Spending real money in what is called by that games developers as a F2P game is totally contrary. Drop the "free" part as part of the marketing scheme and maybe some of the saner among us will come onboard. Until then, F2P is nothing but a scam. Unfortunately, many still don't WANT to believe that.
Beliefs... now that's a good place to go. Let's run with that.
Not every F2P games sells items that you need in order to progress.
Few F2P MMOs make the claim that the entire game is free.
Not every F2P is PvP, so 'paying for advantage over other players' is an odd argument when players aren't competing.
The majority of F2P gamers pay absolutely nothing the entire time they play the game.
F2P games add regular content for both free players and paying players - there is no charge for expansions.
F2P games are digital download, offering their players the ability to try the game for as long as thy want before they opt to spend a single cent on the game.
This is where what people WANT to believe really comes into play. You do not WANT to believe those things, therefore you dismiss them as false, yet you accuse others of the same behaviour you display. You will not accept any of those things, despite the inability to present any data to refute them.
This is where the argument is at an impasse. It is not on the side of people who accept F2P as an opton for gaming, but on the other side, where arguments are fueled by unsupported talking points, insults and personal attacks against those who do not buy into what those who dislike the F2P business model WANT to believe.
I'd be interested in you posting the F2P games that in fact are just like you stated above, so I could give one of them a try. (please, no fremiums, that doesn't count despite what Richard wants to believe)
I've tried a dozen or so F2P games over the years and they all pretty much fall into the sterotypical cash shop, heavy grinding, P2W model (or at least P2 have fun) and perhaps I've just been unlucky. Some please recommend their favorite F2P that doesn't fit this mold and I'll give it a go.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Some of them say that there are F2P mmorpgs on the market that are completely free to play and don't end up in a P2W situation someplace down the line. Please, show me these games. I have yet to see a F2P mmorpg that at some point doesn't ask for your money.
Originally posted by itgrowls Keep Chanting the "F2P is Pay to Win" Mantra = completely false notion. one cannot buy gear in Lotro and as far as im concerned it has been the most successful model.
Hehe I'm always baffled with this kind of perspective. You can buy +50 to each stat in lotro store. Best item You can get from raid will give around 150 statwise(say 50 str, 50 agi and 50 vit). So buing 3 x +50 stats is like obtaining best item in game. Yet because they aren't put on some kind special "cloak of uberness" it's fine and dandy as they don't sell gear and thus advantage...seriously?
As for article I find it closer to trolling than satire. And character of comments seems to confirm that. I for one would not want such controversy on my site, but whatever...
Yay...yet another person on the 'stat cap' train! If you actually played, you'd know just how useful they actually are. If you're going to pick something to complain about in the Lotro shop - at least pick something that IS useful - like the power pots!
As usual, great article Richard! You really know how to play your audience !
Originally posted by itgrowls Keep Chanting the "F2P is Pay to Win" Mantra = completely false notion. one cannot buy gear in Lotro and as far as im concerned it has been the most successful model.
Hehe I'm always baffled with this kind of perspective. You can buy +50 to each stat in lotro store. Best item You can get from raid will give around 150 statwise(say 50 str, 50 agi and 50 vit). So buing 3 x +50 stats is like obtaining best item in game. Yet because they aren't put on some kind special "cloak of uberness" it's fine and dandy as they don't sell gear and thus advantage...seriously?
As for article I find it closer to trolling than satire. And character of comments seems to confirm that. I for one would not want such controversy on my site, but whatever...
I guess itgrowls hasn't been to the store in a while. They're selling Legendary Weapons. They are desperate - all these success stories are about marketing and pulling everyone else into the same pit so they have a level playing field.
Lotro is completely gutted - there's no 'playing' anymore and no sense of accomplishment from getting things done. There is no reason for guilds to ban together - one guy making black dye, another making leather armor, another making heavy armor - to get a uniform look - go buy it. Crafting is gutted - go buy it. Legendary quests are gutted - go buy it. No more working for weeks to attain anything - go buy it.
If you can buy everything in the game, what is the sense in playing? Are you playing dolls? Why not just get a Legolas standy, throw a negligee on it, do your thing and save your money?
