I am still not sure if ill like the more active combat or not.
The action side of me is looking forward to the more active combat as it surely will add more need to pay attention and actual skill might become important again.
On the other hand the RPG fan side of me is crying out in pain about this combat system what use it is to build u an eva class if all classes regardless on skilling and equipment can dodge by just hitting 1 button hell building anything else than a Plate wearer will put me in a disadvantage now since i can evade anyway but if i miss the right timing i at least wear the most armor to get best protection.
ANet said in a Video that they wanted to put RPG back into MMORPG and right after that they explained there combat which was really contradicting
I wonder if my gamemaster for Shadowrun will allow me to evade all attacks only course i say i evade worth a try i guess lol
A game being an RPG has nothing to do with what kind of combat system it has.
So GW2's revolutionary and innovative new features are...
Moving during combat... and unique graphics for each class?
While the latter is a MUST in any game and I believe the latter should have been done a decade ago, it doesn't actually do anything for combat. In the end, graphics don't really matter because the game (or movie) you watch begins to all meld together and we as humans no longer can perceive all the detail going on at any one moment. Which is why black and white movies "turn into color" as you forget they're black and white-- or how spell effects cease to be glamorous after 100,000 of them all combine together. Each class has unique spell effects and animations? WOW! That means GW2 spent more money on graphics than usual, because the budget is bigger. I'm just really glad the writer of this review explained to us so clearly how graphics and animations directly impact game mechanics and strategy!
Movement during combat is not only not new, it is extremely, extremely old. Almost every MMO in existence includes movement during combat. In fact, I don't know a single MMORPG where PvP doesn't require constant movement, strafing, and chasing.
FPS aiming, manual dodging and blocking? This is extremely old as well. Not only have MMORPG's done this before, but there are MANY of them. It also doesn't mean a better or more strategic combat system. It means nothing. Nothing innovative. Nothing new. Nothing special. DDO and Darkfall already do all 3 of these things, and those games are OLD!
What did I gather from this review? GW2 combat is identical to every other MMORPG combat, and is nothing new. Also, the reviewer probably "quit other games because of the combat" which is identical to GW2's combat-- the bias and new factor just blinds him to it. Ugh!!
Oh, and I almost forgot-- you can switch weapons? Wow, what innovation! It's not like picking your class or hybrid, or Rift's 3-class creation system didn't do this far before GW2. In fact, GW2 sounds A LOT like Rift, only slightly different and with LESS innovation.
This article does nothing more than prove the fact I already knew: GW2 is pure hype, and will certainly NOT be any different than any other game released in 2011. Dynamic events are already done as well...and a lot of GW2 fanbois didn't like them. They were called Rifts. World PvP will be no different than cross server PvP or a horribly butchered version of Relic Keeps in DAoC.
Tiny step ? As mentioned above, dodge and roll is being used for the first time in a mmo, not to mention the L4D style of reviving teammates. You also have water combat , which is not new but how it is being done is unique. Nothing tiny about Guild Wars 2 except Asura.
Not only is it not the first time, but it's quite an old feature in MMORPG's. The oldest one that comes to mind is DDO, which is quite old.
Darkfall created the L4D reviving... 8 months after L4D...and it was under development far before L4D was even fathomed in the mind of Valve. (Correct me if I'm wrong on that one.) So the idea might have been original at the time Darkfall created the idea. (As original as can be in a world full of probably hundreds of games which already did this, starting back in the Atari days).
Dissatisfied9, if you can't figure out why someone might not have wanted to play Darkfall, or DDO, or DAOC, or Rift (or better, might have actually tried/played each of those games, and not enjoyed them), but is still looking forward to GW2, then you're right, there's nothing anyone else can say to you. Glad you found the game you want to play.
I am still not sure if ill like the more active combat or not.
The action side of me is looking forward to the more active combat as it surely will add more need to pay attention and actual skill might become important again.
On the other hand the RPG fan side of me is crying out in pain about this combat system what use it is to build u an eva class if all classes regardless on skilling and equipment can dodge by just hitting 1 button hell building anything else than a Plate wearer will put me in a disadvantage now since i can evade anyway but if i miss the right timing i at least wear the most armor to get best protection.
ANet said in a Video that they wanted to put RPG back into MMORPG and right after that they explained there combat which was really contradicting
I wonder if my gamemaster for Shadowrun will allow me to evade all attacks only course i say i evade worth a try i guess lol
A game being an RPG has nothing to do with what kind of combat system it has.
Seems like we have a different understanding of RPGs than while i can agree with u to some degree (Playing a different role would make it a role game) do i still believe that the combat is an important part the Evading and Blocking system could work in a RPG system if for example the Heavy tank evades way slower than the agile Rouge and also tires out way faster but his blocks would be quicker (if using a shield) than the parry's of the shield less classes.
