Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
"City of Heroes Freedom" A Great Thing!!!
MysteryB
Member UncommonPosts: 355
Hey guys, well I have seen alot of negativity about the new Freedom model coming to the CoX world, and so I thought I would stop and tell you guys why this is going to be great for the game.
Lets face it guys, City of Heroes is dying, though Going Rogue expanded its life longer I am now seeing people leaving like they did after i5. Just 2 months ago I was on CoH everyday, and there were tons of people on and had alot of everyday friends, but now most of them have quit because of various reasons, but mainly I see a few things that caused this.
-Only 2 Trials makes end-game get dull and boring after awhile. It was fun the first toon, but gets very boring.
-AE has made farming all anyone ever wants to do
-Lack of players makes teaming outside of AE very difficult
I can go on, but I think those 4 things are good points.
Alot of people seem to forget that outside of the Mission Architect there is an entire game that has a great story, good characters and its actually FUN. With alot of new players joining because its free there will be more opportunity for people to play the game as it was meant to be played.
I dont see any fixes coming for AE as people will always find a way to farm, but what I am hoping all these new players do for the game is get people back to doing sewers, taking down The Hollows and Frost Fire, Doing Synapse and other TF's and so on, all of these things will be new for the players, and I think we as Veterans have a responsibility to help them learn the ropes and maybe make the game not just about numbers, but about having fun again.
The new players wont choose the best power sets, and they wont run the numbers to compare power sets, they will choose what they think sounds cool and that is how we all were once. My first character was an Ice/Fire Blaster than a Claws/Dark Armor Scrapper, while neither of those are the best combo's in the game for PvE or PvP they were fun for me.
I guess what I am trying to get accross is that we should embrace the Freedom model and all new players that come with it, lets try to make CoH fun again when those new people hit, and hopefully make the game more about having fun, less about Farming and trashing other people's builds. This is a chance for CoH to be great again like it was pre-i5, but its up to the established players to help it come back.
Mystery Bounty
Comments
Well I certainly saw this coming, though I wasn't expecting it to be so soon. I was estimating Q2 2012 by their quarterly earnings.
Not that I'm complaining mind you. If I can't convince my friends to come back however, not sure I'll be reinstalling.
The economy is wreaking havoc on people's wallets, so we may see more of these hybrid F2P games in the future.
Remember, it has to be fun to be a game. Grinding is a bedroom activity, and the point is definitely not to do my wife as fast as possible.
and here I am to reintroduce you to reality..... Let's really see what you are getting...
I'll just leave this here:
http://www.cityofheroes.com/news/freedom/player_choices.html#tabs-4
Already I see the spambots, trolls, and newtards at the gates.
Spammers and bots are already in the game, they are in any game with a free trial. Its something you have to expect man, like with the Aion beta, omg there were so many spammers that made queue's stall and took over 7 hours to get in the servers haha. But you gotta take the good with the bad, I dont see spammers/gold farmers as a major problem because I have played alot of F2P games and are used to them.
Plus people that done pay dont get to talk in broadcast so that will keep them from constantly spamming, if you are near them they can spam you but just ignore those.
Mystery Bounty
There's nothing wrong with this MMO going F2P/Hybrid. It is 7 years old. Makes sense. When it comes to games, like this, that have been around for awhile it really should not matter. The game has made a lot of profit since it premiered. You really think an MMO can be around forever? Not really. I'm fine with this.
Hmm so how are these elements that you seem to fear going to affect you if you are a vip player and choose the "vip" only server?
This is a great move by Ncsoft. I loved CoX and bought all expansions and played for 3+ years. This will bring nothing but profits to them much the same way it did with DDO and Lotro.
Notice I didn't mention Champions online but that is because Champs really limited vet returning players. CoX isn't really doing that since hey let you keep almost all your vet items and expansions. Smart move on their part.
I actually look forward to this setup. Sure there will be gold farmers, bots, and spammers. But it will eventually fizzle out much like it has with Lotro.
