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Why do some of you feel the rest of us HAVE to give second, third, etc., chances?
Khalathwyr
Member UncommonPosts: 3,133
This mindset has been boggling me for the longest time.
Almost all of us at one time or another have encoutered a concumer experience where we weren't exactly happy with the outcome. Indded, we were so unhappy with it that we decided not to conduct business with that restaurant, clothing store, hardware shop or whatever type of business it was, again. Which is absolutely normal and okay, right?
So why is it different when someone comes to the same decision about a game maker? Are they not a business as well? Are they not in the position of being held to a certain standard of quality in product? It seems as though some believe that these companies can just put out whatever they want in any shape they want and that all of us gamers are obligated to "just give it a try". Especialy if that company has gotten the game experience you wanted in the first place right (or were heading down the road to it) and then, to the protests of many, they change course and move the game a different direction.
People will jump to the head of the line to say that the company has the right to do what it wants with their game. And I agree. But why do I not have the right to choose not to play any of their games from that point on without being labeled as having an "issue". Well, I guess, yes I do have an issue. Bad customer service on the part of the company.
And what happens if we don't, especially if we've had previous experience with a company and decide that we'd rather not play their games? We're labeled as having something mentally wrong or extremists. We're viewed upon as having something "wrong with us" if we are apathetic to something negative happening to said game companies.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Comments
Tunnel Vision. They had a great or good experience and they can't see how everyone else didn't have the same experience so it must have been something wrong with you or what you expected was non-realistic of the game (and by extension the creators).
At least, that's how I can see some people refusing to believe others not giving more chances.
My opinion is who cares what everyone else thinks? Does it really matter?
Also, everybody deserves a second chance, even games/companies you hate. Sometimes things change. It's up to you whether you want to do that, though.
I gave SWG a second chance after the CU came out, and soon after the NGE hit ... I should have never gave them that second chance.
Sometimes I don't need to give them second chances, like Bioware. I really enjoyed KOTOR so I'm assuming that I'll enjoy TOR as well.
Does it really matter that much what others think of you? Or what they label you with? If you don't want to try a game or give another developer a chance, that's your prerogative. Who cares what others have to say about your decision.
People do and say stupid things all the time when it comes to something they're passionate about.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
Interesting thread ...
*You is used in the hypothetical for the duration of this post *
If you've given up on a company, then there is no reason for you to comment in threads related to that company or products they have released. You're done with the company .. you've spoken with your wallet, theres no reason to skim threads at that point.
When you do ... I and others have ample legitimacy in claiming you have an issue. Clearly if you were done with the company as previously stated .. you would have no further reason to comment on it at all.
/shrug .... I'm not sure why you would exspect anything less.
Well everybody has their own tolerance level. It takes a lot to push me over the edge, to make the decision not to go back to a business or a game.
Take for instance SWG, I hung around after the cu, and the nge was finally the last straw. I went back a couple of times when i was given like free access. I quit the game but not the game company I still play eq2 as it was something I liked.
Then you have games like war hammer, AOC, STO. LOTRO. Now these guys all drove me away forever, as they had nothing else to offer, nothing but greed.
Now we can go over business folks I used to go to Ruby Tuesday. A few years back they decided to change everything. They changed the decor, and the entire menu. There is nothing on the menu now that I like to enjoy, so I don't shop with them. Take a look at outback they changed their entire menu as well, and jacked up the prices while decreasing the portion size, it took them about 6 month to figure it out and make a comeback, however Ruby Tuesday has not learned, I can drive by there on a Friday night and there's 10 cars in the parking lot most of them employees, 2 miles down the road Outback so packed that folks are waiting outside to get a seat. People speak with their wallet.
I also speak to my wallet, and if I decide to give up on a game or game company that's on me. No amount of posting going you don't know what you talking about or private messages calling me a game hater is going to change my mind.
Like I said it all comes down to your tolerance on how a game runs, or a game company does business.
In every single situation that isn't a Game company, warning the general public about poor quality would be considered a public service. In the MMO world, you're just a loser and a hater. It's called a double standard, and that's the point of the OP I believe.
I guess that all depends on why you didnt like the game/business in the first place.
If it was bad customer service or something like that, might be worth going back if they had fired the insolent bastard or changed their policy on whatever your issue was..
If the store had a confusing layout where you could never find anything... might be worth going back for the grand reopening..