Beliefs... now that's a good place to go. Let's run with that.
Not every F2P games sells items that you need in order to progress.
Few F2P MMOs make the claim that the entire game is free.
Not every F2P is PvP, so 'paying for advantage over other players' is an odd argument when players aren't competing.
The majority of F2P gamers pay absolutely nothing the entire time they play the game.
F2P games add regular content for both free players and paying players - there is no charge for expansions.
F2P games are digital download, offering their players the ability to try the game for as long as thy want before they opt to spend a single cent on the game.
This is where what people WANT to believe really comes into play. You do not WANT to believe those things, therefore you dismiss them as false, yet you accuse others of the same behaviour you display. You will not accept any of those things, despite the inability to present any data to refute them.
This is where the argument is at an impasse. It is not on the side of people who accept F2P as an opton for gaming, but on the other side, where arguments are fueled by unsupported talking points, insults and personal attacks against those who do not buy into what those who dislike the F2P business model WANT to believe.
I'd be interested in you posting the F2P games that in fact are just like you stated above, so I could give one of them a try. (please, no fremiums, that doesn't count despite what Richard wants to believe)
I've tried a dozen or so F2P games over the years and they all pretty much fall into the sterotypical cash shop, heavy grinding, P2W model (or at least P2 have fun) and perhaps I've just been unlucky. Some please recommend their favorite F2P that doesn't fit this mold and I'll give it a go.
Look into Vindictus, Dungeon Fighter Online and Dragon Nest (OB July 26th). Although all 3 games eventually become a bit grindy (due to a lack of content in some areas) but it's not as heavy as most MMOs, especially since the Fatigue/Dungeon Limit systems were entirely removed in all 3 games. Breaking down all 3 games based on Loktofeit's points:
Vindictus:
1. Cash Shop items are not needed to play. It contains Avatars (Vanity), potions and revival items, which are not needed unless you want to solo everything. Party Members can revive you using Feathers and Party Feathers (a regular in-game item), and for Raid Content which can be very challenging, an organized party (mostly guilds) will be able to do the work without problem.
2.The game is entirely Free To Play, all content is accessible.
3. Has PvP. Cash Shop irrelevant.
4. Still true, majority of players don't pay anything.
5. Has constantly been updated since Launch, we're very close to catching up the Korean version (We're on Episode 8, Episode 9 should be released later this year. Korea just released episode 10 last month).
6. Also true.
Dungeon Fighter Online:
1. Cash Shop does offer some game altering items (Avatars). Avatars can be traded in-game with other players using in-game currency though (Gold), so even players who never spend a buck can gain access to them.
2. Game is still entirely free to play and you're not locked out of Content.
3. Has PvP, Avatars are not necessary early on but do give an important edge. Still, can be bought using in-game currency from other players so does not imbalance the game has much.
4. Still true, majority of players don't pay.
5. Also has been constantly updated since Launch, although the game has much more content to go through compared to Vindictus. Still, DFO is catching up well with it's korean version.
6. Also true.
Dragon Nest: Very similar to Vindictus. Cash Shop info has yet to be released, but given Nexon's track record it will be similar to either Vindictus or Dungeon Fighter Online.
Does this guy talk about anything else? As a fully paid up 'F2P Hater Handbook' member I post far less on the subject than him. One might almost feel there is an alterior motive at work, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
Wait... the guy that's on staff specifically to write The Free Zone column about Free to Play... he's writing about Free to Play in each article?
That's craziness!
But he doesn't write about F2P, at least not in the actual gaming world. All he ever does is complain about how dumb people who dont like the idea of F2P are. I've yet to see him provide actual reasons and examples to like it in practice. This article is typical; he's all "haters gonna hate LOL", but does he provide counter-examples that prove them wrong? Does he admit that there are examples that give the haters ammunition and write about how they're unrepresentative? Does he provide substantial analysis about how F2P can improve gameplay?
Nope, he just makes weak strawmen out of the less articulate arguments against his One True Path and ignores the well written, coherent ones that he has no answer to.
