I think the issue is that we have too much bleed over from one style of game play into another. Some players revel in the immersion and depth a game's story elements provide. Why are we here? Why are we fighting? What is our goal? Other players look to game just to mash some buttons for a few hours and then leave. They don't care the who's and why's just the what. More MMOs need to be made that cater to the latter group. No story, no reason, no character development or backstory. Just log in, give them a sword or a gun or whatever and let them have at the bad guys for a while.
Now, with that said, then this would open op MMORPGs... being... RPGs, to continue to explore the vast worlds and histories they can offer. To answer the OPs question yes, story is absolutely necessary in an MMORPG. Is it necessary in an online game? No. Look at the hordes of Call of Duty and Halo players. Just let some developers make more pew pew online games for that group of players. The issue we are having at this point in the development of online gaming as a media is that too many console style gamers are walking into the house of RPG and then complaining about the decor. If you don't like story, stop playing RPGs. How would they like it if all the RPG players starting posting on the Call of Duty forums about how there should be more times in the battle where everything stops to explore the feelings and motivations of each of the characters and what ramifications all this fighting might have down the road?
Console, FPS, action, quick fix gamers are not bad, they are not wrong, they are not horrible people, they are gamers just like us. They are simply in the wrong area for what they are looking for 'right now'. I am sure in time more MMO style games will arrise that offer zero story 100% carnage and mayhem. Some have tried. Look at Earthrise. Too bad all the carnage and mayhem was restricted to the quality of their launch but that is more in line with what I believe these gamers 'should' be looking for. Don't try and change another player's game as you are just ruin something that was already right for someone else. Rather look to create something else more to your liking and others of similar mentality will follow.
Great topic. Personally I'm on the side of wanting a story... I played D&D 30+ years ago, and we always had a DM holding our hand through the story. What we chose to do within that story was up to us of course, but he kept us on track, so to speak. That's an RPG to me.
As for the idea that you made up your own stories (i.e. in UO) - perhaps, but that's when the genre was young and you had no other choice. And back then, you ONLY had hard core gamers. In order to appeal to a broader market, however, I think you need to provide the story to the individuals. My wife, for instance, has never held any interest in the MMO's that I play. But having seen the cinematic from SW:TOR (which I've forced her to sit through!) for once she's finally showing interest. "Woah... that's pretty cool... it's like I'm part of a story?!..." were her exact words...
So is story "necessary"?... no... but will story help the genre expand and be consumed by more people that it has to date?... I think so, yes.
Do all MMORPGs need story? No, but I really appreciate it that some do have story and that some excell at story. When that story has variations based on choice, class, gender, or even simply what companion you have then I'm likely to play that 'playable novel' over and over and over again. I understand that not everyone feels that way, but I'm glad that a game like TOR is being made. Now do I feel that it should be copied as it is being? No, not really, especially when these copies are unlikely to have the same degree of professionalism that Bioware generally displays.
so all we need is challenging mechanics ,nifty tactics and skills(or not) working to interact...fighting over a pile of poo or a diamond of eternal power whatsoever without any story behind it. no knowledge needed, no history to be researched to give a meaning to what youre doing. 1 2 3 explanation , head dive into action ?
isnt that another sort of dumbing down?
Sandbox where you fight over a pile of poo? OMG, look what you did! How do I get this image out of my mind now?? Two Teams One Cup is pillaging my brain!!
Sandbox without a story is basically Massively Multiplayer Pong. I think *some* people are missing the fact that you don't have to take a break from the game to suffer through dialogue or story. The story *is* the game. You choose your dialogue choice and roll for a chance to get a cameo voiced line lol. And you're skills effect whether you can use a charisma line or a bullying strength based line or a knowledgeable intelligence based line. What you can ask, say, or demand is based on your stats and skills. That's part of the game.
I think MMO developers have largely lost sight of what it was that made massively multiplayer games so revolutionary to begin with. Back in the old days, standard multiplayer games, such as Diablo, were played purely on a small-scale level, on private instanced servers. When MMOs came along, they changed all that.
The first MMOs were basically giant virtual worlds - worlds that never slept, and had no real barriers separating one player from another. The point of these worlds wasn't to have a large playerbase of paying players, each within their own individual and self contained vacuums - but rather, the point was to have a massive community where the player's actions as an individual had an impact on the world as a whole. In short, early MMOs were all about the butterfly effect, and that's just something missing entirely from modern "themepark" MMOs.