Good job Ncsoft for breathing life back into a game I once loved and can now play on my own terms with no commitments. When will DCUO go the same route. I beta tested it and from the beginning I realized DCUO needed to follow this route....
I'll certainly give CoH another go when this hits.
Important facts:
1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
4. Community is more important than you think.
Shukano, I really agree about how Champions is limited. I download champions because it is free now. I never bought the game, however I did play in beta. Sadly all my characters were custom built except one and didn't fall into the free play. They really need to loosen up on some free play elements. I was about to sub up in it until I saw City. Hopefully things will be a little better there.
NCsoft..never again shall I play one of your games//
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Absolutely. Screwing your veterean players is never the way to go.
Hopefully CoX does it better.
I really like how CoX is doing their F2P model. Paying members actually lose NOTHING and in fact gain in the deal (Paragon points, Rewards, 1 server transfer per month). So if you're already paying for the game, why quit, you get more. My question is for the tier 2. According to that side by side comparison, you only get 2 character slots, plus any you've purchased. What happens on servers you already have over 12 on? On Liberty I have 15 characters, I've bought 3 slots and I have 5 left I can use. Do those characters just get deleted?
Also, I read some people worried about spambots and what not. Tier 1 and 2 do not have access to the wider communication channels, whispers or even mail, so I'm not worried about that.
While I certainly can't argue that CoH hasn't seen a subscriber/income loss over the past years (which means it would eventually die, yes) I don't really agree with your bullet points for the most part. Primarily in that I almost never see anyone using AE on my primary server (Justice). I quite frequently see people out and about, calls for various TFs/SFs/WSTs/Ship raids/random missions and only the occasional farm. Justice can't be that much of an aberration of a server that it's the only one that doesn't have all of its players constantly farming AE. I see teams form for various other 'normal' game-world activities forming all the time in my global channels.
Also, while I'm not going to discount the whole trials getting boring bit (even though I generally still find them fun) I will point out that there's another trial being released in the next week or two and that whenever it comes out I21 should have another. So yea, repetition is boring, but at least they're providing a little bit of variety soon.
Well come over to Freedom or Virtue haha. Justice is one of the lower populated servers so it makes sense you dont see it as much, on Freedom or Virtue you can login at 4am and find ppl asking for free farms. And there is another trial coming out but making it 1 more, the other 2 are getting boring, whether you find them boring is your opinion but I have tier 4 on 1 toon and tier 3 everything on 2 more characters so its getting pretty boring running them, its just a personal opinion so you cant really argue with that since I am not the only one who thinks so. If you enjoy the 5 min cut scene, the laggy prisoners and the teamates that dont know what get back let him get on Nightstar's body means than thats good, getting dull for the rest of us.
Mystery Bounty
After a knee-jerk gag reflex upon first reading it, I think it's a great implementation plan.
For those raging, I get the impression they don't understand the value of the microtransaction system.
Trust me, Paragon does not want to drive the subscribers away with nickel and diming. Subscriptions at $15/person/month are more lucrative for Paragon than thrifty $5/every 3 month F2P'er. Paragon wants to make subscriptions compelling enough to convert the F2Pers over and then keep them. How do you keep subscribers? With new content (generated from revenue) and a thriving community playing the game.
Farmville is successful not because of a subscription model (obviously), or because it preys upon individuals who have no sense of self-restraint when it comes to online purchases, but because transactions are made in such enormous *volume*.
Think about it. A straight subscription-based system will decline over time as clearly evidenced, be it because the players have exhausted the content and/or the community is in decline (a nasty cycle when it starts). 10,000 people paying $15/month nets Paragon $150,000/month (which isn't much for them) and also isn't much in the way of a population at primetime. Eventually people will start to walk away just because there doesn't appear to be enough other people around. BUT, 10,000 people paying $15/month plus 50,000 people paying $2/month nets Paragon $250,000/month and, because population is thriving, helps maintain (if not grow) the game in perception of active players available to play with and generates a revenue stream to create new content to further retain those ongoing subscribers. All figures are hypothetical, of course.
