I agree with Isabella: good beta testing = good game at launch. Not without problems (it's impossible to find all of them during beta testing), but mostly solved. My last (and, maybe, really last one) was Rift. And was crappy: people that told about problems on form and developer focused only on class balancing. Ok, a good class balancing is important (and, BTW, at launch there wasn't a good one!), but isn't the only or the most important problem on a MMO game. On Final Fantasy XIV beta testing there wasn't a forum: kinda hell! It's seeems thart developer using beta periods, closed or open is the same) not in order to do a good game with only few problems, but only as a marketing window. So mostly MMO are, at launch, in "pay for a beta" satus. And isn't good. Right, Quare/Enix?
Oooh, oooh ... idealism on the internet! A blog of how things "should" work and why everyone else is wrong for not following the rules.
/sigh ... there's a reason people complain while in betas. In the real world, developers are constrained by budgets and time. They have and will continue to ignore broken systems and major bugs in order to get their MMO out the door. That's what's frustrating and and why people have the right to complain during closed beta stages. MMOs have some of the most attorcious bugs even after release and in some cases for years after the initial release. They then tend to build on broken game systems, which is even worse.
In many cases, publishers look at MMOs as a money grab and who gets hurt? The players/consumers who knew 6-12 months before the release that there were problems. Second, companies hide behind NDAs and blog sites and game review sites get everyone hyped up for a game that they may later give a 5/10 or 6/10 to after the game has sold a million copies.
MMOs are a crap shoot because of bad developers and greedy publishers. There needs to be more transparency in the entire MMO development process. Imo, it's good that people stand up, break the rediculous NDAs and let people know what games are really like. I enjoy some MMOs, but I'm tired of the constant crap that gets thrown on the market and the blind hype that they get because many of the issues are hidden behind NDAs.
Back in the day things were very different from now. MMOs were written better and were more challenging. The communities were more respectful and helpful. There used to be an unspoken sense of honor. The games were created by small independent developers. In their forums the developers themselves would often discuss the game with the players to fix bugs and make improvements. These independent developers had to have the help and support of the players. They didn't have the budget to hire testers like most of the big companies do these days.
Now most of the games are made by multi-million dollar comanies. Players are often ignored in favor of advice given by high-paid consultants (who probably don't even play games). The overall MMO gaming community has degraded to mostly spammers and trollers. Open beta is now just another advertising scheme to get people to pre-order the box copy of the game. Closed beta exists to generate hype. Individual players can no longer be relied upon to actually help. Since free trials of games are rare (almost non-existant these days) most players only sign up for the closed beta to try it before they spend money on it.
These days, the majority of the testing is done in the alpha stages by paid testers. I actually worked as a tester while I was in college. Since I honor the NDA(s) I can't tell you which game(s) I was paid to test. During my time as a tester I did "alpha" (pre-release) tests. I was doing the same exact thing I used to do for free in "oldschool" closed beta tests.
Why you're not a beta tester is simply because beta testing isn't what it used to be. MMO gaming went from a small niche community of players and independent developers to a mainstream multi million dollar industry. The developers have larger budgets and can afford to pay people to do the actual testing work. I wasn't paid much as a tester but the fact that I was paid to do something that used to be done for free shows how much things have changed.
In a way its good that MMO gaming is now a part of mainstream culture. It's less "nerdy" now to sit in front of a computer and play a game online with other people. However it is sad in a way too. Players no longer have such a close relationship with the actual developers of their games. I miss the mutual respect between players and devs. You just don't see that anymore. The big companies simply don't have the time to pay any attention to millions of players' comments, complaints or suggestions.
I remember the early days, maybe not as early as you, also. I've seen betas go from "Oh a bug, lets report it" to "Oh cool, I'm in the open beta, I get to preview the game" When people complain its buggy and I remind them its a beta and we're here to bug test, I'm met with "thats not how a beta test works anymore, they do all that with their internal bug testing team" As said previously the 'preview' attitude does lead to the complaining about bugs etc and "I'm not buying this crap", because they expect previews to be the same quality as live. I remember when bug reporting tools were evolving, but it seems they deevolved *puzzled look* from the days where you had to go to the forum to post, to the days you could type /bug and you could post without having to leave what you're doing, reducing bug testing down time. Although, you have to laugh when bugs get squished and the game gets released with non game breaking bugs, such as mines producing donkeys o.0 IMO if they want actual testing to be done they need to screen who they accept better and get the tools in to do so more efficiently and be clear participation is conditional on bug testing, its not a free ride.
I remember the early days, maybe not as early as you, also. I've seen betas go from "Oh a bug, lets report it" to "Oh cool, I'm in the open beta, I get to preview the game" When people complain its buggy and I remind them its a beta and we're here to bug test, I'm met with "thats not how a beta test works anymore, they do all that with their internal bug testing team"
Yep. One of my favorite replies - and I've seen it given in myriad different ways basically boils down to this:
"I'm not going to test their game and report bugs. That's their job. They're not paying me to do their job for them because they're too lazy".
