MO Developer Update 20 July

Rohn

Black Opal, SV Community Manager, posted an update today on the status of the game, and priorities of work.  Some good information here:

 

Today, 18:26	#1 (permalink)
Black Opal Community Manager     Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 535 Rep Power: 15	Developer Community Update As people have noticed, things have been rather quiet, and questions were starting to be asked of what we are doing. I have sat down and talked with the development team in regards to what is their current focus, and what they will be working on in the near future. Right now there have been a lot of concerns about the guild system, while it was re-written for Dawn, the database and saving of guild statistics was not handled correctly, and has been rebuilt. Currently it's on the test client being finalized, and once released it should mark the end of guilds being an issue. Since Alchemy is directly based on the Cooking system, it's also been implemented on the test client, as a free bonus. It introduced no new technical implementations, so it was easy to get this system in. With the cooking system being stable, this will also translate to Alchemy. However naturally we are expecting small bugs. The current horse prediction system doesn't work because of the dynamic scaling of mount speed. We are also moving the prediction solution to have a different model for players and mounts. In order for the prediction system on mounts to work correctly Sebastian and Fredrik have to coordinate and account for the equations and formals used in each system. Currently without a doubt, the focus for the entire team is to get all of the bugs fixed. This means that the Bow Strength bug, and others are what we are working on right now. Until they are out of the way we can't move on forward to work on the AI, and other systems. With the looks that a server war is starting, we are also bumping up the priority of getting "FAILED Hits" fixed, as it occurs primarily in large battles. As mentioned in the past, we are going to rebuild the AI and use the Unreal Engine 3 AI package; leveraging our license. We want to be sure we move in the correct direction and get a very stable and robust AI. This is a large project, and would take several weeks at minimum to complete. However the UE3 AI Package is "Battle Tested", and it will allow us to make noticeable progress in small time scales. Any definitive fixes on Pets, or NPC's would depend on the completion of this rebuild. The main issue right now is that each area is technically different from another, therefore we have to prioritize what needs to be fixed first, also the cost and time investment of fixing one thing might pale in comparison to another. So this all factors in to create internal priority lists. In this regard I would also like to ask the community to say what they consider to be the highest priority. So while we can start working on AI right away, it will only be at the cost of other things. __________________ Share MO with others Opal Mini Tracker

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/64621-developer-community-update.html#post1180695

 

Along with the fixes, it appears Alchemy will be implemented soon.

Slapshot1188

Originally posted by Rohn

 

Today, 18:26	#1 (permalink)
Black Opal Community Manager     Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 535 Rep Power: 15	Developer Community Update  In this regard I would also like to ask the community to say what they consider to be the highest priority. So while we can start working on AI right away, it will only be at the cost of other things. __________________ Share MO with others Opal Mini Tracker

.

  

And THIS dear friends is really one of the core issues.  There is apparently no design plan.. no over arching-leadership, but rather a community poll.   This is why there are a huge number of "placeholder" features or partially implemented ones.  This is why a huge amount of the items that get listed on the "Working On" updates never actually see the light of day.

 

Then item #2...Seriously.. how many times were we told that AI was DONE?   It was just waiting for NavMesh.. I believe we were told that the AI was all set but was basicly "blind" but it would be pretty easy to implement...  Now we are told that there is NO AI done and it will have to be created from scratch with the UE3 tools....

 

Wow...   

Rohn

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

And THIS dear friends is really one of the core issues.  There is apparently no design plan.. no over arching-leadership, but rather a community poll.   This is why there are a huge number of "placeholder" features or partially implemented ones.  This is why a huge amount of the items that get listed on the "Working On" updates never actually see the light of day.

 

For anyone that actually reads the statement, they do have an internal priority list.  It's been stated many, many times that the AI was at the top of the post-Dawn list of things to improve, and they appear to be continuing with that train of thought.  As a player, I'd agree that it's one of the most important items that they should be working on.

They do, however, also attempt to listen to their community as well, which isn't exactly a cardinal sin in my book.

