These comments by 'demo players' really aren't worth much. I put more stock in the reviews around the net by people who have played the game from start to finish, they don't sway whether i'll play it or not but at least they give an accurate picture of what i should expect.
.... no one has played the game from start to finish.... and nobody will until launch..... so... basically.. . . . you don't take stock in what anyone says?
These comments by 'demo players' really aren't worth much. I put more stock in the reviews around the net by people who have played the game from start to finish, they don't sway whether i'll play it or not but at least they give an accurate picture of what i should expect.
.... no one has played the game from start to finish.... and nobody will until launch..... so... basically.. . . . you don't take stock in what anyone says?
Not even any of the games developers!? Boy that could cause some problems.
"Hey hows the end game content looking Ted?"
"How I should I know, I thought Bob was working on that."
"Hey Bob, hows that end game content coming?"
"What end game content? No one ever said anything to me about end game content."
"So has anyone been working on end game content? No!? The game goes live in less than two months!!!! WTF have you guys been doing!?"
"Well I've just been loading jawas up with rocket launchers this whole time."
"BLEEP you, Bob."
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Potapithikos you need to take a few steps back and realize something. Forums are where the vocal minority post about things they feel are wrong or right with something. Usually if someone is extensively looking at something like SWTOR and badmouthing it without much, if any --credibility it is to serve an alterior motive. The motive here is obviously to encourage people that SWTOR is a bad game. The other idea is that you follow the game because it scares you into thinking it may take something away from the game you currently play.
Maybe you just come here to badmouth the game because you don't believe into all the hype, but the fact that you are even paying attention shows otherwise. I have been following Maverick's posts for a while now and although I do believe he is in the "SWTOR Boat" if you will, he has never really sided with it as some kind of fanboi. The information he posts is always in regards to the feedback from people who have actually played the game.
You could argue what is and is not an MMORPG all day long, but there are several facts here. The game will have flashpoints,warzones, operations, and group quests. All of that which will have anywhere between 2 and 24 people in them. So there will be multiplayer. The game world is huge and they have demonstrated this several times, (or atleast by comparison, big as or bigger then current MMORPGs) so it is massive. The game consists of the usual leveling,character customization, and item farmfest as other RPGs. So it has roleplaying. It is online..not really an explanation needed here. It is a game, obviously. So take all these into consideration and flip the order I put them in around a bit and what do you get? An MMORPG.
I read your original post and it was juvenile at best. And no forums is not for positive opinions only 1) but no one shoudl try to pass their opinions as facts. As far your deductive skills to analyze info? lol i had to laugh at that one. That is a more polite way to say 'hey i am still talking out of my a**". Play the game or a demo/trial then give us your opinions in a mature way without making any reference to sh*t/poop etc and some one might take you seriously.
1) Good thing noone did then. Unless you've somehow managed to find a way to turn an opinion on a subjective matter into fact.
2) if you aren't capable of making deductions on a game from demos, interviews on content and game mechanics etc it's ok. Nothing to be ashamed of, or laught at others that can to make you feel better. Pay and play then make your judgement if that's your thing.
I'll give my opinion anyway i see fit (moderation willing) and the only person i am concerned abou taking it seriously is myself...
You seem quite confident of your deduction skills that game is going to suck. So forgive me if it is hard to take your opinion merely as an opinion. Also your opinion is based on hersay and what you have read or seen not what you experinced first hands. And even if want to arrive at a conclusion on basis of all info avilable on internet, it would be fairly positive. But atleast i am not trying to shove that down everyone's throat now am i?
These comments by 'demo players' really aren't worth much. I put more stock in the reviews around the net by people who have played the game from start to finish, they don't sway whether i'll play it or not but at least they give an accurate picture of what i should expect.
It is always interesting to read what the demo players say but I wouldn't decide to buy or not buy a game based on what hey say, no.
With a game like TOR I expect to get a free weekend or a free trial before buying it, just like I expect from any other P2P game. B2P games I just get, mostly because support their payment method but also because I kbnow what playing them actually cost.
With games like TOR I read up on the forum but it is still the trial that makes or breaks the game for me. If nothing else it will keep me from comming here and whine about a game I preordered that was unplayable.
These comments by 'demo players' really aren't worth much. I put more stock in the reviews around the net by people who have played the game from start to finish, they don't sway whether i'll play it or not but at least they give an accurate picture of what i should expect.
.... no one has played the game from start to finish.... and nobody will until launch..... so... basically.. . . . you don't take stock in what anyone says?
Not even any of the games developers!? Boy that could cause some problems.
"Hey hows the end game content looking Ted?"
"How I should I know, I thought Bob was working on that."
"Hey Bob, hows that end game content coming?"
"What end game content? No one ever said anything to me about end game content."
"So has anyone been working on end game content? No!? The game goes live in less than two months!!!! WTF have you guys been doing!?"
"Well I've just been loading jawas up with rocket launchers this whole time."
"BLEEP you, Bob."
You think this is funny? Because the sad thing is that this is true in a lot of cases. I'm intimately familiar with this as I've been playing EQ2 for over 7 years now. There are tons of examples of this. I mean, they launched 5 new zones recently in which the mobs were doing DOUBLE the intended damage. No one knew. I mean how do you not notice that as a developer? I mean, if you play it at least once and you parse, you'd know. Which says..they didn't play it - EVER. It wasn't an occassional bug or anything, it was the entire zone was set to double-attack or somesuch.
