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The "End Game" Rush vs "Living" in the world
dethsbryd
Member UncommonPosts: 4
I don't understand why so many people run blindly through a game, hacking and slashing their way to max level as quickly as possible. Maybe I never will.
With limited sources for good, playable games out there, what is the rush. You get to end game, maybe raid for awhile get bored and then...
Maybe it's just me, but when I play a game, I want to take my time. I like to explore, get lost in a world without dirty dishes and laundry. I play games to relax, for enjoyment, like many others kick back to watch TV. My game world is a world to escape to (yes I'm escaping reality at times ;P) . I can be whoever and whatever I want to be. I want to take my time. I want to get to know the people. I am in no more rush to get to the end of that life than this one.
That being said; don't take me for a squishy pushover on the battlefield. I love to fight, but I prefer a good fight, something with some actual Aaaaaa, I'm gonna die. phew, ok I made it, kinda fighting. I don't like gimmes, you know, the kind of game where you can level to cap in a week (that may be a slight exaggeration). I like a game that's tough, challenging, and offers more than just fighting, in case I'm in the mood to craft (I go for newer prettier swords like some girls go for shoes) or do something else.
Vanguard gives me all of that and more. I love the game. The fighting is difficult enough to keep you interested...very interested. The crafting is while in the beginning rather frustrating (it is like a mini game), is also enough to hold your attention. you can build ships, houses (yes you build them, they don't give them to you) and guild halls. And there is diplomacy, which is another "mini game". All of which gives you good to great rewards for finishing sagas. This game is certainly not a gimme. Leveling is slow, and after you leave the Isle Of Dawn starter world you do lose xp if you die. I like that, it makes you think about what your doing. You can't just go running into a pile of mobs and come out unscathed. But isn't that the way it should be, for real fighters.
And as for communities...other than the community on LOTRO, I have never found a nicer more helpful bunch of people. And for those of you who say Vanguard is dead or dieing, I say...we had 52 people on last night in our guild, that's right just in our guild. How many are on at a time in your guild?
Comments
Wouldn't this be depend on the game? If the game is rushing you to max level, do you blame the players?
WoW rushes you to endgame. It's their intention.
Lotro does NOT rush you to endgame. That's their intention.
I like both games and play them how they are built. Therefore it's not the players but the game.
It may because of the players as well, if I don't particularly like a game I won't even try to "live" in it.
Id tend to agree.I realy hate (maybe hate is to strong a word) A barand new player shouting WHATS ENDGAME LIKE or what class do I need to lvl to be usefull...that last statment is verry sad. If you are playing a good game ALL classes are needed.
Im a crafter so id agree there I like a distration between questing or dungons, and a distration that makes me rich is nice toboot lol. To me what the OP is saying is what is missing from 90% of "AAA" mmo's now maybe im just old school i dont know but being abel to breez to max lvl in days or weeks seems pointless and a waist. to each there own tho nice first post
That really depends on how you like the world.
Games I explored =
WoW, Wind Waker, DOMO, DCUO, Ragnarok Online, Global Agenda (yes its a small desert), and ROSE online, San Andreas, CO, Vice City, super mario sunshine.
Games I didnt explore =
Aion, SUN, City of Heroes, SWG (Granted I only played a day), Just Cause 2, MegaTen.
Anyways I didnt explore those game because I didnt like the aesthetics, map design, the mode of travel, or just because I found the graphics severely lacking.
I actually love exploring!
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dont play leveling thameparks. Well thats the problem becouse 95% of developers copy wow
When I played WoW, I found that 80th level was like a dinner bell constantly ringing, driving me on. Psychologically, it was not different than completing the coin collection from the fountain - I became focused on it simply because it was an achievable goal. Also, until you were at the level cap, it didn't really feel like one was a citizen. Even though I wasn't doing dungeons or raids and my gear was never in the same league as the other 80s around me, it felt like I had a right to a voice as long as I had that "80".
