We can talk about how SV deserve a break because they're small, trying novel ideas, no money, etc etc until the cows come home. That is for every person to decide themselves how they feel about it.
What are you getting for your AAA priced subscription? Are you getting an AAA experience? Is your money well-spent? Pretty obvious and case-closed really.
What is a AAA experience? Speaking only for myself, I am getting my money's worth with MO, in that I am playing the type of game that I prefer (fantasy sandbox MMORPG), and really enjoying it.
What type of experiences are the AAA games offering? And, when you say "AAA", do you mean like the AoC type of AAA (trainwreck at launch turned mediocre F2P WoW-clone with boobs)? The WAR type of AAA? STO? FFXIV? DCUO? Is that the type of AAA "excellence" being touted here? LOL. Seems that MO is pretty much on par with most recent AAA offerings, with the exception being that it's not providing yet another clone-like themepark experience. It's actually doing something different.
Regarding AAAs, which AAA fantasy sandbox MMORPG should we be playing right now, if that's the type of game one prefers?
An AAA experience in this MMO climate is having a MMO to play that isn't riddled with dupes and cheats, where one patch doesn't consistently break features, where the server isn't going up and down like a yoyo a year after release, where developers aren't "stealth" unbanning known cheaters and hackers just to get a few extra $$$ in subs, where Dev-hosted Events aren't on par with the MUD PBEM (play by email for you kiddies) games late 80's, where you can't just go and unpack the entire game-client and modify it to your liking without getting permabanned, where fans dont build official game launchers, where there is actual content to play with besides Arena Deathmatch, where there is more gear variety then 2-3 viable armor & weapon combinations for PVP and 1-2 viable race combinations, where GM's aren't sabotaging territory warfare because it might cause players to quit, where GM's aren't caving in to threats of 30-40 accounts unsubscribing when they blatantly hack the game to destroy houses, where in-game currency isn't duped left right and centre, and the list goes on...
Btw I still have some 360,000 gold banked somewhere.
Please name a AAA title currently on the market. I'd love to see a game that's never had dupes, cheats, buggy patches, or any other problems you've mentioned.
We can talk about how SV deserve a break because they're small, trying novel ideas, no money, etc etc until the cows come home. That is for every person to decide themselves how they feel about it.
What are you getting for your AAA priced subscription? Are you getting an AAA experience? Is your money well-spent? Pretty obvious and case-closed really.
What is a AAA experience? Speaking only for myself, I am getting my money's worth with MO, in that I am playing the type of game that I prefer (fantasy sandbox MMORPG), and really enjoying it.
What type of experiences are the AAA games offering? And, when you say "AAA", do you mean like the AoC type of AAA (trainwreck at launch turned mediocre F2P WoW-clone with boobs)? The WAR type of AAA? STO? FFXIV? DCUO? Is that the type of AAA "excellence" being touted here? LOL. Seems that MO is pretty much on par with most recent AAA offerings, with the exception being that it's not providing yet another clone-like themepark experience. It's actually doing something different.
I don't think there is any need to try and play on the words he used. You know fully well what he meant by AAA experince, wow clone or not. Probably stable game, without vanishing game areas, people hitting eachother from miles away, flying pigs, and features getting turned off every patch since they break the game. Whether MO is fun or not for you as individual, it does not provide as smooth experince as majority of AAA titles out there.
What play on words? Summoning the misplaced spectre of the "AAA" moniker should be met with just as much criticism as the invocation of the indie clause, in my opinion. Besides, it appears that exaggeration (people hitting each other from miles away) and deception (features tuned off every patch, flying pigs being a problem since beta) are commonly in use here.
Name a AAA game or game company, and I can show you significant numbers of people who hate it, and who obsessively stalk it on every forum that will have them, attempting to convince others that it's not just bad, but evil.
Yes, that includes the AAAs, which, to a game, have been declared "epic fail" by some disenfranchised subset of the MMO community. It funny how memories, and arguments, become selective when engaging in perception management by comparison.
My memory isn't so fuzzy or convenient. As an example, I recall AoC's massive memory leaks, causing constant crashing for months. I remember keep sieges so broken they turned them off, unplayably bugged raid bosses, broken quests and crafting systems (yeti bile, anyone?), the PvP level system missing at launch, significant mail, bank, auction house, and inventory problems, general bugs galore, Anarchy Online tooltips, foolishly imbalanced classes, ridiculously instanced world design, useless city building, borked grouping mechanics, overall lack of content, and zero economy because of the lack of BoE/BoP. The list goes on. And this from a supposed AAA company publishing its second MMO, after a year and a half of delays.
Similar, supposedly game-breaking issues can be raised with not just indies like MO, but also with the AAAs like DCUO, FFXIV, CO, STO, Vanguard, and WAR - each had their own significant demons. Games like Aion lost most of its Western playerbase due to a number of issues, while others like Global Agenda had to pull an emergency shift to F2P given its shortcomings. Hell, Auto Assault, Tabula Rasa, and APB all actually died from their mismanagement.
As far as I'm concerned, the "AAA" title is absolutely meaningless, and has not been a guarantee of quality. In fact, the opposite has been true much more often than not.
Combine that with the fact that the vast majority of AAA games have been themepark clones, and there's not a lot of interest for those that prefer sandbox games.
I play Mortal Online because I like the sandbox gameplay it offers. It is not perfect - it has bugs, an ugly UI, and needs more content. Given recent history, however, the majority of AAA games haven't done much if any better, and only offer themepark-style play on top of it.
I'm getting my money's worth from MO.