So yeah, your post was obviously meant to be humorous, but it's entirely possible and even probable that the DEVs have never touched their own game (at worst) or that they didn't do as much testing as necessary (at best).
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
There's often 50 to 200 people working on an MMORPG. I'm pretty sure that all those devs won't have tested and played every single aspect of an MMORPG, it's more likely that each is more familiar with only parts of the whole MMORPG, and that there are maybe only some who have gone through the whole MMORPG. We're talking about hundreds to thousands of hours, and that's only for one run-through of everything.
For extensive, iterative testing of every aspect you'll have your QA testing department. At least, that's how it works with a lot of large scale software development projects where dozens to hundreds of people are involved.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
These comments by 'demo players' really aren't worth much. I put more stock in the reviews around the net by people who have played the game from start to finish, they don't sway whether i'll play it or not but at least they give an accurate picture of what i should expect.
.... no one has played the game from start to finish.... and nobody will until launch..... so... basically.. . . . you don't take stock in what anyone says?
Not even any of the games developers!? Boy that could cause some problems.
"Hey hows the end game content looking Ted?"
"How I should I know, I thought Bob was working on that."
"Hey Bob, hows that end game content coming?"
"What end game content? No one ever said anything to me about end game content."
"So has anyone been working on end game content? No!? The game goes live in less than two months!!!! WTF have you guys been doing!?"
"Well I've just been loading jawas up with rocket launchers this whole time."
"BLEEP you, Bob."
You think this is funny? Because the sad thing is that this is true in a lot of cases. I'm intimately familiar with this as I've been playing EQ2 for over 7 years now. There are tons of examples of this. I mean, they launched 5 new zones recently in which the mobs were doing DOUBLE the intended damage. No one knew. I mean how do you not notice that as a developer? I mean, if you play it at least once and you parse, you'd know. Which says..they didn't play it - EVER. It wasn't an occassional bug or anything, it was the entire zone was set to double-attack or somesuch.
So yeah, your post was obviously meant to be humorous, but it's entirely possible and even probable that the DEVs have never touched their own game (at worst) or that they didn't do as much testing as necessary (at best).
Yes I do think its funny. Bollocks bouncingly funny. Especially when it actually turns out to be true as in the case of totally shyte quality control companies like SOE. I feel you are deluding yourself if you think that those kind of obvious and glaring errors happen because nobody from the company played the game. The fact is, is that some companies such as SOE just flat out do not care, (SOE haven't cared since about the third EQ 1 expansion.) This has been an issue with video games since long before MMOs even existed. Some companies worry most about game quality and spend the extra time and money going over the game with a fine toothed comb before release. Others worry only about deadlines and profit margins so get the product out the door as fast as possble and damn the consequences. I'm pretty certain, though I admit DAO2 did plant a tiny seed of doubt, that Bioware is one of the former kinds of companies and not one of the latter.
And when it comes to companies of the latter sort, such as SOE, who have a incredibly long track record of this behavior, yet mysteriously still get people to buy their games and expansions, I don't feel one bit sorry for anyone involved as they should have known better.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I feel you are deluding yourself if you think that those kind of obvious and glaring errors happen because nobody from the company played the game. The fact is, is that some companies such as SOE just flat out do not care
Oh i don't think that nobody from the company plays the game. I DO think that no one from the company went in an properly parsed out the dungeons (or majority of the other content) versus any kinds of standards.
I also think people are deluding themselves thinking that Blizzard or BioWare or EA or any other of the "massive" companies are any different in terms of treating their customers or looking after their games.
Smaller companies such as CCP and Icarus (Fallen Earth) tend to be better. Not that any company is perfect (see the recent CCP mess) but at leas they tend to communicate more openly. I also have a bit of a bias towards funcom as i've found their developers actually respond to community questions with their own opinions than with marketing-speak (at least they did on AO and AoC) but they're getting pretty big now, so it's only a matter of time before they get as bad as BioWare.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
These comments by 'demo players' really aren't worth much. I put more stock in the reviews around the net by people who have played the game from start to finish, they don't sway whether i'll play it or not but at least they give an accurate picture of what i should expect.
.... no one has played the game from start to finish.... and nobody will until launch..... so... basically.. . . . you don't take stock in what anyone says?
well testers are supposedly getting the opportunity to. at E3 it was mentioned the the game is completely put together on one server. can't find the daniel erickson interview where talked about it abit more. but found the james ohlen one where he mentions that they have a contest going in the office to see who can reach cap first
Smaller companies such as CCP and Icarus (Fallen Earth) tend to be better. Not that any company is perfect (see the recent CCP mess) but at leas they tend to communicate more openly. I also have a bit of a bias towards funcom as i've found their developers actually respond to community questions with their own opinions than with marketing-speak (at least they did on AO and AoC) but they're getting pretty big now, so it's only a matter of time before they get as bad as BioWare.
'as bad as Bioware'?
Sorry, don't agree with you there, they're pretty open and fair in what they talk about, and yes, I prefer their style above the one that Funcom reps as Gaute or those Warhammer guys used, which was a lot of testosterone filled talk about visions and features that didn't even make it ingame
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Arguments about SWTOR not being an MMO fall short on one point of their argument - that raids aren't in at level 1. There is literally NO MMO with raids at level 1.