For the most part though, I'm a stop-and-smell-the-flowers kind of player. In UO, it would often take me years to play a character through to the skill cap. In Eve, I could only keep my attention on a career path for a skill or two before my attention drifted off to play something else. But in a straight leveling game, especially working an alt through the exact same quest chains, driving to the end is hard to resist.
That's really a personal preference. When I played WoW I never felt 'rushed'. I played through the game at my own pace and did whatever content I found interesting at the time.
I guess some people are just incapable of not rushing through a game if the chance presents itself.
I really love getting lost in a world and its lore. But some games this just really is not possible. Take Rift for example, you cant get lost in a world where you just sit in a city and insta port to dungeons. But say something like VG or EQ2 where you have your own home and a guild house and multiple areas to be in. Basically it only works in games with some depth. I always try to get lost in games and their worlds but coming from theme park games has put the mentality in my head that I have to get to the last level and get that awesome gear. I've been trying to break that but its pretty hard. Hopefully games like Archeage will promote getting lost in the world and having other things to do (such as your house or ships for example)
This. Never felt rushed in any game.
"Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events, and small minds talk about people." - Eleanor Roosevelt
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A game can "MAKE" a player rush to end level?
I feel the same way as the OP,this has become incredibly redundant in every mmo.Players are not in it to enjoy a game world and slowly age in it like a realistic world,they only care to get the very best items and walk around and brag about it.I mean it gets pathetic and lame to listen to chat in games and hear people brag about their class is better than the resst or they do the most damage.
Yes it is partially the develoeprs fault for not creating a better "ride/journey".This is VERY easily fixed by any developer that puts out even a minute effort,but why should or would they spend more cost on developement,if this is all the majority care about in a mmo?
The ONLY difference from a single player and MMO right now,is in one you get best gear and move on,in the other you get best gear and sit around and brag about it.This is why games need more substance,they need a better game world that actually moves and feels realistic,with moving objects,destructible surfaces,physics ect ect.
Games are developed so cheaply now,we still havnt got half of the most basic/simplistic ideas ,example housing or land plots.Still they are done half ass and cheap,no where near what the devs are capable of doing.
Besides the fact there is nnothing much in these game worlds to deter from bragging about end game gear,there will alway be egos.The majority just feel the need to still go after something they can brag about.So even if for example there was some nice housing in games,if the best bragging tool was still the end game gear,then it would still be the main focus of the players in that game.
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Wow does exactly this ofc by their recent changes to make levelling trivial in that where previously you had to follow the quest chains and spend time in each zone, now you do a quest or 2 and level like a madman (you cant actually take your time now) The reason? Blizzard is aiming for a younger and younger player base and know than their end-game is weak now so they want existing players to create alts to give a false impression of more content. This is a themepark mmorg issue through and through and why many are tired to death of it, the end-game must die, it cannot evolve much more and people will only play end-game so long before getting sick to death of it.
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rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
The problem is with the 'mainstream' gamers.
They just want to sit back and turn their brains off. To have the game tell them to run from point A to B to C killing and collecting X, Y, and Z. Constantly being rewarded with shiny 'epics' for pulling the lever as fast as possible.
God forbid they ever find themselves in a online virtual world where they have to make their own decisions of what to do or how to play. They would scream at the top of their lungs that such a game sucked for 'lack of content' simply because they're too mentally docile to take any initiative and make decisions for themselves.
I rush to endgame since thats what everyone who is 'serious' about the game tends to do. Basically the rule goes that all good players rush to endgame. All the noobs stay behind and 'explore'.
Back when I was a noob I enjoyed exploring. Hell I enjoy in in SINGLEPLAYER games. I dont bother exploring too much in MMOs since they are all about the community and you need to keep up with the type of people you want to play with.
I dont know about you guys, but i dont fancy wasting my time in dungeons with skillless people who would know the difference between taunt and run away. I play the game to experience the content and enjoy it. Not to play with some skill-less brainless people - despite how friendly they might be.
Just because someone takes their time and explores, doesn't mean that they are skill less and brainless. Someone people enjoy exploring and doing all of the content.