When you point out that they signed up to be a "Beta Tester" not a "Free Previewer". They usually pull the dismissive "Beta = Free Preview and nothing else" card.
Bottom line is... Too many people treat betas as "getting to play the game for free". They don't understand what a beta is. They don't understand what it means or entails. They don't understand that bugs are part of the experience - and man will some of them argue that even closed Beta is supposed to be launch quality. Some of them even feel they're *owed* special treatment by the developer just by merely "gracing" the game with their presence.
The gross sense of entitlement so often displayed by many gamers these days comes out in spades when it comes to beta testing.
In a nutshell: There's a lot of people who need to get the hell over themselves and realize the world doesn't revolve around them and that they aren't special.
IMO if they want actual testing to be done they need to screen who they accept better and get the tools in to do so more efficiently and be clear participation is conditional on bug testing, its not a free ride.
Bingo. I agree completely with this. Except for Open Beta, developers should really start screening people, asking qualifying questions to see what answers are given - and I mean, essay form questions... not multiple choice. And then hold testers to a standard of testing. Most testing applications will ask you how much time a week you can spend testing the game. If someone says "20 hours" then they should be held to at least 75% of that amount of time as actual testing.
People complaining in the Beta forums about things that have everything to do with "complaining about the game as though it's a free preview" and not at all about "discussing issues and bugs that need to be addressed" should be kicked from the beta... immediately... and have someone else waiting in line have their turn.
If developers started being more selective and more strict in their testing requirements, I think we'd see much better results overall.
(What is up with this site's post editor anyway...)
On the other side of the coin, though, developers need to reallly pay attention to what's being said and be more pro-active in acknowledging and highlighting issues that are of key importance - especially ones that come up regularly in individual accounts. A number of developers really *are* a bit ignorant of or arrogant in that regard.
I think SE really screwed up - big time- in that regard with FFXIV. People were telling them things as far back as the first and 2nd Alpha tests that were not good and needed to be adjusted. They assured that "all would be well when the game launched and people would get to see how those systems actually worked". That "all would be fine". Well... the game launched, it got flooded, and those same complaints came back to bite SE in the ass.. many times over. Lo and behold... they're addressing/revising/improving the very things they were told about way back in Alpha anyway... Only now it already cost them in the form of really bad press and the loss of previous players who won't come back, and potential players who have changed their mind. Stupid stupid stupid.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I wanted to be a beta tester for SWTOR becuase I have a lot of personal investment in it (I'm really looking forward to the game), and I felt an obligation to get in and report bugs, suggest balances and all that stuff. Well me and half the free world wanted to get in and what little info comes out of SWTOR's beta makes me happy. I've been hearing that the game is going through massive changes and becoming better every day. That is the kind of news you want to hear from a beta test. That people are doing their jobs.
I beta test to avoid making a bad purchase. I have found (and this is a generilization) most companys could really care less what you say.They have their own agenda and needs and that often has little to do with your input.
I agree.
If you dont pay your beta testers anything then you can't expect anything out of them. Somewhere it said something about doing your job as a tester. Sorry but I get paid to do my job, anything else is just an activity that I do because I want to and as such don't do anything I don't like to.
So if gaming companies want beta testers that actually do real testing, they should do as any other company and hire real testers. So for now I just see beta testing as a preview of a game to come and nothing more.
Are YOU willing to pay extra for this? I'm guessing not. You're one of the reasons games fail now
It really comes down to how the company handles their beta, so in effect both opinions here are correct.
I beta'd STO and they didn't care what we said so with the exception of getting an early look at the game (and knowing not to buy it) it was just wasted time.
At the other end, I beta'd Gods and Hero's and can tell you Heatwave went out of their way to listen and make changes where they could. And if they couldn't they'd come out and tell us that. Communications in both directions; what a concept.
Another that I'd have to consider still in an extended beta would be Vendetta Online. They don't call it a beta but it pretty much still is and the dev's are willing to listen to the player base and make the needed changes, including adding in player produced material / missions.
Too often beta inviters go in with the thought of "I'm just playing to see if I should spend money on it" and that's not the how anyone should look at a closed beta. Open beta ...... well that just might be a different matter.
Apparently if you tested STO and think they did nothing you were not paing attention. I tested it from closed beta all the way to launch up until launch they had patchs ever single day fixing things just because they did not fix what YOU wanted does not mean they did nothing, after launch they put a lot of work into going back over the bugs and running more patches to fix things. The STO team has worked very hard. It is not there fault if most of the people that came running could not understand the concept of starship battles.