Moreplex

This just shows that the developing process is Henrik blindfolded throwing darts at a dart board.  And yes I remember them saying AI was done and they were waiting for EPIC to provide navmesh.  So what is the excuse now?

 

Well goodluck on getting the new AI there are 11 pages of bugs that need to get fixed.

Moreplex

The players actually started a list of priorities SV should take with all the broken/turned off systems in the game.  here is the thread.

 

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/64628-developer-community-update-discussion.html

 

The best part of the thread is the Lead Mod (Kootenay)  Showing how out of touch with the game or how rabid fanboyism really goes.  House chest were brought up needing a fix.  When they "fixed" house chests a couple weeks ago it deleted or froze a lot of people's items in the chests.  Basically putting a lot of guilds at a stand still making and producing items.  His response was they are fixed.

 

Today, 04:28	#4 (permalink)
kootenay Lead Community Moderator     Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Canada Rep Power: 15	House chests were fixed awhile ago. And the issue with some of the PvP issues getting fixed first is due to the fact that people don't like dieing due to a bug. Like the getting hit by FAILED is when a player doesn't seem to be loaded on your client and is hitting you. __________________

When the reality is they were broke even more. 

 

Here is some of the reponses to players to him.

Kuroi Senior Member     Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Italy, Naples Age: 23 Rep Power: 3

Quote: Originally Posted by kootenay  House chests were fixed awhile ago. Quote: Originally Posted by Black Opal  Chests are also being tested on the test server. Quote: Originally Posted by Mauzi  Lol Koot, this is more than funny. Do I have to transfer my pre-Dawn T1 house to you to verify that the chest isn't working just to stop such wrong claims and getting SV to work on houses again ? Quote: Originally Posted by Aezreal  You sir are either a troll, or clueless. Both not fiting your station.

ltank

Since people keep mentioning it, can they link to a post where the devs say that AI was fully done? Thanks.

Slapshot1188

Originally posted by ltank

Since people keep mentioning it, can they link to a post where the devs say that AI was fully done? Thanks.

 Here is just a quick scan of the HoC logs (Prior to Aug 2010 not available). I am sure there are other posts and statement as well:

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/51736-house-commons-chat-log-aug-12th.html

 

<@Anubis>; [Myrm]ThaBadMan> Ok here we go, When will we see epic mobs like the dragon and the fire golem in game?



<@Henrik>; This Monday we will add an important system, which is one req for our epic mobs, You will see a boss added on monday which should be somewhat interesting

<@Henrik>; As you may know already we do have some issues with our AI/Navmesh system which makes our creatures blind in the world, however they are very complexed

<@Henrik>; But without eyes they act dumb

<@Henrik>; and also able to hit you invis and not keep track on what level they are on in caves for instance, you have surely experienced this in a way or another

<@Henrik>; Epic Games China is working on this important system, which is the key for our AI to work as intended

<@Henrik>; As you can understand thats also a key to be able to let our Epics to be AI controlled, and not only Dev controlled.

<@Henrik>; However you will soon see *something* in the world, to start getting an idea on what epics could be about

<@Henrik>; and like I said, the monday patch will give you something interesting to counter, which we also test some epic cases. so there should be some interesting pve event

<@Henrik>; that is built in mind with our current AI system



<@Anubis>; Mojoz: Hey. We've all heard about the "epic" epic patch that is supposed to be coming soon, and all the features that people want to come with it. Will we be seeing improvements immediately after the patch is applied, or will it take time (for example two weeks after the patch) to see UO style inventory , high res textures etc?



<@Henrik>; ok, so what you will experience, or should from day one is, a proper AI navigation and reaction, improved performance overall with shadows enabled, some eye candy effects, and possible an upgrade on our trees/vegitation

<@Henrik>; Hopefully shortly after, we will be able to patch flash content, as ex. UO inventory and lots of other things such as board games, flashy magic schools etc. not as in flashy colors that much but functions.

(Note the date of this promise.. almost a year ago... "shortly... UO inventory, magic schools..)

