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i wish MO had DF's dev team.
Jakdstripper
Member RarePosts: 2,410
let me start by saying i'v tried DF more then once but it never got me addicted. i liked many things about the game but never quite LOVED any particular thing. i simply get bored after playing for a few days and never log back in. to me it's like flat pop, it's ok but id' rather have something else.
MO on the other hand absolutely pisses me off on a daily basis with all it's brokeness and things that dont work a damn but somehow i just can never get enough. every day i'm like "maybe they fixed this and that, and now it will be awesome" " maybe they got rid of the lag" "maybe they fixed this, may they fixed that".......but it never is. it's hard to explaing but MO is so close to what i would call the perfect mmo it hurts, and yet, it never delivers.
it truly puzzles me how this works, but it does.
however, playing MO and seeing the similarities with DF i cannot' but stand in awe of the work the DF dev team has done, especially considering the size of the game and all it's in it. it's just.....wow! if anything i will give the DF development team incredible credit for making such an awesomely smooth and tight game. every day i log into MO i wish so hard they had half the talent and experties DF team has.
Comments
I agree with you. Darkfall definitely has a much better development team. Like the game, don't like the game, you can't say that they screwed up their coding. I really enjoyed Darkfall for a while, but I just wanted more sandbox elements. But it was definitely a smooth ride for the most part.
I self identify as a monkey.
Mortal Online is much closer to being a "sandbox" FFA PvP MMO than DarkFall, like Aventurine wanted. In fact, DarkFall is much closer to being just a PvP Arena on a large map with no consequences. Star Vault has a lot of work to do, mostly due to inexperience, but the game has been gradually improving even if the progress is done at snail's pace. Aventurine on the other hand...they've been moving further and further way from their initial vision that brought it's playerbase, and now are even considering the possibility of wiping the servers when the game has been running for over 2 years so that they can introduce "Darkfall 2.0" which isn't even a new game but a continuation of the current game.
Are you sure you want the DF team to control MO? Ok, OP, you really dont know what you are talking about. MO devs are 100 time better. Its just harder to work around the unreal engine into an mmorpg, specally by a small compnay.
So let me get this. You want every player holdings to be stationated before the game even started? In DF, you cant even custumize anything. You cannot change the location of any buildings. Even Villages are already made. You just have to go there with a card and claim it your own.
You want no cap or decay? You want to be able to double jump into a city instead of destroying the walls 1st? You want archery to be so fast and melee so sprint forward and spam? Lol, you want to craft a mount figuring and spawn it instantly.
Seriously...
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
DF development team are working with their own engine which in turn makes development far easier once you have the egnine working, becuase they know the engine better than anyone. SV however chose to go with the ue3 along with grome and atlas which they obviously didnt make. I wouldnt say that df dev team are better at all. Sure their coding is better and their patches better but...
1. They never stuck to their original design for darkfall, probably due to time constraints and a realisation it would be to much for them to handle which currently sv are struggling with but sticking to.
2. They lack the vision or imagination to create a truley unique game or any unique features or experimentation.
3. they like to keep their community in the dark, they rarely post anything useful about upcoming patches and have a history of patch delays.
4. Their patches whilst stable are so infrequent people get bored quickly
5. they fail to see obvious flaws with their basic game design that keep even experienced sandbox vetrans away from their game.
6. they quite possibly made some of the worst game design descisions of any mmo at the start of the game.
also stealing monutys is one of many features planned for mo to, in beta u used to get a message when trying to monut a horse saying you dont have the required skills to steal this monut. And please the darkfall seige system is more borked than MOs and thats saying something.
One of the biggest truths on this site is that alot of the people previously banned from mo and the forums come here to talk about the game in a negative light, infact in any negative way they possibly can regardless of the validity of their actual comments.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
Wait a minute here... you think that it's harder to build a game around an already existing engine that takes care of physics, pathing, lighting, shadows, sound, movement, AI, terrain, elevation and a lot more, than building a game that has to do ALL of those things reliably?
It's like saying it's harder to build a car because you bought an engine from BMW that isn't easy to work with. MUCH easier to build your own engine that does what BMWs does, and oddly enough -- works for thousands of other people who buy it.
First of all, THOUSANDS of developers have worked with the Unreal Engine. The good developers made great games, and the bad ones, the engine obviously didn't help them. SV falls into the latter of "bad developers".
Your points largely have nothing to do with the Aventurine DEVELOPMENT team, but rather the "management" team. SV is having a problem using an engine that is *designed* to make work easier for developers that use it. That's the whole point of BUYING IT, as thousands of game companies have saved time by licensing an engine.
