I don't think of EQ as a sandbox or a themepark simply because it didn't have linear quest progression. Games like EQ, DAoC, FFXI. AO, and AC all had class based leveling, yet players were given far more choices as to how and where they leveled their characters.
I would probably consider the first themepark MMO to be something like EQ2 or WoW.
On topic though, I think the fact that Archeage promises to combine elements of sandbox games and themepark games is what appeals to me the most.
This^. Out with linear quest hub to quest hub progression. In with choices many many choices.
Then some more choices.
You both do realize that those games mentioned above were first and foremost GRIND to level games, they had odd quests here and there, but the main XP for level came from grinding mobs in same spots for hours upon hours.. if that's not "linear" than i don't know what is.
Sure you were given the "choice" of WHERE to grind, but grind nonetheless, only thing that wasn't the same, were the mob models and abilities.
For some of us that is more fun. I much prefer to get into a group, grind some mobs for a while, meet new people, and bs with people the entire time. To me that whole bs'ing with the group while doing it makes it enjoyable. Much more enjoyable than solo quest grind because you can never get people on the same stage of a quest. There you end up playing by yourself with the only bs'ing going on being in guild chat. To me that is boring.
ArcheAge is a Sandbox to me because when I think of Sandbox mmo this is what I want. Sandbox to me simply means Freedom to play the way you want to play. No quest line to follow taking you from A-Z but logging on and being able to go where you want to go and do what you want to do in the way you want to do it. It has nonthing to do with levels and classes. People have given the sandbox term too many meanings when its always just been a game that allows Freedom.
Pretty much "this".
If a game has levels and classes but players can follow their own destiny, be a warrior, merchant, crafter, etc, and the game isn't leadning them from lvl 1 to cap then that's a sandbox.
If a game doesn't have levels and classes but the game pretty much tells a player what they have to do in order to get from 1 to cap, perhaps forces combat in order to level and then leads you around the world then that's not a sandbox.
all levels and classes are essentially pails and shovels. What a player does with them is their business.
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ArcheAge is a Sandbox to me because when I think of Sandbox mmo this is what I want. Sandbox to me simply means Freedom to play the way you want to play. No quest line to follow taking you from A-Z but logging on and being able to go where you want to go and do what you want to do in the way you want to do it. It has nonthing to do with levels and classes. People have given the sandbox term too many meanings when its always just been a game that allows Freedom.
Pretty much "this".
If a game has levels and classes but players can follow their own destiny, be a warrior, merchant, crafter, etc, and the game isn't leadning them from lvl 1 to cap then that's a sandbox.
If a game doesn't have levels and classes but the game pretty much tells a player what they have to do in order to get from 1 to cap, perhaps forces combat in order to level and then leads you around the world then that's not a sandbox.
all levels and classes are essentially pails and shovels. What a player does with them is their business.
Sovrath you are such a wise man. I always like reading your posts.
You know, I almost fell for it. I was going to take part in your genre labling committee Then I realised that it doesnt matter. Ill play the game if it turns out to be fun. No matter what lable you come up with to put on this game.
i dont know, i beleive the themepark mmos rise to fame was simply due to the grpahics of everquest over the tired looking uo, whislt uo was certainly harder to play than eq i believe eq did so well because its grpahics were up to date with the latest 3d technology, had it been reversed with eq being a 2d isomterical game and uo being the new game in 3d i imagine the current world of mmos would have been rather different since blizzard would have taken inspiration from uo instead of eq.
todays mmo gamers are crying out for more sandboxy features in their mmos, i beleive the sandbox to be the future and this "sandpark" to be the stepping stone
I want to believe as much as you do that this is indeed true but I doubt it. I mean, look at the latest crop of "sandbox" games:
MO, DF, Xsyon, Erathrise --> None can really be labeled as "having mass appeal". Heck, one or two of them can be called total failures.
I think games like ArcheAge with their "sandpark" (really, this is the term we are going with?) elements is about as close as we are going to get to truly successful sanbox type games.
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
I don't think of EQ as a sandbox or a themepark simply because it didn't have linear quest progression. Games like EQ, DAoC, FFXI. AO, and AC all had class based leveling, yet players were given far more choices as to how and where they leveled their characters.
I would probably consider the first themepark MMO to be something like EQ2 or WoW.
On topic though, I think the fact that Archeage promises to combine elements of sandbox games and themepark games is what appeals to me the most.
EQ2 didn't have the super linear quest hubs that WoW had, so WoW always seemed much more "themeparky" to me. WoW has even gotten WORSE with that in Cataclysm in that now, particularly at low levels, you cannot even deviate from the chain of quests THEY want you to do. You have to do them ALL or you dead end. It's ridiculous. I never had an issue with that in EQ2 and never felt strapped into "hubs." Frankly, I think one of the worst things WoW ever did was the overuse of this quest hub crap.
I would welcome any hybrid games and ArcheAge appears to be one of them. Anything that isn't an all out themepark will be refreshing, actually.
I don't think of EQ as a sandbox or a themepark simply because it didn't have linear quest progression. Games like EQ, DAoC, FFXI. AO, and AC all had class based leveling, yet players were given far more choices as to how and where they leveled their characters.
I would probably consider the first themepark MMO to be something like EQ2 or WoW.
