I bought a lifetime sub to Mass Effect 2 at Microcenter for 10USD.
Most agree there is about 20-30 hours of content in that title (not counting all the hidden stuff, and planet scans etc.).
I read Bioware is stating around 200 hours of content per class, but since i'm not an altaholic in games like this I will stick with the 200 hour number.
So 200 divided by 20 is 10 so 10 times 10 equals 100.
I wouldn't pay more then 100 dollars for a lifetime sub to this game.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." - John Galt
I bought a lifetime sub to Mass Effect 2 at Microcenter for 10USD.
Most agree there is about 20-30 hours of content in that title (not counting all the hidden stuff, and planet scans etc.).
I read Bioware is stating around 200 hours of content per class, but since i'm not an altaholic in games like this I will stick with the 200 hour number.
So 200 divided by 20 is 10 so 10 times 10 equals 100.
I wouldn't pay more then 100 dollars for a lifetime sub to this game.
200 hours of non endgame content at release. You aren't counting endgame or what is added later. And if you aren't counting making even a single alt, then why bother posting your opinion? Obviously a lifetime sub would be for those that it makes the most sense to, which would be people who would get the most play out of the game, which isn't you.
I bought a lifetime sub to Mass Effect 2 at Microcenter for 10USD.
Most agree there is about 20-30 hours of content in that title (not counting all the hidden stuff, and planet scans etc.).
I read Bioware is stating around 200 hours of content per class, but since i'm not an altaholic in games like this I will stick with the 200 hour number.
So 200 divided by 20 is 10 so 10 times 10 equals 100.
I wouldn't pay more then 100 dollars for a lifetime sub to this game.
200 hours of non endgame content at release. You aren't counting endgame or what is added later. And if you aren't counting making even a single alt, then why bother posting your opinion? Obviously a lifetime sub would be for those that it makes the most sense to, which would be people who would get the most play out of the game, which isn't you.
Since lifetime subs are relatively new to the lifetime of this industry, I believe the criteria i outlined is reasonable.
I would be interested in the Metrics behind how many own lifetime subs and how many still use them.
Sure you can go back a year from now and if the servers are still up you can play. MMO's aren't single player games though, going back to an older community maybe with absent friends, maybe with friends that still play, maybe with different game mechanics, maybe new systems and alternative advancement systems etc.
Imagine having a lifetime sub to SWG...
I think i was being fair.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." - John Galt
It's pretty obvious from recent events that EA is going to probably pull out all the stops to maximize the revenue streams from SWTOR.
So I was wondering if they'll eventually go the life time sub route, if so, how much do you think they'd charge and I thought I toss in a poll to see how many people would consider buying it. (you can post your price point in the thread if you like)
Let me put an end to your wondering.
THERE IS NO WAY THAT SWTOR WILL HAVE A LIFETIME SUB.
Clear enough?
You willing to buy me a free one if they ever do? Unless your uncle "George" gave you a tip it's probably not a good idea to say never. Ask EVE players who were promised there would never be a cash shop.
Sure. As long as you pay for my first year subscription to SWTOR when they don't have a lifetime subscription at launch.
Note I said, "eventually", and you're splitting hairs and saying at launch. Never is... "never"
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There won't be a lifetime sub because it is a bad deal for the company from a financial standpoint. It is good for smaller IP's not for SW though.
The players willing to buy a lifetime sub are usually fans (not necesarily hardcore only) that will pay for at least the amount of time the lifetime needs to break even. No matter what happens to the game. In most cases this is at least 1+ year.
These players will be subscribed anyways even if the game sucks (i dont say it will) because hope does not die with a MMO until the 1 year mark. There is always hope for drastic changes, add ons, more content and of cause the famous "Miracle Patch".
With a big IP like StarWars it would be foolish to offer a lifetime sub. The game will be around, just like SWG, for at least 5 years and there will be fans playing. All these fans will have a lifetime sub and won't add revenue for 4 years.
Lifetime sub? Not going to happen, sorry.
PS: Unless they really think their game sucks and won't even keep the Hardcore fans playing for more than a year (highly unlikely)
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
It's pretty obvious from recent events that EA is going to probably pull out all the stops to maximize the revenue streams from SWTOR.
So I was wondering if they'll eventually go the life time sub route, if so, how much do you think they'd charge and I thought I toss in a poll to see how many people would consider buying it. (you can post your price point in the thread if you like)
Let me put an end to your wondering.
THERE IS NO WAY THAT SWTOR WILL HAVE A LIFETIME SUB.
Clear enough?
You willing to buy me a free one if they ever do? Unless your uncle "George" gave you a tip it's probably not a good idea to say never. Ask EVE players who were promised there would never be a cash shop.