Because of this change, developers are using storytelling as a crutch, because they wouldn't be able to stand up otherwise. It's a replacement for playerdriven content, and a substitute for the wonderful butterfly effect that "real" MMOs should always strive to promote.
And, as far as I'm concerned, it's what holds the MMO genre back from becoming something truly great.
Content Writer for RTSGuru.com And overall bitter old man.
i vote no, because so few people know the difference between "story" and "setting". generally, a crossover concept, "lore", is used in place of both. either way, i find such is only used to PREVENT player freedoms, which leads to unsolvable conflicts in terms of lore interpretations. having a story in a MMO feels to me like letting me play an irrelevant character in a movie or tv show i like. who cares about ensign toast on star trek? that is ultamately what most story driven mmo's give player roles.
i think a game that is designed with a multi player focus should not enforce story. setting, yes. in more story driven MMO's, the plot is static and becomes restricting, and quickly boring. leaving as much up to the players to create as possible is the best path to a thriving setting.
the unpredicable realities of open world player conflict is so much more thrilling than reading premade text that never changes and that is the same for everyone (including ALL future characters i make) interacting with humans is so much more nuanced and enteraining. im only proud of achievments that ran the risk of failure and loss, not just endless repeatability if i dont get it right the first time. playing a story driven MMO twice is about as much fun as copying out someone elses novel.
I don't think MMORPGs need a story, in that quests lead you on a rails for bits of a storyline. MMORPGs definitely need lore just to give the world and players context but story as I have seen it in games thus far is usually shallow and contrived.
I would prefer to see "story" fleshed out in the gameplay with story arcs that occur as the game ages rather than as the player levels.
not sure what the letters mean other than what i have always assumed..
Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game
Role Playing Game = long (to an extent) involved story lines.
atleast in my experience..
if it doesn have a long drawn out or involved interactive storyline then it is not an RPG it then becomes:
Massive Multiplayer Online Game
i hear RPG i immediately think old fashioned pen and paper D&D, AD&D, Alternity, Vampire: the Masquerade. and so on..
storylines, choices, characters you rolled decided looks, choices, mannerisms, choices, and so on. your choices affected the outcomes you walked outside of the DM/GM rules game didnt stop he would wing it while tryin to get you back on the main story line.. you didnt run into an invisible wall of no go there or game coming to a complete end because you refused to do a quest a certain way..
it seems anymore every game and its knock off wants to claim an rpg title yet they all fail in my opinion..
until a game comes out that can handle any players direction decision that they choose to go whether good, bad, or straddling the center then really there arent any actual RPG's out there.. just everyday run of the mill
A friend of mine played both Morrowind and Oblvion and never finished either of the story lines. Just explored and had fun.
If one wants story then "yes". If not then "no".
to that point, the whole "we want to make our own stories" doesn't hold up because most player don't make their own stories. It's all anecdotes.
role players make their own story. but I highly doubt most people screaming to "make their own stories" are actually doing so.
I agree with you to a point. I think it comes down to how well, how willing, or how often players decide to use their imagination. The stories could be completely in their own head, without anyone else knowing about it and still be a 'personal story'. Whether or not you live out that story for others to see is irrelevant. One of the reasons I love games like Fallout 3 and Oblivion, is because I can use my imagination to roleplay whatever kind of character I want, and use that to define my own storylines regardless of the static content. I can even bend the static content to my own will much of the time.
I'm not saying that players can't do that in multiplayer games, but unless you want to look stupid, you have to find others who are willing to collaberate and share those stories, which is becoming ever more impossible, in my experience. There are not many multiplayer games with such freedom, and even less players who would find that appealing. You can pretend to kill all the guards in a town, I suppose, but they are still there. There is no real impact. And I guess there doesn't really have to be, but I suppose I just expect more from a multiplayer game, and generally get much less than the single-player games I mentioned above.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
mmo story is sort of equivelent to real life identity. who would be who they are if they were the last person in the world? how we interact with others defines our personality.