Arguments about raiding at level 50 being limited to 20 people are also pretty baseless. I'd say most of WOW's raiding content was not 40-man raids. Most was 10-15 people (if you discount the leveling instances, which required 5 people - in this case, 80% of content in WOW was really 5-man oriented and this really kills the argument). So, by this argument, WoW is not an MMO. Which is just plain silly.
So the point of contention appears to be 1 player difference (if they think WOW is an MMO - which is a big supposition) in leveling content. Umm... what? One player makes it not massive? *scratch head*
Massively as an adjective is subjective. However, a multiplayer game is usually comprised of 2-8 people, perhaps 12 in FPS, but in most RPGs, it tends to be 4-6 players. You can be in a zone with (per what I've seen in videos) hundreds of players at a time in TOR, perhaps thousands if some sort of server event occurs. Hence, Massively applies (say, even at 100 players, which will be pretty low on Tython at release). Each area will have 10X the amount of people (that you can /tell, chat with, etc.) than an average multiplayer/co-op game.
As far as people following on games they hate, some people have to amuse themselves somehow. They probably get some sort of perverse joy out of antagonizing people who are finding something fun, enjoyable and want to "pull the rug out" from anyone who is happy or excited.
I've seen this on a number of different forums, but here it tends to be much higher, which sort of limits my posting here, because flat-out, some people want to just piss you off, and get their chuckle and jollies out of making people upset and unhappy.
Hence the term "troll". They make many statements about how their argument is completely valid and true (in their point of view) and how they have every right to post their opinion, because it is true. From their point of view. This is logic that can't really be faulted. I can think that all (insert race) here are lazy, and it would be true... from a certain point of view. Try as you might with every bit of documentation you wish, you can't really change their viewpoint, and thus, this discussion never ends.
Suggestion: End the discussion yourself, block the user. He won't have useful input here, and likely, anywhere else. I'd be willing to bet that if you tracked him somehow across multiple forums, you'd see a pretty nasty picture, overall - and not a person you'd talk to IRL.
These comments by 'demo players' really aren't worth much. I put more stock in the reviews around the net by people who have played the game from start to finish, they don't sway whether i'll play it or not but at least they give an accurate picture of what i should expect.
.... no one has played the game from start to finish.... and nobody will until launch..... so... basically.. . . . you don't take stock in what anyone says?
well testers are supposedly getting the opportunity to. at E3 it was mentioned the the game is completely put together on one server. can't find the daniel erickson interview where talked about it abit more. but found the james ohlen one where he mentions that they have a contest going in the office to see who can reach cap first
Testers likely are getting to play through the entirety of content... (well, most of it anyways) but I don't think there will be too many that play the game from start to finish, and then go on to write a comprehensive review about their time in beta afterwards.
I would imagine at this point we'd see a lot of focus testing in the areas that matter, and various playtesting, but I would think in a game as large as SWTOR, even after cap, there will be more than enough things to do where you wouldn't consider yourself to be "finished" with the game.
These comments by 'demo players' really aren't worth much. I put more stock in the reviews around the net by people who have played the game from start to finish, they don't sway whether i'll play it or not but at least they give an accurate picture of what i should expect.
.... no one has played the game from start to finish.... and nobody will until launch..... so... basically.. . . . you don't take stock in what anyone says?
well testers are supposedly getting the opportunity to. at E3 it was mentioned the the game is completely put together on one server. can't find the daniel erickson interview where talked about it abit more. but found the james ohlen one where he mentions that they have a contest going in the office to see who can reach cap first
Testers likely are getting to play through the entirety of content... (well, most of it anyways) but I don't think there will be too many that play the game from start to finish, and then go on to write a comprehensive review about their time in beta afterwards.
I would imagine at this point we'd see a lot of focus testing in the areas that matter, and various playtesting, but I would think in a game as large as SWTOR, even after cap, there will be more than enough things to do where you wouldn't consider yourself to be "finished" with the game.
These comments by 'demo players' really aren't worth much. I put more stock in the reviews around the net by people who have played the game from start to finish, they don't sway whether i'll play it or not but at least they give an accurate picture of what i should expect.
.... no one has played the game from start to finish.... and nobody will until launch..... so... basically.. . . . you don't take stock in what anyone says?
well testers are supposedly getting the opportunity to. at E3 it was mentioned the the game is completely put together on one server. can't find the daniel erickson interview where talked about it abit more. but found the james ohlen one where he mentions that they have a contest going in the office to see who can reach cap first
I actually missed some of that interview. Some nice info James talkes about.
-Can play the game from 1 to 50 currently and yes, there is a contest with rewards to reach level 50 first.
-Warzones are being tested up to and at level 50
-All the social aspects are in the game and being tested. Guilds, Friends list, chat, and AH. Said that the AH on Coruscant is up and running with players posting and buying items.
-Elder game is currently being tested and polished. He said some of the features in at level 50 are 3 warzones, flashpoints, raids and an entire elder game planet for repeatable game play. And yes, flashpoints and raids were plural. Doesn't mean there are more than one, but it could mean that.
-Things they are looking to put in at or after launch are guild ships, refining chat and communication with the game outside of the game.
So it does sound like elder game testing and polishing is in the works now. And everything in the game looks to be tested at least by the devs and family memebers. Not sure about the public testers, but I wouldn't be suprised if they could test to 50 as well.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
Something i don't understand about the game and haven't seen cleared up, or i just missed it.
