Archage looks cool! now, lets see if it's ftp or not ...... i .. will .. never .. support .. itemshop. And i will never support online gambling either.
I think that it is fair to avoid calling GW2 a themepark if only because the personal story can branch in ways that depend upon the decisions of the player. By this logic, SWTOR would be the same...but I think that such things hardly matter in SWTOR's case, as it already has the lable of WoW in space or Bioware MMO (depending on how you feel about the game).
does this matter? yes and no. I think that the people who hate "themepark" games aren't looking for a game so much as a world, a "sandbox" to play in. I think that this small percentage of the online gaming community is campaigning for something they feel has been lost since the days of EQ and UO, but I don't think they realize that the desire to make MMOs more a GAME rather than a WORLD is something that the majority of the community supports.
so...what would a themepark, that allows more freedom to choose what one does, be? What would an MMO that is trying to be a game with lots of content from a lot of different perspectives based on in game choices be? would this be something MORE than a simple themepark game? I think so. The problem is this. It doesn't matter what you call something. GW2 is GW2. Its not a themepark. its not some weird hybrid of sandbox and themepark either. It is simply the game that Anet is making...the game they are working hard to make better than any other MMO that came before it. A game that they actually want to play. I want to play it, too. Odds are, you want to play it.
one last thing...because this is a game, and because it is a story driven game at that, the fact that you can play with a world of people who have differing stories is very cool. I suspect you will all wind up in one of 3 endings, based on which of the 3 major factions you pick (factions with differeing views about how to defeat the dragons).
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
gw 2 is and will be only themepark, it has no major sandbox features. So try all you want, its only a themepark. Howgh
geez...so binary. learn some algebra.
This is how I see it working
(X=-10) is sandbox, (X=0) is something in the middle, and (X=10) is themepark. More than themepark means X+a where X=appprox. 10. X+a=Y where Y is whatever GW2 is. Note. All values for X are meant as positional coordinates, and not as values. I wouldn't wan't to make you sandbox folks feel bad about yourselves. Its not like a themeparker with no idea what he is talking about matters to you...is it?
Anyways... why does this even matter. Some people like that kind of thing (sandbox) and some people like something else. Posting here isn't going to change whether the game appeals to you. Posting here isn't likely to change other peoples opinions either. some people see a label, and make there decisions based on that alone. I think thats an amazingly lazy frame of mind. This is a game. Not just some online chat room...
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
Yeah GW2 is a themepark. It isnt more than a themepark. It isnt less than or equal to or sandboxy or any of that shit. Get over it. Just be happy that it has some brand new kick ass rides.
I think what a lot of people are failing to realize here is the little minor innovations that should make Guild Wars 2 underwater combat unique and fun.
In games like EQ, WoW, and Rift underwater combat is tedious. You have to manage your breath meter if you don't have some means of underwater breathing (which is usually applied through some buff that also has to be managed). The depth (Z axis) makes pathfinding a pain, which was especially apparent in EQ where MOBs would aggro if they saw another aggro'd MOB pass by, causing a huge train due to awful pathfinding. Kedge was especially tedious and rarely visited except to finish the occassional epic weapon from the boss there (Phineas or whatever his name was). EQ would have been better off not having the zone at all.
In GW2 there is no breath meter, and the underwater environments already look way more fleshed out than anything we've seen in the past. It's a little innovation that should have been done long ago. Also, your skills completely change while underwater, so just by diving into the water you now have what is essentially a new skill set so it's like rolling a whole other character without actually having to reroll. In other MMOs you want to avoid underwater levels at all costs, but in GW2 you'll probably will WANT to go underwater.
Groundbreaking? Maybe not, but a refreshing improvement? Probably. More than a Themepark? I wouldn't say that, though I hate the term themepark and sandbox in general. We've already seen (as mentioned above) lots of videos showing off the little innovations (and larger ones) like these, gameplay videos that seem well polished ("release ready") so it's hard not to be excited for this game, at least for me anyway.
Originally posted by Slampig 3D...!?!?! Underwater environment...!?!?!? Groundbreaking? No... Kedge Keep....
I think what a lot of people are failing to realize here is....