As for the quality of the developers... SV had one thing they made themselves -- the patching software. And if you remember the first release before a PLAYER of the game had to re-write it, the damn thing didn't work AT ALL. Not even a little bit. It hung, it crashed, it didn't download things, it didn't use a P2P connection, etc. *THAT* is the quality of SV programming. And you guys are going to blame the fact they went with Epic and Unreal engine because the game is buggy? LOL
doesnt change the fact that with all of aventurines skill they couldnt make a half decent game, but with all of sv's dedication and vision they made a game that is flawed but much more interesting and memorable.
the simple fact that darkfall developers could not forsee that adding skills which affect the ability of a player in combat to a deathmatch game with no skill cap would result in overpowered behemoths crushing players like ants due to massive non player controlled advantages braught through simply grinding longer. This is an ultimate fail in a game. You just cnanot recover from.
aventurine a better developer? sure
but they suck at making games.
edit- dont get me wrong though, i actually want df to become a good game. i keep a lcose eye on its progress and many of my guild members in MO LEFT darkfall to come play MO. they will possibly try darkfall once again if they wipe the server but until then its a unanimous avoid.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
The thing is that developers are separate from designers. The developers, strangely enough, made a game that worked well, patched well, and played well. It was just boring.
SV made a game that doesn't play well at all, doesn't patch well at all, and has some great grand ideas of what they WANT to do, but have no skill to implement.
Which is worse? I don't know. But I can say that the product that works, despite being boring, generally can last a long time.
Honestly, the Darkfall developers seem to be far more competent. They even hold contracts with the Greek Defense agency, I'm not exactly sure what for, but that's enough for me to believe that they're experienced or knowledgeable enough to convince the DEFNESE AGENCY OF AN ENTIRE COUNTRY that they're suitable enough programmers to do work for them. What have the developers from SV done? That's right, they made some Unreal mods (or mod?).
All I'm saying here is that if you look at the two teams and examine their skills, the Darkfall devs probably could make Mortal Online into a much more playable game than the SV developers (and I used the word playable, just to reiterate), but I'd be willing to bet that the project would require them to rewrite or restructure most of the game's code, or even scrap Unreal and completely redesign their own engine. Sure, I don't agree with some of Darkfall's design, like the extremely short-sighted lack of skill cap, but they can certainly make a game that works, which is more than I can say for MO.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Scrapping the handful of code lines that build the very core of Mortal is not neccessary, fear not! For Starvault have finally gotten rid off placeholder mechanics in Dawn. What we're seeing is a solid code base that SV are planning to expand from. :I
I'm not sure if this is a joke or not...
I would rather have infrequent patches that do not break the game and a stable game over frequent patches that break the game and introduce new explouts, dupes, and FOTMs. MO has been out ofr over a year and stable and MO do not even go in the same paragraph. Dawn was what 3 weeks ago and they are still fixing stuff in the "expansion". I played DF for 6 months and it is a little boring. but what got me was lots of pve and working AI. That got me to sub for atleast 6 months. I need something to do between the deathmatch. For people to say MO is not a deathmatch must not play.
I'm sorry but I just have to ask you to stick to facts here in the comparisson. In the last oh... 5 months, how many content patches has Mortal Online had? As far as I know, it had one (DAWN)... then you go all the way back in February before the Trial Accts were added (and it wasn't exactly chock full of content).
Yes, SV typically has small pacthes that say "fixed prediction system", or "fixed bug XYZ", but that's not exactly stuff that would address boredom. Now you have had the big DAWN expansion.. which added a few content features (some of which are still turned off due to bugs/exploits). When do you think you will see another big content patch?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You do bring up a good point SV has had 1 content patch in the last 5 months. Maybe he is talking about not being bored finding all the bugs/exploits/dupes/new killer weapons after every "fix" patch.
Bugemon gotta catch em all!
I disagree... after all, DF already has DF's dev team, and I hate that game.
It seems SV has great ideas and conviction with sloppy execution; DF has decent execution (come on, it's polished compared to MO, but it's not as polished as some people seem to think it is), with piss-poor ideas and conviction.
I choose the former, because I'd rather play a fun game than a polished game. Apparently I'm alone on this though...
The problem is that you are comparing an objective item (number of bugs/polish) vs a subjective item (fun). Personally I have played both games... I had infinitely more enjoyment in Darkfall as it was... you know... an actual funtioning game. That said, there were design issues which erroded the fun for me and I eventually left the game.
Now, Adventurine has announced Darkfall 2.0 and for me personally, I have a lot more confidence that they can fix the design issues which plagued the first version than I have in SV ever coming close to producing a game that their PowerPoint described that actually works.