^
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this thread sure gave me a few kicks of laughter, the one with henriks dad was the best.
half of you know nothing, it took henrik years to find the investors for mortal online, he does abit of everything within the team, and they are a swedish group that hired only 2 interns before, they are losing money, so they had to make cuts, i guess they was like you can leave now or you can tank it out.
the fact that they are losing money and still giving it their all, deserves respect.
you say they are inexperinced people who can't do this and that, but yet i don't see any of the experinced world class programmers doing something as risky as this, its always those niche groups like the minecraft dudes, the eve dudes and even the new 2d minecraft terrira something was made by people.
so they mess up, you want them to give up their vision of the game they created, they thought up to someone else? this game isn't MO without SV team, cause face it.
I respect them for trying to and still achieve their dev vision even when its harder to do these certain complex features then actually just putting in the "second best idea"
the game never released gold, money has always been an issue, that guy that said something about henrik dad being the dude who keeping sv alive, doesn't know anything, henrik told me himself how sv came around.
whats the problem with trying to achieve something? its their project, not someone elses, its not like they was handed it, its not like they are some bioware company that doing some lord of the rings title.
no they made up a whole new project by themselves, its theirs and no one elses, just leave them alone and let them do what htey enjoy most, creating a game in their vision.
i bet another company oculd take this title, and make it more profitable as a business, but then i also bet the game will go in a different direction to suit the masses....
I have no problem them TRYING to, but they can't even try, they fail everywhere. Its getting disgusting.
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We can talk about how SV deserve a break because they're small, trying novel ideas, no money, etc etc until the cows come home. That is for every person to decide themselves how they feel about it.
What are you getting for your AAA priced subscription? Are you getting an AAA experience? Is your money well-spent? Pretty obvious and case-closed really.
What is a AAA experience? Speaking only for myself, I am getting my money's worth with MO, in that I am playing the type of game that I prefer (fantasy sandbox MMORPG), and really enjoying it.
What type of experiences are the AAA games offering? And, when you say "AAA", do you mean like the AoC type of AAA (trainwreck at launch turned mediocre F2P WoW-clone with boobs)? The WAR type of AAA? STO? FFXIV? DCUO? Is that the type of AAA "excellence" being touted here? LOL. Seems that MO is pretty much on par with most recent AAA offerings, with the exception being that it's not providing yet another clone-like themepark experience. It's actually doing something different.
Regarding AAAs, which AAA fantasy sandbox MMORPG should we be playing right now, if that's the type of game one prefers?
An AAA experience in this MMO climate is having a MMO to play that isn't riddled with dupes and cheats, where one patch doesn't consistently break features, where the server isn't going up and down like a yoyo a year after release, where developers aren't "stealth" unbanning known cheaters and hackers just to get a few extra $$$ in subs, where Dev-hosted Events aren't on par with the MUD PBEM (play by email for you kiddies) games late 80's, where you can't just go and unpack the entire game-client and modify it to your liking without getting permabanned, where fans dont build official game launchers, where there is actual content to play with besides Arena Deathmatch, where there is more gear variety then 2-3 viable armor & weapon combinations for PVP and 1-2 viable race combinations, where GM's aren't sabotaging territory warfare because it might cause players to quit, where GM's aren't caving in to threats of 30-40 accounts unsubscribing when they blatantly hack the game to destroy houses, where in-game currency isn't duped left right and centre, and the list goes on...
Btw I still have some 360,000 gold banked somewhere.
Please name a AAA title currently on the market. I'd love to see a game that's never had dupes, cheats, buggy patches, or any other problems you've mentioned.
I will agree with you that games do have cheats and dupes. But you and I both know every MO patch rolls out dupes cheats exploits and a new broken weapon to pwn people with. The new one is the wacky stick if you did not know. Now you name me a AAA game that introduces multiple cheats, dupes, exploits and new FOTMS every [atch and not jusy content patches I am talking EVERY patch.
We can talk about how SV deserve a break because they're small, trying novel ideas, no money, etc etc until the cows come home. That is for every person to decide themselves how they feel about it.
What are you getting for your AAA priced subscription? Are you getting an AAA experience? Is your money well-spent? Pretty obvious and case-closed really.
What is a AAA experience? Speaking only for myself, I am getting my money's worth with MO, in that I am playing the type of game that I prefer (fantasy sandbox MMORPG), and really enjoying it.
What type of experiences are the AAA games offering? And, when you say "AAA", do you mean like the AoC type of AAA (trainwreck at launch turned mediocre F2P WoW-clone with boobs)? The WAR type of AAA? STO? FFXIV? DCUO? Is that the type of AAA "excellence" being touted here? LOL. Seems that MO is pretty much on par with most recent AAA offerings, with the exception being that it's not providing yet another clone-like themepark experience. It's actually doing something different.
Regarding AAAs, which AAA fantasy sandbox MMORPG should we be playing right now, if that's the type of game one prefers?
An AAA experience in this MMO climate is having a MMO to play that isn't riddled with dupes and cheats, where one patch doesn't consistently break features, where the server isn't going up and down like a yoyo a year after release, where developers aren't "stealth" unbanning known cheaters and hackers just to get a few extra $$$ in subs, where Dev-hosted Events aren't on par with the MUD PBEM (play by email for you kiddies) games late 80's, where you can't just go and unpack the entire game-client and modify it to your liking without getting permabanned, where fans dont build official game launchers, where there is actual content to play with besides Arena Deathmatch, where there is more gear variety then 2-3 viable armor & weapon combinations for PVP and 1-2 viable race combinations, where GM's aren't sabotaging territory warfare because it might cause players to quit, where GM's aren't caving in to threats of 30-40 accounts unsubscribing when they blatantly hack the game to destroy houses, where in-game currency isn't duped left right and centre, and the list goes on...