in story driven mmo's, ALL players are forced to more or less behave in EXACTLY the same way. in a game with no story or lore, one guild could behave like a tribe of cannibals, another guild could behave like a knightly kingdom, another guild could behave like stranded aliens, or pirates, or chefs, or explorers, or merchants, or hunters, or slavers, and on and on. interaction between players, be they solo or guilds, becomes about actual events that have taken place. you dont fight the next guild over because you are orcs and they are elves, but because you actually compete over local spawns and resources.
in the open story mmo's i have played, the most thrilling arches were around real betrayals. ie, when a chunk of the guild steals all the saved gold, and runs out to build their own city. thats grounds for real war. in story driven mmo's everything can be explained by saying "long ago, blah blah blah".its meaningless and no one really connects with it.
in story driven mmo's, you basically know everything that can happen, so long as you know the setting and are semi familiar with common fantasy tools. stories are throw backs to finite rental games, made to appeal to a mass audience in order to make a quick buck.
imaging watching a football game where one side was destined to win because they were adhering to lore. how stupid and boring would that be. i think alot of people have just never truly played an open game, so its all just faulty logic and hypothetical problems they imagin.
No, Story is not necessary for MMORPGs. Small tales here and there for background on what you're doing and why is nice, but major story lines are just a bonus. The big draw to MMORPGs is the character customization and progression. The problem with MMOs now is that the progression is too linear. You do this, then this, then this, then this. We need more "or" in that sentence. Do this, or this or this or this in order to progress. Let the player decide their chain of progression. Also, the gear is predetermined. That's a major mistake because everyone is after the same items and they all tend to look the same once they get them. You lose your character identity this way.
It really seems simple to create a unique MMO experience, but developers are just too stupid to think about it, or they're too chicken to try it.
No story isnt necessary but it does add a nice touch. If its done right. Meaning there are choices that affect the outcome of your story.
When u add choises into story it does change it not every character will have the exact same outcome or cut scene. Truth is i perfer a linear experiance im not a sandbox fan.
Nothing against sandbox fans thats yoru thing its not mine. I like to have objectives and know where to go . Im like a grunt soldier i need my orders to be effective.
Sandbox players like anarcy i dont. in my game. Each has its own advantages. . The reason devs make themeparks over sandboxes is the audience is much larger for themeparks then sandboxes.
That said story has never been doen right in mmo's . If bioware does it well and pulls off what they want that may change.
I'm a fan of story, but the big problem I see with voicing over all the games quests is that it pretty much forces new content to come slowly in expansions. I'd much rather see generated or semi-generated content that has the cinematic features and no voice overs, so long as that content could be easily plugged in and fresh.
I'm a fan of story, but the big problem I see with voicing over all the games quests is that it pretty much forces new content to come slowly in expansions. I'd much rather see generated or semi-generated content that has the cinematic features and no voice overs, so long as that content could be easily plugged in and fresh.
I've seen examples of games with systems like this.
None with extensive Voice Acting.
I guess for curiosities sake alone, i'm in favor of it.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." - John Galt
If I can create my own character, I make up a story for myself. Like with city of heroes, you arent limited to one theme. You can be a regular super hero, a ninja assassin, a knight, a mob boss, a wizard, a naked pirate that summons ninjas etc. I could ignore the game lore and be who I wanted to be.
When a game is stuck with one game (99.9% of them) then a story is probably needed while I can at least maintain a personality for my character even though I cant make choices for him, which are stupid and pointless anyway because I'm not blind to the illusion of choice *cough*bioware*cough*
Trouble is, players don't seem to be too great at creating their own stories today, one of my worst memories from WoW was the guild I was in going from a fun and story-driven RP guild under a very talented GM who involved everyone in a storylineof his creation, to a raiding guild where all that mattered was your gear and how many hours a week you could put in on progression. It happened because the GM took a break from WoW and it made the game so much less fun for me.
Based on the fact that I loved his events and following his story through the game and the guild forums, I'm pretty sure that any game that gives me a story like that of my own will hook me. It's all very well to say give us the tools and we'll make out own story, but gems like that GM are few and far between these days.
I loved Fallen Earth for its story too - the quirky NPC dialogue and the questline that spans the first three sectors. It fed me lore and context and allowed me to make my own space within it.
I'm looking forward to SW:TOR because I really do think that, for me, the story will make a difference. If I want to know what happens next, I will keep playing, and if I get curious enough about what other class storylines are like, I will roll alts. I also know that this is just my opinion but I think even those who are story-phobic are going to get bludgeoned with it with at least three upcoming triple A MMOs having a big focus on in.