I've sworn off beta tests. I want to be helpful, to be a good citizen of the online community, but debugging feels like a job rather than a game. I also find that I don't play on a beta server at all like I would on a production server - I just don't get the same attachment with my character, the same investment in the world, knowing that it will all get wiped. I fondly remember a developer once coming up and asking to adventure with me and I just flat out paniced ... I simply couldn't function knowing that I was being watched.
I agree entirley, mostly because it is all true. Beta testing use to be a badge of honor nothing more but, the sad reality is that there has been a huge influx of people that care nothing for the game and only want to complain or mention a potential problem when it affects there ability to be "cool" normally being cool is defined by them having knowledge of a particular exploit or bug and acting like they are better then someone when really they are so pathetic they have to cheat to win.
SOE made more then there far share of mistakes imo but, on the other side of the coin when they tried to test new content before it went live the servers were more about players tring to figure out which exploit they could make it into live with for the same reason as stated in my first paragraph. The funny part was the very same people were the ones that whined and cried the loudest when it went live with all bugs. Well, maybe if you had actually tested rather then tried to figure out how to cheat to win, perhaps a few more things would have gotten fixed.
Gamers in general have gone down hill, everyone thinks that they HAVE to be that first guy to the top or they have to be the first with this or that, to that end they generally lie, cheat or exploit to be the first as if that means anything. They bypass all content or figure out how to exploit the grinding system in there rush to the top and then sit and complain about how bored they are. I knew people in STO that spent all there time in battlegroup sectors grinding to the top and never bothered with the missions, then as I mentioned complained that there was no content when they made the top lvl, well, dummy all those missions you ignored WAS the content.
A very small amount of people, speaking in relation to the huge number of people that play mmo's, have any concept of team work or what a GROUP mission means, wow was by far the worst example of this, people were so utterly lazy that they had jump exploits and wall cheats down pat so they could avoid the content and then had the nerve to complain about the lack of content in the forums. When you dodge the content cheating and exploiting your way there you have no room complaining about the content.
Sadly the current generation of gamer seems to come to the new beta thinking the devs owe them something, they want every thing handed to them and whine when they don't get it. That was the driving force behind the major changes that ruined SWG many people simpley were not smart enough to plan there own skill trees so they cried till SOE ruined the game to plz there lazy butts.
Wow, was never a hard game to learn, the vanilla instances were a challenge sure but, with some thought and a few friends they were doable it just took awhile to sort out the correct path. Once again lazy people cried untill they turned the game down, just before cat came out I grinded a hunter from lvl 1 to 78 in under a week doing only npc quest. sad really sad.
Raceing games have suffered the same fate, most of them when there first came out featured extensive customizing options, you could spend hours tweaking your cars that was before you even took them to a race, now it is all cookie cutter, get a car it has these stats, this package will give you those stats and rarely anything more then a handful of tokken mod options so you end up with the same car as everyone else. if your lucky you might get to choose a color not likely though. Tune your engine ? no chance. Modify your transmission ? nope nada.
Need for speed world being the most glaring example of this currently once you spend the 2-3 min it takes to go through all available mod options, you go to race and low and behold no one knows how to drive, 99% of the people in nfs world rely on ramming people into walls to win because of there lack of ablity to drive.
I could go on and on listing many games, sadly this is the current trend, games for stupid people, by stupid people. I do hope the trend breaks soon as I so miss the games that required you to think even if just a little. A new one that required you to think would be refreashing.
"There’s absolutely nothing wrong with free previews or open beta . . ."
Couldn't disagree more. Beta's have been a huge part of the decline of the genre. You have "privileged" guilds get into betas and work through the entire game; learning how to complete every dungeon, learning the best way/places to level, and how to best farm gold. When the game goes live, they ruin the in-game economy and any sense of wonder within the first 2 weeks.
Also, instead of using beta testers to test and comment on the state of the game, developers now just dump the game on beta testers and let them find the bugs. Whatsmore, the norm over the past few years is to totally ignore the player base when they find any real changes that need to be made. So while I am generally against people being beta testers just to demo a game, as long as the developers keep ducking their duties to test and evaluate the game, I can't really blame those who do.
Some beta testers appear to be looking in the wrong place for the right answer. There is never a good reason to break your word and comment outside the beta forums. If you are a true tester, wether you signed a nda or just accepted the liscense agreement, the very best you can do is tell the devs what you find both good and bad about their game, if they dont listen or simply lack the skill to implement the changes you have done all you can and the market will tell if your recommended changes were critical orr not. Either way, break your word and its only you that looks bad. Open betas usually are pretty much load testing and a free preview...for which I am supremely thankful. In the early days you had to buy it to see what it was like, assuming you were not a pirate of course. 14 closed betas and counting, 0 open game specific posts.
I agree completely that a lot of people join Betas for personal reasons and to get experience with a game as a free preview. This is only amplified by "realm first" style achievements and to get ahead of others in the game upon release.