Maybe i am just stuck in my old school ways i play RPGs for over 23 years now and the skilling of my characters always mattered a lot for the combat system for fast paced button smashing i always used an Fighting game (Tekken DOA usw)
OK, for all the naysayers here, i have an honest question. What other MMO allows you to dodge a fireball that was cast on you and then allows you to dodge behind a wall AFTER the spell casting was completed but before the animation of the fireball hits you? Because every mmo ive played where i have attempted to dodge behind a wall from an incoming arrow or fireball that is already heading towards me, just has the fireball/arrow go through the wall to hit me. Im not familar with any games where this hasnt been the case. Im not saying i dont believe such a game may exist, i honestly am just not aware of one.
Also, another question if i may. What other MMO's have combination skills that work in direct concert with other mmo's (i.e. like Chrono Trigger on the SNES for those that remember it)? Now some people have already brought up FF11 and DCUO, but can either of those games also be the answer to my first question?
This seems to be what some people are genuinely excited about in this game. You can pick over individual things about this game and put them under a microscope and claim that by themselves they are nothing to get excited about, but that is missing the point. People are not excited about this game for any single feature by itself, but rather the combination of great ideas that may have been tried by themselves before, but are now being tried alongside other potentially great ideas. Even if the only inovation this game has to offer is taking other people's inovations and actually putting them in a game were they fit better with mechanics that compliment the myriad other mechancis that were previous inovations attempted by others.
I know people are annoyed at the constant talk of inovation when it comes to GW2, but sometimes making an idea fun is in and of itself inovative. A great idea for an mmo mechanic may have lots of value on its own, but if its attached to an otherwise subpar game then no one will care enough about its inovation to want to play it, then what is the point. People are excited about this game because of the myriad differences between this and every other game. It may share features with many of them, but no other game has all of them.
It's funny that the cynics think anyone is saying anything other than agreeing with the article title that GW2 will kick combat up A NOTCH.
Fan: "I'm excited and think GW2 combat will be different because I've seen it/experienced it and it is definitely different than the first, or than I've experienced in other MMOs"
Cynic: "OMG why do you fanbois keep saying that GW2 combat will be so otherworldy revolutionary and bring about world peace?! Sure, it'll be DIFFERENT, but that's all, really."
Tiny step ? As mentioned above, dodge and roll is being used for the first time in a mmo, not to mention the L4D style of reviving teammates. You also have water combat , which is not new but how it is being done is unique. Nothing tiny about Guild Wars 2 except Asura.
First time? DCUO has already been mentioned. It's a real MMO, it's more of an MMO than GW1 was, with less instancing, more raids, more PvE, etc. I doubt anything will beat the action and tactical feel of it's combat for a long time. I'm glad GW2 is trying to add a little to the standard MMO-fare, but it's not the first in anything, and definitely won't be the paradigm.
My question is why just go half measured? An mmo where your characters weapon or projectile has to make 3D contact with it's target based on physics and trajectory would have been pretty revolutionary if done right. This hybrid system just seems odd.
In reply to the orange;
DCUO doesn't have more content than the first campaign of GW1. I've played both so I know them very well.
In reply to the green;
I believe that is how GW2 attacks work. You can even stand in front of someone and any projectile coming in the direction you are standing will not hit the person behind you.
I am still not sure if ill like the more active combat or not.
The action side of me is looking forward to the more active combat as it surely will add more need to pay attention and actual skill might become important again.
On the other hand the RPG fan side of me is crying out in pain about this combat system what use it is to build u an eva class if all classes regardless on skilling and equipment can dodge by just hitting 1 button hell building anything else than a Plate wearer will put me in a disadvantage now since i can evade anyway but if i miss the right timing i at least wear the most armor to get best protection.
ANet said in a Video that they wanted to put RPG back into MMORPG and right after that they explained there combat which was really contradicting
I wonder if my gamemaster for Shadowrun will allow me to evade all attacks only course i say i evade worth a try i guess lol
This isn't a tabletop MMO, you're actually playing your character now with controls and all the bells and whistles. You're telling me that you'd rather have some roll a dice and tell you've dodged an attack that you clearly could not have dodged and then a few minutes later it rolls a dice again and tell you you didn't dodge an attack that you clearly could have dodged? If yes, then, there is no hope for the world anymore.
So GW2's revolutionary and innovative new features are...
Moving during combat... and unique graphics for each class?
While the latter is a MUST in any game and I believe the latter should have been done a decade ago, it doesn't actually do anything for combat. In the end, graphics don't really matter because the game (or movie) you watch begins to all meld together and we as humans no longer can perceive all the detail going on at any one moment. Which is why black and white movies "turn into color" as you forget they're black and white-- or how spell effects cease to be glamorous after 100,000 of them all combine together. Each class has unique spell effects and animations? WOW! That means GW2 spent more money on graphics than usual, because the budget is bigger. I'm just really glad the writer of this review explained to us so clearly how graphics and animations directly impact game mechanics and strategy!
Movement during combat is not only not new, it is extremely, extremely old. Almost every MMO in existence includes movement during combat. In fact, I don't know a single MMORPG where PvP doesn't require constant movement, strafing, and chasing.