Sure. As long as you pay for my first year subscription to SWTOR when they don't have a lifetime subscription at launch.
Note I said, "eventually", and you're splitting hairs and saying at launch. Never is... "never"
So pay up at launch and eventually you will get your money back. Plus a lifetime sub.
Unless you know deep down that there is no way SWTOR will have a lifetime subscription.
It's pretty obvious from recent events that EA is going to probably pull out all the stops to maximize the revenue streams from SWTOR.
So I was wondering if they'll eventually go the life time sub route, if so, how much do you think they'd charge and I thought I toss in a poll to see how many people would consider buying it. (you can post your price point in the thread if you like)
They won't offer lifetime subs,but I'd buy one in a heartbeat as long as it wasn't ridiculously overpriced.
As long as it was close to or less than 2 years monthly payments I would get the lifetime sub. Of course It is hard to make a decision without playing the game but by the end of the first free 30 days I would have a pretty goo idea.
If a lifetime sub was in the 200-250 range, I would consider it though I doubt (given the price point of the CE) that it would be that low.
A lifetime sub is not necessarily a bad choice for a company as some have been saying. If the bean-counters have a good estimate of how many folks will bite and initial cash flow is not so great, lifetime subs can juice the fiscal quarters. The entities monetarily invested in the game must see returns and a lifetime sub roll out can falsely beef up a profit and loss statement.
Sorry for using WoW as an example (I know most of us are sick of it) but it is likely the only fair comparison to the (already huge)popularity of this game. Not to mention BioWare's own Greg Zeschuk said-
“It is a touchstone. It has established standards, it’s established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that’s pretty dumb”
As of 2008 Blizzard claimed their total cost up to that point was ~200 million USD. Box sales ALONE (not counting subs) accounted for 1.2 BILLION USD at that time. This means at the 1.6 million subscriber mark, box sales (Vanilla + first expansion) paid for the game. They claimed 11 million subs at that time. Add subscription fees to that and try to imagine the cash. Most of us can't realistically comprehend how much money that really is.
There is no reason a company in a capitalist environment should kneecap themselves with lifetime subs if they think they can go anywhere near those numbers or keep players interested in their game for a lengthy period.
The average sub fee, 15 USD per month, is roughly 1% of the average yearly income of an American over the age of 18.
What is a lifetime sub worth? My question is why do we think a subscription fee is justified in the first place? Or at worst, how is it justified to be more than say 5 USD per month? It certainly isn't justified by "upkeep" costs...
TLDR- Box sales alone make huge profit over and above maintenance/production costs. They will continue to rob us as long as we continue to let them. Put the responsibility on them to make their money on expansions and additional content instead of sticking a cash draining IV in us.
I did pay the 300$ for LOTR back in 2007 so yes am willing to pay life time sub if it is close to the 300-400$ range , would save me money over normal 14,99$ monthly sub if I play more than 2-3 years which I prolly will .
I think if EA / BW did offer a lifetime sub it would be so overpriced that most people would dismiss it out of hand. A few diehards would buy it I am sure.
EA ( and now BW ) are the kings of nickle and dimeing people. More likely a cash shop for those nickle and dimes than a lifetime sub offer.
Originally posted by Kyleran So I was wondering if they'll eventually go the life time sub route..
I'd buy one but they aren't going to do it.
Lifetime subs are mainly for games where the developer thinks they are going to have problems getting people to sub to it, so they opt for the upfront "payment" in one lump sum.
With a projected 3 million in sales that isn't the problem EA will have, so lifetime won't be offered as much as I would like. Being able to play throught ALL the storylines on both sides as male and female for years would definitely get them my $300.
No chance of buying a lifetime sub. I do think if they go that route it will be closer to 300. Bioware seems to think way to highly of themselves and I think arrogant enough to think folks will pay it.
any studio that makes a single player game and pawns it off as an "MMO" is arrogant enough...no dobut. sad part, some people will play along...for now.
Originally posted by Tyvolus1 Originally posted by parrotpholk No chance of buying a lifetime sub. I do think if they go that route it will be closer to 300. Bioware seems to think way to highly of themselves and I think arrogant enough to think folks will pay it.
sad part, some people will play along...for now.
Well, people played and raged hard about how great Warhammer was back in the day. They had some really gullible fans who kept telling everyone they were playing the game "wrong" when people said they weren't having any fun in that buggy game.
But look at Warhammer now... it has a robust 50k people still playing.
If the lifetime sub price is $300.00 (USD) or less, I would seriously consider buying it. At that price I break even at 20 months which is pretty good in my book. I've never bought a lifetime sub before, but at the same time NO game has been as fun to play for me either. Heck, I even was having a lot of fun with crafting and I normally hate crafting.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
lifetime subs are only better for the developer if they know the game is going to sink. A good game will opt to keep a monthly sub and keep players happy, playing, and paying.