On topic though, I think the fact that Archeage promises to combine elements of sandbox games and themepark games is what appeals to me the most.
EQ2 didn't have the super linear quest hubs that WoW had, so WoW always seemed much more "themeparky" to me. WoW has even gotten WORSE with that in Cataclysm in that now, particularly at low levels, you cannot even deviate from the chain of quests THEY want you to do. You have to do them ALL or you dead end. It's ridiculous. I never had an issue with that in EQ2 and never felt strapped into "hubs." Frankly, I think one of the worst things WoW ever did was the overuse of this quest hub crap.
I would welcome any hybrid games and ArcheAge appears to be one of them. Anything that isn't an all out themepark will be refreshing, actually.
I played EQ2 at release and certainly found it to be themepark. There were plenty of quests.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I put a sanbox in my back yard and stuck 5000 people in it,didn't work out so well,not a sand castle standing (
I can't wait for the next generation to feed my internet with more ridiculous labels, we got haters/trolls/themepark/sandbox/fanbois/wow clone ect ect.
I am so tired of the horrible game designs i have seen,i just want a game that does something beyond the 50,000 boring ass quests i have endured over the years.The ONLY game that had me intrigued for class/combat design was ffxi al lthese other games are a notch lower or just make no sense at all.
EQ2 showed the start of a decent crafting game,and has gone down hill from there.
Archeage is the ONE and only one game i have ever seen prior to launch that is worthy of some hype.I highly doubt it wil llive up to it's hype,but it is the first game showing me some effort and thinking.I am really tired of these other devs that think we are retarded and can't see through their bs.
I know a few people can't turn this genre around and the people spending blindly on games that are marketed with hype ar not helping either.
I think a changing of the guard is going to happen,maybe windows wil lbe replaced wit ha better system,perhaps Asian gaming will take over and spnsors will fund these games and open up new pay to play ideas.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
For some of us that is more fun. I much prefer to get into a group, grind some mobs for a while, meet new people, and bs with people the entire time. To me that whole bs'ing with the group while doing it makes it enjoyable. Much more enjoyable than solo quest grind because you can never get people on the same stage of a quest. There you end up playing by yourself with the only bs'ing going on being in guild chat. To me that is boring.
<p align="center" style="font-family: arial;"><a href="http://www.wizards.com/magic/playmagic/whatcolorareyou.asp"; target="_blank"><img src="http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblue.jpg"; border="0"><br/><b>Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.</b></a></p>
Pretty much "this".
If a game has levels and classes but players can follow their own destiny, be a warrior, merchant, crafter, etc, and the game isn't leadning them from lvl 1 to cap then that's a sandbox.
If a game doesn't have levels and classes but the game pretty much tells a player what they have to do in order to get from 1 to cap, perhaps forces combat in order to level and then leads you around the world then that's not a sandbox.
all levels and classes are essentially pails and shovels. What a player does with them is their business.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Sovrath you are such a wise man. I always like reading your posts.
Sandbox, schmandbox.
You know, I almost fell for it. I was going to take part in your genre labling committee
Then I realised that it doesnt matter. Ill play the game if it turns out to be fun. No matter what lable you come up with to put on this game.
I want to believe as much as you do that this is indeed true but I doubt it. I mean, look at the latest crop of "sandbox" games:
MO, DF, Xsyon, Erathrise --> None can really be labeled as "having mass appeal". Heck, one or two of them can be called total failures.
I think games like ArcheAge with their "sandpark" (really, this is the term we are going with?) elements is about as close as we are going to get to truly successful sanbox type games.
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
It's a hybrid, which I believe is best.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
EQ2 didn't have the super linear quest hubs that WoW had, so WoW always seemed much more "themeparky" to me. WoW has even gotten WORSE with that in Cataclysm in that now, particularly at low levels, you cannot even deviate from the chain of quests THEY want you to do. You have to do them ALL or you dead end. It's ridiculous. I never had an issue with that in EQ2 and never felt strapped into "hubs." Frankly, I think one of the worst things WoW ever did was the overuse of this quest hub crap.
I would welcome any hybrid games and ArcheAge appears to be one of them. Anything that isn't an all out themepark will be refreshing, actually.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I played EQ2 at release and certainly found it to be themepark. There were plenty of quests.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Why, thanks Trash656.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I put a sanbox in my back yard and stuck 5000 people in it,didn't work out so well,not a sand castle standing (
I can't wait for the next generation to feed my internet with more ridiculous labels, we got haters/trolls/themepark/sandbox/fanbois/wow clone ect ect.
I am so tired of the horrible game designs i have seen,i just want a game that does something beyond the 50,000 boring ass quests i have endured over the years.The ONLY game that had me intrigued for class/combat design was ffxi al lthese other games are a notch lower or just make no sense at all.
EQ2 showed the start of a decent crafting game,and has gone down hill from there.
Archeage is the ONE and only one game i have ever seen prior to launch that is worthy of some hype.I highly doubt it wil llive up to it's hype,but it is the first game showing me some effort and thinking.I am really tired of these other devs that think we are retarded and can't see through their bs.
I know a few people can't turn this genre around and the people spending blindly on games that are marketed with hype ar not helping either.
I think a changing of the guard is going to happen,maybe windows wil lbe replaced wit ha better system,perhaps Asian gaming will take over and spnsors will fund these games and open up new pay to play ideas.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.