 

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/53568-house-commons-chat-log-sept-17th.html

<@Anubis>; 4. <[WSX]Thorpey_Basillus> How long after the Epic patch can we expect to be seeing Nav Mesh?

<@HenrikNystrom>; We will use navmesh with the epic patch, we are testing it now, but we need more time before we can fully use it. We had navmesh in our current build, but its not being used properly by our AI because of issues in the network solution

<@HenrikNystrom>; So as it looks now, we will have navmesh in the world along with the epic patch, and if things goes as planned, our AI will finally be able to use it like they should.

---------------

See... the AI was all set.. it just needed "Navmesh"...  guess not.





 

 

Slapshot1188

Some more links found with a simple search for Navmesh (Henrik Nystrom):

 

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/52674-update-2010-08-30-a.html

Post says that the patch going in tomorrow (8/31/2010) contained "proper AI"

 

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/54092-patch-notes-v-1-3-0-0-new-build-release.html

Another post a few months later saying that THIS time the navmesh was really, really going in and would fix the AI

 

Moreplex

Originally posted by ltank

Since people keep mentioning it, can they link to a post where the devs say that AI was fully done? Thanks.

LOL.  Come on man you have been playing the game a while there is a long list of features Henrik said was done and ready to go in but is waiting for this or that.  Or features they said they were working on a year to 6 months ago that fell off the list.  Take the rosie reds off.  Problem is that Henrik likes to talk a lot and it is all in the Dev tracker.  Tindrem on release anyone?

HerculesSAS

I am amazed that the community, despite being able to LOOK AT THE LIES, continues to defy their own logic and believe this used car salesman.

 

Henrik is an incompetent, unethical, liar, cheat, and thief. And for people to continue to support him in hopes that he might make "the best game ever" is laughable at best, and honestly quite sad.

 

That said, he has helped to open the door to many people who can lie about ideas and take people's money by preying on hopes of making that "ultimate sandbox game". So to those people who continue to support him, thank yourselves for every liar and crook that comes along from here on out, because you set a precedence that shows that you're willing to give your money just in the HOPE that somebody will make your game.

deathshroud

You know full well slapshot that it has been stated hundreds of times that they are a small team, with a low budget, making an ambitious project. It was even stated on the buy screen in beta. Does henrik lie? somtimes, are his statements sometimes exaggerated? yep. Is he all that different from any other game rep? Nope. Come to think of it just yesterday i watch an interview with the guys behind planetside2 claiming it was a sandbox, turns out you can customise your weapons slightly. Not a sandbox at all but still its jsut an example of how they completely blow their own game mechanics out of proportion in order to sell more games. The good thing here is that the devs try to listen to what we want and what should be prioritised regardless.

Slapshot1188

Originally posted by deathshroud

You know full well slapshot that it has been stated hundreds of times that they are a small team, with a low budget, making an ambitious project..

 #8 applies perfectly

http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/feature/3949/page/1

HanoverZ

Originally posted by HerculesSAS

I am amazed that the community, despite being able to LOOK AT THE LIES, continues to defy their own logic and believe this used car salesman.

 

Henrik is an incompetent, unethical, liar, cheat, and thief. And for people to continue to support him in hopes that he might make "the best game ever" is laughable at best, and honestly quite sad.

 

That said, he has helped to open the door to many people who can lie about ideas and take people's money by preying on hopes of making that "ultimate sandbox game". So to those people who continue to support him, thank yourselves for every liar and crook that comes along from here on out, because you set a precedence that shows that you're willing to give your money just in the HOPE that somebody will make your game.

 

 SV has duplicated the same practices used by Farlan/NP3 - "Dark and Light" years earlier, seems nothing was learned from that either.

 

 

Back on Topic: How can SV be so oblivious to the state of the game and the pulse of the player base. (given its very limited size)

Moreplex

They started a massive poll to decide what SV will work on next.

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/64635-community-priority-list.html

 

It is pretty funny that SV does not know what is needed to make people sub to the game.  But one player did sum up the MO experience.