If a game offers a lifetime sub, run, don't look back, and don't stop.
i think they will try to charge for everything possible since its EA. but hopefully EA can't tell Bioware what to do or players wont see free content patches or anything in SWTOR. i'm hoping EA can't control what Bioware does.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Lifetime subs would be perfect for SWTOR, it allows you to return to the game whenever they add new content... Would be great for those that plan to play SWTOR in combination with GW2.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
As others have pointed out, life time subs do not "maximize the revenue stream". It is a way for games to get money up front if they are concerned that they won't be keeping the monthly subs long-term. If the game is successful long-term, they end up losing money. It was smart when DCUO did it. The game was fun, but didn't have the content for long term retention.
Made the error to buy a lifetime for LotRo a long time ago for 149 at the 1st anniversary, thinking I'd play it till the game died. Well, I was wrong about that. Instead, the game died for me, even before I had played long enough for the lifettime sub to break-even with the months played in total. And looking now at what Turbine did to LotRo, I learned my lesson never to trust ANY publisher offering lifetime sub and get it. The other GREAT examples of how things wend bad for lifetimers are the Cryptic MMO's (CO & STo) as well as DCUO (went F2P within the year FFS)
Nah, I'll stick with monthly sub till I grow tired of SWTOR or ArcheAge is released...
Comments
Lifetime subs arent worth it to me..
The last time an MMO held my interest beyond a couple months was Planetside(DAOC and EQ being before that)
I bought a lifetime sub to Mass Effect 2 at Microcenter for 10USD.
Most agree there is about 20-30 hours of content in that title (not counting all the hidden stuff, and planet scans etc.).
I read Bioware is stating around 200 hours of content per class, but since i'm not an altaholic in games like this I will stick with the 200 hour number.
So 200 divided by 20 is 10 so 10 times 10 equals 100.
I wouldn't pay more then 100 dollars for a lifetime sub to this game.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
- John Galt
200 hours of non endgame content at release. You aren't counting endgame or what is added later. And if you aren't counting making even a single alt, then why bother posting your opinion? Obviously a lifetime sub would be for those that it makes the most sense to, which would be people who would get the most play out of the game, which isn't you.
Since lifetime subs are relatively new to the lifetime of this industry, I believe the criteria i outlined is reasonable.
I would be interested in the Metrics behind how many own lifetime subs and how many still use them.
Sure you can go back a year from now and if the servers are still up you can play. MMO's aren't single player games though, going back to an older community maybe with absent friends, maybe with friends that still play, maybe with different game mechanics, maybe new systems and alternative advancement systems etc.
Imagine having a lifetime sub to SWG...
I think i was being fair.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
- John Galt
Note I said, "eventually", and you're splitting hairs and saying at launch. Never is... "never"
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There won't be a lifetime sub because it is a bad deal for the company from a financial standpoint. It is good for smaller IP's not for SW though.
The players willing to buy a lifetime sub are usually fans (not necesarily hardcore only) that will pay for at least the amount of time the lifetime needs to break even. No matter what happens to the game. In most cases this is at least 1+ year.
These players will be subscribed anyways even if the game sucks (i dont say it will) because hope does not die with a MMO until the 1 year mark. There is always hope for drastic changes, add ons, more content and of cause the famous "Miracle Patch".
With a big IP like StarWars it would be foolish to offer a lifetime sub. The game will be around, just like SWG, for at least 5 years and there will be fans playing. All these fans will have a lifetime sub and won't add revenue for 4 years.
Lifetime sub? Not going to happen, sorry.
PS: Unless they really think their game sucks and won't even keep the Hardcore fans playing for more than a year (highly unlikely)
So pay up at launch and eventually you will get your money back. Plus a lifetime sub.
Unless you know deep down that there is no way SWTOR will have a lifetime subscription.
I'd pay the $200 for an LTS without question.
I paid liftetime subscription for Lord of the Rings Online. I no longer play the game, but have no regrets as it was still good value for money.
However, for most games it would not be worth it as I rarely play a game for more than 3 months.
They won't offer lifetime subs,but I'd buy one in a heartbeat as long as it wasn't ridiculously overpriced.
As long as it was close to or less than 2 years monthly payments I would get the lifetime sub. Of course It is hard to make a decision without playing the game but by the end of the first free 30 days I would have a pretty goo idea.
If a lifetime sub was in the 200-250 range, I would consider it though I doubt (given the price point of the CE) that it would be that low.