If a bartender couldnt make your obscure bacon flavored banana/pineapple vodka armanac dreamboat surprize because he had no clue what it was or didnt have bananas or was discusted by your request. and you stormed out under a thundercloud... Maybe someone might point out to you that they have 639 different kinds of beer and can make 1700 other drinks.. and you might like one of those.. It might be worth it going back for a second look.
But if there was nothing you liked about it in the first place.. and you really only went in there to use the bathroom... well unless you really really need to take a dump.. dont go back.
You have the right to boycott the publisher or developer of a game, and we have the right to say you have an issue. Deal with it.
This thread isn't about having rights, you missed the point.
Because we're individuals, and thus, our experiences and tastes , even playing the same games, are not the same.
Its not an "issue" of warning the general public.
The two opinions on the game differ, something obviously pushed "you" so hard you will no longer play the game nor contribute to the developer. Where as "I" did not have the experience .. nor have I come to the same conclusion ; therefor unless the product is Broken/Defective there is nothing for "you" to warn the general public about.
Apples to Oranges ...
If you don't want someone to label you, or generate an impression of you .... then never express yourself.
People don't expect others to give a game a second chance. They want you to quit whining about not wanting to play the game.
If you come to a public forum and express an opinion about a game, someone (especially here) is going to argue with you about it. That doesn't mean they want you to give the game a second chance, it means they want to argue with you about it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I see nothing wrong with giving up hope a company will imporve their service(s). If that is how you feel so be it, and that's fine.
Of course you're going to have people making comments, especially on a site like this.
Now if you're referring to the hacking of SOE, and feeling apathetic towards that, I think you have to understand people may take offense to this. Escpecially in a situation where the consumer was hurt just as much, if not more than the Corp you have a problem with.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
So why is it different when someone comes to the same decision about a game maker? It's not different. Some people will go to the same business and have good experiences, then suggest you give them another chance.
Are they not a business as well? Yes, developers and publishers are businesses.
Are they not in the position of being held to a certain standard of quality in product? Certainly, at least, as much as any other business.
But why do I not have the right to choose not to play any of their games from that point on without being labeled as having an "issue". You have the right to choose and even to expect everyone you encounter to be polite, friendly, and understanding of your position. However, anyone who spends any time online knows how implausable that expectation truly is.
And what happens if we don't, especially if we've had previous experience with a company and decide that we'd rather not play their games? We're labeled as having something mentally wrong or extremists. We're viewed upon as having something "wrong with us" if we are apathetic to something negative happening to said game companies. Learn to cast this kind of garbage aside and don't let it affect you. If you're looking for some meaningful exploration of interpersonal behavior, especially from the very people who label you as "having something mentally wrong", then I wish you all the best. I just don't see the point of this post, as previously pointed out. It seems like something that would attract a great many trolls. I'm going back under my bridge now.
I'm not the OP, but I know what sort of situation he's talking about. And it's not just customer service.
If you go to a grocery store because they sell the items you like, but they decide to stop carrying 19 of the 20 items you pick up weekly. I have a feeling you would stop shopping there. Now say that this store makes a habit of changing its stock like this, and you want to warn people about it. YOU'RE A GOOD PERSON.
If you are playing a game and enjoying it, and suddenly the game has been fundamentally changed, removing your playstyle entirely in favor of Johnny Awesome's playstyle, are you going to continue to fund that company? Now say that this company makes a habit of completely changing the fundamentals and you want to warn people about it. God you're such a loser, you have an issue, get over it nerd.
See what I'm saying? Apples to apples.
I'm not seeing the issue. I've been openly critical of several MMO makers over the years with the most notable being Cryptic and my own, personal feeling is they make poor games and I won't be playing anything they make. (well, maybe with the recent change in ownership I could be persuaded to reconsider one day)
Does that mean I have issues? I guess it does. So what, who cares? I'm not a fan of Frogster either, again, my issue, others may love them, I don't care for the P2W formula that some of their titles seem to have.
I love CCP, think they're a great developer, others hate them with a passion. Do I care? No. Do they care that I don't care? No.
So what were we talking about again?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Just want to point out that Cryptic got picked up by one of the most notorious Pay-to-win companies in the mmo world... lol.
You have issues ...
The above is what we are talking about, that I would point out you have issues ; it bothers the OP.