FPS aiming, manual dodging and blocking? This is extremely old as well. Not only have MMORPG's done this before, but there are MANY of them. It also doesn't mean a better or more strategic combat system. It means nothing. Nothing innovative. Nothing new. Nothing special. DDO and Darkfall already do all 3 of these things, and those games are OLD!
What did I gather from this review? GW2 combat is identical to every other MMORPG combat, and is nothing new. Also, the reviewer probably "quit other games because of the combat" which is identical to GW2's combat-- the bias and new factor just blinds him to it. Ugh!!
Oh, and I almost forgot-- you can switch weapons? Wow, what innovation! It's not like picking your class or hybrid, or Rift's 3-class creation system didn't do this far before GW2. In fact, GW2 sounds A LOT like Rift, only slightly different and with LESS innovation.
This article does nothing more than prove the fact I already knew: GW2 is pure hype, and will certainly NOT be any different than any other game released in 2011. Dynamic events are already done as well...and a lot of GW2 fanbois didn't like them. They were called Rifts. World PvP will be no different than cross server PvP or a horribly butchered version of Relic Keeps in DAoC.
Like Sid alluded to, you really have to look beyond this article and go look for all the other information about GW2 in order to see where the difference and the uniqueness lays. We know the reason why GW2 isn't overhyped but it is up to you to ask the right questions and seek the right answers. In fact, the reasons why the combat is so great is littered across these comments and all you have to do is read them.
[quote] Going to laugh when it has half the content of any P2P mmo. [/quote]
Underwater Content
8 Dungeons x 4 different scenarios per dungeon = 32 Dungeons scenarios
1500+ Dynamic Events
5 Races = 1 Personal story arc per race
3 different mini factions per race = 15 different personal story directions for all the races put together
World PvP
Arena PvP/ Guild vs Guild
Mini games - Snow ball fights, Keg Ball, Shooting gallery, Giant Music box etc
Trait Hunting
Bar Brawls
Crafting
I think that's about it...DCUO doesn't even have that much content yet and its a P2P MMO.
So GW2's revolutionary and innovative new features are...
Moving during combat... and unique graphics for each class?
While the latter is a MUST in any game and I believe the latter should have been done a decade ago, it doesn't actually do anything for combat. In the end, graphics don't really matter because the game (or movie) you watch begins to all meld together and we as humans no longer can perceive all the detail going on at any one moment. Which is why black and white movies "turn into color" as you forget they're black and white-- or how spell effects cease to be glamorous after 100,000 of them all combine together. Each class has unique spell effects and animations? WOW! That means GW2 spent more money on graphics than usual, because the budget is bigger. I'm just really glad the writer of this review explained to us so clearly how graphics and animations directly impact game mechanics and strategy!
Movement during combat is not only not new, it is extremely, extremely old. Almost every MMO in existence includes movement during combat. In fact, I don't know a single MMORPG where PvP doesn't require constant movement, strafing, and chasing.
FPS aiming, manual dodging and blocking? This is extremely old as well. Not only have MMORPG's done this before, but there are MANY of them. It also doesn't mean a better or more strategic combat system. It means nothing. Nothing innovative. Nothing new. Nothing special. DDO and Darkfall already do all 3 of these things, and those games are OLD!
What did I gather from this review? GW2 combat is identical to every other MMORPG combat, and is nothing new. Also, the reviewer probably "quit other games because of the combat" which is identical to GW2's combat-- the bias and new factor just blinds him to it. Ugh!!
Oh, and I almost forgot-- you can switch weapons? Wow, what innovation! It's not like picking your class or hybrid, or Rift's 3-class creation system didn't do this far before GW2. In fact, GW2 sounds A LOT like Rift, only slightly different and with LESS innovation.
This article does nothing more than prove the fact I already knew: GW2 is pure hype, and will certainly NOT be any different than any other game released in 2011. Dynamic events are already done as well...and a lot of GW2 fanbois didn't like them. They were called Rifts. World PvP will be no different than cross server PvP or a horribly butchered version of Relic Keeps in DAoC.
Clearly you have never played a competetive game. If each animation has a different animation, I can counter it accordingly. If having different animations is useless, then all those times of waiting to disruot a certain healing skill or AoE spell must have never happened. An attack with a knockdown will look different from an attack that causes bleeding. If I see the former coming, I can quickly put on a stance to prevent any knockdowns on me. These are just things I am pulling out of thin air, these are actual scenarios that happen. Learning each animation will probably be what separates the casuals from the hardcore.
It's not just about swapping weapons. Each weapon has skills associated with it, which in the end, will help you focus into a role. Swapping weapons will mean swapping roles. Of course this may look bad to you, because you might prefer the generic MMO where you have all 200 skills availble to you. Where GW1 and GW2 comes from is that knowing when to paly a role is what requires skills. Walking into a battle with 200+ skills on your bar is not as impressive as walking with 10. But again, if you didn't enjoy competitive pvp, then this won't interest you. But a good chunk of GW2 will require you to adapt and change roles, not just use everything together. If you see a buffing necro with a support guardian, and you are an elementalists, you would make the choice of NOT rolling in as a healing elementalist. In other games, including Rift, you don't need to make that planned decision, for you already have everything at your disposal.