Btw I still have some 360,000 gold banked somewhere.
Please name a AAA title currently on the market. I'd love to see a game that's never had dupes, cheats, buggy patches, or any other problems you've mentioned.
I will agree with you that games do have cheats and dupes. But you and I both know every MO patch rolls out dupes cheats exploits and a new broken weapon to pwn people with. The new one is the wacky stick if you did not know. Now you name me a AAA game that introduces multiple cheats, dupes, exploits and new FOTMS every [atch and not jusy content patches I am talking EVERY patch.
Yeah, SV breaks a hell of a lot with their patches, but henrik did say that he would think about selling MO so heres to hoping.
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Originally posted by Killswitch34 I love MO, let me put that out there right now. I've played for a couple months now and I enjoy my time playing, mostly. I just can not handle SV anymore. They have to be the WORST company ever. The "patches" they have break more things in the game then they fix, the GMs in the game are a complete joke and the support on site is even worse. Just recently I was mailing 100 gold to my other character, It got lost in the mail, my other character never recieved it. I talk to support, what do they do? Naw, sorry we can't refund your gold. No reason what so ever and I get no email back. Cool eh? I love MO but SV seriously needs to go, they need to sell MO to some other company if at all possible.
The thing is though Killswitch the mail you talk about was not bugged at all. You thought that you could send mail to character in other towns where as the post only works for transfer within the same city.
We can talk about how SV deserve a break because they're small, trying novel ideas, no money, etc etc until the cows come home. That is for every person to decide themselves how they feel about it.
What are you getting for your AAA priced subscription? Are you getting an AAA experience? Is your money well-spent? Pretty obvious and case-closed really.
What is a AAA experience? Speaking only for myself, I am getting my money's worth with MO, in that I am playing the type of game that I prefer (fantasy sandbox MMORPG), and really enjoying it.
What type of experiences are the AAA games offering? And, when you say "AAA", do you mean like the AoC type of AAA (trainwreck at launch turned mediocre F2P WoW-clone with boobs)? The WAR type of AAA? STO? FFXIV? DCUO? Is that the type of AAA "excellence" being touted here? LOL. Seems that MO is pretty much on par with most recent AAA offerings, with the exception being that it's not providing yet another clone-like themepark experience. It's actually doing something different.
I don't think there is any need to try and play on the words he used. You know fully well what he meant by AAA experince, wow clone or not. Probably stable game, without vanishing game areas, people hitting eachother from miles away, flying pigs, and features getting turned off every patch since they break the game. Whether MO is fun or not for you as individual, it does not provide as smooth experince as majority of AAA titles out there.
What play on words? Summoning the misplaced spectre of the "AAA" moniker should be met with just as much criticism as the invocation of the indie clause, in my opinion. Besides, it appears that exaggeration (people hitting each other from miles away) and deception (features tuned off every patch, flying pigs being a problem since beta) are commonly in use here.
Name a AAA game or game company, and I can show you significant numbers of people who hate it, and who obsessively stalk it on every forum that will have them, attempting to convince others that it's not just bad, but evil.
Yes, that includes the AAAs, which, to a game, have been declared "epic fail" by some disenfranchised subset of the MMO community. It funny how memories, and arguments, become selective when engaging in perception management by comparison.
My memory isn't so fuzzy or convenient. As an example, I recall AoC's massive memory leaks, causing constant crashing for months. I remember keep sieges so broken they turned them off, unplayably bugged raid bosses, broken quests and crafting systems (yeti bile, anyone?), the PvP level system missing at launch, significant mail, bank, auction house, and inventory problems, general bugs galore, Anarchy Online tooltips, foolishly imbalanced classes, ridiculously instanced world design, useless city building, borked grouping mechanics, overall lack of content, and zero economy because of the lack of BoE/BoP. The list goes on. And this from a supposed AAA company publishing its second MMO, after a year and a half of delays.
Similar, supposedly game-breaking issues can be raised with not just indies like MO, but also with the AAAs like DCUO, FFXIV, CO, STO, Vanguard, and WAR - each had their own significant demons. Games like Aion lost most of its Western playerbase due to a number of issues, while others like Global Agenda had to pull an emergency shift to F2P given its shortcomings. Hell, Auto Assault, Tabula Rasa, and APB all actually died from their mismanagement.
As far as I'm concerned, the "AAA" title is absolutely meaningless, and has not been a guarantee of quality. In fact, the opposite has been true much more often than not.
Combine that with the fact that the vast majority of AAA games have been themepark clones, and there's not a lot of interest for those that prefer sandbox games.
I play Mortal Online because I like the sandbox gameplay it offers. It is not perfect - it has bugs, an ugly UI, and needs more content. Given recent history, however, the majority of AAA games haven't done much if any better, and only offer themepark-style play on top of it.
I'm getting my money's worth from MO.
In my books, frequient patches that dont break the game is quality. Sure, all mmos have their issues now and then, some are very severe (even wow had few which caused major serverwide panic), but none of them comes even close to how buggy and unstable MO is. You know fully well what I am talking about, and sure that people hitting eachother from miles away was exageration, but it is still valid, people hit eachother from further then intended, and prediction system is borked. They been forced to turn off feature almost every patch lately due to it making gme unstable etc etc.
You can defend the game all you want, and I wont deny it can provide some fun now and then, or for you as individual, but your nitpicking on specific games aside, MO is not even close to general AAA experince, period.
You can defend the game all you want, and I wont deny it can provide some fun now and then, or for you as individual, but your nitpicking on specific games aside, MO is not even close to general AAA experince, period.