While I agree with a lot of points the OP made, the quote below is not something I agree upon.
"Seriously. Oh, and while we’re at it: read the bloody patch notes, kthx.
Maybe we’re just whinier in general these days. I don’t rise to the bait anymore (much), but it still irks me when I see people complaining about how they’re paying to test a game because it still has bugs after launch. Get real. MMOs are basically works in progress, especially since we’re constantly asking for changes and content additions. Most of the software we pay for has bugs, not just the games, yet we don’t see people bitching about those nearly as much; and I can’t even blame the gaming community for being too young to know better, because according to the statistics, most of us are well out of our parents’ basement. Of course, age is no guarantee of maturity."
1. Patch notes are horribly lacking these days. While I do not expect a changelog level of patch notes, they leave out a lot of things they should not. Things that have players testing and experimenting to find. Then, they run to the forums to ask questions of others and share experience. This usually ends with "Why the stealth change/nerf/buff?". If they would just put the change in the notes, people could move on with testing instead of trying to figure out what changed and why first. Also, did they deem a change not worth reporting or are their QA procedures lacking? Probably both.
2. MMOs are a work in progress, but that is not an excuse for bad QA. As I've said before, I'm not naive enough to think any software is bug free. But, obvious bugs that are found within minutes of release under non-obscure situations are usually bad testing or bad code auditing. Bad QA. If you think other industries get less complaints over bugs, your internet travels must be pretty tunnel focused. Add to that, other genres of software have people who tolerate bugs less, have more competition to consider losing customers to, and fire people who are at the unprofessional level of a lot of game companies. In some industries, a bug can cost lives. We expect more and better of every piece of software that has a revision number. No one is exempt.
3. It's not the customers that are young, it's the MMO industry. A lot of people base things off of previous experience. Better experiences raise the bar of expectations. The bar never goes down. It just hasn't been set real high by the experiences of most MMOs.
Different forms of 'Beta' are being lumped together. Actual testing and preview voyeurs aren't working the same territory. When I heard a developer mention the 'marketing beta', it was obvious what he was talking about.
As for the bug fixing, it is all a matter of trade offs: How important is the problem? How many man hours will it take to fix, how much money? Is there something more critical? Did we just lay off the only two people who knew that area of the engine well? Etc. An MMO is like a giant oil tanker. It does not change direction swiftly.
There is no magic 'fixit' wand.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
"You people that go out of your way to try and break a game in testing need to find other things to occupy your time...like a job that pays actual money, for instance."
Seriously? That's your argument? I run my own company and I make a decent living. I could make some crack about people who post on forums instead of getting a job that pays actual money, but I don't particularly like to insult people to make myself feel better.
"They apply for the closed stages, get in, and then spend most of their time on the forums or in the global channel complaining about how a game in development still has bugs. Gee, you think? Suck it up, pull your socks up and do your job as a tester by reporting on what you find, or just shut the hell up and go elsewhere. Seriously. Oh, and while we’re at it: read the bloody patch notes, kthx."
While I don't like this as well, there is one thing that I hate more...And that's the people that keep using the fact that a game is in the "Beta" as an excuse for everything. As soon as you mention something even remotely negative, constructive or not, doesn't matter - They fiercely jump at you, bashing your head in while screaming "It's in BETA!"
I still tend to look at closed alpha/beta as a privileged sneak peek but one i take seriously when it comes to the NDA and helping find repeatable quirks or trying certain areas or things out for the devs if they want..
The last couple of closed betas i was in the devs didnt seem interested in repeatedly reported bugs or constructive criticism on what many testers felt was poorly implemented ideas and now both those games are dead..
I love dev teams that work really hard with their testers to make a great game but there are many more devs that really dont seem to care these days...
So i tend to wait until open beta to get a preview these days unless its a dev team working on something that has potential and that really wants help or input from a seasoned tester..
And yes it is horrible when players break nda and theres no real way to effectively counter their rants without being in violation yourself..
I beta test to avoid making a bad purchase. I have found (and this is a generilization) most companys could really care less what you say.They have their own agenda and needs and that often has little to do with your input.
I beta test to avoid making a bad purchase. I have found (and this is a generilization) most companys could really care less what you say.They have their own agenda and needs and that often has little to do with your input.
I agree.
If you dont pay your beta testers anything then you can't expect anything out of them. Somewhere it said something about doing your job as a tester. Sorry but I get paid to do my job, anything else is just an activity that I do because I want to and as such don't do anything I don't like to.
So if gaming companies want beta testers that actually do real testing, they should do as any other company and hire real testers. So for now I just see beta testing as a preview of a game to come and nothing more.
It's this entitled attitude that ruins games. Beta testing is a volunteer basis and you are expected to do a job out of passion for the product. Do you dign up for other types of volunteer work, sit on your ass, and then complain you aren't being paid? No, you don't. And if you do, something is wrong with you.