Rifts are no where near as varied as GW2's DE. What did you do in your first rift invasion? You fought waves of monsters. What did you do in the second and third rift encounter? You fought waves of monsters didn't you? Though to give credit where due, Rift did offer puzzles and slight variations to each rift invasion. However, GW2's DE will consists of : Fighting waves, escorts, construction, delivery, assaulting/invading, puzzles, even farming and exploration are a part of DE's. That's why Rift still has the generic quests, because rifts alone would not compensate for the minimum.
Also, GW2 does have the whole 3d model attack thing. It's not as precise as modern FPS (at least it wasn't for me...) but it is there. Standind in fron of someone will cause you to take the hit. You won't be able to fire arrows through a wall, but only over it. The arrow will not bend around it if your enemy runs behind the wall. GW2 uses Havok...
Honestly though, there is a reasion why (rough estimate) 90% of the players and game sites only have good things to say about the game. Compare that 90% to what you see on the SWTOR site or what game sites are saying about SWTOR, then GW2 looks to have a solid future. Even during the Rift beta, followers were leaving.
I mean, I understand, if you haven't played the game (and I don't think you have since you didn't know about the 3d hitbox) then it doesn't seem all that. But I, along with countless fans and non-fans alike only have good things to say about it.
Going to laugh when it has half the content of any P2P mmo.
You can always check out the sites that compare worlds from various RPGs. GW1 has more world-size content than a lot of AAA P2P games. That was before you could go underwater...
Rolling a dice is what makes a RPG what it is like I tried to explain for me RPG means creating a character skilling it to my personal liking equiping it with gear that compliments the skills best and than see the results if now all characters can evade and block on an equal lvl regardless of the skilling and gear its just not an individual feeling to the classes granted the important of actual player skill u will need to evade and block is something I am looking forward too just am wondering if its worth the loss of the actually character building. If evading and blocking would be skills u could skill and by doing so change the (for example) speed or quantity of the skills I would totally love it but the way it is going to be (as far as I know) is just an skill that's equal for all classes.
Btw in tabletops or pen and paper rpgs u do have way more control over your character than u will ever have in an PC game u do need to actively block and evade as well but what matters is how good your character can perform this tasks
Rolling a dice is what makes a RPG what it is like I tried to explain for me RPG means creating a character skilling it to my personal liking equiping it with gear that compliments the skills best and than see the results if now all characters can evade and block on an equal lvl regardless of the skilling and gear its just not an individual feeling to the classes granted the important of actual player skill u will need to evade and block is something I am looking forward too just am wondering if its worth the loss of the actually character building.
If evading and blocking would be skills u could skill and by doing so change the (for example) speed or quantity of the skills I would totally love it but the way it is going to be (as far as I know) is just an skill that's equal for all classes.
Btw in tabletops or pen and paper rpgs u do have way more control over your character than u will ever have in an PC game u do need to actively block and evade as well but what matters is how good your character can perform this tasks
Rolling a dice doesn't mean a game is an RPG. RPG stands for role playing game. As in you create and play as the character that you want to be. Rolling dice doesn't enter the equation at any time unless you are playing a PnP game.
Rolling a dice is what makes a RPG what it is like I tried to explain for me RPG means creating a character skilling it to my personal liking equiping it with gear that compliments the skills best and than see the results if now all characters can evade and block on an equal lvl regardless of the skilling and gear its just not an individual feeling to the classes granted the important of actual player skill u will need to evade and block is something I am looking forward too just am wondering if its worth the loss of the actually character building.
If evading and blocking would be skills u could skill and by doing so change the (for example) speed or quantity of the skills I would totally love it but the way it is going to be (as far as I know) is just an skill that's equal for all classes.
Btw in tabletops or pen and paper rpgs u do have way more control over your character than u will ever have in an PC game u do need to actively block and evade as well but what matters is how good your character can perform this tasks
A very valid reason to not like the game . As a boardgamer, I do see where you come from. However, I roll enough dices in my boardgames and would welcome a change of combat pace.
Rolling a dice is what makes a RPG what it is like I tried to explain for me RPG means creating a character skilling it to my personal liking equiping it with gear that compliments the skills best and than see the results if now all characters can evade and block on an equal lvl regardless of the skilling and gear its just not an individual feeling to the classes granted the important of actual player skill u will need to evade and block is something I am looking forward too just am wondering if its worth the loss of the actually character building.
If evading and blocking would be skills u could skill and by doing so change the (for example) speed or quantity of the skills I would totally love it but the way it is going to be (as far as I know) is just an skill that's equal for all classes.
Btw in tabletops or pen and paper rpgs u do have way more control over your character than u will ever have in an PC game u do need to actively block and evade as well but what matters is how good your character can perform this tasks
I find it weird that you believe that PC games cannot build differentiations between each class. It is actually pretty easy to make the distinction. All you need to do is define the class' aesthetics and how they would go into a fight and what they would do in that fight. Once that is done, you can go on from there and build the character's skills and traits in a way that is tailored to a playstyle. And all the balancing and stuff comes after.