Oh thank god, maybe you can list off a couple AAA titles that give such a experience, no one else seems to want to hazard any actual examples.
You can defend the game all you want, and I wont deny it can provide some fun now and then, or for you as individual, but your nitpicking on specific games aside, MO is not even close to general AAA experince, period.
Oh thank god, maybe you can list off a couple AAA titles that give such a experience, no one else seems to want to hazard any actual examples.
Of course they won't give examples because they know how easy it would be for people to go to the websites of their given examples and look at their support forums for contradicting information as well as go to certain cheat program websites and browse their forums talking about cheats in those games too.
You can defend the game all you want, and I wont deny it can provide some fun now and then, or for you as individual,
This is the point so often lost on this website. Through all the tactics of perception management, analyses of the stock market, poring over XFire numbers to extrapolate population numbers, and the like, it ultimately always comes down to this - What gameplay does a game offer? Is that gameplay fun to the individual playing it?
On metagaming sites like this, the error is in overemphasizing the groupthink of quasi-political blocs within the MMO community over where the rubber actually meets the road - enjoyment of a game at the individual level.
Too many people are interested in proving points and winning arguments - forum warfare has become the game, while the reason people play games has long since been forgotten.
The enjoyment of any game is at the individual level, not the hive-mind of "the community".
but your nitpicking on specific games aside,
The same "nitpicking" is what commonly goes on here about Mortal Online. There's no difference - it's nitpicking about a specific game. Exaggerations, semantics, intellectual dishonesty - making mountains from molehills daily, all according to personal agenda and taste.
A funny thing to consider: Segments of the "community" have proclaimed every game I originally listed as a catastrophic, evil failure. Yet, contrary to the conventional wisdom of that "community", there are people that love each of those games - play them everyday, enjoy them for what they do, enjoy the communities, etc. Oddly enough, this has been true since the first MMO, the difference now being the existence of a self-described "veteran" base.
MO is not even close to general AAA experince, period.
Indeed. MO is a fantasy sandbox MMORPG, which is not a style of gameplay found in the general AAA experience.
For all the posturing, it is gameplay, and how it appeals to each individual, that is now, and has always been, the most important aspect of enjoying a game.
That's why I enjoy playing MO, and enjoy playing it over the AAA offerings. I know it sounds crazy, but I believe people should play the games they enjoy, and probably not play the ones they don't. A game doesn't hurt my feelings if I don't like it - it just means it doesn't appeal to me.
You can defend the game all you want, and I wont deny it can provide some fun now and then, or for you as individual, but your nitpicking on specific games aside, MO is not even close to general AAA experince, period.
Oh thank god, maybe you can list off a couple AAA titles that give such a experience, no one else seems to want to hazard any actual examples.
Hmm.. let's start with basic building block #1. Delivering the actual release (gold) Discs to the customer.
Some AAA Titles that have done so: WoW, EQ2, SWG, UO, RiFT, WAR, Tabula Rasa, AoC,DAoC, EQ, DCU, AC.... hmm.. come to think of it. Every single one...
There are only two games that I have ever heard of that never shipped their gold CDs to customers that bought them: Dark & Light and Mortal Online. Now, that may not be a comprehensive list, but those are the only two that come to mind.
And to me... actually delivering what the customer paid for is kind of important. I understand that recently they actually made the patcher recognise the EARLY BETA (Jan 2010) disc and download the entire game via the patcher, but that is simply using the CD as a digital copy of the game. SV sold boxed copied of the game WITH discs.. and WITH "All pre-release updates FREELY SHIPPED ON DISC". To date (release +1 year) they have not done this. They also promised to ship updated "gold" discs out to the customers "at release"... but it's now +1 year from release and no such "gold discs" have been shipped... Not only have they not shipped but the only official word we had on the matter was that they "were too busy" to get to it.. and that post by the community manager was later deleted, once again leaving just silence.
So... yeah.. I would start right there when discussing the difference between Mortal Online (SV) and a AAA title.. We can certainly go on from there if folks want to continue the discussion...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You can defend the game all you want, and I wont deny it can provide some fun now and then, or for you as individual, but your nitpicking on specific games aside, MO is not even close to general AAA experince, period.
There are only two games that I have ever heard of that never shipped their gold CDs to customers that bought them: Dark & Light and Mortal Online. Now, that may not be a comprehensive list, but those are the only two that come to mind.
If I remember right Mourning shipped cdrs with outdated/broken game files on them also. Just throwing that out there since MO reminds me of Mourning in so many ways.
You can defend the game all you want, and I wont deny it can provide some fun now and then, or for you as individual, but your nitpicking on specific games aside, MO is not even close to general AAA experince, period.
Oh thank god, maybe you can list off a couple AAA titles that give such a experience, no one else seems to want to hazard any actual examples.
Hmm.. let's start with basic building block #1. Delivering the actual release (gold) Discs to the customer.
Some AAA Titles that have done so: WoW, EQ2, SWG, UO, RiFT, WAR, Tabula Rasa, AoC,DAoC, EQ, DCU, AC.... hmm.. come to think of it. Every single one...
There are only two games that I have ever heard of that never shipped their gold CDs to customers that bought them: Dark & Light and Mortal Online. Now, that may not be a comprehensive list, but those are the only two that come to mind.