At best, he's just a poor writer. At worst he's an out-and-out troll.
But he doesn't write about F2P, at least not in the actual gaming world. All he ever does is complain about how dumb people who dont like the idea of F2P are. I've yet to see him provide actual reasons and examples to like it in practice. This article is typical; he's all "haters gonna hate LOL", but does he provide counter-examples that prove them wrong? Does he admit that there are examples that give the haters ammunition and write about how they're unrepresentative? Does he provide substantial analysis about how F2P can improve gameplay?
Nope, he just makes weak strawmen out of the less articulate arguments against his One True Path and ignores the well written, coherent ones that he has no answer to.
At best, he's just a poor writer. At worst he's an out-and-out troll.
WHat's the difference between this article, and the how to write a post article? I didn't see that get as much flaming or out right insults?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
But he doesn't write about F2P, at least not in the actual gaming world. All he ever does is complain about how dumb people who dont like the idea of F2P are. I've yet to see him provide actual reasons and examples to like it in practice. This article is typical; he's all "haters gonna hate LOL", but does he provide counter-examples that prove them wrong? Does he admit that there are examples that give the haters ammunition and write about how they're unrepresentative? Does he provide substantial analysis about how F2P can improve gameplay?
He writes a lot about F2Ps in general. In fact, it's been a while since he wrote an article aimed directly at "F2P Haters", you can just look at his history and see it for yourself. Throughout his articles, he often points out why F2P is "superior" in certain ways. But there's no need to go all out with an article ONLY about why F2P is better, for the simply reason that F2P supporters will enjoy the article, but will not learn anything from it because they already know about it. And the F2P "haters" won't learn a thing because they don't want to. It won't convince anyone basically.
And just before someone tries to call me out for no specific reason when I mention "hater", let me clarify. When I mention F2P Haters, I mean members who attempts to make opinions pass as facts, deny all existing proofs from the opposite side (the F2P supporter's) despite their (the hater's) lack of any factual evidence saves for a F2P MMORPG or 2 that they played that one time and saw the cash shop, which led them to their crusade against the F2P all-together. Like members saying: "All people who play F2Ps just want to buy their way to the top" or "the F2P model is dying", when research have shown that over 70% of gamers play F2P games, and that approximatively 70% of of F2P gamers never spend a dime.
That's an exemple of hater. Denial of all evidences, or as Tim Minchin would say "Faith is the denial of observations so that belief can be preserved".
But he doesn't write about F2P, at least not in the actual gaming world. All he ever does is complain about how dumb people who dont like the idea of F2P are. I've yet to see him provide actual reasons and examples to like it in practice. This article is typical; he's all "haters gonna hate LOL", but does he provide counter-examples that prove them wrong? Does he admit that there are examples that give the haters ammunition and write about how they're unrepresentative? Does he provide substantial analysis about how F2P can improve gameplay?
Nope, he just makes weak strawmen out of the less articulate arguments against his One True Path and ignores the well written, coherent ones that he has no answer to.
At best, he's just a poor writer. At worst he's an out-and-out troll.
WHat's the difference between this article, and the how to write a post article? I didn't see that get as much flaming or out right insults?
There's a distinct difference between this article and the how to write a post article.
And this is that whenever you take an issue that's based on opinion or preference rather than fact, pick a side in it, and then bash the opposing side, all you're doing is stoking the flames.
I guarantee that were this article written in the same tone and manner, but the subject matter about those who prefered console gaming over PC gaming, PvP over PvE, casual over hardcore gaming, I can guerantee that it would have drummed up the same amount of vitriol.
The mocking tone of this article crosses the line because it is mocking people's personal opinions, and insinuating that their opinion is less important than that of the writer's, which if what Aihoshi seems to do often.
This article has done nothing but stir up drama, and just needs to die and fade away just like any other flame-bait should.
But he doesn't write about F2P, at least not in the actual gaming world. All he ever does is complain about how dumb people who dont like the idea of F2P are. I've yet to see him provide actual reasons and examples to like it in practice. This article is typical; he's all "haters gonna hate LOL", but does he provide counter-examples that prove them wrong? Does he admit that there are examples that give the haters ammunition and write about how they're unrepresentative? Does he provide substantial analysis about how F2P can improve gameplay?