I think the minority of developer/game supporters took a few to many whacks at him, where as he should just ignore the more vocal minority.
Personally myself. If you don't want to trust a company again, then that is your right and noone should force you to do other wise (a person saying you should give them a second chance isn't forcing, forcing would be taking your card and signing you up for the service)
Also you can feel free to state your opinion about the company and why you won't do business with them and you should be able to do this without having your opinion called wrong and you irrational. You have your reasons whatever they may be.
On that same note but the flip side of the coin
If a person has had generally positive experience with a company it's not really right to start trying to disway that person by saying their being sheep or whatever and not being wise to what is going on.
It's a two way street really. If someone enjoys what the company is giving out then you don't really have any right to say they are wrong for that, nor do they have any right to say your wrong for not giving the company a second chance.
In the end nearly all the companies are after one thing, money i can be almost certain that customer only comes first when it's interlocked with getting more money. Some companies tend to reward their customers better for this, but in the end it's money. They are a business after all.
Opinions are fine, just try not to go on some kind of holy crusade against a company and you'll be fine with me.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Everyone has bad days. Maybe the day you went to the store, restaurant, played the game, or whatever was a day you were in a horrible mood anyway. Maybe you were just sitting on the edge waiting for one tiny thing to push you over so you could get mad and blame the company. I know real people that have acted this way before. Perhaps the employee you dealt with was having a bad day or an a-hole. Maybe the company's supplier was late with their stock or an ISP had issues which caused you to blame the company for issues out of their control.
There are a million reasons to give any company a second chance. If you base all your life choices off one time incidents then you could be missing out on some great opportunities in life. Companies change - they get new suppliers, new workers, new management. People change job and companies change business practices all the time.
Now if you argue that your experience was consistently bad with customer service, the product (cooked meal, clothes, whatever it is), the stocked supplies, etc. then I would say you have already given the company multiple chances. However, this topic wasn't geared that way. So I will assume you have only visited the business or used their services once. I'll agree sometimes once can be enough, especially for small businesses where you deal directly with the owners. Your experience is likely not going to change with such small companies.
It's hard to qualify this question with an mmo, because most people don't play just "once." They play for a few days, weeks, or even their first full month. You get to see product over a course of time and form an opinion, but I think it is kinda silly to write off something forever. Look at large games like WoW. They have changed entirely since launch. It's not even like you are playing the same game anymore. While some small games never change.
Sorry, but your assumption is wrong. It doesn't bother me. I just wanted to know why. It's the psychology degree in me asking questions. I honestly don't give a flying flip what any of you think about what you assume to be me by what I write on a message forum. Bottom line is you don't know me and never will, so there is no logical reason for me to care / get emotionally vested.
That said, I was just trying to get some honest insight into why those who label do so. I know all the stuff you can read in books but sometimes it's good to get it from the horse's mouth, especially with their view/twist/slant as to why they do it and feel it is justified.
What I do find fascinating is that people seemingly acknowledge that a company has done some wrong or has put out bad products consistently, yet they continue to feed that beast of mediocrity and low standards with their dollars. Now, while I can understand why someone wouldn't care what another they don't know "thought of them", it is a little confusing as to why some people would continue to give out such support.
It's like watching 5 people step on land mines and get killed but thinking "Well, I've never stepped on a land mine and died yet so stepping on them must not be all that bad". Then they hear 3 survivors talk about their missing limbs and trauma from stepping on a mine but instead of listening to the warning they instead call them liars and tell them they just have a personal issue with land mines. They need to get over "hating" the land mines because that arm and leg were blown off 5 years ago. They need to move on.
@Kyleran, you kill me man.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Pretty much. And I can see people getting a negative reaction if they go about warning folks in an obnoxious manner. But, if they offer a well worded criticism of the product there are still those who launch into labels. They are automatically assumed to be foaming at the mouth, screaming at their monitor as they type their "venom filled" hate responces. When in fact their blood presuure is probably closer to normal that those leaping to label them liars.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Well said.. Like I say all the time that Cryptic games are the most horrible things to ever hit the MMO market.. Some people don't like that because they play cryptic games.. Some people have got mad at me, do I care? No. Do I care that people play something I think is terrible? No.. I don't know why I read so many posts at this website but too many people waste too much time posting their "feelings" about a game. I wish more people would post informative messages. (unlike this one lol)
(edited because I can't spell worth a damn.)