A lifetime sub is not necessarily a bad choice for a company as some have been saying. If the bean-counters have a good estimate of how many folks will bite and initial cash flow is not so great, lifetime subs can juice the fiscal quarters. The entities monetarily invested in the game must see returns and a lifetime sub roll out can falsely beef up a profit and loss statement.
Sorry for using WoW as an example (I know most of us are sick of it) but it is likely the only fair comparison to the (already huge)popularity of this game. Not to mention BioWare's own Greg Zeschuk said-
“It is a touchstone. It has established standards, it’s established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that’s pretty dumb”
As of 2008 Blizzard claimed their total cost up to that point was ~200 million USD. Box sales ALONE (not counting subs) accounted for 1.2 BILLION USD at that time. This means at the 1.6 million subscriber mark, box sales (Vanilla + first expansion) paid for the game. They claimed 11 million subs at that time. Add subscription fees to that and try to imagine the cash. Most of us can't realistically comprehend how much money that really is.
There is no reason a company in a capitalist environment should kneecap themselves with lifetime subs if they think they can go anywhere near those numbers or keep players interested in their game for a lengthy period.
The average sub fee, 15 USD per month, is roughly 1% of the average yearly income of an American over the age of 18.
What is a lifetime sub worth? My question is why do we think a subscription fee is justified in the first place? Or at worst, how is it justified to be more than say 5 USD per month? It certainly isn't justified by "upkeep" costs...
TLDR- Box sales alone make huge profit over and above maintenance/production costs. They will continue to rob us as long as we continue to let them. Put the responsibility on them to make their money on expansions and additional content instead of sticking a cash draining IV in us.
I did pay the 300$ for LOTR back in 2007 so yes am willing to pay life time sub if it is close to the 300-400$ range , would save me money over normal 14,99$ monthly sub if I play more than 2-3 years which I prolly will .
I think if EA / BW did offer a lifetime sub it would be so overpriced that most people would dismiss it out of hand. A few diehards would buy it I am sure.
EA ( and now BW ) are the kings of nickle and dimeing people. More likely a cash shop for those nickle and dimes than a lifetime sub offer.
Just my opinion tho.
Lifetime subs are mainly for games where the developer thinks they are going to have problems getting people to sub to it, so they opt for the upfront "payment" in one lump sum.
With a projected 3 million in sales that isn't the problem EA will have, so lifetime won't be offered as much as I would like. Being able to play throught ALL the storylines on both sides as male and female for years would definitely get them my $300.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I suspect BW is aiming to have high retention, even if that means players might unsub for a bit and come back later.
Therefore, I don't think they'll do a lifetime sub.
I think most that will unsub at some point will come back later when there's more content.
any studio that makes a single player game and pawns it off as an "MMO" is arrogant enough...no dobut. sad part, some people will play along...for now.
Well, people played and raged hard about how great Warhammer was back in the day. They had some really gullible fans who kept telling everyone they were playing the game "wrong" when people said they weren't having any fun in that buggy game.
But look at Warhammer now... it has a robust 50k people still playing.
"TO MICHAEL!"
If the lifetime sub price is $300.00 (USD) or less, I would seriously consider buying it. At that price I break even at 20 months which is pretty good in my book. I've never bought a lifetime sub before, but at the same time NO game has been as fun to play for me either. Heck, I even was having a lot of fun with crafting and I normally hate crafting.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
lifetime subs are only better for the developer if they know the game is going to sink. A good game will opt to keep a monthly sub and keep players happy, playing, and paying.
If a game offers a lifetime sub, run, don't look back, and don't stop.
i think they will try to charge for everything possible since its EA. but hopefully EA can't tell Bioware what to do or players wont see free content patches or anything in SWTOR. i'm hoping EA can't control what Bioware does.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Lifetime subs would be perfect for SWTOR, it allows you to return to the game whenever they add new content... Would be great for those that plan to play SWTOR in combination with GW2.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
As others have pointed out, life time subs do not "maximize the revenue stream". It is a way for games to get money up front if they are concerned that they won't be keeping the monthly subs long-term. If the game is successful long-term, they end up losing money. It was smart when DCUO did it. The game was fun, but didn't have the content for long term retention.
Made the error to buy a lifetime for LotRo a long time ago for 149 at the 1st anniversary, thinking I'd play it till the game died. Well, I was wrong about that. Instead, the game died for me, even before I had played long enough for the lifettime sub to break-even with the months played in total. And looking now at what Turbine did to LotRo, I learned my lesson never to trust ANY publisher offering lifetime sub and get it.
The other GREAT examples of how things wend bad for lifetimers are the Cryptic MMO's (CO & STo) as well as DCUO (went F2P within the year FFS)
Nah, I'll stick with monthly sub till I grow tired of SWTOR or ArcheAge is released...