And to say that PC games give you less control over your character is quite alien to me, I do not understand that.
It's really amazing how people try to break down certain components of Guild Wars 2's combat and say "X game did this, this is not innovative" when the main reason why people like me are excited for the game, is because we take the combat features as a whole. Both land-based and underwater based. I don't care if DCUO or AOC share certain features of GW2's supposed innovative combat, when they don't look fun to play. That's one of the main things a game is supposed to be... fun, and I will certainly have fun, finding creative ways to hit people in the face. Especially in GW2's World v World PvP.
Guess u never played pen and paper rpgs I never said PC games cannot build differentiations between classes most RPGs did it all this years and one big point always was evading and blocking some classes were good in it and some sucked this is being taken away now that's all I say I'm sure I'll still enjoy GW2 for what it will be and only hope that someday someone takes GW fighting system and makes it right (active evading blocking depending and character/class skills)
Guess u never played pen and paper rpgs I never said PC games cannot build differentiations between classes most RPGs did it all this years and one big point always was evading and blocking some classes were good in it and some sucked this is being taken away now that's all I say I'm sure I'll still enjoy GW2 for what it will be and only hope that someday someone takes GW fighting system and makes it right (active evading blocking depending and character/class skills)
In GW2, thieves are better at evading, Guardians are supreme at blocking. Just how much more differentiation do you want?
All classes can dodge, but thief will definitely be superior.
Why are people saying AoC has the better combat when clearly, Darkfall Online does? You don't have ANY Auto-Targetting whatsoever, you can move while casting is done in FPS, you can block and dodge, shoot wherever, whenever the hell you want to while moving...
So why is Guild Wars 2 all of a sudden revolutionary when Darkfall has Third Person Shooter/FPS combat?
Why are people saying AoC has the better combat when clearly, Darkfall Online does? You don't have ANY Auto-Targetting whatsoever, you can move while casting is done in FPS, you can block and dodge, shoot wherever, whenever the hell you want to while moving...
So why is Guild Wars 2 all of a sudden revolutionary when Darkfall has Third Person Shooter/FPS combat?
I'm sorry but GW2 combat system is just a step forward, and a huge step, as much as i like (somehow ) DF as much as this is obvious. DF slaped a fps shooter system in a sword and board game and didn't tweaked the system much, their sprinting feature is beyound stupid, and dodging don't even work, plain and simple. GW2 have a lot of details that make it a lot better, first their aoe are properly made with circles, they have objects for healing you can drop on the floor for anyone to take them because aiming moving freinds on the batle to heal them is just blha, their dodging actually work, the UI seam a lot better, and the weapon/skill are dependant, which will ease by a lot the heavy need of macro in DF to even be able to fight properly. UI of DF is just encumbred with a zillion of skills making the control unbearable even for a vet, not even talking about a noob. DF simply is a pain all around and wasn't though very well, GW2 have a smooth combat system, its pretty obvious they have put a lot more effort in the conception of their system. The only real plus in DF is the engine, not the combat system. If you want to talk about a good fps sword and board combat system don't talk about DF, maybe talk about Mount&blade for example.
Really? Up a notch? Maybe I have been watching different videos, but it doesn't seem to be all that much of a notch. Think about it, people have been using movement as a means to improve their survival in mmorpgs since mmorpgs came out. So you don't have to stop for 0.5 - 2.0 seconds it takes to cast a spell, fire an arrow, or whatever. Big deal.
As if for some reason having unrestricted movement makes the game more tactical. I contend that when you had to actually time spells and actions based on their movement restrictions, the game was more tactical. But yay, now I can move and cast spells in GW2 but still have to contend with global cooldown timers. Oh, and the overwhelming domination of ranged classes in pvp that this type of ability promotes in a game that has auto-targetting.
Lastly, someone mentioned earlier that FPS style games have their own issues with combat that become monotonous after continued use. No different than EQ's original point, click, auto-attack, yawn technique. Bottom line: as much as I like GW2 concept, it is overhyped and will get hurt by that overhype...
You're talking about moving as one aspect of the GW2 combat that doesn't impress you, then bashing the whole system, as if it's the only aspect.
First off, mobs in GW2 will attack differently than in a holy trinity MMO. They are going to try to kill the ones you'd expect mobs to try to kill, the high damage, low armored, more actually threatening people. Taunting doesn't exist in GW2 and the people in the tanking, (or "controlling" role in GW2 terms) won't just have a lock on aggro due to additional threat. More likely, they'll be trying to knock a mob down from behind while it goes for the caster.
In that kind of system, casting while moving is a necessity, not just a convenience.
It goes hand in hand with being able to dodge attacks and projectiles. Warriors can go into a toggled shield stance that blocks projectiles from hitting players behind them. A tank in PVP goes from either being useless or relying on silly mechanics to being a viable shield wall with a mace to stun the guy trying to go around him.