Nobody fails to realize what GW2 is doing with underwater combat. We've been getting beat over the head with it for the past week. I think what some people fail to realize is not everybody thinks the underwater combat is amazing. Believe it or not, some of us have been playing video games for 30+ years and have played just about every type of game and major title. Im happy that youre super excited and I think its pretty cool too. But you gotta stop trying to convince people to be as excited as you. Its an exercise in futility.
I am a bit disappointed to see ArenaNet following in the Blizzard tradition of granting access to selected guilds, already creating somewhat of an elitist's club before the game has even launched. Not everyone who plays cares to be part of a guild, big or otherwise.
ArenaNet, people are already excited about the game, you don't have to give special treatment to guilds and fansites to generate interest. Your best feedback is going to come from the people who just play the game, without having a major vested interest in it.
The writer was speaking about GW1 in the first paragraph. The Domain of Anguish is a GW1 area. So no Anet hasn't done anything that you seem to be claiming.
Originally posted by Zeroxin Originally posted by Timacek gw 2 is and will be only themepark, it has no major sandbox features. So try all you want, its only a themepark. Howgh
Isn't affecting the world based on a decision a sandbox feature? no. thats a game feature.
It's helpful to realize that once you hit a certain point, the more the sandbox a game is, the less of a game it is.. Because a game with total freedom isn't a game.
Games are made out of rules. :T
Too much freedom and you end up with Second Life. *shakes people vigorously* IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT?
Where did the article say anything about sandboxes? 'More than a theme park' doesn't mean GW2 is going to be more sandboxy in any way. It just means, that with it's dynamic events, branching storylines, active combat, no holy trinity, amazing visuals, etc. is going to bring a much better experience than your regular themeparks we're used to imo.
Imagine it as a next-gen themepark, or themepark+.
Where did the article say anything about sandboxes? 'More than a theme park' doesn't mean GW2 is going to be more sandboxy in any way. It just means, that with it's dynamic events, branching storylines, active combat, no holy trinity, amazing visuals, etc. is going to bring a much better experience than your regular themeparks we're used to imo.
Imagine it as a next-gen themepark, or themepark+.
Because to many people here, Sandbox > Themepark.
So if it's more than a themepark, it must be a sandbox!
Sort of like how if something is 'more than a sandwich', it must be a pizza. :9
Originally posted by Meowhead Originally posted by CookieTime Where did the article say anything about sandboxes? 'More than a theme park' doesn't mean GW2 is going to be more sandboxy in any way. It just means, that with it's dynamic events, branching storylines, active combat, no holy trinity, amazing visuals, etc. is going to bring a much better experience than your regular themeparks we're used to imo. Imagine it as a next-gen themepark, or themepark+.
Because to many people here, Sandbox > Themepark. So if it's more than a themepark, it must be a sandbox! Sort of like how if something is 'more than a sandwich', it must be a pizza. :9 This reminds me of that old Simpsons episode when they were at Lollapalooza. Two teenagers are standing there listening to a band. One says, "Well this music is just great." The other kid asks, "Are you being sarcastic?", to which the first kid replies, "I dont even know anymore."
Thats like half the threads in this place. So much info being misinterpreted who the hell knows what anybody really even means half the time.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
gw 2 is and will be only themepark, it has no major sandbox features. So try all you want, its only a themepark. Howgh
Isn't affecting the world based on a decision a sandbox feature?
no. thats a game feature.
And the feature is most common among sandbox games....but Okay let me put it a different way. Isn't affecting other people's gameplay based on a decision you made a sandbox feature?
And the feature is most common among sandbox games....but Okay let me put it a different way. Isn't affecting other people's gameplay based on a decision you made a sandbox feature?
This would mean that pvp is a sandbox feature.
Maybe it's better to see sandbox features in the light of 'emergent gameplay'. Sandbox features can be said to provide tools and mechanics to influence the game world in unscripted ways.
That's why you could say that building player houses and cities wherever you liked in SWG was sandbox, while player cities and houses in LotrO and AoC isn't.
Or take DE's, they're dev provided content that are scripted in their outcomes and resolutions, each stage or setting they can have is scripted and programmed. The heavy influence and direction that the devs have on this feature makes it non-sandbox. It is an interesting addition as a themepark feature though, one I expect to see more in other MMO's as well, dynamic PvE content.