And to me... actually delivering what the customer paid for is kind of important. I understand that recently they actually made the patcher recognise the EARLY BETA (Jan 2010) disc and download the entire game via the patcher, but that is simply using the CD as a digital copy of the game. SV sold boxed copied of the game WITH discs.. and WITH "All pre-release updates FREELY SHIPPED ON DISC". To date (release +1 year) they have not done this. They also promised to ship updated "gold" discs out to the customers "at release"... but it's now +1 year from release and no such "gold discs" have been shipped... Not only have they not shipped but the only official word we had on the matter was that they "were too busy" to get to it.. and that post by the community manager was later deleted, once again leaving just silence.
So... yeah.. I would start right there when discussing the difference between Mortal Online (SV) and a AAA title.. We can certainly go on from there if folks want to continue the discussion...
Ummm so your argument of what a AAA experience is.....getting the preorder game discs in the mailbox?
Ummm so your argument of what a AAA experience is.....getting the preorder game discs in the mailbox?
As I said.. that would be building block #1... yes.. actually sending the release discs one year after release.. yup that would kind of be important to me. We can certainly look at some other items though if you really want to go down that path...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Some AAA Titles that have done so: WoW, EQ2, SWG, UO, RiFT, WAR, Tabula Rasa, AoC,DAoC, EQ, DCU, AC.... hmm.. come to think of it. Every single one...
There are only two games that I have ever heard of that never shipped their gold CDs to customers that bought them: Dark & Light and Mortal Online. Now, that may not be a comprehensive list, but those are the only two that come to mind.
And to me... actually delivering what the customer paid for is kind of important. I understand that recently they actually made the patcher recognise the EARLY BETA (Jan 2010) disc and download the entire game via the patcher, but that is simply using the CD as a digital copy of the game. SV sold boxed copied of the game WITH discs.. and WITH "All pre-release updates FREELY SHIPPED ON DISC". To date (release +1 year) they have not done this. They also promised to ship updated "gold" discs out to the customers "at release"... but it's now +1 year from release and no such "gold discs" have been shipped... Not only have they not shipped but the only official word we had on the matter was that they "were too busy" to get to it.. and that post by the community manager was later deleted, once again leaving just silence.
So... yeah.. I would start right there when discussing the difference between Mortal Online (SV) and a AAA title.. We can certainly go on from there if folks want to continue the discussion...
You still buy games on CD? Via mail order? I hate to break this to you, but the year is 2011, not 2001.
Try a digital download next time, takes about an hour to download and install the full game + patches. Then you can report on how inferior MO's sandbox design is to all the AAA fpv, non-instanced, twitch-based, ffa/full loot pvp titles on the market.
OnT: I have been dismayed by SV's lack of competence too, but at least they had the balls to try and make a game like this, with very small resources, and that deserves respect. Besides, SV is Mortal Online. If some big company bought MO (which I doubt will ever happen) it would surely change into something smooth-looking, but much more conventional and boring - just like all games from big publishers.
You can defend the game all you want, and I wont deny it can provide some fun now and then, or for you as individual, but your nitpicking on specific games aside, MO is not even close to general AAA experince, period.
Oh thank god, maybe you can list off a couple AAA titles that give such a experience, no one else seems to want to hazard any actual examples.
Ok, let's take a shot here, something recent since MO is... Rift. Go on, find me game breaking bugs and game breaking patches feature in that. Let's see if their server goes down every now and then, if they have borked prediction system or if they are forced to shut down game features (chests, mounts, doors?) in order to get game functional.
Personal preferences for sandbox or themepark aside, there you go.
Originally posted by ltank
Of course they won't give examples because they know how easy it would be for people to go to the websites of their given examples and look at their support forums for contradicting information as well as go to certain cheat program websites and browse their forums talking about cheats in those games too.
You too might want to join the witchhunt above. You two been rather loud about AAA titles having similar problems to MO, so please give me examples of Rift suffering from problems as severe and frequent as MO.
Originally posted by Rohn
Originally posted by Toferio
MO is not even close to general AAA experince, period.
Indeed. MO is a fantasy sandbox MMORPG, which is not a style of gameplay found in the general AAA experience.
For all the posturing, it is gameplay, and how it appeals to each individual, that is now, and has always been, the most important aspect of enjoying a game.
That's why I enjoy playing MO, and enjoy playing it over the AAA offerings. I know it sounds crazy, but I believe people should play the games they enjoy, and probably not play the ones they don't. A game doesn't hurt my feelings if I don't like it - it just means it doesn't appeal to me.
Shrug.. fair enough, everyone to its own. I am not really arguing about MO not being fun, but pointed out that it's quality in experince comes no where close to AAA products as some people here claimed. Can it be fun? -Sure. But is it close to AAA product quality level? -Not by miles.
Of course they won't give examples because they know how easy it would be for people to go to the websites of their given examples and look at their support forums for contradicting information as well as go to certain cheat program websites and browse their forums talking about cheats in those games too.
You too might want to join the witchhunt above. You two been rather loud about AAA titles having similar problems to MO, so please give me examples of Rift suffering from problems as severe and frequent as MO.
First off I don't know who you are talking to because I don't make those kinds of comparisons. Second, that's not the argument. It was implied that most AAA titles are nearly bug free and we beg to differ. You are trying to confuse the argument by now talking about how often bugs arise as opposed to if they happen at all.
I love when fanboys think it is ok not to receive soemthing you pay for. (the discs). I wonder fi they would go to any other business and let that happen. Oh yes sir here is your dinner. It is not the real dinner we will send you that shortly. And then they never send it. But it is ok.
You can defend the game all you want, and I wont deny it can provide some fun now and then, or for you as individual, but your nitpicking on specific games aside, MO is not even close to general AAA experince, period.
Oh thank god, maybe you can list off a couple AAA titles that give such a experience, no one else seems to want to hazard any actual examples.