Story can be open-ended or close-ended. When it's close-ended the quality of the vision of the developer needs to be higher and directly impact the player's game experience, more convincingly. When it's open-ended, the player's actions need to have CONSEQUENCES which cause story indirectly to be created.
Boring Story in Themepark: eg My Dwarf in WAR got to Badlands and looked at the empty mess of that zone in that game, and loneliness and emptiness filled his soul; he could no longer hear the ancestor's voices in his heart. He took one last almight swig of his ale flaggon and with a heavy heart pitched himself off the highest canyon ledge in that empty & boring land... never to set foot again in that game, but knowing that at the final end the final chapter of his story was written by him in his own blood... the end.
Promising Story in Sandbox: eg Outer Empires: Running a few missions between planets, trading some goods and exploring the star systems and saving up for a more efficient craft and possible exploration of a free system to colonize and set up a small trading empire and come into conflict with some player-run factions. Already keepiing an xls of goods traded and distances between planets and fuel costs etc, the story is just beginning...
Is story necessary? No. However, context is necessary and one of the best ways to do that is through story.
Well-said! Notice how he said 'one of the best ways', meaning not the only one. There are many games that are heavily driven by gameplay and focus less on the story. I doubt many people that play LoL give a damn about the story, it's all about the gameplay. Mind you that's an RTS, but in my experience most people that play Lineage 2 don't know anything about the story either, save what they've seen from the pretty cut scenes.
"There's like...a girl...and she cries blood or something....and stuff"
Is probably something like the reply you're going to get if you ask for L2's storyline. Otherwise people are driven by competition, not the story.
I really don't feel story is necessary in an MMO. There are so many other elements to focus on, too many other things to achieve, and namely too many alts to create. I barely care about the story the first time around, I don't care AT ALL the second and third time. Hell I've played through City of Heroes' content dozens of times, over 4 years, and I still don't know what the hell is going on. I know absolutely nothing about any of the heroes or why anything happens. The fun for me? Getting new powers, trying new power combinations, getting large-scale raids together, fighting new bosses with their new challenges and new tactics necessary, decking out my character in purples, etc. The story? Don't care. Whenever there's a cutscene I practically fume at the ears at my inability to skip past it.
Context however, is important. But while story is a good way to deliver that, it's not the only way. Think of it this way; if there was no over-arching story, would the game be less worthwhile to play? Not necessarily. What if it worked like a sandbox, but played like a themepark? Played like WoW but let you make your own story, choose your own path, like a sandbox. I think that could work just as well as something driven by a storyline right from the beginning.
That said, I'm not knocking storyline. Guild Wars 2 is one of the first games where I actually do like and care about the lore. I think the reason for that however, is that the first Guild Wars offered up the story in such a palatable way; in short bursts. I wasn't constantly fed bucketloads of quest text, there were attractive cut scenes I could enjoy the first time and skip the next, and the story was weaved INTO THE GAMEPLAY rather than just have me kill 50 boars then stand in one spot for 5 minutes reading through paragraphs of text. It didn't feel as tedious, it felt fluid and part of the experience.
So clearly, if done well, storyline can be a wonderful thing to incorporate into a game. It should not however, lock people into a specific path, it shouldn't force its dribble down the players' throats, it shouldn't be the most important factor, it shouldn't be long and drawn out and it BETTER be really damn good. The problem is all of that is seldom the case, thus why I'd rather it just be skipped altogether.
Good point. It should also be pointed out that Lineage 2 was sort of a hybrid Sandbox / Themepark game. Lineage 2 was MUCH about crap pot one alliance was stiring or another. Most of the endgame content (battles over territory, resources, bragging rights) was largely player driven.
For example, the story of Sieghardt (L2 Server for you non-L2 folks) was much about the striff of Allaince A & Alliance B, while another server could have a completely different political and alliance makeup and chain of player lead events.
When the focus of the game is around the game generated story....then the experience from one server to the next will not be all that different.
I just find all the irony funny. We see MMORPGs coming full circle back to RPG content. How long till MMORPGs will become a personal instanced version of the world (phasing?) that you can invite "REAL ID like" friends to go questing & dungeon crawling in?