Anyone can rez anybody else at any time in GW2's system. No longer will it just be that someone screwed up, time to call a wipe. It will allow players to battle back and recover from mistakes. Also, it lets mobs do things that would be pretty unfair in a traditional MMO, like hit really hard. We've already seen video of a dynamic event boss 1-shotting a thief who got careless. That isn't even in the dungeons which will be the hard content.
Different classes use weapons differently. A bow in the hands of a ranger is a single target weapon. In the hands of a warrior, it's an AOE weapon. The feel of combat can totally change based on class and weapon, like using a mace for stuns or a greatsword for melee AOE. It's not like other games where any weapon is as good as any other because they're just doing damage.
Weapons and skills change when going underwater. You can't swing a sword so you use a harpoon gun or a trident and get different skills. Fire magic boils the water instead of just acting the same.
Players have multiple weapon sets, kits or attunements so they can switch up their role in combat. You're not locked into being the tank, dps or healer. You can adopt a different role on the fly to adjust to what you need to be doing.
Different classes can work together with cross profession combos. Arrows shot through a fire wall doing extra damage is the most commonly cited example, but there's supposed to be like 100 of them.
I'm not sure if I missed anything. I'm sure someone will help me out if I did. (EDIT, forgot your skillbar changing when you pick up an environmental weapon, dammit)
Anyway, is there any point in the middle of that that GW2 meets the stated goal of kicking combat up a notch?
correct me if im wrong.. but isnt this type of combat almost identical to the type you get in swg right now? moving combat, ranged weapons, melee etc.. about the only difference im seeing is that in swg you get the choice of auto target or aimed target.. and the nge was definitely not 'kicking combat up a notch' in swg either.. seems to me, that gw2 is gw1's nge.. better hope its more popular than the nge was for swg..
Comments
A game being an RPG has nothing to do with what kind of combat system it has.
So GW2's revolutionary and innovative new features are...
Moving during combat... and unique graphics for each class?
While the latter is a MUST in any game and I believe the latter should have been done a decade ago, it doesn't actually do anything for combat. In the end, graphics don't really matter because the game (or movie) you watch begins to all meld together and we as humans no longer can perceive all the detail going on at any one moment. Which is why black and white movies "turn into color" as you forget they're black and white-- or how spell effects cease to be glamorous after 100,000 of them all combine together. Each class has unique spell effects and animations? WOW! That means GW2 spent more money on graphics than usual, because the budget is bigger. I'm just really glad the writer of this review explained to us so clearly how graphics and animations directly impact game mechanics and strategy!
Movement during combat is not only not new, it is extremely, extremely old. Almost every MMO in existence includes movement during combat. In fact, I don't know a single MMORPG where PvP doesn't require constant movement, strafing, and chasing.
FPS aiming, manual dodging and blocking? This is extremely old as well. Not only have MMORPG's done this before, but there are MANY of them. It also doesn't mean a better or more strategic combat system. It means nothing. Nothing innovative. Nothing new. Nothing special. DDO and Darkfall already do all 3 of these things, and those games are OLD!
What did I gather from this review? GW2 combat is identical to every other MMORPG combat, and is nothing new. Also, the reviewer probably "quit other games because of the combat" which is identical to GW2's combat-- the bias and new factor just blinds him to it. Ugh!!
Oh, and I almost forgot-- you can switch weapons? Wow, what innovation! It's not like picking your class or hybrid, or Rift's 3-class creation system didn't do this far before GW2. In fact, GW2 sounds A LOT like Rift, only slightly different and with LESS innovation.
This article does nothing more than prove the fact I already knew: GW2 is pure hype, and will certainly NOT be any different than any other game released in 2011. Dynamic events are already done as well...and a lot of GW2 fanbois didn't like them. They were called Rifts. World PvP will be no different than cross server PvP or a horribly butchered version of Relic Keeps in DAoC.
Not only is it not the first time, but it's quite an old feature in MMORPG's. The oldest one that comes to mind is DDO, which is quite old.
Darkfall created the L4D reviving... 8 months after L4D...and it was under development far before L4D was even fathomed in the mind of Valve. (Correct me if I'm wrong on that one.) So the idea might have been original at the time Darkfall created the idea. (As original as can be in a world full of probably hundreds of games which already did this, starting back in the Atari days).
Dissatisfied9, if you can't figure out why someone might not have wanted to play Darkfall, or DDO, or DAOC, or Rift (or better, might have actually tried/played each of those games, and not enjoyed them), but is still looking forward to GW2, then you're right, there's nothing anyone else can say to you. Glad you found the game you want to play.
Seems like we have a different understanding of RPGs than while i can agree with u to some degree (Playing a different role would make it a role game) do i still believe that the combat is an important part the Evading and Blocking system could work in a RPG system if for example the Heavy tank evades way slower than the agile Rouge and also tires out way faster but his blocks would be quicker (if using a shield) than the parry's of the shield less classes.