Nope, he just makes weak strawmen out of the less articulate arguments against his One True Path and ignores the well written, coherent ones that he has no answer to.
At best, he's just a poor writer. At worst he's an out-and-out troll.
WHat's the difference between this article, and the how to write a post article? I didn't see that get as much flaming or out right insults?
There's a distinct difference between this article and the how to write a post article.
And this is that whenever you take an issue that's based on opinion or preference rather than fact, pick a side in it, and then bash the opposing side, all you're doing is stoking the flames.
I guarantee that were this article written in the same tone and manner, but the subject matter about those who prefered console gaming over PC gaming, PvP over PvE, casual over hardcore gaming, I can guerantee that it would have drummed up the same amount of vitriol.
The mocking tone of this article crosses the line because it is mocking people's personal opinions, and insinuating that their opinion is less important than that of the writer's, which if what Aihoshi seems to do often.
This article has done nothing but stir up drama, and just needs to die and fade away just like any other flame-bait should.
I just read both and the wording used as well as satire used are basiclly the same, that was the point I was making. Even the structure was similar, if anything it was as if RA copied that article.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
But he doesn't write about F2P, at least not in the actual gaming world. All he ever does is complain about how dumb people who dont like the idea of F2P are. I've yet to see him provide actual reasons and examples to like it in practice. This article is typical; he's all "haters gonna hate LOL", but does he provide counter-examples that prove them wrong? Does he admit that there are examples that give the haters ammunition and write about how they're unrepresentative? Does he provide substantial analysis about how F2P can improve gameplay?
Nope, he just makes weak strawmen out of the less articulate arguments against his One True Path and ignores the well written, coherent ones that he has no answer to.
At best, he's just a poor writer. At worst he's an out-and-out troll.
WHat's the difference between this article, and the how to write a post article? I didn't see that get as much flaming or out right insults?
There's a distinct difference between this article and the how to write a post article.
And this is that whenever you take an issue that's based on opinion or preference rather than fact, pick a side in it, and then bash the opposing side, all you're doing is stoking the flames.
I guarantee that were this article written in the same tone and manner, but the subject matter about those who prefered console gaming over PC gaming, PvP over PvE, casual over hardcore gaming, I can guerantee that it would have drummed up the same amount of vitriol.
The mocking tone of this article crosses the line because it is mocking people's personal opinions, and insinuating that their opinion is less important than that of the writer's, which if what Aihoshi seems to do often.
This article has done nothing but stir up drama, and just needs to die and fade away just like any other flame-bait should.
I just read both and the wording used as well as satire used are basiclly the same, that was the point I was making. Even the structure was similar, if anything it was as if RA copied that article.
The problem is the subject matter in combination with Aihoshi's history of bashing and mocking people who don't share the same opinion as him, even using many of the same claims made in this very article.
If this same article was written by one of the columinists for this site that has a better reputation of professionalism and contributing objective and constructive articles, which in my opinion is pretty much any other columnist for this site, then there would have been far less fallout.
But regardless, the topic itself is controversial because the topic itself is largely based on perspective and opinion. As I mentioned before, this article has been been about as productive as a flame-baiting Casual vs. Hardcode post, which again, is another cotroversial topic based on perspective and preference.
Were this 'article' posted by a regular member, it would have near immediately been taken down due to 'trolling'.
Nice article man I've really enjoyed reading it. Anyhow, just ignore those foos. "Haters gonna hate" and there’s no way this is going to change. I really enjoy reading all your articles; they are always so analytical, based on facts or some interesting bits of info. Just don’t mind that you usually dont have tons of comments under your articles, I think that your readers (i.e. intelligent people are less vocal that usual forum haters. So keep writing good articles, enjoy and well its all cool you have many people who like what you do and support you in a way (no bromance intended
The problem is the subject matter in combination with Aihoshi's history of bashing and mocking people who don't share the same opinion as him, even using many of the same claims made in this very article.
History of bashing people? What? Could you please show us any proof of that said history? Because I, personally, think that what you've wrote is... well bs.