(Keep in mind that just because I have more conifdence in Aventurine doesn't mean I think it will happen. I think it's quite possible that DF2.0 will fail as well. It's really hard to get a second chance from gamers in today's market and there are some monster titles on the way soon)
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
If its a pissing match, its DF hands down. Its mobs might be glitchy and exploitable but at least they do something. DF game design choices were horrid, and they have failed to fix them adaquately. At least they are trying something full and new today. A lot of their problems i think stem from lack of a proper test server.
bohemia interactive hold references with the US military,a and every game they have made has been one of the buggiest games ever made (albiet some of the most amazing.
I think thats quite a good comparison here with MO and DF,
MO is more like OFP in that they are both buggy as hell. But if you can stomach the bugs the actual play time is very rewarding. They both try to do something different and unique in their own right. DF however is more like OFP Dragon Rising, way more polished and alot less buggy, but way less ambitious and as a result of that simply an un rewarding and disapointing playing experience.
I guess it depends what you like from a game and both DF and MO are similar really when you look at the genre as a whole. The problem is that aventurine added game mechanics to their game (core features) that render the game unplayable for 90% of the hardcore full loot full pvp fanbase. Im not looking for a polished game, if i wanted a polished game i wouldnt play df or MO i would look at something like WOW which is polished beyond compare. NO what im looking for is a rewarding playing experience i cant get anywhere else and the truth is i dont have 5 months to grind 8 hours per day in darkfall just to be competative in a pvp mmo. However i do have the time to spend 3-4 hours 5 days a week playing MO, which only takes 2 weeks to become competative.
MO however has great core features (that only just work but work they do) and the devs have a vision to make MO into a game like no other, when you look at the future for darkfall there simply isnt one that the fanbase know much about, but with MO the fanbase can just list off planned content that whilst will probably not all make it into mo keep the playerbase excitied about the game.
lets also not forget that DF has 1 year of release time on MO, i can guarantee that in 1 years time if both games are stilll going MO will be a far better game then than darkfall is right now.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
...joke, yes. :P
Will MO be open in 1 year? Right now MO is releasing Expansions wich equal what DF puts out in a patch. And DF does not put out large expansions or patches. Lets face it MO is just a sad joke. DF sucks in many ways, but MO in comparison is just an amiture mess.
If Mortal Online were developed by Razorwax...
Mortal Online was announced and the website open in April 2009.
Starvault merged with Procedural Inc. early last year and moved to Switzerland. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procedural_Inc
A closed clan Beta will be announced for March 2013 (This unfortunately will not happen)
The first in-game videos will be released in /september 2013 to make up for the cancellation of the closed clan beta.
Mortal Online will have a stand alone demonstration version at E3 in 2014.
Mortak online will release it's second gameplay video towards the end of the year in 2014.
Mortal Online will be planning to open Beta testing in spring 2015.
Mortal Online will be announced as "feature complete" in fall 2015
Mortal Online will enter a "limited public hardware test" as the first stage of Beta in spring/summer 2016, followed by a staged gameplay-oriented public beta.
Mortal online will be released in the fall of 2016.
Six months after release (spring 2017) Mortal online will release there first expansion (housing weather, etc)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkfall ---Development History section
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All of this is not meant as a criticism of Darkfall. Just when people make statements such as "Right now MO is releasing Expansions wich equal what DF puts out in a patch. And DF does not put out large expansions or patches", they should really keep in mind that Razorwax/ Aventurine spend ALOT more time developing their code to get where they are now.
"Will MO be open in 1 year?" By most indications, the population of Darkfall and MO are in the same ballpark, so if MO folds and Darkfall doesn't it will be mostly due to different production costs.
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All apologies towards Procedural Inc. They were just the closest analogy I could find to what Aventurine was prior to the merger with Razorwax. (3d modeling, small company, no game development experience,most of there work being in research associated with the government/universities)
LOL. That's the problem, no matter how often you try to pretend it's a reason for why SV are awesomesauce anyway. I'm glad we all agree that SV spend little time on developing code.
Sure, why not. Everyone can write something here. And I really do bet that all those interns and the volunteer who code the launcher cost a shit ton of money.
And by most indications, I conclude on two more things:
- Production costs vary randomly and there is usually nobody in a company who keeps track of its organisation.
- Programmers that produce quality software like Mortal Online generally cost a fortune. It's not like I could just achieve the result thing by hiring two part-time indians for a few weeks per year.
Yes. Sarcasm. Sorry Americans.
SV is using Grome world engine for the world and speedtrees for the trees,grass ect all other objects are unreal engine such as mobs,houses AI ect.
Just saying.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.