I played wow for years, and having played the other Warcraft games, especially with all the changes in Cata, i was legit interested in the lore.
But it took too long to read questsand watch movies as i rushed to raid, and when questing with friends they didn't want to wait while i read quest text. I would go back later in my own time, level an alt from 1-85, experience the zones and the lore at my own pace and enjoy it hat way.
Now, everything i read about ToR is people stressing that this is in fact an mmo, but it has MORE story and actual voice acting, how exciting!
Can this stuff be soloed though? I plan on taking a more leisurely way through ToR when it comes out,a nd i don't particularly want to be rushed by group members who want to move forward.
These comments by 'demo players' really aren't worth much. I put more stock in the reviews around the net by people who have played the game from start to finish, they don't sway whether i'll play it or not but at least they give an accurate picture of what i should expect.
.... no one has played the game from start to finish.... and nobody will until launch..... so... basically.. . . . you don't take stock in what anyone says?
well testers are supposedly getting the opportunity to. at E3 it was mentioned the the game is completely put together on one server. can't find the daniel erickson interview where talked about it abit more. but found the james ohlen one where he mentions that they have a contest going in the office to see who can reach cap first
I actually missed some of that interview. Some nice info James talkes about.
-Can play the game from 1 to 50 currently and yes, there is a contest with rewards to reach level 50 first.
-Warzones are being tested up to and at level 50
-All the social aspects are in the game and being tested. Guilds, Friends list, chat, and AH. Said that the AH on Coruscant is up and running with players posting and buying items.
-Elder game is currently being tested and polished. He said some of the features in at level 50 are 3 warzones, flashpoints, raids and an entire elder game planet for repeatable game play. And yes, flashpoints and raids were plural. Doesn't mean there are more than one, but it could mean that.
-Things they are looking to put in at or after launch are guild ships, refining chat and communication with the game outside of the game.
So it does sound like elder game testing and polishing is in the works now. And everything in the game looks to be tested at least by the devs and family memebers. Not sure about the public testers, but I wouldn't be suprised if they could test to 50 as well.
that contest is solely an in house thing among the devs. georg zoeller commented recently that they had no plans for server first for first to cap reward.
Something i don't understand about the game and haven't seen cleared up, or i just missed it.
I played wow for years, and having played the other Warcraft games, especially with all the changes in Cata, i was legit interested in the lore.
But it took too long to read questsand watch movies as i rushed to raid, and when questing with friends they didn't want to wait while i read quest text. I would go back later in my own time, level an alt from 1-85, experience the zones and the lore at my own pace and enjoy it hat way.
Now, everything i read about ToR is people stressing that this is in fact an mmo, but it has MORE story and actual voice acting, how exciting!
Can this stuff be soloed though? I plan on taking a more leisurely way through ToR when it comes out,a nd i don't particularly want to be rushed by group members who want to move forward.
There will be a lot that can be soloed for the most part from what I understand.
The class quest arc is aimed at a solo experience from 1 to 50. It is your characters personal story. It can be played in a group up to 4 players. But only the main character, your character, can make dialogue choices.
Open world quests can be played solo as well. They are not part of your story, but your choices in your class arc will effect how these NPC's react to you. These can also be played in a group up to 4. And while in group, you will be in the multi-dialogue with a roll for what choice is made.
The side game of space combat missions is a solo experience only at launch.
From the video above, there will be a level 50 planet. Some of that would probably be solo.
What will not be solo, at least at your characters level, are heroic areas, flashpoints (dungeons), world group quest chains and raids. It was said that you could out level some of the content and go back to do them solo. But the higher in level you get, the more difficult that would be.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
Something i don't understand about the game and haven't seen cleared up, or i just missed it.
I played wow for years, and having played the other Warcraft games, especially with all the changes in Cata, i was legit interested in the lore.
But it took too long to read questsand watch movies as i rushed to raid, and when questing with friends they didn't want to wait while i read quest text. I would go back later in my own time, level an alt from 1-85, experience the zones and the lore at my own pace and enjoy it hat way.
Now, everything i read about ToR is people stressing that this is in fact an mmo, but it has MORE story and actual voice acting, how exciting!
Can this stuff be soloed though? I plan on taking a more leisurely way through ToR when it comes out,a nd i don't particularly want to be rushed by group members who want to move forward.
they have said you can solo to cap and that you can do your personal class story completely solo(you can group and do it too, but it can also be soloed). however you will miss content if you only solo. there are group(heroic) quests and world arcs that they said are deigned to be done in groups(although we recently learned about a world arc boss instance that scales depending on how many people enter it, so we will need to see how that works). plus flashpoints would need a group although you could always find someone to just group up with and run those on your main if you wanted
These comments by 'demo players' really aren't worth much. I put more stock in the reviews around the net by people who have played the game from start to finish, they don't sway whether i'll play it or not but at least they give an accurate picture of what i should expect.
.... no one has played the game from start to finish.... and nobody will until launch..... so... basically.. . . . you don't take stock in what anyone says?
well testers are supposedly getting the opportunity to. at E3 it was mentioned the the game is completely put together on one server. can't find the daniel erickson interview where talked about it abit more. but found the james ohlen one where he mentions that they have a contest going in the office to see who can reach cap first
I actually missed some of that interview. Some nice info James talkes about.