Originally posted by DarkPony
Sorry Mav but I really think "water park" is better.
Ah, but you only showed part of the park, the oceanic section. Tsk, the park is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa- coughs -aaaaar bigger
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Originally posted by Zeroxin Originally posted by Foomerang
Originally posted by Zeroxin
Originally posted by Timacek gw 2 is and will be only themepark, it has no major sandbox features. So try all you want, its only a themepark. Howgh
Isn't affecting the world based on a decision a sandbox feature?
no. thats a game feature.
And the feature is most common among sandbox games....but Okay let me put it a different way. Isn't affecting other people's gameplay based on a decision you made a sandbox feature?
no. thats still a game. youre talking about cause and effect between players. that is basically the premise how all games work. sports,video games, card games, board games, every type of recreational social behavior follows this formula.
Comments
Archage looks cool! now, lets see if it's ftp or not ...... i .. will .. never .. support .. itemshop. And i will never support online gambling either.
I think that it is fair to avoid calling GW2 a themepark if only because the personal story can branch in ways that depend upon the decisions of the player. By this logic, SWTOR would be the same...but I think that such things hardly matter in SWTOR's case, as it already has the lable of WoW in space or Bioware MMO (depending on how you feel about the game).
does this matter? yes and no. I think that the people who hate "themepark" games aren't looking for a game so much as a world, a "sandbox" to play in. I think that this small percentage of the online gaming community is campaigning for something they feel has been lost since the days of EQ and UO, but I don't think they realize that the desire to make MMOs more a GAME rather than a WORLD is something that the majority of the community supports.
so...what would a themepark, that allows more freedom to choose what one does, be? What would an MMO that is trying to be a game with lots of content from a lot of different perspectives based on in game choices be? would this be something MORE than a simple themepark game? I think so. The problem is this. It doesn't matter what you call something. GW2 is GW2. Its not a themepark. its not some weird hybrid of sandbox and themepark either. It is simply the game that Anet is making...the game they are working hard to make better than any other MMO that came before it. A game that they actually want to play. I want to play it, too. Odds are, you want to play it.
one last thing...because this is a game, and because it is a story driven game at that, the fact that you can play with a world of people who have differing stories is very cool. I suspect you will all wind up in one of 3 endings, based on which of the 3 major factions you pick (factions with differeing views about how to defeat the dragons).
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
gw 2 is and will be only themepark, it has no major sandbox features. So try all you want, its only a themepark. Howgh
3D...!?!?! Underwater environment...!?!?!? Groundbreaking? No...
Kedge Keep....
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
geez...so binary. learn some algebra.
This is how I see it working
(X=-10) is sandbox, (X=0) is something in the middle, and (X=10) is themepark. More than themepark means X+a where X=appprox. 10. X+a=Y where Y is whatever GW2 is. Note. All values for X are meant as positional coordinates, and not as values. I wouldn't wan't to make you sandbox folks feel bad about yourselves. Its not like a themeparker with no idea what he is talking about matters to you...is it?
Anyways... why does this even matter. Some people like that kind of thing (sandbox) and some people like something else. Posting here isn't going to change whether the game appeals to you. Posting here isn't likely to change other peoples opinions either. some people see a label, and make there decisions based on that alone. I think thats an amazingly lazy frame of mind. This is a game. Not just some online chat room...
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
Yeah GW2 is a themepark. It isnt more than a themepark. It isnt less than or equal to or sandboxy or any of that shit. Get over it. Just be happy that it has some brand new kick ass rides.
I think what a lot of people are failing to realize here is the little minor innovations that should make Guild Wars 2 underwater combat unique and fun.
In games like EQ, WoW, and Rift underwater combat is tedious. You have to manage your breath meter if you don't have some means of underwater breathing (which is usually applied through some buff that also has to be managed). The depth (Z axis) makes pathfinding a pain, which was especially apparent in EQ where MOBs would aggro if they saw another aggro'd MOB pass by, causing a huge train due to awful pathfinding. Kedge was especially tedious and rarely visited except to finish the occassional epic weapon from the boss there (Phineas or whatever his name was). EQ would have been better off not having the zone at all.