"But here’s the question: do we really need stories in our worlds? Aren’t we supposed to be the ones who make the stories?"
I respect your opinion, but i think you don't see some points. I don't think you did some research to make this post.
You don't work on the development emprise of the game you are playing. You cannot create your plannet, your gods, your enemies, your dungeons and your quests. You cannot control everything.
If you want to do that, go play Sim City, Second Life, The Sims, write a book, spent tons of money and develop a game, etc...
MMO = Massive Multiplayer Online. Imagine all these people playing good and creating the stories. It will become a mess.
RPG = Role-Playing Game. And here... you are not the master of the game. You are the player. So its not your job to create the story.
Some people are not creative. Some people like to see the creativness of others. And that where the game come in. We, since Atari and Mega Drive era, are palying someone elses storys. A pre-created world.
You REALLY need stories. You need a world. You need a start point. You need some ground to walk. You can't begin on the complete dark. On games, you can't begin with a paper and a pen.
The most important. We don't suppose to make our stories, we are supposed to make ours destinies.
The creators give me some storie, some world, and some other things. But what i do with MY char, its only by my hand. My destinie on the game, i will make.
Comments
I think the issue is that we have too much bleed over from one style of game play into another. Some players revel in the immersion and depth a game's story elements provide. Why are we here? Why are we fighting? What is our goal? Other players look to game just to mash some buttons for a few hours and then leave. They don't care the who's and why's just the what. More MMOs need to be made that cater to the latter group. No story, no reason, no character development or backstory. Just log in, give them a sword or a gun or whatever and let them have at the bad guys for a while.
Now, with that said, then this would open op MMORPGs... being... RPGs, to continue to explore the vast worlds and histories they can offer. To answer the OPs question yes, story is absolutely necessary in an MMORPG. Is it necessary in an online game? No. Look at the hordes of Call of Duty and Halo players. Just let some developers make more pew pew online games for that group of players. The issue we are having at this point in the development of online gaming as a media is that too many console style gamers are walking into the house of RPG and then complaining about the decor. If you don't like story, stop playing RPGs. How would they like it if all the RPG players starting posting on the Call of Duty forums about how there should be more times in the battle where everything stops to explore the feelings and motivations of each of the characters and what ramifications all this fighting might have down the road?
Console, FPS, action, quick fix gamers are not bad, they are not wrong, they are not horrible people, they are gamers just like us. They are simply in the wrong area for what they are looking for 'right now'. I am sure in time more MMO style games will arrise that offer zero story 100% carnage and mayhem. Some have tried. Look at Earthrise. Too bad all the carnage and mayhem was restricted to the quality of their launch but that is more in line with what I believe these gamers 'should' be looking for. Don't try and change another player's game as you are just ruin something that was already right for someone else. Rather look to create something else more to your liking and others of similar mentality will follow.
Great topic. Personally I'm on the side of wanting a story... I played D&D 30+ years ago, and we always had a DM holding our hand through the story. What we chose to do within that story was up to us of course, but he kept us on track, so to speak. That's an RPG to me.
As for the idea that you made up your own stories (i.e. in UO) - perhaps, but that's when the genre was young and you had no other choice. And back then, you ONLY had hard core gamers. In order to appeal to a broader market, however, I think you need to provide the story to the individuals. My wife, for instance, has never held any interest in the MMO's that I play. But having seen the cinematic from SW:TOR (which I've forced her to sit through!) for once she's finally showing interest. "Woah... that's pretty cool... it's like I'm part of a story?!..." were her exact words...
So is story "necessary"?... no... but will story help the genre expand and be consumed by more people that it has to date?... I think so, yes.
Do all MMORPGs need story? No, but I really appreciate it that some do have story and that some excell at story. When that story has variations based on choice, class, gender, or even simply what companion you have then I'm likely to play that 'playable novel' over and over and over again. I understand that not everyone feels that way, but I'm glad that a game like TOR is being made. Now do I feel that it should be copied as it is being? No, not really, especially when these copies are unlikely to have the same degree of professionalism that Bioware generally displays.
Sandbox where you fight over a pile of poo? OMG, look what you did! How do I get this image out of my mind now?? Two Teams One Cup is pillaging my brain!!