Maybe i am just stuck in my old school ways i play RPGs for over 23 years now and the skilling of my characters always mattered a lot for the combat system for fast paced button smashing i always used an Fighting game (Tekken DOA usw)
OK, for all the naysayers here, i have an honest question. What other MMO allows you to dodge a fireball that was cast on you and then allows you to dodge behind a wall AFTER the spell casting was completed but before the animation of the fireball hits you? Because every mmo ive played where i have attempted to dodge behind a wall from an incoming arrow or fireball that is already heading towards me, just has the fireball/arrow go through the wall to hit me. Im not familar with any games where this hasnt been the case. Im not saying i dont believe such a game may exist, i honestly am just not aware of one.
Also, another question if i may. What other MMO's have combination skills that work in direct concert with other mmo's (i.e. like Chrono Trigger on the SNES for those that remember it)? Now some people have already brought up FF11 and DCUO, but can either of those games also be the answer to my first question?
This seems to be what some people are genuinely excited about in this game. You can pick over individual things about this game and put them under a microscope and claim that by themselves they are nothing to get excited about, but that is missing the point. People are not excited about this game for any single feature by itself, but rather the combination of great ideas that may have been tried by themselves before, but are now being tried alongside other potentially great ideas. Even if the only inovation this game has to offer is taking other people's inovations and actually putting them in a game were they fit better with mechanics that compliment the myriad other mechancis that were previous inovations attempted by others.
I know people are annoyed at the constant talk of inovation when it comes to GW2, but sometimes making an idea fun is in and of itself inovative. A great idea for an mmo mechanic may have lots of value on its own, but if its attached to an otherwise subpar game then no one will care enough about its inovation to want to play it, then what is the point. People are excited about this game because of the myriad differences between this and every other game. It may share features with many of them, but no other game has all of them.
One small step for Guild Wars 2, One giant step for MMOG.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
DCUO: yes. That game has other problems though, so all these comparisons serve no purpose whatsoever. One good feature doesn't make a good game.
GW2 is promising because of the whole package, not because it has dodging.
Exactly!
In reply to the orange;
DCUO doesn't have more content than the first campaign of GW1. I've played both so I know them very well.
In reply to the green;
I believe that is how GW2 attacks work. You can even stand in front of someone and any projectile coming in the direction you are standing will not hit the person behind you.
This is not a game.
This isn't a tabletop MMO, you're actually playing your character now with controls and all the bells and whistles. You're telling me that you'd rather have some roll a dice and tell you've dodged an attack that you clearly could not have dodged and then a few minutes later it rolls a dice again and tell you you didn't dodge an attack that you clearly could have dodged? If yes, then, there is no hope for the world anymore.
This is not a game.
Going to laugh when it has half the content of any P2P mmo.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
Like Sid alluded to, you really have to look beyond this article and go look for all the other information about GW2 in order to see where the difference and the uniqueness lays. We know the reason why GW2 isn't overhyped but it is up to you to ask the right questions and seek the right answers. In fact, the reasons why the combat is so great is littered across these comments and all you have to do is read them.
[quote] Going to laugh when it has half the content of any P2P mmo. [/quote]
Underwater Content
8 Dungeons x 4 different scenarios per dungeon = 32 Dungeons scenarios
1500+ Dynamic Events
5 Races = 1 Personal story arc per race
3 different mini factions per race = 15 different personal story directions for all the races put together
World PvP
Arena PvP/ Guild vs Guild
Mini games - Snow ball fights, Keg Ball, Shooting gallery, Giant Music box etc
Trait Hunting
Bar Brawls
Crafting
I think that's about it...DCUO doesn't even have that much content yet and its a P2P MMO.
This is not a game.
Clearly you have never played a competetive game. If each animation has a different animation, I can counter it accordingly. If having different animations is useless, then all those times of waiting to disruot a certain healing skill or AoE spell must have never happened. An attack with a knockdown will look different from an attack that causes bleeding. If I see the former coming, I can quickly put on a stance to prevent any knockdowns on me. These are just things I am pulling out of thin air, these are actual scenarios that happen. Learning each animation will probably be what separates the casuals from the hardcore.
It's not just about swapping weapons. Each weapon has skills associated with it, which in the end, will help you focus into a role. Swapping weapons will mean swapping roles. Of course this may look bad to you, because you might prefer the generic MMO where you have all 200 skills availble to you. Where GW1 and GW2 comes from is that knowing when to paly a role is what requires skills. Walking into a battle with 200+ skills on your bar is not as impressive as walking with 10. But again, if you didn't enjoy competitive pvp, then this won't interest you. But a good chunk of GW2 will require you to adapt and change roles, not just use everything together. If you see a buffing necro with a support guardian, and you are an elementalists, you would make the choice of NOT rolling in as a healing elementalist. In other games, including Rift, you don't need to make that planned decision, for you already have everything at your disposal.
