingerable xbox controllers with mini keyboards.
It's also time to setup the voice-chat game for PC which I bring up here in respect to any cross-platform games.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
I think we are approaching a new golden age in hacking... O.O
Golden Era...
I believe (let beside the recent 3D Vision hype which wont work) that mmos could be get into the next gear if they get back to the virtual reality concept with the modern hardware of today and headsets that work without headache.
Probably we have to wait one or two dekades more...
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
Jeff Strain and ArenaNet people came from Blizzard, just like Flagship Studios people came from Blizzard and iirc they all left Blizzard in the same timeperiod. Also, they were all people who stood at the base of Blizzard's hit games back then.
Just saying that a new company even with known devs isn't an automatic win as some people assume right away, as we have seen examples that it clearly didn't work sometimes. These people are proven individually maybe, but not as a group in a new company.
Anyway, this is going too far offtopic, I stated what I wanted to say regarding the Undead Labs topic.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
as much as I like Jeff Strain,
Microsoft has a HORRIBLE history with mmos
Microsoft has never stuck with any mmo in the last 10 years -- even Asherons Call, they sold back to Turbine
will be interesting how it all plays out
EQ2 fan sites
I am impressed with your response to my rantings. Well played, Sir, I bow to your forum prowess.
I can say that my thinking is very similar to yours, however I do tend to lean to the sandbox side of things.
guildwars have the only good concept if i take a look at the op list
Pay once play forever!!!
Tera should be intressting aswell because is shoot to aim concept ( only thing with this game is that's is asian style )
Next gen! you say
you should not take alot of attention to these words tbh. every single mmo advertise with this sentence. heck even webbrower based mmo's company out there
its very simple: every one is expecting the new wow hype of a mmo.. which is simple not gonna happen and everyone should take that and scalp it into there heads.
Blizzard is the only company that can take down his own hype whatever there are producing.
expl. if blizzard comes out with ping pong mmo in 2d it will garantee to have sales( if you get my point)
If you ask my opinion about where the mmo genre is going:
me thinks that fpsmmo will be the upcoming hype. some company are actually already trying hard to get it from the ground like mortal and darkfall. but these companies don't have the resources to either get the game decent working or do some marketing..
its really logic aswell: what's the rush in for expl. playing rift press TAB in front of monster and click on icon on your bar..
i tried almost everything on the market.. and seems to coming back to darkfall every time.
if you like a game whatever that may be you should stick with it. if you get bored of the "wowclones" games and wanne try something new try either darkfall or mortal online. ( i don't have experience with mortal online tho)
if you try darkfall you must have alot of patience..
Today's game developers mistake graphics upgrades and flashy marketing for Innovation. Reviewing the list in the OP, not a single one of these games is doing anything special with the genre.
WTB a game developer with some vision and guts to do something new. With 10000 people online, the actual gaming possibilities are endless, so why focus on cosmetic & thematical changes??
(Those of you who respond with $$, that's a cop out and you know it!)
I used to be so narrow minded that nothing would do unless it was exactly what i was looking for. But in actuality, this new crop of mmos coming out in the next few years is exactly what the genre needs in the wake of an 800 pound gorilla.
We need developers to make every type of mmo they can think of: every setting, graphics type, fps,action,turn based, rts, on pc,consoles,mobile devices, new ways to quest, craft, build, fight, tell a story, and even how we pay for it. Even if its not 100% brand new all across the board, its what the genre needs. We gotta hit it at every angle and see what sticks.