-Can play the game from 1 to 50 currently and yes, there is a contest with rewards to reach level 50 first.
-Warzones are being tested up to and at level 50
-All the social aspects are in the game and being tested. Guilds, Friends list, chat, and AH. Said that the AH on Coruscant is up and running with players posting and buying items.
-Elder game is currently being tested and polished. He said some of the features in at level 50 are 3 warzones, flashpoints, raids and an entire elder game planet for repeatable game play. And yes, flashpoints and raids were plural. Doesn't mean there are more than one, but it could mean that.
-Things they are looking to put in at or after launch are guild ships, refining chat and communication with the game outside of the game.
So it does sound like elder game testing and polishing is in the works now. And everything in the game looks to be tested at least by the devs and family memebers. Not sure about the public testers, but I wouldn't be suprised if they could test to 50 as well.
that contest is solely an in house thing among the devs. georg zoeller commented recently that they had no plans for server first for first to cap reward.
I meant to agree with the quote of in office, I should have put that in my post. Thanks for catching that. Always keeping me honest.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
I feel you are deluding yourself if you think that those kind of obvious and glaring errors happen because nobody from the company played the game. The fact is, is that some companies such as SOE just flat out do not care
Oh i don't think that nobody from the company plays the game. I DO think that no one from the company went in an properly parsed out the dungeons (or majority of the other content) versus any kinds of standards.
I also think people are deluding themselves thinking that Blizzard or BioWare or EA or any other of the "massive" companies are any different in terms of treating their customers or looking after their games.
Smaller companies such as CCP and Icarus (Fallen Earth) tend to be better. Not that any company is perfect (see the recent CCP mess) but at leas they tend to communicate more openly. I also have a bit of a bias towards funcom as i've found their developers actually respond to community questions with their own opinions than with marketing-speak (at least they did on AO and AoC) but they're getting pretty big now, so it's only a matter of time before they get as bad as BioWare.
Yeah CCP know their customer base so well they just had a riot on their hands. Plus they were forced to communicate when that idiot let out an internal company email, plus they are developing their big side project connected to their successful PC game at the console industry. I'm not sure CCP is doing the wonderful job you think they are doing. But then again I'm not entirely sure they aren't either. We will have to see how both the monocle fiasco and Dust 514 shake out before we should actually judge them. Which I would recommend people do with most companies, such as Bioware**. Sadly though it seems some people only judge them on how successful they are. Its an attitude very similar to fans of fledgling music acts that start yelling "sell out" the minute their own private precious band starts getting attention from people they don't consider to be part of the in crowd.
**Though not SOE as they have done this silly crap way too many times to have any integrity left. SOEs motto should be "You Can't Fix Stupid."
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
So, maybe the question that people should ask themselves is: do I enjoy the MMO feel in current themepark MMORPG's?
Well said.
I think this is what divides a lot of the pro-SWTOR and pro-GW2 crowd.
I fall on the side of not enjoying the MMO feel of current themepark MMORPGs. In fact, I play nearly all of them as single player games, unless the game forces me to do otherwise. It's just more convenient, I don't like having to "actively" look for a group in order to play with other people.
That's one of the reasons why I'm more attracted to the dynamic events in GW2 over the more traditional questing/instances in SWTOR. Because you walk into an event and BAM you're playing with other players trying to reach a common goal, no legwork required. It just makes the world feel more "alive" to me.
That said, I realize this is just my opinion. I'm sure others are perfectly fine with the more "active" approach to grouping required by the current themepark MMORPGs. But I think looking at our differences this way could help us understand why we gravitate to different games.
So, maybe the question that people should ask themselves is: do I enjoy the MMO feel in current themepark MMORPG's?
Well said.
I think this is what divides a lot of the pro-SWTOR and pro-GW2 crowd.
I fall on the side of not enjoying the MMO feel of current themepark MMORPGs. In fact, I play nearly all of them as single player games, unless the game forces me to do otherwise. It's just more convenient, I don't like having to "actively" look for a group in order to play with other people.
That's one of the reasons why I'm more attracted to the dynamic events in GW2 over the more traditional questing/instances in SWTOR. Because you walk into an event and BAM you're playing with other players trying to reach a common goal, no legwork required. It just makes the world feel more "alive" to me.
That said, I realize this is just my opinion. I'm sure others are perfectly fine with the more "active" approach to grouping required by the current themepark MMORPGs. But I think looking at our differences this way could help us understand why we gravitate to different games.
That is the same reason I will be playing GW2 as well. It will be nice for a change of pace to just be able to jump in to any event going on and be a part of a larger group. But unless you are with friends or in a guild, there wont' be much interaction. And you won't be doing much of the dungeons either.
That is why my main will be TOR and the possibility of the grouping all through the leveling process. With the flashpoints and world group quests. It is more likey you will be involved with others and form bonds with those you play with on a daily basis. Having to interact to get through the group content. Ofc in todays day and age of teamspeak and ventrillo. It may not happen even in TOR. You may just get ignored while looking for a PUG. But I am hopefull that will not be the case.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
So, maybe the question that people should ask themselves is: do I enjoy the MMO feel in current themepark MMORPG's?
Well said.
I think this is what divides a lot of the pro-SWTOR and pro-GW2 crowd.