People with this attitude are getting beta slots and stealing them from people who deserve them, who will do their job - testing the game and providing feedback. Do the gaming world a favor, if your aren't there to test - STOP APPLYING TO BE A TESTER. Then you turn around and bitch that bugs aren't fixed when the game releases... I wonder why? Or, you'll simply spread false information about how crappy or buggy a game is that you played in the beta phase.
Someone has already proposed this I suppose, but how about giving us a MMORPG checklist for Beta test that we can reflect here once the specific NDA has dropped. A standard for all. Just saying...
After reading these posts, I am glad I have not been in a beta. I thought I wanted to be in the bata but if I am going to do a lot of work miss out on storyline on the launch and not be listened to well I will just play the games I play. I will stil report bugs as I find them, and hope they are fixed.
Most companies do emply in-house testers, but they aren't testing on every available hardware / software configuration and even if you have 50 of them (testers that is) they're a drop in the ocean running through content. Chances are in-house testers will miss quite a few bugs that could seriously adversely affect players. It's just common sense.
If you have a community out there who already have a proven (or at least stated) interest in playing your game it makes sense to do a bit of quid pro quo - you get an early look if you report back on your impressions of the game and any bugs you run into. For me, that's what beta testing has always been about, give and take.
I've tested plenty of MMOs and I agree with what many people have already mentioned (and Isabelle pointed out in the article) as regards developers choosing to ignore feeback from testers. I was in the FFXIV beta and quit it in sheer frustration and how little testers (who were all screaming from the same hymn sheet as the Alpha testers) were listened to. Worst testing experience of my life, and it really put me off testing. But then there are companies like Trion who are very responsive to feedback and actually change things based on players reports. Rift isn't my idea of a great game, but Trion truly did listen to their testers, and they delivered a very polished product at launch. I'll always give them props for that.
For those saying it's not "their job" to test a product... well, no, of course it's not. But filling in a /bug sheet takes less than a minute - if you consider that work, then I just don't know what to say. /bugging gives the devs a heads-up and makes a better product for launch, which makes life happier for a big tranche of gamers who have a game that works better and with as few hiccups as possible straight out the gate. It's not altruism, it's not charity, it's simply quid pro quo.
I beta test to avoid making a bad purchase. I have found (and this is a generilization) most companys could really care less what you say.They have their own agenda and needs and that often has little to do with your input.
True enough. I have done more beta tests than I can count and it always seems that the beta forums are largely ignored. Major issues or conflicts arise and the characteristic we'll get to it appears and nothing ever happens.
Comments
I agree with Isabella: good beta testing = good game at launch. Not without problems (it's impossible to find all of them during beta testing), but mostly solved. My last (and, maybe, really last one) was Rift. And was crappy: people that told about problems on form and developer focused only on class balancing. Ok, a good class balancing is important (and, BTW, at launch there wasn't a good one!), but isn't the only or the most important problem on a MMO game. On Final Fantasy XIV beta testing there wasn't a forum: kinda hell! It's seeems thart developer using beta periods, closed or open is the same) not in order to do a good game with only few problems, but only as a marketing window. So mostly MMO are, at launch, in "pay for a beta" satus. And isn't good. Right, Quare/Enix?
My blog about (no more)MMORPG Addicted - a bog about videogames, cinema, politics and other things (in Italian)
Sorry for typos, i miss my glasses
My blog about (no more)MMORPG Addicted - a bog about videogames, cinema, politics and other things (in Italian)
Oooh, oooh ... idealism on the internet! A blog of how things "should" work and why everyone else is wrong for not following the rules.
/sigh ... there's a reason people complain while in betas. In the real world, developers are constrained by budgets and time. They have and will continue to ignore broken systems and major bugs in order to get their MMO out the door. That's what's frustrating and and why people have the right to complain during closed beta stages. MMOs have some of the most attorcious bugs even after release and in some cases for years after the initial release. They then tend to build on broken game systems, which is even worse.
In many cases, publishers look at MMOs as a money grab and who gets hurt? The players/consumers who knew 6-12 months before the release that there were problems. Second, companies hide behind NDAs and blog sites and game review sites get everyone hyped up for a game that they may later give a 5/10 or 6/10 to after the game has sold a million copies.
MMOs are a crap shoot because of bad developers and greedy publishers. There needs to be more transparency in the entire MMO development process. Imo, it's good that people stand up, break the rediculous NDAs and let people know what games are really like. I enjoy some MMOs, but I'm tired of the constant crap that gets thrown on the market and the blind hype that they get because many of the issues are hidden behind NDAs.
If you don't worry about it, it's not a problem.
Back in the day things were very different from now. MMOs were written better and were more challenging. The communities were more respectful and helpful. There used to be an unspoken sense of honor. The games were created by small independent developers. In their forums the developers themselves would often discuss the game with the players to fix bugs and make improvements. These independent developers had to have the help and support of the players. They didn't have the budget to hire testers like most of the big companies do these days.