The problem is the subject matter in combination with Aihoshi's history of bashing and mocking people who don't share the same opinion as him, even using many of the same claims made in this very article.
History of bashing people? What? Could you please show us any proof of that said history? Because I, personally, think that what you've wrote is... well bs.
He has a long history of it. You can read his past articles.
The problem is the subject matter in combination with Aihoshi's history of bashing and mocking people who don't share the same opinion as him, even using many of the same claims made in this very article.
History of bashing people? What? Could you please show us any proof of that said history? Because I, personally, think that what you've wrote is... well bs.
He has a long history of it. You can read his past articles.
I often read his articles. I really like that he analyze various statistics and then base his opinion on it. Is he in favor of F2P games? Yes, absolutely. But whats wrong with that? What, you can't like F2P games because forum-cool-kids-club said so?
I've never noticed him "bashing and mocking people who don't share the same opinion". However, I always see people bashing and mocking from him just because he chose to write about F2P games. Just read comments of any article that he wrote, just read comments of this article. They are horrible. So again, any sources of him bashing and mocking people would be much appreciated.
Originally posted by preston326 I often read his articles. I really like that he analyze various statistics and then base his opinion on it. Is he in favor of F2P games? Yes, absolutely. But whats wrong with that? What, you can't like F2P games because forum-cool-kids-club said so?I've never noticed him "bashing and mocking people who don't share the same opinion". However, I always see people bashing and mocking from him just because he chose to write about F2P games. Just read comments of any article that he wrote, just read comments of this article. They are horrible. So again, any sources of him bashing and mocking people would be much appreciated.
Lets start then. Stuck in Denial He insinuates that people do not like F2P don't do it for rational reasons but because they are in denial.
Are You an MMOG Snob He continue to imply that people who don't like F2P don't have any rational reason and therefor snobs.
The Old Curiosity Shop He continues the above argument. The only reason people don't like F2P is because they don't want to see the "truth".
There a lot more, there hardly goes an article where he doesn't take the opportunity to question the intelligence of people who doesn't like F2P continuing to claim they have no rational arguments. Note that he has never ever responded to any comments or rational arguments, at best he makes a comment in his next article dismissing ALL negative comments as uninformed and just emotional.
In any other context he would be called a simple Troll and as a lot of other people have said if they made similar statements they would moderated and possibly banned.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
I often read his articles. I really like that he analyze various statistics and then base his opinion on it. Is he in favor of F2P games? Yes, absolutely. But whats wrong with that? What, you can't like F2P games because forum-cool-kids-club said so?I've never noticed him "bashing and mocking people who don't share the same opinion". However, I always see people bashing and mocking from him just because he chose to write about F2P games. Just read comments of any article that he wrote, just read comments of this article. They are horrible. So again, any sources of him bashing and mocking people would be much appreciated.
He continues the above argument. The only reason people don't like F2P is because they don't want to see the "truth".
There a lot more, there hardly goes an article where he doesn't take the opportunity to question the intelligence of people who doesn't like F2P continuing to claim they have no rational arguments. Note that he has never ever responded to any comments or rational arguments, at best he makes a comment in his next article dismissing ALL negative comments as uninformed and just emotional.
In any other context he would be called a simple Troll and as a lot of other people have said if they made similar statements they would moderated and possibly banned.
Thank you for looking this up. I didn't want to waste any more of my time on this.
His old posts could be used as a "f2p lovers handbook". His first comment in this 'f2p haters handbook' would fit perfectly for it.
If you want something good, you pay for it. When that "good" thing is not good anymore, it goes free. That's why it goes from P2P to Freemium and not from F2P to Freemium.
This is for mr. Aihoshi to understand:
You marry someone, you can have free sex. That's F2P. But in time, you realise that free sex thing implies many many other little investments, gets boring after a while and in the end it's not worth it.
If you want good sex, you go to a hooker. You pay for it and forget about it. That's P2P. Usually hookers are professionals, they know to do more things and usually do things better than your wife, when it comes to pleasing you. When a hooker gets old and loses her customers, she must re-focus. She advertises her merchandise for free, aiming to get married. That's Freemium. Are you the one aiming to marry the hooker, mr Aihoshi?