I fall on the side of not enjoying the MMO feel of current themepark MMORPGs. In fact, I play nearly all of them as single player games, unless the game forces me to do otherwise. It's just more convenient, I don't like having to "actively" look for a group in order to play with other people.
That's one of the reasons why I'm more attracted to the dynamic events in GW2 over the more traditional questing/instances in SWTOR. Because you walk into an event and BAM you're playing with other players trying to reach a common goal, no legwork required. It just makes the world feel more "alive" to me.
That said, I realize this is just my opinion. I'm sure others are perfectly fine with the more "active" approach to grouping required by the current themepark MMORPGs. But I think looking at our differences this way could help us understand why we gravitate to different games.
That is the same reason I will be playing GW2 as well. It will be nice for a change of pace to just be able to jump in to any event going on and be a part of a larger group. But unless you are with friends or in a guild, there wont' be much interaction. And you won't be doing much of the dungeons either.
That is why my main will be TOR and the possibility of the grouping all through the leveling process. With the flashpoints and world group quests. It is more likey you will be involved with others and form bonds with those you play with on a daily basis. Having to interact to get through the group content. Ofc in todays day and age of teamspeak and ventrillo. It may not happen even in TOR. You may just get ignored while looking for a PUG. But I am hopefull that will not be the case.
Yup I pretty much agree with this. I think that in both games forming bonds will be up to the player. They both offer opportunities to group and actually communicate with other players.
For me though, I usually don't have the time to committ to a group without having the possibility of being called away any minute . So I'm happy to do dynamic events to get that "MMO feel" even if I'm not socializing and forming any bonds with players.
On the odd occasion that I can commit a few hours though, I may actually want to do dungeons.
Comments
.... no one has played the game from start to finish.... and nobody will until launch..... so... basically.. . . . you don't take stock in what anyone says?
Not even any of the games developers!? Boy that could cause some problems.
"Hey hows the end game content looking Ted?"
"How I should I know, I thought Bob was working on that."
"Hey Bob, hows that end game content coming?"
"What end game content? No one ever said anything to me about end game content."
"So has anyone been working on end game content? No!? The game goes live in less than two months!!!! WTF have you guys been doing!?"
"Well I've just been loading jawas up with rocket launchers this whole time."
"BLEEP you, Bob."
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Potapithikos you need to take a few steps back and realize something. Forums are where the vocal minority post about things they feel are wrong or right with something. Usually if someone is extensively looking at something like SWTOR and badmouthing it without much, if any --credibility it is to serve an alterior motive. The motive here is obviously to encourage people that SWTOR is a bad game. The other idea is that you follow the game because it scares you into thinking it may take something away from the game you currently play.
Maybe you just come here to badmouth the game because you don't believe into all the hype, but the fact that you are even paying attention shows otherwise. I have been following Maverick's posts for a while now and although I do believe he is in the "SWTOR Boat" if you will, he has never really sided with it as some kind of fanboi. The information he posts is always in regards to the feedback from people who have actually played the game.
You could argue what is and is not an MMORPG all day long, but there are several facts here. The game will have flashpoints,warzones, operations, and group quests. All of that which will have anywhere between 2 and 24 people in them. So there will be multiplayer. The game world is huge and they have demonstrated this several times, (or atleast by comparison, big as or bigger then current MMORPGs) so it is massive. The game consists of the usual leveling,character customization, and item farmfest as other RPGs. So it has roleplaying. It is online..not really an explanation needed here. It is a game, obviously. So take all these into consideration and flip the order I put them in around a bit and what do you get? An MMORPG.
You seem quite confident of your deduction skills that game is going to suck. So forgive me if it is hard to take your opinion merely as an opinion. Also your opinion is based on hersay and what you have read or seen not what you experinced first hands. And even if want to arrive at a conclusion on basis of all info avilable on internet, it would be fairly positive. But atleast i am not trying to shove that down everyone's throat now am i?
It is always interesting to read what the demo players say but I wouldn't decide to buy or not buy a game based on what hey say, no.
With a game like TOR I expect to get a free weekend or a free trial before buying it, just like I expect from any other P2P game. B2P games I just get, mostly because support their payment method but also because I kbnow what playing them actually cost.
With games like TOR I read up on the forum but it is still the trial that makes or breaks the game for me. If nothing else it will keep me from comming here and whine about a game I preordered that was unplayable.
You think this is funny? Because the sad thing is that this is true in a lot of cases. I'm intimately familiar with this as I've been playing EQ2 for over 7 years now. There are tons of examples of this. I mean, they launched 5 new zones recently in which the mobs were doing DOUBLE the intended damage. No one knew. I mean how do you not notice that as a developer? I mean, if you play it at least once and you parse, you'd know. Which says..they didn't play it - EVER. It wasn't an occassional bug or anything, it was the entire zone was set to double-attack or somesuch.
So yeah, your post was obviously meant to be humorous, but it's entirely possible and even probable that the DEVs have never touched their own game (at worst) or that they didn't do as much testing as necessary (at best).
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
There's often 50 to 200 people working on an MMORPG. I'm pretty sure that all those devs won't have tested and played every single aspect of an MMORPG, it's more likely that each is more familiar with only parts of the whole MMORPG, and that there are maybe only some who have gone through the whole MMORPG. We're talking about hundreds to thousands of hours, and that's only for one run-through of everything.