Sandbox without a story is basically Massively Multiplayer Pong. I think *some* people are missing the fact that you don't have to take a break from the game to suffer through dialogue or story. The story *is* the game. You choose your dialogue choice and roll for a chance to get a cameo voiced line lol. And you're skills effect whether you can use a charisma line or a bullying strength based line or a knowledgeable intelligence based line. What you can ask, say, or demand is based on your stats and skills. That's part of the game.
I think MMO developers have largely lost sight of what it was that made massively multiplayer games so revolutionary to begin with. Back in the old days, standard multiplayer games, such as Diablo, were played purely on a small-scale level, on private instanced servers. When MMOs came along, they changed all that.
The first MMOs were basically giant virtual worlds - worlds that never slept, and had no real barriers separating one player from another. The point of these worlds wasn't to have a large playerbase of paying players, each within their own individual and self contained vacuums - but rather, the point was to have a massive community where the player's actions as an individual had an impact on the world as a whole. In short, early MMOs were all about the butterfly effect, and that's just something missing entirely from modern "themepark" MMOs.
Because of this change, developers are using storytelling as a crutch, because they wouldn't be able to stand up otherwise. It's a replacement for playerdriven content, and a substitute for the wonderful butterfly effect that "real" MMOs should always strive to promote.
And, as far as I'm concerned, it's what holds the MMO genre back from becoming something truly great.
Content Writer for RTSGuru.com
And overall bitter old man.
yes it has to have a story behind it.
i vote no, because so few people know the difference between "story" and "setting". generally, a crossover concept, "lore", is used in place of both. either way, i find such is only used to PREVENT player freedoms, which leads to unsolvable conflicts in terms of lore interpretations. having a story in a MMO feels to me like letting me play an irrelevant character in a movie or tv show i like. who cares about ensign toast on star trek? that is ultamately what most story driven mmo's give player roles.
i think a game that is designed with a multi player focus should not enforce story. setting, yes. in more story driven MMO's, the plot is static and becomes restricting, and quickly boring. leaving as much up to the players to create as possible is the best path to a thriving setting.
the unpredicable realities of open world player conflict is so much more thrilling than reading premade text that never changes and that is the same for everyone (including ALL future characters i make) interacting with humans is so much more nuanced and enteraining. im only proud of achievments that ran the risk of failure and loss, not just endless repeatability if i dont get it right the first time. playing a story driven MMO twice is about as much fun as copying out someone elses novel.
I don't think MMORPGs need a story, in that quests lead you on a rails for bits of a storyline. MMORPGs definitely need lore just to give the world and players context but story as I have seen it in games thus far is usually shallow and contrived.
I would prefer to see "story" fleshed out in the gameplay with story arcs that occur as the game ages rather than as the player levels.
Story is only needed if one needs story.
A friend of mine played both Morrowind and Oblvion and never finished either of the story lines. Just explored and had fun.
If one wants story then "yes". If not then "no".
to that point, the whole "we want to make our own stories" doesn't hold up because most player don't make their own stories. It's all anecdotes.
role players make their own story. but I highly doubt most people screaming to "make their own stories" are actually doing so.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I mostly hate access to a fight being a result of a "on the rails" quest
I don't mind story / lore.. in fact i love it.... i usually end up doing every quest in a game i play no matter how trivial or stupid..
but the requirement for access type quests.. unless there is a solid reason (like missing expansion or w/e) seems dumb to me.
not sure what the letters mean other than what i have always assumed..
Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game
Role Playing Game = long (to an extent) involved story lines.
atleast in my experience..
if it doesn have a long drawn out or involved interactive storyline then it is not an RPG it then becomes:
Massive Multiplayer Online Game
i hear RPG i immediately think old fashioned pen and paper D&D, AD&D, Alternity, Vampire: the Masquerade. and so on..
storylines, choices, characters you rolled decided looks, choices, mannerisms, choices, and so on. your choices affected the outcomes you walked outside of the DM/GM rules game didnt stop he would wing it while tryin to get you back on the main story line.. you didnt run into an invisible wall of no go there or game coming to a complete end because you refused to do a quest a certain way..
it seems anymore every game and its knock off wants to claim an rpg title yet they all fail in my opinion..
until a game comes out that can handle any players direction decision that they choose to go whether good, bad, or straddling the center then really there arent any actual RPG's out there.. just everyday run of the mill
MMOG's
in my opinion anyways.