In GW2 there is no breath meter, and the underwater environments already look way more fleshed out than anything we've seen in the past. It's a little innovation that should have been done long ago. Also, your skills completely change while underwater, so just by diving into the water you now have what is essentially a new skill set so it's like rolling a whole other character without actually having to reroll. In other MMOs you want to avoid underwater levels at all costs, but in GW2 you'll probably will WANT to go underwater.
Groundbreaking? Maybe not, but a refreshing improvement? Probably. More than a Themepark? I wouldn't say that, though I hate the term themepark and sandbox in general. We've already seen (as mentioned above) lots of videos showing off the little innovations (and larger ones) like these, gameplay videos that seem well polished ("release ready") so it's hard not to be excited for this game, at least for me anyway.
The writer was speaking about GW1 in the first paragraph. The Domain of Anguish is a GW1 area. So no Anet hasn't done anything that you seem to be claiming.
This is not a game.
Isn't affecting the world based on a decision a sandbox feature?
This is not a game.
no. thats a game feature.
It's helpful to realize that once you hit a certain point, the more the sandbox a game is, the less of a game it is.. Because a game with total freedom isn't a game.
Games are made out of rules. :T
Too much freedom and you end up with Second Life. *shakes people vigorously* IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT?
Where did the article say anything about sandboxes? 'More than a theme park' doesn't mean GW2 is going to be more sandboxy in any way. It just means, that with it's dynamic events, branching storylines, active combat, no holy trinity, amazing visuals, etc. is going to bring a much better experience than your regular themeparks we're used to imo.
Imagine it as a next-gen themepark, or themepark+.
Eat me!
Because to many people here, Sandbox > Themepark.
So if it's more than a themepark, it must be a sandbox!
Sort of like how if something is 'more than a sandwich', it must be a pizza. :9
So if it's more than a themepark, it must be a sandbox!
Sort of like how if something is 'more than a sandwich', it must be a pizza. :9
This reminds me of that old Simpsons episode when they were at Lollapalooza. Two teenagers are standing there listening to a band. One says, "Well this music is just great." The other kid asks, "Are you being sarcastic?", to which the first kid replies, "I dont even know anymore."
Thats like half the threads in this place. So much info being misinterpreted who the hell knows what anybody really even means half the time.
MMORPG.com Forum Rule #1: You are a themepark or a sandbox and otherwise you are not an MMORPG.
"Water park" then?
My brand new bloggity blog.
Where are the country-club MMORPGs?
I vote for "Themepark Deluxe" or "Themepark 2.0"
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
And the feature is most common among sandbox games....but Okay let me put it a different way. Isn't affecting other people's gameplay based on a decision you made a sandbox feature?
This is not a game.
I dunno. It doesn't even have pony rides.
Excellent water-based attractions though ...
Sorry Mav but I really think "water park" is better.
My brand new bloggity blog.
This would mean that pvp is a sandbox feature.
Maybe it's better to see sandbox features in the light of 'emergent gameplay'. Sandbox features can be said to provide tools and mechanics to influence the game world in unscripted ways.
That's why you could say that building player houses and cities wherever you liked in SWG was sandbox, while player cities and houses in LotrO and AoC isn't.
Or take DE's, they're dev provided content that are scripted in their outcomes and resolutions, each stage or setting they can have is scripted and programmed. The heavy influence and direction that the devs have on this feature makes it non-sandbox. It is an interesting addition as a themepark feature though, one I expect to see more in other MMO's as well, dynamic PvE content.
Ah, but you only showed part of the park, the oceanic section. Tsk, the park is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa- coughs -aaaaar bigger
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I love when threads get so many views just becouse there was a mention of "sandbox vs themepark war" =P People on mmorpg really like to discuss it =P
I agree we misundertood them. They propably didn't mean that GW2 is closer to sandbox.
What the heck did Myria say that required a vigorous scrubbing?
Isn't affecting the world based on a decision a sandbox feature?
no. thats a game feature.
And the feature is most common among sandbox games....but Okay let me put it a different way. Isn't affecting other people's gameplay based on a decision you made a sandbox feature?
no. thats still a game. youre talking about cause and effect between players. that is basically the premise how all games work. sports,video games, card games, board games, every type of recreational social behavior follows this formula.