Paragon Studios want your money, absolutely, no doubt about it. But, they just don't want it this month. They want you to keep coming back. F2P options affords them the resources to keep giving you content and creating a situation (i.e. a community around you) that will want you to keep coming back, while also possibly capitalizing on massive amounts of casual players that otherwise would not pay anything if the only option was an ongoing subscription.
And for those not worried about nickel and diming, but just the influx of...."spambots, trolls, and newtards(!) at the gates", Paragon was sensitive enough to offer an exclusive VIP server to avoid those folks as well as consider other options to limit their impact.
It's definitely looking good, so long as the subscribers don't suddenly find themselves having to pay extra for non-consumable things such as powerset, costumes, and content (that exceeds the stipend they will get).
To answer Deathstroke's questions (and another I think), here's some posts from Positron on some specifics.
Character slots while using a Free Play account are Global, and you have access to your characters still (they are not deleted or lost when you stop paying a monthy subscription). But you ARE limited as to how many you can select for play while playing for free.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?p=3696534#post3696534
Players will have Paragon Rewards as well as Paragon Points that they can use to either purchase or unlock content within the game. The exact details on Paragon Rewards have not been given, but they are certainly not the same thing as Paragon Points which are purchased with real money to obtain things from the game store. It appears that a source for Paragon Rewards will simply be from having played the game a long while through monthly subscription previous to the upcoming change.
Paragon Rewards are surmised as being a way for Premium free players to obtain global chat channel use as well as use character archtypes that are normally locked for starting free play accounts.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?p=3697435#post3697435
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?p=3698453#post3698453
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?p=3696309#post3696309
Here's a bit of insight from someone who has been and still is subscribed to CoX:
AE Farming: It's annoying, yes, but it doesn't stop you from getting other content done. There are still tons of Task Forces started, especially due to Weekly TFs. And I found something interesting as I sat around tired of waiting for a sewer team to start....I shouted that I was making one and seconds later the team was full and I had to turn people away. Imagine that? Stop waiting on people and stop being afraid to start a group and you'll be surprised how many people will jump at the chance to experience the content with you. Furthermore, in order to get in on an AE farm it will usually run people 5-30mill per run and most people can't afford that or don't want to spend the money. Yes, people charge for you to participate in their farm. Thus why it doesn't happen nearly as much as people like to think.
Spammers: Spammers and gold sellers already existed in the game and still do. I still log into the game after taking a month off and end up having to throw out hundreds of ingame mail from gold sellers. They're in all games, get over it. You're not going to get anymore spammers than you already had and only people who pay can use global chat to begin with. They're annoying, but this has never been the reason I stopped enjoying a game. /ignore them and move on.
Trials: Absolutely right, it gets boring after a while, but this isn't 'end-game' and I don't know why that's what it's considered. End-game has existed as content in CoX long before the Incarnate Trials existed, that's a very recent addition to a game that's existed for like 7+ years at this point. New trials are already being worked on, and more will continue to be added to the game. It's a new feature, takes time to develop, and we only have half of the available incarnate powers unlockable at this point, so there's plenty more planned in the future. It only really gets boring when you try to get it on multiple characters, which is why I recommend you don't. You don't need it. The game's content existed long before Incarnate powers, and so it's made without those powers in mind. In fact, Incarnate Powers make an already easy game almost ridiculously so. My Fortunata with full Tier 4 incarnate powers can solo Archvillains/Heroes thanks to -regen passive that applies to all his powers (Interface), Seers spamming Fortitude on him (Lore), -recharge on all powers (Alpha), and a barrier (Destiny) that raises his already ridiculously high defenses to around 180% across the board. That's without help from other classes that come with their own party buffs. Get the powers on a character you love, your main, let him/her be the 'uber' character, and just focus on having fun with the rest of them. Min/maxing on tons of toons would get boring no matter what variety of content is available.