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I think alot of it has to do with your deffinition of "rushed"
I played FFXI for 4 years, and just hit level cap a few months before I quit, why? becase there was a game in between lvl 1 and lvl 65 (I think it was 65) There was tons of content and you could litrally spend years and years before hitting cap.
Now take wow for instence, I played a huntard and I played 2-3 hours a day (no raiding) and I capped in 3 weeks (at the time 70 was cap), I did alot of side quest and capped engineering, leatherworking, enchanting, first aid, and cooking.
Was there content between lvl 1 and lvl 70? yes. Was it rushed? yes (in my deffinition)
If anyone was going to stay with wow more then 3 months they are going to be playing endgame and doing dailies. Sooo I dunno if you'd call it rushed or not. but 3 months for a mmo or 4 years? I'd deffinitly take 4 years.
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you play the game to experience the content and enjoy it but you rush past the content to the end-game to do dungeons. Themepark disorder, terminal case
You realise ofc in this world you live in that other higher up the food chain will say the same about you when they do a random with you 
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
The answer lies right there in the title to the post. The WOW-type dregs see "end game" and "living" in the world as one and the same; anyone who isn't max level and raiding is just another one of those "casual" insects who are taking up space that could be better occupied by a real gamer.
Part of the capitalism disease if you ask me, related to the whole "if you aren't in first place, you are in last place" mentality that is doing such wonderful things for society these days.
Endgame content you say? The same 5-6 Dungons over and over. this is your content? Sorry i must be skill-less brainless then because i enjoy 1-cap more then cap itself.
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
If you're greedy for fun, you'll do enjoyable things in your games, at whatever pace you enjoy doing them at. If you're greedy for pixels, you'll do what it takes to get whatever shiny catches your eye. If you're a mix of both, you'll play a little longer than is fun once in awhile because you almost have enough levels/in game currency to obtain this or that item. But when the game isn't fun anymore, you'll still unsub and abandon your imaginary wealth.
But if you're envious, you'll rush to end game and then rush to grind all the points and gear you can get, because you don't want other players to have any progression or pixels that you don't have.
Did you ever feel that icky sensation behind your eyes as you log out after obtaining max level, knowing you'll log in tomorrow to pursue a massive gear grind even though you're tired and bored after weeks of non-stop grind? Ever feel that uneasy sensation in your gut because you know that others got there before you did, no matter how early you bought the game, no matter how hard you tried to keep up, and that more will pass you by no matter how many hours you play beyond the hours that are actually fun?
That's envy. That's what makes themepark devs the big bucks. That's what gamers need to watch for, lest their fun time turn into something ugly and harmful.
I don't buy into the MMO addiction guff, because I understand escapism too well to blame the symptom rather than the cause. But I do believe envy can make your fun escape from crappy reality into a mind numbing waste of your precious time and energy. And envy is what makes that happen.
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Sorry should have clarified a bit more. I typed that post pretty damn fast!
By endgame I was referring more towards game which had elements of PvP mainly. As far as dungeons go, I just dont see the point of running dungeons which dont give you endgame gear other than for enjoyment/experiencing content (once) purposes or to help me level up.
Midgame dungeons tend to serve a good purpose as levelling tools, therefore they are regarded as a win win situation. You spend time enjoying the game's content and your levelling up quite fast. So I wouldnt say I 'skip out' on content. I refuse to grind my way on mobs playing whack a mole to level cap!
You got to understand, it is very easy to power your way through a game and experience all the content that it has - without having to be told "OH YOU RUSHED THROUGH THE GAME, YOU GOT NO FUN THATS WHY YOU QUIT!". To me thats a terrible response.
So what is this content I missed out exactly? Low lvl PvP(probably the only significant one for some)? Lvl 30 epics which I'll wear for 5 more levels? Easter eggs?
Fact is I am completing the same content I would, regardless of my playing speed.
I guess one thing I omitted from my OP was that there is a kind of 'pressure' to level fast. Otherwise people view you in a lower light
! A lot of it is about getting to endgame so that you can learn your class better and start building a reputation for yourself on the server.
Theres a saying - surrounding yourself with successful people, makes you work harder to be successful. Yes yes its a game, I know. But still the principle applies!