Maybe its because some of the community may be against F2P but are still more objective than the supposed journalist and are actually interested in hearing the other side of the debate.
But when all they get is baiting or personal attacks for having an opinion, those even-tempered community members will likely lose interest in his column and become dismissive of the journalist.
I think this first paragraph Sums up Mr. Aihoshi accuaretly.
The only thing I HATE in this conversation is how both F2P and P2P gamers seem to think their shi* doesn't stink and assume they have the right to inform others of which "way" is best.
I will play whatever I damn well please whether P2P, F2P, or B2P or what-the-frack-ever. And guess what....so will most gamers. They make their own choices and the majority of the time they don't bother to consider what someone ELSE thinks about F2P or P2P.
Your strong opinion does not make you right, it only makes you opinionated. Yes, you, Richard, and also the people that are so busy telling you off.
Just one opinion. I just get sick of people arguing about things that seem pretty pointless in the grand scheme of things. Someone else's opinion about an MMO payment plan seems about as important to me as how fast the paint on my house is drying, and pretty much as interesting.
The only thing I HATE in this conversation is how both F2P and P2P gamers seem to think their shi* doesn't stink and assume they have the right to inform others of which "way" is best.
I will play whatever I damn well please whether P2P, F2P, or B2P or what-the-frack-ever. And guess what....so will most gamers. They make their own choices and the majority of the time they don't bother to consider what someone ELSE thinks about F2P or P2P.
Your strong opinion does not make you right, it only makes you opinionated. Yes, you, Richard, and also the people that are so busy telling you off.
Just one opinion. I just get sick of people arguing about things that seem pretty pointless in the grand scheme of things. Someone else's opinion about an MMO payment plan seems about as important to me as how fast the paint on my house is drying, and pretty much as interesting.
In many cases the negatives people raise when discussing their dislike of F2P models are not opinion but actually facts, especially in terms of how some F2P MMO's are designed.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
I'd be interested in you posting the F2P games that in fact are just like you stated above, so I could give one of them a try. (please, no fremiums, that doesn't count despite what Richard wants to believe)
I've tried a dozen or so F2P games over the years and they all pretty much fall into the sterotypical cash shop, heavy grinding, P2W model (or at least P2 have fun) and perhaps I've just been unlucky. Some please recommend their favorite F2P that doesn't fit this mold and I'll give it a go.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Some of them say that there are F2P mmorpgs on the market that are completely free to play and don't end up in a P2W situation someplace down the line. Please, show me these games. I have yet to see a F2P mmorpg that at some point doesn't ask for your money.
Power to the Sheeple
Yay...yet another person on the 'stat cap' train! If you actually played, you'd know just how useful they actually are. If you're going to pick something to complain about in the Lotro shop - at least pick something that IS useful - like the power pots!
As usual, great article Richard! You really know how to play your audience
!
I guess itgrowls hasn't been to the store in a while. They're selling Legendary Weapons. They are desperate - all these success stories are about marketing and pulling everyone else into the same pit so they have a level playing field.
Lotro is completely gutted - there's no 'playing' anymore and no sense of accomplishment from getting things done. There is no reason for guilds to ban together - one guy making black dye, another making leather armor, another making heavy armor - to get a uniform look - go buy it. Crafting is gutted - go buy it. Legendary quests are gutted - go buy it. No more working for weeks to attain anything - go buy it.
If you can buy everything in the game, what is the sense in playing? Are you playing dolls? Why not just get a Legolas standy, throw a negligee on it, do your thing and save your money?
I don't know what purpose such a post as this will serve other fanning flames.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
It fulfills the objective of a columnist - to get people to view and/or comment.