Now most of the games are made by multi-million dollar comanies. Players are often ignored in favor of advice given by high-paid consultants (who probably don't even play games). The overall MMO gaming community has degraded to mostly spammers and trollers. Open beta is now just another advertising scheme to get people to pre-order the box copy of the game. Closed beta exists to generate hype. Individual players can no longer be relied upon to actually help. Since free trials of games are rare (almost non-existant these days) most players only sign up for the closed beta to try it before they spend money on it.
These days, the majority of the testing is done in the alpha stages by paid testers. I actually worked as a tester while I was in college. Since I honor the NDA(s) I can't tell you which game(s) I was paid to test. During my time as a tester I did "alpha" (pre-release) tests. I was doing the same exact thing I used to do for free in "oldschool" closed beta tests.
Why you're not a beta tester is simply because beta testing isn't what it used to be. MMO gaming went from a small niche community of players and independent developers to a mainstream multi million dollar industry. The developers have larger budgets and can afford to pay people to do the actual testing work. I wasn't paid much as a tester but the fact that I was paid to do something that used to be done for free shows how much things have changed.
In a way its good that MMO gaming is now a part of mainstream culture. It's less "nerdy" now to sit in front of a computer and play a game online with other people. However it is sad in a way too. Players no longer have such a close relationship with the actual developers of their games. I miss the mutual respect between players and devs. You just don't see that anymore. The big companies simply don't have the time to pay any attention to millions of players' comments, complaints or suggestions.
I remember the early days, maybe not as early as you, also. I've seen betas go from "Oh a bug, lets report it" to "Oh cool, I'm in the open beta, I get to preview the game" When people complain its buggy and I remind them its a beta and we're here to bug test, I'm met with "thats not how a beta test works anymore, they do all that with their internal bug testing team" As said previously the 'preview' attitude does lead to the complaining about bugs etc and "I'm not buying this crap", because they expect previews to be the same quality as live. I remember when bug reporting tools were evolving, but it seems they deevolved *puzzled look* from the days where you had to go to the forum to post, to the days you could type /bug and you could post without having to leave what you're doing, reducing bug testing down time. Although, you have to laugh when bugs get squished and the game gets released with non game breaking bugs, such as mines producing donkeys o.0 IMO if they want actual testing to be done they need to screen who they accept better and get the tools in to do so more efficiently and be clear participation is conditional on bug testing, its not a free ride.
Then you are not really a beta tester, are you?
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I wanted to be a beta tester for SWTOR becuase I have a lot of personal investment in it (I'm really looking forward to the game), and I felt an obligation to get in and report bugs, suggest balances and all that stuff. Well me and half the free world wanted to get in and what little info comes out of SWTOR's beta makes me happy. I've been hearing that the game is going through massive changes and becoming better every day. That is the kind of news you want to hear from a beta test. That people are doing their jobs.
Are YOU willing to pay extra for this? I'm guessing not. You're one of the reasons games fail now
Apparently if you tested STO and think they did nothing you were not paing attention. I tested it from closed beta all the way to launch up until launch they had patchs ever single day fixing things just because they did not fix what YOU wanted does not mean they did nothing, after launch they put a lot of work into going back over the bugs and running more patches to fix things. The STO team has worked very hard. It is not there fault if most of the people that came running could not understand the concept of starship battles.
I've sworn off beta tests. I want to be helpful, to be a good citizen of the online community, but debugging feels like a job rather than a game. I also find that I don't play on a beta server at all like I would on a production server - I just don't get the same attachment with my character, the same investment in the world, knowing that it will all get wiped. I fondly remember a developer once coming up and asking to adventure with me and I just flat out paniced ... I simply couldn't function knowing that I was being watched.
I agree entirley, mostly because it is all true. Beta testing use to be a badge of honor nothing more but, the sad reality is that there has been a huge influx of people that care nothing for the game and only want to complain or mention a potential problem when it affects there ability to be "cool" normally being cool is defined by them having knowledge of a particular exploit or bug and acting like they are better then someone when really they are so pathetic they have to cheat to win.
SOE made more then there far share of mistakes imo but, on the other side of the coin when they tried to test new content before it went live the servers were more about players tring to figure out which exploit they could make it into live with for the same reason as stated in my first paragraph. The funny part was the very same people were the ones that whined and cried the loudest when it went live with all bugs. Well, maybe if you had actually tested rather then tried to figure out how to cheat to win, perhaps a few more things would have gotten fixed.
Gamers in general have gone down hill, everyone thinks that they HAVE to be that first guy to the top or they have to be the first with this or that, to that end they generally lie, cheat or exploit to be the first as if that means anything. They bypass all content or figure out how to exploit the grinding system in there rush to the top and then sit and complain about how bored they are. I knew people in STO that spent all there time in battlegroup sectors grinding to the top and never bothered with the missions, then as I mentioned complained that there was no content when they made the top lvl, well, dummy all those missions you ignored WAS the content.