Rifts are no where near as varied as GW2's DE. What did you do in your first rift invasion? You fought waves of monsters. What did you do in the second and third rift encounter? You fought waves of monsters didn't you? Though to give credit where due, Rift did offer puzzles and slight variations to each rift invasion. However, GW2's DE will consists of : Fighting waves, escorts, construction, delivery, assaulting/invading, puzzles, even farming and exploration are a part of DE's. That's why Rift still has the generic quests, because rifts alone would not compensate for the minimum.
Also, GW2 does have the whole 3d model attack thing. It's not as precise as modern FPS (at least it wasn't for me...) but it is there. Standind in fron of someone will cause you to take the hit. You won't be able to fire arrows through a wall, but only over it. The arrow will not bend around it if your enemy runs behind the wall. GW2 uses Havok...
Honestly though, there is a reasion why (rough estimate) 90% of the players and game sites only have good things to say about the game. Compare that 90% to what you see on the SWTOR site or what game sites are saying about SWTOR, then GW2 looks to have a solid future. Even during the Rift beta, followers were leaving.
I mean, I understand, if you haven't played the game (and I don't think you have since you didn't know about the 3d hitbox) then it doesn't seem all that. But I, along with countless fans and non-fans alike only have good things to say about it.
You can always check out the sites that compare worlds from various RPGs. GW1 has more world-size content than a lot of AAA P2P games. That was before you could go underwater...
But you can still laugh, if it helps.
If evading and blocking would be skills u could skill and by doing so change the (for example) speed or quantity of the skills I would totally love it but the way it is going to be (as far as I know) is just an skill that's equal for all classes.
Btw in tabletops or pen and paper rpgs u do have way more control over your character than u will ever have in an PC game u do need to actively block and evade as well but what matters is how good your character can perform this tasks
Rolling a dice doesn't mean a game is an RPG. RPG stands for role playing game. As in you create and play as the character that you want to be. Rolling dice doesn't enter the equation at any time unless you are playing a PnP game.
A very valid reason to not like the game
. As a boardgamer, I do see where you come from. However, I roll enough dices in my boardgames and would welcome a change of combat pace. 
I find it weird that you believe that PC games cannot build differentiations between each class. It is actually pretty easy to make the distinction. All you need to do is define the class' aesthetics and how they would go into a fight and what they would do in that fight. Once that is done, you can go on from there and build the character's skills and traits in a way that is tailored to a playstyle. And all the balancing and stuff comes after.
And to say that PC games give you less control over your character is quite alien to me, I do not understand that.
This is not a game.
It's really amazing how people try to break down certain components of Guild Wars 2's combat and say "X game did this, this is not innovative" when the main reason why people like me are excited for the game, is because we take the combat features as a whole. Both land-based and underwater based. I don't care if DCUO or AOC share certain features of GW2's supposed innovative combat, when they don't look fun to play. That's one of the main things a game is supposed to be... fun, and I will certainly have fun, finding creative ways to hit people in the face. Especially in GW2's World v World PvP.
I never said PC games cannot build differentiations between classes most RPGs did it all this years and one big point always was evading and blocking some classes were good in it and some sucked this is being taken away now that's all I say
I'm sure I'll still enjoy GW2 for what it will be and only hope that someday someone takes GW fighting system and makes it right (active evading blocking depending and character/class skills)
In GW2, thieves are better at evading, Guardians are supreme at blocking. Just how much more differentiation do you want?All classes can dodge, but thief will definitely be superior.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy25cjjKBqw
Hey guys look what I found!
Why are people saying AoC has the better combat when clearly, Darkfall Online does? You don't have ANY Auto-Targetting whatsoever, you can move while casting is done in FPS, you can block and dodge, shoot wherever, whenever the hell you want to while moving...
So why is Guild Wars 2 all of a sudden revolutionary when Darkfall has Third Person Shooter/FPS combat?
I'm sorry but GW2 combat system is just a step forward, and a huge step, as much as i like (somehow ) DF as much as this is obvious. DF slaped a fps shooter system in a sword and board game and didn't tweaked the system much, their sprinting feature is beyound stupid, and dodging don't even work, plain and simple. GW2 have a lot of details that make it a lot better, first their aoe are properly made with circles, they have objects for healing you can drop on the floor for anyone to take them because aiming moving freinds on the batle to heal them is just blha, their dodging actually work, the UI seam a lot better, and the weapon/skill are dependant, which will ease by a lot the heavy need of macro in DF to even be able to fight properly. UI of DF is just encumbred with a zillion of skills making the control unbearable even for a vet, not even talking about a noob. DF simply is a pain all around and wasn't though very well, GW2 have a smooth combat system, its pretty obvious they have put a lot more effort in the conception of their system. The only real plus in DF is the engine, not the combat system. If you want to talk about a good fps sword and board combat system don't talk about DF, maybe talk about Mount&blade for example.
correct me if im wrong.. but isnt this type of combat almost identical to the type you get in swg right now? moving combat, ranged weapons, melee etc.. about the only difference im seeing is that in swg you get the choice of auto target or aimed target.. and the nge was definitely not 'kicking combat up a notch' in swg either.. seems to me, that gw2 is gw1's nge.. better hope its more popular than the nge was for swg..