For extensive, iterative testing of every aspect you'll have your QA testing department. At least, that's how it works with a lot of large scale software development projects where dozens to hundreds of people are involved.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yes I do think its funny. Bollocks bouncingly funny. Especially when it actually turns out to be true as in the case of totally shyte quality control companies like SOE. I feel you are deluding yourself if you think that those kind of obvious and glaring errors happen because nobody from the company played the game. The fact is, is that some companies such as SOE just flat out do not care, (SOE haven't cared since about the third EQ 1 expansion.) This has been an issue with video games since long before MMOs even existed. Some companies worry most about game quality and spend the extra time and money going over the game with a fine toothed comb before release. Others worry only about deadlines and profit margins so get the product out the door as fast as possble and damn the consequences. I'm pretty certain, though I admit DAO2 did plant a tiny seed of doubt, that Bioware is one of the former kinds of companies and not one of the latter.
And when it comes to companies of the latter sort, such as SOE, who have a incredibly long track record of this behavior, yet mysteriously still get people to buy their games and expansions, I don't feel one bit sorry for anyone involved as they should have known better.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Oh i don't think that nobody from the company plays the game. I DO think that no one from the company went in an properly parsed out the dungeons (or majority of the other content) versus any kinds of standards.
I also think people are deluding themselves thinking that Blizzard or BioWare or EA or any other of the "massive" companies are any different in terms of treating their customers or looking after their games.
Smaller companies such as CCP and Icarus (Fallen Earth) tend to be better. Not that any company is perfect (see the recent CCP mess) but at leas they tend to communicate more openly. I also have a bit of a bias towards funcom as i've found their developers actually respond to community questions with their own opinions than with marketing-speak (at least they did on AO and AoC) but they're getting pretty big now, so it's only a matter of time before they get as bad as BioWare.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
well testers are supposedly getting the opportunity to. at E3 it was mentioned the the game is completely put together on one server. can't find the daniel erickson interview where talked about it abit more. but found the james ohlen one where he mentions that they have a contest going in the office to see who can reach cap first
edit: had forgotten to add the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rKf3zrCQ7I&feature=player_detailpage#t=86s
'as bad as Bioware'?
Sorry, don't agree with you there, they're pretty open and fair in what they talk about, and yes, I prefer their style above the one that Funcom reps as Gaute or those Warhammer guys used, which was a lot of testosterone filled talk about visions and features that didn't even make it ingame
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Arguments about SWTOR not being an MMO fall short on one point of their argument - that raids aren't in at level 1. There is literally NO MMO with raids at level 1.
Arguments about raiding at level 50 being limited to 20 people are also pretty baseless. I'd say most of WOW's raiding content was not 40-man raids. Most was 10-15 people (if you discount the leveling instances, which required 5 people - in this case, 80% of content in WOW was really 5-man oriented and this really kills the argument). So, by this argument, WoW is not an MMO. Which is just plain silly.
So the point of contention appears to be 1 player difference (if they think WOW is an MMO - which is a big supposition) in leveling content. Umm... what? One player makes it not massive? *scratch head*
Massively as an adjective is subjective. However, a multiplayer game is usually comprised of 2-8 people, perhaps 12 in FPS, but in most RPGs, it tends to be 4-6 players. You can be in a zone with (per what I've seen in videos) hundreds of players at a time in TOR, perhaps thousands if some sort of server event occurs. Hence, Massively applies (say, even at 100 players, which will be pretty low on Tython at release). Each area will have 10X the amount of people (that you can /tell, chat with, etc.) than an average multiplayer/co-op game.
As far as people following on games they hate, some people have to amuse themselves somehow. They probably get some sort of perverse joy out of antagonizing people who are finding something fun, enjoyable and want to "pull the rug out" from anyone who is happy or excited.
I've seen this on a number of different forums, but here it tends to be much higher, which sort of limits my posting here, because flat-out, some people want to just piss you off, and get their chuckle and jollies out of making people upset and unhappy.
Hence the term "troll". They make many statements about how their argument is completely valid and true (in their point of view) and how they have every right to post their opinion, because it is true. From their point of view. This is logic that can't really be faulted. I can think that all (insert race) here are lazy, and it would be true... from a certain point of view. Try as you might with every bit of documentation you wish, you can't really change their viewpoint, and thus, this discussion never ends.
Suggestion: End the discussion yourself, block the user. He won't have useful input here, and likely, anywhere else. I'd be willing to bet that if you tracked him somehow across multiple forums, you'd see a pretty nasty picture, overall - and not a person you'd talk to IRL.
Testers likely are getting to play through the entirety of content... (well, most of it anyways) but I don't think there will be too many that play the game from start to finish, and then go on to write a comprehensive review about their time in beta afterwards.
I would imagine at this point we'd see a lot of focus testing in the areas that matter, and various playtesting, but I would think in a game as large as SWTOR, even after cap, there will be more than enough things to do where you wouldn't consider yourself to be "finished" with the game.
ah i see. i misunderstood.
I actually missed some of that interview. Some nice info James talkes about.
-Can play the game from 1 to 50 currently and yes, there is a contest with rewards to reach level 50 first.
-Warzones are being tested up to and at level 50
-All the social aspects are in the game and being tested. Guilds, Friends list, chat, and AH. Said that the AH on Coruscant is up and running with players posting and buying items.