 

Yesterday, 18:35

#10 (permalink)

Xyxyxy Junior Member   Join Date: Mar 2011 Rep Power: 1

Starvault should try and look at the game from the perspctive of the newcomer. Let's presume I'm a new player. I start the trial and i'm ready to start the game. Steps : 1. I create the character but I can't start in the village I selected or save. I have to restart the character creation process to make it work (that if I even bother offering a second chance) 2. I'm in the game and I go hunt some pigs. I get attacked by an invisible pig and die / barely escape. Or, i'm walking outside and I see a mounted warrior and it's warping / bad animations. 3. I am fighting and I try to kill someone near a node line but he is taking no damage, while I'm getting my ass kicked (I leave the game and never return) 4. I pick some loot of the ground and I'm desync for 10 seconds at least. In mean time I'm a sitting duck for everyone else. 5. Broken prediction system ,with people teleporting, being in other places than what I see. All around PvP brakes more to who knows most bugs and glitches and not who has the most skill. 6. Terrible horse animations, camera getting stuck somewhere over the right shoulder. 7. Not able to see my weapon when switching from bow to melee weapon. 8. Invisible characters when trying to login at a second or third try after you crashed in the game. 9. Huge loss of performance for each new nodeline crossed (which explains the loss of fps as you travel along the map). 10. Massive number of handle hits with axes and maces (WTF ??) . 11. Broken NPC vendors because of the overwhelming sell of items. 12. Broken beast spawns that are fixed only at reset. 13. Very easily exploitable flagging system which usualy is in the disatvantage of the new / un-aware players. Starvault, new players don't care what and how much content awaits them as long that bugs like this exist. Look at the comments and discussions regarding new MMORPG's that are launch and are not polished. Everyone hates bugs like these. Only a handful of people accept them and support you.  Adding better AI, UI or content will get you an X number of new players, but polished core features will get you with twice that amount. As long this is a paid product people care about quallity. The golden rule is that the first impression counts, and right now the game doesn't make a very good first impression. Try better. __________________

 

 

I would also add to the list real damn loot if an Orc is hitting me and he has a weapon and armor he should drop it.  No one wants to play Big Game hunter Online and only get carcasses.

 

One thing to add everyone keeps saying there is a "healthy pop" well the fanboys do.  Over the past couple weks there has been some major polss put out and they barely get over 100 seperate people to vote on them.  Now remember MO is a game where you basically have to go to the website to trade or get ingame info especially for the new player.

DreCat11

Game is a joke,

Corrupt Mods,

Hackers,

Dupes,

Bugs

Exploits

Cmon, the list never ends,

Time to close up shop SV

osmunda

Originally posted by HanoverZ

I can deal with bad games, its the use of SHILLs that's hard to stomach.  

Shill:

2.

a person who publicizes or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty.

 

Shill typically refers to someone who purposely gives onlookers the impression that he or she is an enthusiastic independent customer of a seller (or marketer of ideas) that he or she is secretly working for. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

Unless you are claiming that some og the posters here are "secretly working for" Starvault the difference between shill, fan, supporter, etc is entirely a matter of opinion.

Same goes for the terms critic, complainer, mud-slinger, nit picker, back seat driver, etc.

Please give a little more thought before throwing out perjorative terms (unless you really are trying to say some people here secretly work for SV).

P.s. Hercules, your absolutely right !!!11!!1!  Henrick isn't just wrong sometimes, he is actually the inspiration and precedent  " for every liar and crook that comes along from here on out". Sort of a latter day Cain.  *sarcasm off*   Hyperbole much?

osmunda

 

 