Ok, let's take a shot here, something recent since MO is... Rift. Go on, find me game breaking bugs and game breaking patches feature in that. Let's see if their server goes down every now and then, if they have borked prediction system or if they are forced to shut down game features (chests, mounts, doors?) in order to get game functional.
Personal preferences for sandbox or themepark aside, there you go.
Since we've been talking about the general AAA experience, would you say that RIFT is the average AAA release compared to all the others from the last 5 or 6 years (i.e. Vanguard, AoC, WAR, CO, STO, Global Agenda, APB, FFXIV, Aion, Auto Assault, Hellgate, Tabula Rasa, DCUO, etc)?
You've listed some problems peculiar to MO, and asked if they occur in other games, as though those are the only possible problems than an MMO can have, while defining the problems that the other games have as "nitpicking". I can assure you that the critics of those other games feel that the shortcomings of those games are just as serious, and just as valid, as you believe MO's issues to be. If pointing out their shortcomings is nitpicking, then the same should be said of pointing out MO's shortcomings, if we are to be objective and fair about it. The specific problems can be different, and still valid for each different game.
Beyond that, when discussing the total AAA experience, I believe that encompasses not just the technical, but also things like design and innovation. Given that, they all have their own well publicized, much ballyhooed shortcomings, many of which MO does not share. To use your example, RIFT is probably the most clone-like game of all the WoW clones (while MO certainly is not). I'm not sure anyone at Trion has ever had an innovative thought in their lives, and if they have, RIFT provides no proof of it. Class balance was horrible to start, and is still a problem. Did we need another instance-laden game? Trion thinks so. Linear gameplay stemming from just two starting areas (one for each faction) is substandard for the genre. The same old, same old in trumped up faction based themepark PvP. A gear grind - what a surprise. Uninspired, run-of-the-mill crafting. An overall shortage in content at launch - a common shortfall for most MMOs. One need only venture over to the RIFT forum on this site to find the myriad of "valid" and serious criticisms of that game - criticisms that are just as valid as the ones found for MO, though the specific issues may be different. To many of the critics on this site, RIFT is considered a failure.
If the pinacle of the AAA experience is just more-of-the-same, uninspired game design theft, then RIFT has certainly met that standard. Unfortunately, in my opinion, the vast majority of other AAA titles have sadly fallen far short of even being able to be a good copy of other games, both in design and technical competence.
In any event, I prefer a fantasy sandbox game. RIFT does not provide such an experience, no matter its level of polish, and it never will. MO does provide that type of gameplay, which is more important in my view.
All the people and their theories as to why this game couldn't be picked up and to allow Starvault to continue developing it with more resources amuse me...
The prime example and latest would be GamersFirst purchasing Fallen Earth BUT allowing the original team to continue it's development with better resources and support. Why could Mortal Online not do this model? They'd have everything they need and GamersFirst would (as anyone who thinks a F2P microtransaction game is not profitable is insane) be making profit alongside StarVault.
All the people and their theories as to why this game couldn't be picked up and to allow Starvault to continue developing it with more resources amuse me...
The prime example and latest would be GamersFirst purchasing Fallen Earth BUT allowing the original team to continue it's development with better resources and support. Why could Mortal Online not do this model? They'd have everything they need and GamersFirst would (as anyone who thinks a F2P microtransaction game is not profitable is insane) be making profit alongside StarVault.
It's a win-win situation and it could be done.
Personally, I have nothing against F2P games, and know they can be profitable. I play a few of them from time to time.
I think that it would probably be pretty difficult to fit the vision for MO to a F2P model, however. Some games, by their design, fit that model better than others, and I don't think MO fits particularly well without a lot of modification that might severely undermine the vision for the game.
Ummm so your argument of what a AAA experience is.....getting the preorder game discs in the mailbox?
As I said.. that would be building block #1... yes.. actually sending the release discs one year after release.. yup that would kind of be important to me. We can certainly look at some other items though if you really want to go down that path...
All the people and their theories as to why this game couldn't be picked up and to allow Starvault to continue developing it with more resources amuse me...
The prime example and latest would be GamersFirst purchasing Fallen Earth BUT allowing the original team to continue it's development with better resources and support. Why could Mortal Online not do this model? They'd have everything they need and GamersFirst would (as anyone who thinks a F2P microtransaction game is not profitable is insane) be making profit alongside StarVault.
It's a win-win situation and it could be done.
Personally, I have nothing against F2P games, and know they can be profitable. I play a few of them from time to time.
I think that it would probably be pretty difficult to fit the vision for MO to a F2P model, however. Some games, by their design, fit that model better than others, and I don't think MO fits particularly well without a lot of modification that might severely undermine the vision for the game.
Indeed.. but what I have gathered from GamersFirst (I am no professional analyist or anything so this is my asusmption) they go based off minor things that will sell large quantities that at the same time do not effect the game for the masses. I'll use APB as an example.. although this game does fall under your category of easy to F2P...
Premium doesn't offer someone a chance of increased chance of victory, but gives them props that are on their side such as: increased XP. I guess you could say in the log run it could be damaging for free players but there needs to be a line between who's supporting the game and who's leeching.
In Mortal I could see something like...
Premium offers increased rates of reading, faster skill progression, and things of that nature but not to a effect of 100% increased, but around 10-20%.
Players could also possibly purchase copies of houses in which may just be set down complete. Someone might find this unfair, but they also still pose the risk of paying to lose a house... in which can bring in continued revenue with those who'd seek to purchase yet again what they lost.
Essentially all mechanics would still be the same, yet players who purchase goods would have something over another.. but nothing that the free player couldn't obtain his/herself or destroy of the player who has purchased. In this sense balance can be kept and revenue can continue to roll in.