I agree with you to a point. I think it comes down to how well, how willing, or how often players decide to use their imagination. The stories could be completely in their own head, without anyone else knowing about it and still be a 'personal story'. Whether or not you live out that story for others to see is irrelevant. One of the reasons I love games like Fallout 3 and Oblivion, is because I can use my imagination to roleplay whatever kind of character I want, and use that to define my own storylines regardless of the static content. I can even bend the static content to my own will much of the time.
I'm not saying that players can't do that in multiplayer games, but unless you want to look stupid, you have to find others who are willing to collaberate and share those stories, which is becoming ever more impossible, in my experience. There are not many multiplayer games with such freedom, and even less players who would find that appealing. You can pretend to kill all the guards in a town, I suppose, but they are still there. There is no real impact. And I guess there doesn't really have to be, but I suppose I just expect more from a multiplayer game, and generally get much less than the single-player games I mentioned above.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
mmo story is sort of equivelent to real life identity. who would be who they are if they were the last person in the world? how we interact with others defines our personality.
in story driven mmo's, ALL players are forced to more or less behave in EXACTLY the same way. in a game with no story or lore, one guild could behave like a tribe of cannibals, another guild could behave like a knightly kingdom, another guild could behave like stranded aliens, or pirates, or chefs, or explorers, or merchants, or hunters, or slavers, and on and on. interaction between players, be they solo or guilds, becomes about actual events that have taken place. you dont fight the next guild over because you are orcs and they are elves, but because you actually compete over local spawns and resources.
in the open story mmo's i have played, the most thrilling arches were around real betrayals. ie, when a chunk of the guild steals all the saved gold, and runs out to build their own city. thats grounds for real war. in story driven mmo's everything can be explained by saying "long ago, blah blah blah".its meaningless and no one really connects with it.
in story driven mmo's, you basically know everything that can happen, so long as you know the setting and are semi familiar with common fantasy tools. stories are throw backs to finite rental games, made to appeal to a mass audience in order to make a quick buck.
imaging watching a football game where one side was destined to win because they were adhering to lore. how stupid and boring would that be. i think alot of people have just never truly played an open game, so its all just faulty logic and hypothetical problems they imagin.
No, Story is not necessary for MMORPGs. Small tales here and there for background on what you're doing and why is nice, but major story lines are just a bonus. The big draw to MMORPGs is the character customization and progression. The problem with MMOs now is that the progression is too linear. You do this, then this, then this, then this. We need more "or" in that sentence. Do this, or this or this or this in order to progress. Let the player decide their chain of progression. Also, the gear is predetermined. That's a major mistake because everyone is after the same items and they all tend to look the same once they get them. You lose your character identity this way.
It really seems simple to create a unique MMO experience, but developers are just too stupid to think about it, or they're too chicken to try it.
No story isnt necessary but it does add a nice touch. If its done right. Meaning there are choices that affect the outcome of your story.
When u add choises into story it does change it not every character will have the exact same outcome or cut scene. Truth is i perfer a linear experiance im not a sandbox fan.
Nothing against sandbox fans thats yoru thing its not mine. I like to have objectives and know where to go . Im like a grunt soldier i need my orders to be effective.
Sandbox players like anarcy i dont. in my game. Each has its own advantages. . The reason devs make themeparks over sandboxes is the audience is much larger for themeparks then sandboxes.
That said story has never been doen right in mmo's . If bioware does it well and pulls off what they want that may change.
" plates of cookies laid out with warm milk before bedtime." Is this a correct metaphor?
I'm a fan of story, but the big problem I see with voicing over all the games quests is that it pretty much forces new content to come slowly in expansions. I'd much rather see generated or semi-generated content that has the cinematic features and no voice overs, so long as that content could be easily plugged in and fresh.
https://www.therepopulation.com - Sci Fi Sandbox.
I've seen examples of games with systems like this.
None with extensive Voice Acting.
I guess for curiosities sake alone, i'm in favor of it.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
- John Galt
If I can create my own character, I make up a story for myself. Like with city of heroes, you arent limited to one theme. You can be a regular super hero, a ninja assassin, a knight, a mob boss, a wizard, a naked pirate that summons ninjas etc. I could ignore the game lore and be who I wanted to be.