Today, 18:26	#1 (permalink)
Black Opal Community Manager     Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 535 Rep Power: 15	Developer Community Update As people have noticed, things have been rather quiet, and questions were starting to be asked of what we are doing. I have sat down and talked with the development team in regards to what is their current focus, and what they will be working on in the near future. Right now there have been a lot of concerns about the guild system, while it was re-written for Dawn, the database and saving of guild statistics was not handled correctly, and has been rebuilt. Currently it's on the test client being finalized, and once released it should mark the end of guilds being an issue. Since Alchemy is directly based on the Cooking system, it's also been implemented on the test client, as a free bonus. It introduced no new technical implementations, so it was easy to get this system in. With the cooking system being stable, this will also translate to Alchemy. However naturally we are expecting small bugs. The current horse prediction system doesn't work because of the dynamic scaling of mount speed. We are also moving the prediction solution to have a different model for players and mounts. In order for the prediction system on mounts to work correctly Sebastian and Fredrik have to coordinate and account for the equations and formals used in each system. Currently without a doubt, the focus for the entire team is to get all of the bugs fixed. This means that the Bow Strength bug, and others are what we are working on right now. Until they are out of the way we can't move on forward to work on the AI, and other systems. With the looks that a server war is starting, we are also bumping up the priority of getting "FAILED Hits" fixed, as it occurs primarily in large battles. As mentioned in the past, we are going to rebuild the AI and use the Unreal Engine 3 AI package; leveraging our license. We want to be sure we move in the correct direction and get a very stable and robust AI. This is a large project, and would take several weeks at minimum to complete. However the UE3 AI Package is "Battle Tested", and it will allow us to make noticeable progress in small time scales. Any definitive fixes on Pets, or NPC's would depend on the completion of this rebuild. The main issue right now is that each area is technically different from another, therefore we have to prioritize what needs to be fixed first, also the cost and time investment of fixing one thing might pale in comparison to another. So this all factors in to create internal priority lists. In this regard I would also like to ask the community to say what they consider to be the highest priority. So while we can start working on AI right away, it will only be at the cost of other things. __________________ Share MO with others     Opal Mini Tracker

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/64621-developer-community-update.html#post1180695

Just to restate the actual topic.

HanoverZ

Originally posted by osmunda

Originally posted by HanoverZ

I can deal with bad games, its the use of SHILLs that's hard to stomach.  

Shill:

2.

a person who publicizes or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty.

 

Unless you are claiming that some og the posters here are "secretly working for" Starvault the difference between shill, fan, supporter, etc is entirely a matter of opinion.

 

Please give a little more thought before throwing out perjorative terms (unless you really are trying to say some people here secretly work for SV).

 

I clearly stated my intended defintion above and yes it is a matter of opionion. Duh   Feel free to disagree, but dont try spinning it.

ShortyBible

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Originally posted by Rohn

 

Today, 18:26	#1 (permalink)
Black Opal Community Manager     Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 535 Rep Power: 15	Developer Community Update  In this regard I would also like to ask the community to say what they consider to be the highest priority. So while we can start working on AI right away, it will only be at the cost of other things. __________________   Nice , The community is now managing the developement team Share MO with others Opal Mini Tracker

.

  

And THIS dear friends is really one of the core issues.  There is apparently no design plan.. no over arching-leadership, but rather a community poll.   This is why there are a huge number of "placeholder" features or partially implemented ones.  This is why a huge amount of the items that get listed on the "Working On" updates never actually see the light of day.

 

Then item #2...Seriously.. how many times were we told that AI was DONE?   It was just waiting for NavMesh.. I believe we were told that the AI was all set but was basicly "blind" but it would be pretty easy to implement...  Now we are told that there is NO AI done and it will have to be created from scratch with the UE3 tools....

 

Wow...   

ShortyBible

Originally posted by HerculesSAS

That said, he has helped to open the door to many people who can lie about ideas and take people's money by preying on hopes of making that "ultimate sandbox game". So to those people who continue to support him, thank yourselves for every liar and crook that comes along from here on out, because you set a precedence that shows that you're willing to give your money just in the HOPE that somebody will make your game.

One of the best paragraphs I have ever read to describe my experience with Star Vault.