A very small amount of people, speaking in relation to the huge number of people that play mmo's, have any concept of team work or what a GROUP mission means, wow was by far the worst example of this, people were so utterly lazy that they had jump exploits and wall cheats down pat so they could avoid the content and then had the nerve to complain about the lack of content in the forums. When you dodge the content cheating and exploiting your way there you have no room complaining about the content.
Sadly the current generation of gamer seems to come to the new beta thinking the devs owe them something, they want every thing handed to them and whine when they don't get it. That was the driving force behind the major changes that ruined SWG many people simpley were not smart enough to plan there own skill trees so they cried till SOE ruined the game to plz there lazy butts.
Wow, was never a hard game to learn, the vanilla instances were a challenge sure but, with some thought and a few friends they were doable it just took awhile to sort out the correct path. Once again lazy people cried untill they turned the game down, just before cat came out I grinded a hunter from lvl 1 to 78 in under a week doing only npc quest. sad really sad.
Raceing games have suffered the same fate, most of them when there first came out featured extensive customizing options, you could spend hours tweaking your cars that was before you even took them to a race, now it is all cookie cutter, get a car it has these stats, this package will give you those stats and rarely anything more then a handful of tokken mod options so you end up with the same car as everyone else. if your lucky you might get to choose a color not likely though. Tune your engine ? no chance. Modify your transmission ? nope nada.
Need for speed world being the most glaring example of this currently once you spend the 2-3 min it takes to go through all available mod options, you go to race and low and behold no one knows how to drive, 99% of the people in nfs world rely on ramming people into walls to win because of there lack of ablity to drive.
I could go on and on listing many games, sadly this is the current trend, games for stupid people, by stupid people. I do hope the trend breaks soon as I so miss the games that required you to think even if just a little. A new one that required you to think would be refreashing.
"There’s absolutely nothing wrong with free previews or open beta . . ."
Couldn't disagree more. Beta's have been a huge part of the decline of the genre. You have "privileged" guilds get into betas and work through the entire game; learning how to complete every dungeon, learning the best way/places to level, and how to best farm gold. When the game goes live, they ruin the in-game economy and any sense of wonder within the first 2 weeks.
Also, instead of using beta testers to test and comment on the state of the game, developers now just dump the game on beta testers and let them find the bugs. Whatsmore, the norm over the past few years is to totally ignore the player base when they find any real changes that need to be made. So while I am generally against people being beta testers just to demo a game, as long as the developers keep ducking their duties to test and evaluate the game, I can't really blame those who do.
Slayer
I agree completely that a lot of people join Betas for personal reasons and to get experience with a game as a free preview. This is only amplified by "realm first" style achievements and to get ahead of others in the game upon release.
While I agree with a lot of points the OP made, the quote below is not something I agree upon.
"Seriously. Oh, and while we’re at it: read the bloody patch notes, kthx.
Maybe we’re just whinier in general these days. I don’t rise to the bait anymore (much), but it still irks me when I see people complaining about how they’re paying to test a game because it still has bugs after launch. Get real. MMOs are basically works in progress, especially since we’re constantly asking for changes and content additions. Most of the software we pay for has bugs, not just the games, yet we don’t see people bitching about those nearly as much; and I can’t even blame the gaming community for being too young to know better, because according to the statistics, most of us are well out of our parents’ basement. Of course, age is no guarantee of maturity."
1. Patch notes are horribly lacking these days. While I do not expect a changelog level of patch notes, they leave out a lot of things they should not. Things that have players testing and experimenting to find. Then, they run to the forums to ask questions of others and share experience. This usually ends with "Why the stealth change/nerf/buff?". If they would just put the change in the notes, people could move on with testing instead of trying to figure out what changed and why first. Also, did they deem a change not worth reporting or are their QA procedures lacking? Probably both.
2. MMOs are a work in progress, but that is not an excuse for bad QA. As I've said before, I'm not naive enough to think any software is bug free. But, obvious bugs that are found within minutes of release under non-obscure situations are usually bad testing or bad code auditing. Bad QA. If you think other industries get less complaints over bugs, your internet travels must be pretty tunnel focused. Add to that, other genres of software have people who tolerate bugs less, have more competition to consider losing customers to, and fire people who are at the unprofessional level of a lot of game companies. In some industries, a bug can cost lives. We expect more and better of every piece of software that has a revision number. No one is exempt.
3. It's not the customers that are young, it's the MMO industry. A lot of people base things off of previous experience. Better experiences raise the bar of expectations. The bar never goes down. It just hasn't been set real high by the experiences of most MMOs.