Good choice going with RIFT: I was very impressed by their launch, their advertising was top-notch and EVERYWHERE, they have all their ducks in a row for sure. Here's a quick list of some youtube vids of rift bugs:
This list was compiled in about 3 minutes, and is all 'page 1' stuff. Is RIFT a bad game? No. Not my style, but it's a solid game. There's deep flaws in any game, let's stop pretending that MO is somehow alone in it's flaws.
Comments
This game !
mo is by far the worse for it tho
^
Karasu Linkshell for Final fantasy 14 now accepting all members! Just head on over to karasuls.shivtr.com and apply now! Linkshell info is on the site.
I have no problem them TRYING to, but they can't even try, they fail everywhere. Its getting disgusting.
Karasu Linkshell for Final fantasy 14 now accepting all members! Just head on over to karasuls.shivtr.com and apply now! Linkshell info is on the site.
I will agree with you that games do have cheats and dupes. But you and I both know every MO patch rolls out dupes cheats exploits and a new broken weapon to pwn people with. The new one is the wacky stick if you did not know. Now you name me a AAA game that introduces multiple cheats, dupes, exploits and new FOTMS every [atch and not jusy content patches I am talking EVERY patch.
Yeah, SV breaks a hell of a lot with their patches, but henrik did say that he would think about selling MO so heres to hoping.
Karasu Linkshell for Final fantasy 14 now accepting all members! Just head on over to karasuls.shivtr.com and apply now! Linkshell info is on the site.
The thing is though Killswitch the mail you talk about was not bugged at all. You thought that you could send mail to character in other towns where as the post only works for transfer within the same city.
Agreed the GMs are too few and far between.
In my books, frequient patches that dont break the game is quality. Sure, all mmos have their issues now and then, some are very severe (even wow had few which caused major serverwide panic), but none of them comes even close to how buggy and unstable MO is. You know fully well what I am talking about, and sure that people hitting eachother from miles away was exageration, but it is still valid, people hit eachother from further then intended, and prediction system is borked. They been forced to turn off feature almost every patch lately due to it making gme unstable etc etc.
You can defend the game all you want, and I wont deny it can provide some fun now and then, or for you as individual, but your nitpicking on specific games aside, MO is not even close to general AAA experince, period.
Oh thank god, maybe you can list off a couple AAA titles that give such a experience, no one else seems to want to hazard any actual examples.
Of course they won't give examples because they know how easy it would be for people to go to the websites of their given examples and look at their support forums for contradicting information as well as go to certain cheat program websites and browse their forums talking about cheats in those games too.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Hmm.. let's start with basic building block #1. Delivering the actual release (gold) Discs to the customer.
Some AAA Titles that have done so: WoW, EQ2, SWG, UO, RiFT, WAR, Tabula Rasa, AoC,DAoC, EQ, DCU, AC.... hmm.. come to think of it. Every single one...
There are only two games that I have ever heard of that never shipped their gold CDs to customers that bought them: Dark & Light and Mortal Online. Now, that may not be a comprehensive list, but those are the only two that come to mind.
And to me... actually delivering what the customer paid for is kind of important. I understand that recently they actually made the patcher recognise the EARLY BETA (Jan 2010) disc and download the entire game via the patcher, but that is simply using the CD as a digital copy of the game. SV sold boxed copied of the game WITH discs.. and WITH "All pre-release updates FREELY SHIPPED ON DISC". To date (release +1 year) they have not done this. They also promised to ship updated "gold" discs out to the customers "at release"... but it's now +1 year from release and no such "gold discs" have been shipped... Not only have they not shipped but the only official word we had on the matter was that they "were too busy" to get to it.. and that post by the community manager was later deleted, once again leaving just silence.
So... yeah.. I would start right there when discussing the difference between Mortal Online (SV) and a AAA title.. We can certainly go on from there if folks want to continue the discussion...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
[quote]Originally posted by Slapshot1188
[b]
If I remember right Mourning shipped cdrs with outdated/broken game files on them also. Just throwing that out there since MO reminds me of Mourning in so many ways.
Ummm so your argument of what a AAA experience is.....getting the preorder game discs in the mailbox?
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
As I said.. that would be building block #1... yes.. actually sending the release discs one year after release.. yup that would kind of be important to me. We can certainly look at some other items though if you really want to go down that path...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You still buy games on CD? Via mail order? I hate to break this to you, but the year is 2011, not 2001.
Try a digital download next time, takes about an hour to download and install the full game + patches. Then you can report on how inferior MO's sandbox design is to all the AAA fpv, non-instanced, twitch-based, ffa/full loot pvp titles on the market.
OnT: I have been dismayed by SV's lack of competence too, but at least they had the balls to try and make a game like this, with very small resources, and that deserves respect. Besides, SV is Mortal Online. If some big company bought MO (which I doubt will ever happen) it would surely change into something smooth-looking, but much more conventional and boring - just like all games from big publishers.
Ok, let's take a shot here, something recent since MO is... Rift. Go on, find me game breaking bugs and game breaking patches feature in that. Let's see if their server goes down every now and then, if they have borked prediction system or if they are forced to shut down game features (chests, mounts, doors?) in order to get game functional.
Personal preferences for sandbox or themepark aside, there you go.
You too might want to join the witchhunt above. You two been rather loud about AAA titles having similar problems to MO, so please give me examples of Rift suffering from problems as severe and frequent as MO.
Shrug.. fair enough, everyone to its own. I am not really arguing about MO not being fun, but pointed out that it's quality in experince comes no where close to AAA products as some people here claimed. Can it be fun? -Sure. But is it close to AAA product quality level? -Not by miles.