/Signed

ShortyBible

Originally posted by deathshroud

You know full well slapshot that it has been stated hundreds of times that they are a small team, with a low budget, making an ambitious project. It was even stated on the buy screen in beta. Does henrik lie? somtimes, are his statements sometimes exaggerated? yep. Is he all that different from any other game rep? Nope. Come to think of it just yesterday i watch an interview with the guys behind planetside2 claiming it was a sandbox, turns out you can customise your weapons slightly. Not a sandbox at all but still its jsut an example of how they completely blow their own game mechanics out of proportion in order to sell more games. The good thing here is that the devs try to listen to what we want and what should be prioritised regardless.

WOW my only comment . Stay away from these people, stay far  far away. His post speaks for it's self. Don't loose your hard earned money like I did.

Revivial

Originally posted by ShortyBible

Originally posted by HerculesSAS

That said, he has helped to open the door to many people who can lie about ideas and take people's money by preying on hopes of making that "ultimate sandbox game". So to those people who continue to support him, thank yourselves for every liar and crook that comes along from here on out, because you set a precedence that shows that you're willing to give your money just in the HOPE that somebody will make your game.

One of the best paragraphs I have ever read to describe my experience with Star Vault.

/Signed

 

 

There are a lot of scantless ****s in this industry, just look at Zynga.

BizkitNL

Originally posted by ShortyBible

Originally posted by deathshroud

You know full well slapshot that it has been stated hundreds of times that they are a small team, with a low budget, making an ambitious project. It was even stated on the buy screen in beta. Does henrik lie? somtimes, are his statements sometimes exaggerated? yep. Is he all that different from any other game rep? Nope. Come to think of it just yesterday i watch an interview with the guys behind planetside2 claiming it was a sandbox, turns out you can customise your weapons slightly. Not a sandbox at all but still its jsut an example of how they completely blow their own game mechanics out of proportion in order to sell more games. The good thing here is that the devs try to listen to what we want and what should be prioritised regardless.

WOW my only comment . Stay away from these people, stay far  far away. His post speaks for it's self. Don't loose your hard earned money like I did.

I didnt know that weapon customization was a sandbox element? I'm not even gonna comment on the rest. Too stupendous.

HerculesSAS

Originally posted by Revivial

Originally posted by ShortyBible

Originally posted by HerculesSAS

That said, he has helped to open the door to many people who can lie about ideas and take people's money by preying on hopes of making that "ultimate sandbox game". So to those people who continue to support him, thank yourselves for every liar and crook that comes along from here on out, because you set a precedence that shows that you're willing to give your money just in the HOPE that somebody will make your game.

One of the best paragraphs I have ever read to describe my experience with Star Vault.

/Signed

There are a lot of scantless ****s in this industry, just look at Zynga.

 

Zynga makes a game that you can play for free and buy 'addons' to enhance your game experience. The games may suck but that's a valid business model and I don't find it unethical to operate the way they are.

 

Starvault has *stolen* people's money without their consent, subscribed people who NEVER wanted to be, and perpetuated lies in order to keep it all going. All so this spoiled kid could keep his daddy-supplied job another day. Henrik is the like the guy who told his dad, "Dad, I love amusement parks a lot so I want to run one!" and in turn, his dad bought him an amusement park to run. The only problem is since the kid was basically an idiot, he didn't know what to do because he had no experience, and every time the goings got tough, he started to cry. It's a pathetic, unethical, and criminal enterprise that is running right now, and those that support it just because "I really like MO" really have no scruples about them.

HanoverZ

Originally posted by HerculesSAS

I am amazed that the community, despite being able to LOOK AT THE LIES, continues to defy their own logic and believe this used car salesman.

 

Henrik is an incompetent, unethical, liar, cheat, and thief. And for people to continue to support him in hopes that he might make "the best game ever" is laughable at best, and honestly quite sad.

 

That said, he has helped to open the door to many people who can lie about ideas and take people's money by preying on hopes of making that "ultimate sandbox game". So to those people who continue to support him, thank yourselves for every liar and crook that comes along from here on out, because you set a precedence that shows that you're willing to give your money just in the HOPE that somebody will make your game.

Some people love the IDEA so much they are in complete denial in regards to the actual game and SV.