-Elder game is currently being tested and polished. He said some of the features in at level 50 are 3 warzones, flashpoints, raids and an entire elder game planet for repeatable game play. And yes, flashpoints and raids were plural. Doesn't mean there are more than one, but it could mean that.
-Things they are looking to put in at or after launch are guild ships, refining chat and communication with the game outside of the game.
So it does sound like elder game testing and polishing is in the works now. And everything in the game looks to be tested at least by the devs and family memebers. Not sure about the public testers, but I wouldn't be suprised if they could test to 50 as well.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Something i don't understand about the game and haven't seen cleared up, or i just missed it.
I played wow for years, and having played the other Warcraft games, especially with all the changes in Cata, i was legit interested in the lore.
But it took too long to read questsand watch movies as i rushed to raid, and when questing with friends they didn't want to wait while i read quest text. I would go back later in my own time, level an alt from 1-85, experience the zones and the lore at my own pace and enjoy it hat way.
Now, everything i read about ToR is people stressing that this is in fact an mmo, but it has MORE story and actual voice acting, how exciting!
Can this stuff be soloed though? I plan on taking a more leisurely way through ToR when it comes out,a nd i don't particularly want to be rushed by group members who want to move forward.
that contest is solely an in house thing among the devs. georg zoeller commented recently that they had no plans for server first for first to cap reward.
GeorgZoeller
Joined: May 2010
06.28.2011 , 01:39 PM
I don't think we have talked about this topic at all, so this thread is based on a guess, I suppose.
I don't see us rewarding people for rushing through the story either.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7081254#post7081254
There will be a lot that can be soloed for the most part from what I understand.
The class quest arc is aimed at a solo experience from 1 to 50. It is your characters personal story. It can be played in a group up to 4 players. But only the main character, your character, can make dialogue choices.
Open world quests can be played solo as well. They are not part of your story, but your choices in your class arc will effect how these NPC's react to you. These can also be played in a group up to 4. And while in group, you will be in the multi-dialogue with a roll for what choice is made.
The side game of space combat missions is a solo experience only at launch.
From the video above, there will be a level 50 planet. Some of that would probably be solo.
What will not be solo, at least at your characters level, are heroic areas, flashpoints (dungeons), world group quest chains and raids. It was said that you could out level some of the content and go back to do them solo. But the higher in level you get, the more difficult that would be.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
they have said you can solo to cap and that you can do your personal class story completely solo(you can group and do it too, but it can also be soloed). however you will miss content if you only solo. there are group(heroic) quests and world arcs that they said are deigned to be done in groups(although we recently learned about a world arc boss instance that scales depending on how many people enter it, so we will need to see how that works). plus flashpoints would need a group although you could always find someone to just group up with and run those on your main if you wanted
I meant to agree with the quote of in office, I should have put that in my post. Thanks for catching that. Always keeping me honest.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Yeah CCP know their customer base so well they just had a riot on their hands. Plus they were forced to communicate when that idiot let out an internal company email, plus they are developing their big side project connected to their successful PC game at the console industry. I'm not sure CCP is doing the wonderful job you think they are doing. But then again I'm not entirely sure they aren't either. We will have to see how both the monocle fiasco and Dust 514 shake out before we should actually judge them. Which I would recommend people do with most companies, such as Bioware**. Sadly though it seems some people only judge them on how successful they are. Its an attitude very similar to fans of fledgling music acts that start yelling "sell out" the minute their own private precious band starts getting attention from people they don't consider to be part of the in crowd.
**Though not SOE as they have done this silly crap way too many times to have any integrity left. SOEs motto should be "You Can't Fix Stupid."
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Well said.
I think this is what divides a lot of the pro-SWTOR and pro-GW2 crowd.
I fall on the side of not enjoying the MMO feel of current themepark MMORPGs. In fact, I play nearly all of them as single player games, unless the game forces me to do otherwise. It's just more convenient, I don't like having to "actively" look for a group in order to play with other people.
That's one of the reasons why I'm more attracted to the dynamic events in GW2 over the more traditional questing/instances in SWTOR. Because you walk into an event and BAM you're playing with other players trying to reach a common goal, no legwork required. It just makes the world feel more "alive" to me.
That said, I realize this is just my opinion. I'm sure others are perfectly fine with the more "active" approach to grouping required by the current themepark MMORPGs. But I think looking at our differences this way could help us understand why we gravitate to different games.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
One simple question.....what's the point to all this???
That is the same reason I will be playing GW2 as well. It will be nice for a change of pace to just be able to jump in to any event going on and be a part of a larger group. But unless you are with friends or in a guild, there wont' be much interaction. And you won't be doing much of the dungeons either.
That is why my main will be TOR and the possibility of the grouping all through the leveling process. With the flashpoints and world group quests. It is more likey you will be involved with others and form bonds with those you play with on a daily basis. Having to interact to get through the group content. Ofc in todays day and age of teamspeak and ventrillo. It may not happen even in TOR. You may just get ignored while looking for a PUG. But I am hopefull that will not be the case.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Yup I pretty much agree with this. I think that in both games forming bonds will be up to the player. They both offer opportunities to group and actually communicate with other players.
For me though, I usually don't have the time to committ to a group without having the possibility of being called away any minute
. So I'm happy to do dynamic events to get that "MMO feel" even if I'm not socializing and forming any bonds with players.
On the odd occasion that I can commit a few hours though, I may actually want to do dungeons.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?