When a game is stuck with one game (99.9% of them) then a story is probably needed while I can at least maintain a personality for my character even though I cant make choices for him, which are stupid and pointless anyway because I'm not blind to the illusion of choice *cough*bioware*cough*
Trouble is, players don't seem to be too great at creating their own stories today, one of my worst memories from WoW was the guild I was in going from a fun and story-driven RP guild under a very talented GM who involved everyone in a storylineof his creation, to a raiding guild where all that mattered was your gear and how many hours a week you could put in on progression. It happened because the GM took a break from WoW and it made the game so much less fun for me.
Based on the fact that I loved his events and following his story through the game and the guild forums, I'm pretty sure that any game that gives me a story like that of my own will hook me. It's all very well to say give us the tools and we'll make out own story, but gems like that GM are few and far between these days.
I loved Fallen Earth for its story too - the quirky NPC dialogue and the questline that spans the first three sectors. It fed me lore and context and allowed me to make my own space within it.
I'm looking forward to SW:TOR because I really do think that, for me, the story will make a difference. If I want to know what happens next, I will keep playing, and if I get curious enough about what other class storylines are like, I will roll alts. I also know that this is just my opinion but I think even those who are story-phobic are going to get bludgeoned with it with at least three upcoming triple A MMOs having a big focus on in.
Story is the most important least important thing.
Question itself is stupid.
Story can be open-ended or close-ended. When it's close-ended the quality of the vision of the developer needs to be higher and directly impact the player's game experience, more convincingly. When it's open-ended, the player's actions need to have CONSEQUENCES which cause story indirectly to be created.
Boring Story in Themepark: eg My Dwarf in WAR got to Badlands and looked at the empty mess of that zone in that game, and loneliness and emptiness filled his soul; he could no longer hear the ancestor's voices in his heart. He took one last almight swig of his ale flaggon and with a heavy heart pitched himself off the highest canyon ledge in that empty & boring land... never to set foot again in that game, but knowing that at the final end the final chapter of his story was written by him in his own blood... the end.
Promising Story in Sandbox: eg Outer Empires: Running a few missions between planets, trading some goods and exploring the star systems and saving up for a more efficient craft and possible exploration of a free system to colonize and set up a small trading empire and come into conflict with some player-run factions. Already keepiing an xls of goods traded and distances between planets and fuel costs etc, the story is just beginning...
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Good point. It should also be pointed out that Lineage 2 was sort of a hybrid Sandbox / Themepark game. Lineage 2 was MUCH about crap pot one alliance was stiring or another. Most of the endgame content (battles over territory, resources, bragging rights) was largely player driven.
For example, the story of Sieghardt (L2 Server for you non-L2 folks) was much about the striff of Allaince A & Alliance B, while another server could have a completely different political and alliance makeup and chain of player lead events.
When the focus of the game is around the game generated story....then the experience from one server to the next will not be all that different.
I just find all the irony funny. We see MMORPGs coming full circle back to RPG content. How long till MMORPGs will become a personal instanced version of the world (phasing?) that you can invite "REAL ID like" friends to go questing & dungeon crawling in?
"But here’s the question: do we really need stories in our worlds? Aren’t we supposed to be the ones who make the stories?"
I respect your opinion, but i think you don't see some points. I don't think you did some research to make this post.
You don't work on the development emprise of the game you are playing. You cannot create your plannet, your gods, your enemies, your dungeons and your quests. You cannot control everything.
If you want to do that, go play Sim City, Second Life, The Sims, write a book, spent tons of money and develop a game, etc...
MMO = Massive Multiplayer Online. Imagine all these people playing good and creating the stories. It will become a mess.
RPG = Role-Playing Game. And here... you are not the master of the game. You are the player. So its not your job to create the story.
Some people are not creative. Some people like to see the creativness of others. And that where the game come in. We, since Atari and Mega Drive era, are palying someone elses storys. A pre-created world.
You REALLY need stories. You need a world. You need a start point. You need some ground to walk. You can't begin on the complete dark. On games, you can't begin with a paper and a pen.
The most important. We don't suppose to make our stories, we are supposed to make ours destinies.
The creators give me some storie, some world, and some other things. But what i do with MY char, its only by my hand. My destinie on the game, i will make.
So i think, YES, We Need Story.