First off I don't know who you are talking to because I don't make those kinds of comparisons. Second, that's not the argument. It was implied that most AAA titles are nearly bug free and we beg to differ. You are trying to confuse the argument by now talking about how often bugs arise as opposed to if they happen at all.
I love when fanboys think it is ok not to receive soemthing you pay for. (the discs). I wonder fi they would go to any other business and let that happen. Oh yes sir here is your dinner. It is not the real dinner we will send you that shortly. And then they never send it. But it is ok.
Since we've been talking about the general AAA experience, would you say that RIFT is the average AAA release compared to all the others from the last 5 or 6 years (i.e. Vanguard, AoC, WAR, CO, STO, Global Agenda, APB, FFXIV, Aion, Auto Assault, Hellgate, Tabula Rasa, DCUO, etc)?
You've listed some problems peculiar to MO, and asked if they occur in other games, as though those are the only possible problems than an MMO can have, while defining the problems that the other games have as "nitpicking". I can assure you that the critics of those other games feel that the shortcomings of those games are just as serious, and just as valid, as you believe MO's issues to be. If pointing out their shortcomings is nitpicking, then the same should be said of pointing out MO's shortcomings, if we are to be objective and fair about it. The specific problems can be different, and still valid for each different game.
Beyond that, when discussing the total AAA experience, I believe that encompasses not just the technical, but also things like design and innovation. Given that, they all have their own well publicized, much ballyhooed shortcomings, many of which MO does not share. To use your example, RIFT is probably the most clone-like game of all the WoW clones (while MO certainly is not). I'm not sure anyone at Trion has ever had an innovative thought in their lives, and if they have, RIFT provides no proof of it. Class balance was horrible to start, and is still a problem. Did we need another instance-laden game? Trion thinks so. Linear gameplay stemming from just two starting areas (one for each faction) is substandard for the genre. The same old, same old in trumped up faction based themepark PvP. A gear grind - what a surprise. Uninspired, run-of-the-mill crafting. An overall shortage in content at launch - a common shortfall for most MMOs. One need only venture over to the RIFT forum on this site to find the myriad of "valid" and serious criticisms of that game - criticisms that are just as valid as the ones found for MO, though the specific issues may be different. To many of the critics on this site, RIFT is considered a failure.
If the pinacle of the AAA experience is just more-of-the-same, uninspired game design theft, then RIFT has certainly met that standard. Unfortunately, in my opinion, the vast majority of other AAA titles have sadly fallen far short of even being able to be a good copy of other games, both in design and technical competence.
In any event, I prefer a fantasy sandbox game. RIFT does not provide such an experience, no matter its level of polish, and it never will. MO does provide that type of gameplay, which is more important in my view.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
All the people and their theories as to why this game couldn't be picked up and to allow Starvault to continue developing it with more resources amuse me...
The prime example and latest would be GamersFirst purchasing Fallen Earth BUT allowing the original team to continue it's development with better resources and support. Why could Mortal Online not do this model? They'd have everything they need and GamersFirst would (as anyone who thinks a F2P microtransaction game is not profitable is insane) be making profit alongside StarVault.
It's a win-win situation and it could be done.
Personally, I have nothing against F2P games, and know they can be profitable. I play a few of them from time to time.
I think that it would probably be pretty difficult to fit the vision for MO to a F2P model, however. Some games, by their design, fit that model better than others, and I don't think MO fits particularly well without a lot of modification that might severely undermine the vision for the game.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
lol
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Indeed.. but what I have gathered from GamersFirst (I am no professional analyist or anything so this is my asusmption) they go based off minor things that will sell large quantities that at the same time do not effect the game for the masses. I'll use APB as an example.. although this game does fall under your category of easy to F2P...
Premium doesn't offer someone a chance of increased chance of victory, but gives them props that are on their side such as: increased XP. I guess you could say in the log run it could be damaging for free players but there needs to be a line between who's supporting the game and who's leeching.
In Mortal I could see something like...
Premium offers increased rates of reading, faster skill progression, and things of that nature but not to a effect of 100% increased, but around 10-20%.
Players could also possibly purchase copies of houses in which may just be set down complete. Someone might find this unfair, but they also still pose the risk of paying to lose a house... in which can bring in continued revenue with those who'd seek to purchase yet again what they lost.
Essentially all mechanics would still be the same, yet players who purchase goods would have something over another.. but nothing that the free player couldn't obtain his/herself or destroy of the player who has purchased. In this sense balance can be kept and revenue can continue to roll in.
Good choice going with RIFT: I was very impressed by their launch, their advertising was top-notch and EVERYWHERE, they have all their ducks in a row for sure. Here's a quick list of some youtube vids of rift bugs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm4n78GRM9U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs6VfXP-hsY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypj1pOBznts&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEEcP4MPeQI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ17bvse2d0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX5D3-0-Z9E&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPd7jLpVroY&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6dzr_s6idU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnsugFfzO2M&feature=related
Here is a list of forum posts in their tech support section about game-breaking bugs:
http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?228130-game-locks-up
http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?223847-Constant-Disconnects
http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?228159-Game-made-unplayable-by-stop-and-go-lag.
http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?228160-very-low-FPS-issues-on-580-GTX
http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?227728-Lag-the-kind-that...-isn-t-possible
This list was compiled in about 3 minutes, and is all 'page 1' stuff. Is RIFT a bad game? No. Not my style, but it's a solid game. There's deep flaws in any game, let's stop pretending that MO is somehow alone in it's flaws.
edit for typos