Population: Population is low on all but the main servers (Triumph and Freedom) because well...those are the main servers and thus where everyone chooses to hang out. I'm guessing the only reason they haven't condensed is because they knew this move to F2P was happening loooooong before we did and wanted to give the population a chance to spread out. Because only paying people will get priority, that means Freedom and Triumph (which are almost always in the Red, meaning Full, in the evenings and on weekends) probably wont support many if any free players. Those players will end up on the other servers, which will be like breathing life into them. For now, its difficult unless you're on the main two servers and if you are, there's absolutely no reason why you shouldn't find people to play with. Unless you're a Villain...there don't seem to be many people that play villains, don't ask me why. Plenty of heroes and praetorians, villains not so much. Fortunately you can easily solo content by lowering the difficulty, level to 20 and then do the morality mission to become a Rogue, which gives you access to both heroes and villains areas.
It's a good game, and still the best hero MMO available. I always go back to it eventually, and I'm not sure why. I feel like Champions ~should~ be better, but while not a bad game, it's just not as good (though it is much prettier). And DCUO...lol...
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
The game is made by Cryptic and were already on it's way down when NC soft bought it.
It is a pretty old game by now and have actually had a pretty good run but I don't see how it would have gone better if Cryptic still would have had the responsibility, Champions online went F2P even before.
NC soft is surely not the best MMO publisher out there but it isn't the worst either. If Cryptic still would have owned CoX it would now be taken over by Perfect world entertainment and they are worse.
This game is past it's prime so NC soft tries to do what Turbine did with DDO, it might give the game a few more years. Don't complain, they could have cancelled the game instead or do a Vanguard and never ever update it.
indeed.. considering that people have asked for this for several years it is not a bad move to make, and since it blows CO out of the water by sheer awesomensss and have a lot more content then DCUO (altho i still think the combat in DCUO is a lot more... Animated i think the best word is.) this hybrid move should make every one happy. And since they are making a VIP-Only server for those who care not to play with the "freeps" and have said over and over again thet the veteran community is key i think very little will change fpr the people who was allready P2P customers.
This have been a good conversation
There's two more trials coming out. The one in the next couple weeks with 20.5 and another one coming with 21. As I said, I really can't argue about if the current trial selection is getting boring or not. I could see how it could be, but not so much for me ... but then again once I got T3s and a couple T4s on my 'main' character I stopped running multiple (as in 6+) trials a day and no only run them every couple of days.
As stated, Justice is the unofficial server of New Zealander and Australian players....it makes sense that its population generally appears low during American game times and suddenly starts thriving late into "America's night".
I've never played this game...I just liked this post a lot...well said !
I played this when it first came out, even kicked around the beta character builder when my friend worked at gamestop. I love this game, its the best Super Hero game out there next to DCU (yes, i enjoyed DCU, i'm a sucker for super hero games) This F2P is really a blessing for me, and since i've already played i get to go premium, but i might go ViP and collect some of those points. The SidebySide stuff is nothing, ViPs get more and premiums get just a little more than Free subs. I really hope this brings in tons of people.
Subscribed since December '05 and still playing this way. If you're not having fun, then what's the point?
Others may disagree with me on this but one thing I'd be willing to pay in an rmt situation is base building things. I've played CoH on and off since launch - never actually made it to 50, complete altitis. 58 vet rewards I believe
Anyway the last couple years I've tried it I'm just bored 3-4 months later. I've done all the classes, tried allmost of the missions... you get the idea. But the bases were fun, however since I was bored with actually leveling my charactrers grinding the prestige was just pure grind. I would pay RL money for a wack of prestige and then just play with the bases for awhile.
Venge
The plan actually looks pretty good to me, even with my personal hate of RMT in games. This allows me to sub and have access to all game content, which is fine. Me and a few of my friends will be returning to give this a go:)
Oh, and for the record, I much MUCH prefer 'newtards' to vet tards... you know the guys that are jaded arrogant dicks that rush content (and screw it up most of the time) and whos elitiest rude attitude dissuades new players from playing. At least you can teach the newb to play- the vet tard think he knows it all already (when I have actually seen more groups in every game wipe due to their asshattery then any other reason).
If you love your game and want it to live, calling newbs 'newtards' is self destructive and ignorant.