Different forms of 'Beta' are being lumped together. Actual testing and preview voyeurs aren't working the same territory. When I heard a developer mention the 'marketing beta', it was obvious what he was talking about.
As for the bug fixing, it is all a matter of trade offs: How important is the problem? How many man hours will it take to fix, how much money? Is there something more critical? Did we just lay off the only two people who knew that area of the engine well? Etc. An MMO is like a giant oil tanker. It does not change direction swiftly.
There is no magic 'fixit' wand.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
"You people that go out of your way to try and break a game in testing need to find other things to occupy your time...like a job that pays actual money, for instance."
Seriously? That's your argument? I run my own company and I make a decent living. I could make some crack about people who post on forums instead of getting a job that pays actual money, but I don't particularly like to insult people to make myself feel better.
To everyone else - thanks for the comments.
"They apply for the closed stages, get in, and then spend most of their time on the forums or in the global channel complaining about how a game in development still has bugs. Gee, you think? Suck it up, pull your socks up and do your job as a tester by reporting on what you find, or just shut the hell up and go elsewhere. Seriously. Oh, and while we’re at it: read the bloody patch notes, kthx."
While I don't like this as well, there is one thing that I hate more...And that's the people that keep using the fact that a game is in the "Beta" as an excuse for everything. As soon as you mention something even remotely negative, constructive or not, doesn't matter - They fiercely jump at you, bashing your head in while screaming "It's in BETA!"
I guess you normally would call them fanboys...
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Very good article and topic here.. thanks!
I still tend to look at closed alpha/beta as a privileged sneak peek but one i take seriously when it comes to the NDA and helping find repeatable quirks or trying certain areas or things out for the devs if they want..
The last couple of closed betas i was in the devs didnt seem interested in repeatedly reported bugs or constructive criticism on what many testers felt was poorly implemented ideas and now both those games are dead..
I love dev teams that work really hard with their testers to make a great game but there are many more devs that really dont seem to care these days...
So i tend to wait until open beta to get a preview these days unless its a dev team working on something that has potential and that really wants help or input from a seasoned tester..
And yes it is horrible when players break nda and theres no real way to effectively counter their rants without being in violation yourself..
Playing GW2..
It's this entitled attitude that ruins games. Beta testing is a volunteer basis and you are expected to do a job out of passion for the product. Do you dign up for other types of volunteer work, sit on your ass, and then complain you aren't being paid? No, you don't. And if you do, something is wrong with you.
People with this attitude are getting beta slots and stealing them from people who deserve them, who will do their job - testing the game and providing feedback. Do the gaming world a favor, if your aren't there to test - STOP APPLYING TO BE A TESTER. Then you turn around and bitch that bugs aren't fixed when the game releases... I wonder why? Or, you'll simply spread false information about how crappy or buggy a game is that you played in the beta phase.
Someone has already proposed this I suppose, but how about giving us a MMORPG checklist for Beta test that we can reflect here once the specific NDA has dropped. A standard for all. Just saying...
After reading these posts, I am glad I have not been in a beta. I thought I wanted to be in the bata but if I am going to do a lot of work miss out on storyline on the launch and not be listened to well I will just play the games I play. I will stil report bugs as I find them, and hope they are fixed.
Wolf0351
WaRPiGs
www.warpigsmmo.com
Most companies do emply in-house testers, but they aren't testing on every available hardware / software configuration and even if you have 50 of them (testers that is) they're a drop in the ocean running through content. Chances are in-house testers will miss quite a few bugs that could seriously adversely affect players. It's just common sense.
If you have a community out there who already have a proven (or at least stated) interest in playing your game it makes sense to do a bit of quid pro quo - you get an early look if you report back on your impressions of the game and any bugs you run into. For me, that's what beta testing has always been about, give and take.
I've tested plenty of MMOs and I agree with what many people have already mentioned (and Isabelle pointed out in the article) as regards developers choosing to ignore feeback from testers. I was in the FFXIV beta and quit it in sheer frustration and how little testers (who were all screaming from the same hymn sheet as the Alpha testers) were listened to. Worst testing experience of my life, and it really put me off testing. But then there are companies like Trion who are very responsive to feedback and actually change things based on players reports. Rift isn't my idea of a great game, but Trion truly did listen to their testers, and they delivered a very polished product at launch. I'll always give them props for that.
For those saying it's not "their job" to test a product... well, no, of course it's not. But filling in a /bug sheet takes less than a minute - if you consider that work, then I just don't know what to say. /bugging gives the devs a heads-up and makes a better product for launch, which makes life happier for a big tranche of gamers who have a game that works better and with as few hiccups as possible straight out the gate. It's not altruism, it's not charity, it's simply quid pro quo.
True enough. I have done more beta tests than I can count and it always seems that the beta forums are largely ignored. Major issues or conflicts arise and the characteristic we'll get to it appears and nothing ever happens.