Look into Vindictus, Dungeon Fighter Online and Dragon Nest (OB July 26th). Although all 3 games eventually become a bit grindy (due to a lack of content in some areas) but it's not as heavy as most MMOs, especially since the Fatigue/Dungeon Limit systems were entirely removed in all 3 games. Breaking down all 3 games based on Loktofeit's points:
Vindictus:
1. Cash Shop items are not needed to play. It contains Avatars (Vanity), potions and revival items, which are not needed unless you want to solo everything. Party Members can revive you using Feathers and Party Feathers (a regular in-game item), and for Raid Content which can be very challenging, an organized party (mostly guilds) will be able to do the work without problem.
2.The game is entirely Free To Play, all content is accessible.
3. Has PvP. Cash Shop irrelevant.
4. Still true, majority of players don't pay anything.
5. Has constantly been updated since Launch, we're very close to catching up the Korean version (We're on Episode 8, Episode 9 should be released later this year. Korea just released episode 10 last month).
6. Also true.
Dungeon Fighter Online:
1. Cash Shop does offer some game altering items (Avatars). Avatars can be traded in-game with other players using in-game currency though (Gold), so even players who never spend a buck can gain access to them.
2. Game is still entirely free to play and you're not locked out of Content.
3. Has PvP, Avatars are not necessary early on but do give an important edge. Still, can be bought using in-game currency from other players so does not imbalance the game has much.
4. Still true, majority of players don't pay.
5. Also has been constantly updated since Launch, although the game has much more content to go through compared to Vindictus. Still, DFO is catching up well with it's korean version.
6. Also true.
Dragon Nest: Very similar to Vindictus. Cash Shop info has yet to be released, but given Nexon's track record it will be similar to either Vindictus or Dungeon Fighter Online.
But he doesn't write about F2P, at least not in the actual gaming world. All he ever does is complain about how dumb people who dont like the idea of F2P are. I've yet to see him provide actual reasons and examples to like it in practice. This article is typical; he's all "haters gonna hate LOL", but does he provide counter-examples that prove them wrong? Does he admit that there are examples that give the haters ammunition and write about how they're unrepresentative? Does he provide substantial analysis about how F2P can improve gameplay?
Nope, he just makes weak strawmen out of the less articulate arguments against his One True Path and ignores the well written, coherent ones that he has no answer to.
At best, he's just a poor writer. At worst he's an out-and-out troll.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Confucius say cash shop like cheap slut; more money you put in, more she put out.
WHat's the difference between this article, and the how to write a post article? I didn't see that get as much flaming or out right insults?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
He writes a lot about F2Ps in general. In fact, it's been a while since he wrote an article aimed directly at "F2P Haters", you can just look at his history and see it for yourself. Throughout his articles, he often points out why F2P is "superior" in certain ways. But there's no need to go all out with an article ONLY about why F2P is better, for the simply reason that F2P supporters will enjoy the article, but will not learn anything from it because they already know about it. And the F2P "haters" won't learn a thing because they don't want to. It won't convince anyone basically.
And just before someone tries to call me out for no specific reason when I mention "hater", let me clarify. When I mention F2P Haters, I mean members who attempts to make opinions pass as facts, deny all existing proofs from the opposite side (the F2P supporter's) despite their (the hater's) lack of any factual evidence saves for a F2P MMORPG or 2 that they played that one time and saw the cash shop, which led them to their crusade against the F2P all-together. Like members saying: "All people who play F2Ps just want to buy their way to the top" or "the F2P model is dying", when research have shown that over 70% of gamers play F2P games, and that approximatively 70% of of F2P gamers never spend a dime.
That's an exemple of hater. Denial of all evidences, or as Tim Minchin would say "Faith is the denial of observations so that belief can be preserved".
There's a distinct difference between this article and the how to write a post article.
And this is that whenever you take an issue that's based on opinion or preference rather than fact, pick a side in it, and then bash the opposing side, all you're doing is stoking the flames.
I guarantee that were this article written in the same tone and manner, but the subject matter about those who prefered console gaming over PC gaming, PvP over PvE, casual over hardcore gaming, I can guerantee that it would have drummed up the same amount of vitriol.
The mocking tone of this article crosses the line because it is mocking people's personal opinions, and insinuating that their opinion is less important than that of the writer's, which if what Aihoshi seems to do often.
This article has done nothing but stir up drama, and just needs to die and fade away just like any other flame-bait should.
I just read both and the wording used as well as satire used are basiclly the same, that was the point I was making. Even the structure was similar, if anything it was as if RA copied that article.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
P2P haters gonna hate.
The problem is the subject matter in combination with Aihoshi's history of bashing and mocking people who don't share the same opinion as him, even using many of the same claims made in this very article.
If this same article was written by one of the columinists for this site that has a better reputation of professionalism and contributing objective and constructive articles, which in my opinion is pretty much any other columnist for this site, then there would have been far less fallout.
But regardless, the topic itself is controversial because the topic itself is largely based on perspective and opinion. As I mentioned before, this article has been been about as productive as a flame-baiting Casual vs. Hardcode post, which again, is another cotroversial topic based on perspective and preference.
Were this 'article' posted by a regular member, it would have near immediately been taken down due to 'trolling'.
Nice article man
History of bashing people? What? Could you please show us any proof of that said history? Because I, personally, think that what you've wrote is... well bs.
He has a long history of it. You can read his past articles.
I often read his articles. I really like that he analyze various statistics and then base his opinion on it. Is he in favor of F2P games? Yes, absolutely. But whats wrong with that? What, you can't like F2P games because forum-cool-kids-club said so?
I've never noticed him "bashing and mocking people who don't share the same opinion". However, I always see people bashing and mocking from him just because he chose to write about F2P games. Just read comments of any article that he wrote, just read comments of this article. They are horrible. So again, any sources of him bashing and mocking people would be much appreciated.
Stuck in Denial
He insinuates that people do not like F2P don't do it for rational reasons but because they are in denial.
Are You an MMOG Snob
He continue to imply that people who don't like F2P don't have any rational reason and therefor snobs.
The Old Curiosity Shop
He continues the above argument. The only reason people don't like F2P is because they don't want to see the "truth".
There a lot more, there hardly goes an article where he doesn't take the opportunity to question the intelligence of people who doesn't like F2P continuing to claim they have no rational arguments. Note that he has never ever responded to any comments or rational arguments, at best he makes a comment in his next article dismissing ALL negative comments as uninformed and just emotional.
In any other context he would be called a simple Troll and as a lot of other people have said if they made similar statements they would moderated and possibly banned.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Thank you for looking this up. I didn't want to waste any more of my time on this.
His old posts could be used as a "f2p lovers handbook". His first comment in this 'f2p haters handbook' would fit perfectly for it.
If you want something good, you pay for it. When that "good" thing is not good anymore, it goes free. That's why it goes from P2P to Freemium and not from F2P to Freemium.
This is for mr. Aihoshi to understand:
You marry someone, you can have free sex. That's F2P. But in time, you realise that free sex thing implies many many other little investments, gets boring after a while and in the end it's not worth it.
If you want good sex, you go to a hooker. You pay for it and forget about it. That's P2P. Usually hookers are professionals, they know to do more things and usually do things better than your wife, when it comes to pleasing you. When a hooker gets old and loses her customers, she must re-focus. She advertises her merchandise for free, aiming to get married. That's Freemium. Are you the one aiming to marry the hooker, mr Aihoshi?
I think this first paragraph Sums up Mr. Aihoshi accuaretly.
"One word, Thundercougarfalconbird."
The only thing I HATE in this conversation is how both F2P and P2P gamers seem to think their shi* doesn't stink and assume they have the right to inform others of which "way" is best.
I will play whatever I damn well please whether P2P, F2P, or B2P or what-the-frack-ever. And guess what....so will most gamers. They make their own choices and the majority of the time they don't bother to consider what someone ELSE thinks about F2P or P2P.
Your strong opinion does not make you right, it only makes you opinionated. Yes, you, Richard, and also the people that are so busy telling you off.
Just one opinion. I just get sick of people arguing about things that seem pretty pointless in the grand scheme of things. Someone else's opinion about an MMO payment plan seems about as important to me as how fast the paint on my house is drying, and pretty much as interesting.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
In many cases the negatives people raise when discussing their dislike of F2P models are not opinion but actually facts, especially in terms of how some F2P MMO's are designed.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon