Then you should stop buying and playing MMOS since all you are doing is renting pixels anyway.
This is actually a pretty spot on statement.
I keep seeing statements such as "just pixels" yet here people are spending time and effort talking about pixels and spending money so they can play with pixels.
But as soon as there is something they don't like they start using the "just pixels" argument.
And what is music but just sound waves? Or movies; just light through a medium. Or even "pixels".
Things are valued based upon what they offer and that that gives to the customer.
There is no "need" for in game items. They can offer perks or neat little aesthetic touches in these games.
I purchased the deluxe edition for 2 perks, the speeder conveyance and the stone to change the color of my blasters/light saber.
Why? Because a conveyance is just that to me "conveyance' and I hear some of the planets are large. I don't care about the "earning" of such things to me there is no value in earning a conveyance. I just need to get places. The stone? I don't ever want a green light saber.
It's like morrowind and oblvion, I always give myself the gear I want beforehand. I never earn gear. I imagine my character as an already established entitiy. From there I can enjoy the story and the adventures without having to hoard pants from my enemies so I can sell those pants and then buy slightly upgraded pants.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
No,I am sure they wouldnt. but thats the beauty of the scam.
See what I mean though? The victims fight to support it...
And, BTW, we are talking about pixels being given as an incentive for for pre orders, we are not dicsussing the price of the CE right now. Just to clarify for you.
No one is a victim that willingly walks into something, I am sure you can find better names for them.
People who are tricked into walking into things by the lies and false realities of others are victims, whether it's of their own 'free will' or not.
The word was chosen for a reason, I don't need to look for another.
Doesn't mean your choice of word is right.
My choice of word expresses what I want to say perfectly, so yes it's right. Stop trying to control how others express themselves when they are using legitimate language in a calm reasoned manner- thats just PC BS.
No one got tricked, clearly i didn't because i read every detail before i ordered two CE.
Again, my point wasnt about the CE. I have no idea why you keep going back to that when I have already clarified.
My point was part of the broader discussion about how virtual items have no real value, I prefer to work for my in game rewards, and that the broader trick of renting pixels to a customer under the guise of selling them something real (utilising well established retail and marketing tricks that exploit impluse purchasing, laziness, and addiction).
I think you are just trying to get rise out of people on purpose.
No. If people that see things differently 'rise' then thats their situation. All I am doing is expressing a clear and reasoned point of view in a calm manner. Thats what discussions and debates are.
Then you should stop buying and playing MMOS since all you are doing is renting pixels anyway.
No,you are wrong.
When I play an MMORPG I am paying it for the challenge of learning it and beating it, the experience of the world they have created and the stories within it, and the pleasure of doing that with friends.
Spending RL money on renting new cosmentic armour bypasses all that and shortcuts consumers straight to the reward.
It's a fundamental difference in how you are sold content- playable DLC or dress up pixels for your avatar- Play to Achieve vs Pay to Achieve.
I play to achieve, because I am a gamer.
Well if this is why you play:
"When I play an MMORPG I am paying it for the challenge of learning it and beating it, the experience of the world they have created and the stories within it, and the pleasure of doing that with friends."
Then why does this bother you:
Spending RL money on renting new cosmentic armour bypasses all that and shortcuts consumers straight to the reward.
Calm maybe but reasoned point of view? not even close.
Explain how what I am saying isnt reasoned?
Also if you think you have the right to label me as a victim i surely have the right to tell you that you are wrong.
Yes, you absolutely have that right, as long as you can support the assertion (as I have done mine)
or you are trying to insinuate that i am too stupid to realise that i was scamed?
I am insinuating nothing. Everything I am saying can be taken as literal meaning.
(edited to remove the more emotional reactions)
Sorry but that is how i read it. You are tellign me that people have been scammed for buying CE version and i told you i clearly do not feel that is the case and i don't feel as a victim and then you go on telling me that most of the people somehow do not even realise it? so in a way you are generalising everyone and putting a question mark on their ability to think for themselves.
It wasn't my intention to bash SW:TOR in any way. Please know that I'm a huge fan of the game and intend to play, but I have not preordered because I'd like to wait until the servers have settled, the initial bugs have been removed and the full experience is as good as it can get. I hope this explanation will make you understand that I have no intention to bash SW:TOR. I simply posted in this forum because TOR is the most recent game to offer pre-order items.
This thread should only discuss why we like or dislike 'free items'. If its location is a problem I'll gladly have a Admin move it
I hope I have managed to change your opinion of my post.
EDIT: Unlike you I like to start from scratch with no help whatsoever. I do so for the sake of immersion. But I do understand that many find fluff items to be a funny addition and as long they do not tip the scale (offer an advantage) I have no problems with them. But what is your opinion on pre-order items such as mounts?
Alright, matey, fair-dos if your posting goal is genuine. Consider my opinion changed.
I can certainly appreciate your point of view regarding immersion. I guess it comes down to a 'whatever floats your boat' scenario. As a roleplayer, I also appreciate immersion in a game environment over many other tangible things. On the other hand I also like 'shinies'. Sometimes I buy CE versions of a game if I'm really into that game. When AoC was released I bought the CE. It was worth it just for the art development book.
I won't be buying the SWTOR CE, purely because it doesn't have anything I really want in it. I would if it had a figure of that twi'lek smuggler character from the trailers.
But yeah, I'm also in the camp that believes that if a fluff item doesn't unbalance the game (though I'm a PVEr and RPer, so PvP balance doesn't interest me), then it's all good. In my opinion, fluff armour, gear, and mounts can also add a level of immersion to my experience as well. Basically, anything that helps my character stand out just a tiny bit more, is ok by me. Items that add bonuses don't bother me so much. Rings and potions and stuff that boost xp, that kinda stuff. Don't much care for those. Although if SWTOR came with, say, custom dual blaster pistols, sure I'd be interested, even if they gave +10% damage or something.
No,I am sure they wouldnt. but thats the beauty of the scam.
See what I mean though? The victims fight to support it...
And, BTW, we are talking about pixels being given as an incentive for for pre orders, we are not dicsussing the price of the CE right now. Just to clarify for you.
No one is a victim that willingly walks into something, I am sure you can find better names for them.
People who are tricked into walking into things by the lies and false realities of others are victims, whether it's of their own 'free will' or not.
The word was chosen for a reason, I don't need to look for another.
Doesn't mean your choice of word is right.
My choice of word expresses what I want to say perfectly, so yes it's right. Stop trying to control how others express themselves when they are using legitimate language in a calm reasoned manner- thats just PC BS.
No one got tricked, clearly i didn't because i read every detail before i ordered two CE.
Again, my point wasnt about the CE. I have no idea why you keep going back to that when I have already clarified.
My point was part of the broader discussion about how virtual items have no real value, I prefer to work for my in game rewards, and that the broader trick of renting pixels to a customer under the guise of selling them something real (utilising well established retail and marketing tricks that exploit impluse purchasing, laziness, and addiction).
I think you are just trying to get rise out of people on purpose.
No. If people that see things differently 'rise' then thats their situation. All I am doing is expressing a clear and reasoned point of view in a calm manner. Thats what discussions and debates are.
Then you should stop buying and playing MMOS since all you are doing is renting pixels anyway.
No,you are wrong.
When I play an MMORPG I am paying it for the challenge of learning it and beating it, the experience of the world they have created and the stories within it, and the pleasure of doing that with friends.
Spending RL money on renting new cosmentic armour bypasses all that and shortcuts consumers straight to the reward.
It's a fundamental difference in how you are sold content- playable DLC or dress up pixels for your avatar- Play to Achieve vs Pay to Achieve.
I play to achieve, because I am a gamer.
Well if this is why you play:
"When I play an MMORPG I am paying it for the challenge of learning it and beating it, the experience of the world they have created and the stories within it, and the pleasure of doing that with friends."
Then why does this bother you:
Spending RL money on renting new cosmentic armour bypasses all that and shortcuts consumers straight to the reward.
Because it chnages the very nature of the games on offer. In fact, the trend moves the MMORPG from 'games' to the more general 'entertainment product' definition.
In short, pay to achieve destroys what makes a game a game.
I dunno, I dislike pre-orders/premium boxes that give mostly useless in gam items. Rift's came with a starter mount which I loved and made the extra 10 bucks or whatever I paid worth every cent.
I don't have a lot of free time, and I don't get a great sense of accomplishment these days waiting until level 40 and saving up 100 gold to buy a mount.
Just started playing EQ2X to kill time before SWTOR and saw that I could buy an ingame (+135%) mount for basically 10.00 at level 1. Well, I tried to play it straight up, ran around on foot until level 12, looked up what it would take to earn my first in game mount. The person who wrote the guide I was reading leveled up from 14-18 while running the noob mount quest line and in the end got her new mount, 25% speed increase)
Bah, forget it, I bought the premium mount, and was deleriously happy as I flew around on my new disk from quest to quest at lightning speed.
Oh yes, point being, I'd pay extra for a pre-order if it has cool in game items that are actually useful over the long haul, I've got more cash than free time.
Now, pay more just to get a "mouse" droid? No, I don't think so.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But as soon as there is something they don't like they start using the "just pixels" argument.
And what is music but just sound waves? Or movies; just light through a medium. Or even "pixels".
sov, your basic thinking is flawed on this one.
Music I buy I own, movies I buy I own, RL cash purchases for pixels in a MMORPG? I will never own them. If the service shuts down they are gone.
The illusion of ownership when you are actually renting is fundamental to the discussion you are joining in on.
A fair point, but what would you do even if you owned said pixels? You couldn't copy and re-distribute them, just like you can't/shouldn't with music.
All you're really doing at the end of the day is paying to be entertained. Whether it's a ticket to a stand-up club, a DVD, a MMO sub.. kind of all the same really, isn't it?
But anyway, how does this minor quibble fit into the OP's topic?
But as soon as there is something they don't like they start using the "just pixels" argument.
And what is music but just sound waves? Or movies; just light through a medium. Or even "pixels".
sov, your basic thinking is flawed on this one.
Music I buy I own, movies I buy I own, RL cash purchases for pixels in a MMORPG? I will never own them. If the service shuts down they are gone.
The illusion of ownership when you are actually renting is fundamental to the discussion you are joining in on.
Which is the same for a MMO, you are paying for the service, and when you stop paying or they shut the servers down, the service is over. That $15.00 a month you pay is making cash purchases for pixels since it gives the developer more money to develop more content.
But as soon as there is something they don't like they start using the "just pixels" argument.
And what is music but just sound waves? Or movies; just light through a medium. Or even "pixels".
sov, your basic thinking is flawed on this one.
Music I buy I own, movies I buy I own, RL cash purchases for pixels in a MMORPG? I will never own them. If the service shuts down they are gone.
The illusion of ownership when you are actually renting is fundamental to the discussion you are joining in on.
It's only flawed if you don't look at the whole picture.
Music you pay a ticket to go hear is an experience. You might own that experience but you aren't getting any play backs.Movies you pay a ticket to go see is an experience but once you walk out of that theater that's it unless you want to pay for the rights to continue seeing it such a pay per view or buying a dvd.
Same with those pixels. You get an experience but once you stop paying then that's it. You have your memories. Much like the concert or the movie theater experience.
You are not buying pixels. you are buying an experience.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
With that whopping 150 dollar price tag, I can't blame you.
Gonna lmao when this game comes out and all these people spent 150 for the CE and realize they just been had.
Comments like this make me laugh. Do you think that one of the biggest powerhouse gaming companies is going to risk everything on a fail game? GW1 was garbage, so what makes you think GW2 will be any better...
No,I am sure they wouldnt. but thats the beauty of the scam.
See what I mean though? The victims fight to support it...
And, BTW, we are talking about pixels being given as an incentive for for pre orders, we are not dicsussing the price of the CE right now. Just to clarify for you.
No one is a victim that willingly walks into something, I am sure you can find better names for them.
People who are tricked into walking into things by the lies and false realities of others are victims, whether it's of their own 'free will' or not.
The word was chosen for a reason, I don't need to look for another.
Doesn't mean your choice of word is right.
My choice of word expresses what I want to say perfectly, so yes it's right. Stop trying to control how others express themselves when they are using legitimate language in a calm reasoned manner- thats just PC BS.
No one got tricked, clearly i didn't because i read every detail before i ordered two CE.
Again, my point wasnt about the CE. I have no idea why you keep going back to that when I have already clarified.
My point was part of the broader discussion about how virtual items have no real value, I prefer to work for my in game rewards, and that the broader trick of renting pixels to a customer under the guise of selling them something real (utilising well established retail and marketing tricks that exploit impluse purchasing, laziness, and addiction).
I think you are just trying to get rise out of people on purpose.
No. If people that see things differently 'rise' then thats their situation. All I am doing is expressing a clear and reasoned point of view in a calm manner. Thats what discussions and debates are.
Then you should stop buying and playing MMOS since all you are doing is renting pixels anyway.
No,you are wrong.
When I play an MMORPG I am paying it for the challenge of learning it and beating it, the experience of the world they have created and the stories within it, and the pleasure of doing that with friends.
Spending RL money on renting new cosmentic armour bypasses all that and shortcuts consumers straight to the reward.
It's a fundamental difference in how you are sold content- playable DLC or dress up pixels for your avatar- Play to Achieve vs Pay to Achieve.
I play to achieve, because I am a gamer.
Well if this is why you play:
"When I play an MMORPG I am paying it for the challenge of learning it and beating it, the experience of the world they have created and the stories within it, and the pleasure of doing that with friends."
Then why does this bother you:
Spending RL money on renting new cosmentic armour bypasses all that and shortcuts consumers straight to the reward.
Because it chnages the very nature of the games on offer. In fact, the trend moves the MMORPG from 'games' to the more general 'entertainment product' definition.
In short, pay to achieve destroys what makes a game a game.
As a ganer, yes that bothers me.
Games are general entertainment, they compete with other entertainment choices for your time and money. I don't understand how fluff items are pay to achieve? Achieve what exactly? Do they impact the game anyway? Does me having a holodancer somehow give me an unfair advantage?
Most MMOs that offer in-game bonus items for pre-orders generally aren't game breaking. Most of the items are usually just cosmetic and the only thing that might actually give you a slight edge is the starter mount.
Since in most MMOs, the starter mounts are usually pretty expensive and most people usually don't have the money to buy one at the level they're able to obtain them. Unless they save up every penny all the way up to that level. Basically limiting their progression down one single path to get their mount rather than using it to upgrade their gear or level up their crafts or whatever. I don't see how that affects the challenge at all. It just means you have to grind more. Grinding =/= challenge.
But as soon as there is something they don't like they start using the "just pixels" argument.
And what is music but just sound waves? Or movies; just light through a medium. Or even "pixels".
sov, your basic thinking is flawed on this one.
Music I buy I own, movies I buy I own, RL cash purchases for pixels in a MMORPG? I will never own them. If the service shuts down they are gone.
The illusion of ownership when you are actually renting is fundamental to the discussion you are joining in on.
A fair point, but what would you do even if you owned said pixels? You couldn't copy and re-distribute them, just like you can't/shouldn't with music.
Redistrubtion rights arnt really relevent to the point, though it's one that interests me and defitinetly worth a different discussion on a different day.
All you're really doing at the end of the day is paying to be entertained. Whether it's a ticket to a stand-up club, a DVD, a MMO sub.. kind of all the same really, isn't it?
I play MMORPGs to be entertained, sure, thats why Ilove play to achieve, but...
If I went into a shop and bought a DVD, took it home and enjoyed it for 6 months, and then the shop manager knocked on my door and asked for it back because they were closing down I would feel that to be... wrong.
This is core to this part of the point.
But anyway, how does this minor quibble fit into the OP's topic?
To put this whole, stupid argument about SWTOR's CE to rest, here's the simple fact:
They're offering a premium, blink version of their product, at a premium price. Whether or not it is worth it is irrelevant if it gives you joy. If you don't like the price, write to them and complain or simply don't buy it.
It's like paying €50 for a normal ticket to a Madonna concert, or €200 for a VIP pass. Is it worth it? Sure, if it makes you happy.
Last year, I secretly took my girlfriend to see the Sister Act musical at the London Palladium theatre. I couldn't really afford to, but I paid for the VIP experience.. champagne, butler, hand-made chocolates, the works.. All in all it cost me about €500 of my hard-earned vacation money (I was working part-time then).
Was it worth all that money? She sat there in our private VIP guest room and cried tears of joy whilst being served champagne by a red-coated butler. So, fuck yeah, you can bet your pimply asses it was worth it!
Same crap applies here. Is it worth it to you? No? Move along then, nothing to see here. But seriously, all this quibbling and nit-picking about teeny tiny, insignificant details, just so someone can make some pseudo-factal statement that Bioware and EA's joint effort in releasing SWTOR is like Satan iving birth to Saddam, well it's just getting retarded.
All you're really doing at the end of the day is paying to be entertained. Whether it's a ticket to a stand-up club, a DVD, a MMO sub.. kind of all the same really, isn't it?
I play MMORPGs to be entertained, sure, thats why Ilove play to achieve, but...
If I went into a shop and bought a DVD, took it home and enjoyed it for 6 months, and then the shop manager knocked on my door and asked for it back because they were closing down I would feel that to be... wrong.
This is core to this part of the point.
But anyway, how does this minor quibble fit into the OP's topic?
It is actually basic to his topic tbh
Please elaborate those two points, because it's Friday afternoon, hot, and I'm not understanding you yet.
No,I am sure they wouldnt. but thats the beauty of the scam.
See what I mean though? The victims fight to support it...
And, BTW, we are talking about pixels being given as an incentive for for pre orders, we are not dicsussing the price of the CE right now. Just to clarify for you.
No one is a victim that willingly walks into something, I am sure you can find better names for them.
People who are tricked into walking into things by the lies and false realities of others are victims, whether it's of their own 'free will' or not.
The word was chosen for a reason, I don't need to look for another.
Doesn't mean your choice of word is right.
My choice of word expresses what I want to say perfectly, so yes it's right. Stop trying to control how others express themselves when they are using legitimate language in a calm reasoned manner- thats just PC BS.
No one got tricked, clearly i didn't because i read every detail before i ordered two CE.
Again, my point wasnt about the CE. I have no idea why you keep going back to that when I have already clarified.
My point was part of the broader discussion about how virtual items have no real value, I prefer to work for my in game rewards, and that the broader trick of renting pixels to a customer under the guise of selling them something real (utilising well established retail and marketing tricks that exploit impluse purchasing, laziness, and addiction).
I think you are just trying to get rise out of people on purpose.
No. If people that see things differently 'rise' then thats their situation. All I am doing is expressing a clear and reasoned point of view in a calm manner. Thats what discussions and debates are.
Then you should stop buying and playing MMOS since all you are doing is renting pixels anyway.
No,you are wrong.
When I play an MMORPG I am paying it for the challenge of learning it and beating it, the experience of the world they have created and the stories within it, and the pleasure of doing that with friends.
Spending RL money on renting new cosmentic armour bypasses all that and shortcuts consumers straight to the reward.
It's a fundamental difference in how you are sold content- playable DLC or dress up pixels for your avatar- Play to Achieve vs Pay to Achieve.
I play to achieve, because I am a gamer.
Well if this is why you play:
"When I play an MMORPG I am paying it for the challenge of learning it and beating it, the experience of the world they have created and the stories within it, and the pleasure of doing that with friends."
Then why does this bother you:
Spending RL money on renting new cosmentic armour bypasses all that and shortcuts consumers straight to the reward.
Because it chnages the very nature of the games on offer. In fact, the trend moves the MMORPG from 'games' to the more general 'entertainment product' definition.
In short, pay to achieve destroys what makes a game a game.
As a ganer, yes that bothers me.
Games are general entertainment, they compete with other entertainment choices for your time and money.
Yes, agreed, they are entertainment, no doubt, but they are also (more importantly) games.
But the point being made is that they are being moved out of the 'game' defintion and into a wider one that requires passive consumption.
Active consumption vs passive consumption is important here.
I don't understand how fluff items are pay to achieve? Achieve what exactly? Do they impact the game anyway? Does me having a holodancer somehow give me an unfair advantage?
Achieve what exactly? Good question.
Buying in game rewards rather then playing to earn them
This point has nothing to do with play advantages in game, it'sabout how we achieve our rewards- actively or passively- play for them or pay for them.
To put this whole, stupid argument about SWTOR's CE to rest, here's the simple fact:
They're offering a premium, blink version of their product, at a premium price. Whether or not it is worth it is irrelevant if it gives you joy. If you don't like the price, write to them and complain or simply don't buy it.
It's like paying €50 for a normal ticket to a Madonna concert, or €200 for a VIP pass. Is it worth it? Sure, if it makes you happy.
Last year, I secretly took my girlfriend to see the Sister Act musical at the London Palladium theatre. I couldn't really afford to, but I paid for the VIP experience.. champagne, butler, hand-made chocolates, the works.. All in all it cost me about €500 of my hard-earned vacation money (I was working part-time then).
Was it worth all that money? She sat there in our private VIP guest room and cried tears of joy whilst being served champagne by a red-coated butler. So, fuck yeah, you can bet your pimply asses it was worth it!
Same crap applies here. Is it worth it to you? No? Move along then, nothing to see here. But seriously, all this quibbling and nit-picking about teeny tiny, insignificant details, just so someone can make some pseudo-factal statement that Bioware and EA's joint effort in releasing SWTOR is like Satan iving birth to Saddam, well it's just getting retarded.
Recently every game I have bought contained various items available in-game for your characters. SW:TOR did so aswell, and though I was tempted to buy the CE for the many physical items, the price in EU is beyond insanity. However, this thread does not concern the prices, but rather the need for people to be handed free in-game items.
I decided not to pre-order for many reasons that I shall not elaborate here. Suffice to say, I'd rather play the game when its completely done and released. Nevertheless, I now plan on getting a standard copy simply to avoid the in-game items. Though they serve little else other than vanity, I'd rather achieve such items through gaming. Some items are 'sadly' more effective than others and while the advantage may not be obvious I have come to dislike them. Starter mounts, as an example, ruins the joy of earning a proper mount, the feeling of accomplishment you get after all the work you went through.
Perhaps the keyword is 'work'? Whereas earlier games required much more dedication, many games nowadays are more easy and simple to approach. Are we tired of the work? Can work not also be entertaining? However you put it I, for one, like to achieve my items through work. That is one of the great feelings I get when gaming.
Its the simplest courtesy, you make them a service in buying the game before it launch, they give you a free item that cost them zero, service for service.
Buying in game rewards rather then playing to earn them
This point has nothing to do with play advantages in game, it'sabout how we achieve our rewards- actively or passively- play for them or pay for them.
As a gamer, I want to play for them.
But in general, pre-order items cannot be played for. They are all paid for, no? Naturally there have been some games that change that theory. AoC CE mounts are now buyable, but none of them can be played for.
Item shop rewards are not necessarily related to pre-order/CE rewards.
Therefore your point doesn't apply to this topic.
In any case, I agree. I would rather play for my rewards.
Yeah, I'm not a theater-man, really, but she is. But I gotta say, it was pretty friggin' awesome. Plus, getting dressed up like James Bond once in a while is a blast, man!
But yeah, I'm also in the camp that believes that if a fluff item doesn't unbalance the game (though I'm a PVEr and RPer, so PvP balance doesn't interest me), then it's all good. In my opinion, fluff armour, gear, and mounts can also add a level of immersion to my experience as well. Basically, anything that helps my character stand out just a tiny bit more, is ok by me. Items that add bonuses don't bother me so much. Rings and potions and stuff that boost xp, that kinda stuff. Don't much care for those. Although if SWTOR came with, say, custom dual blaster pistols, sure I'd be interested, even if they gave +10% damage or something.
Perhaps I'm just to conservative and want everyone to feel the same joy and sense of achievement I do when I play. Perhaps that is way I'm against paying for fluff items with real currency. I have slowly adjusted to the fact that fluff is okay and a good thing for those, like you, who wants to stand out. So do I, but preferably through in-game currency, though that would limit the 'stand-out' factor.
I'm still against items with +bonus though. I've never heard of fluff weapons but I support the idea to avoid weapons with +bonus as a possible purchase. However, if we begin discussing Item shops I'm sure this thread will explode
It's just a matter of what sort of incentives can they offer players to entice them into pre-ordering. It just so happens that offering virtual items is far easier than real items, although most collector editions tend to offer both. It's not a necessity. It's just something extra that's very easy for them to offer. And it turns out that many players actually love that stuff. They wouldn't do it if it didn't work.
if you need no items, buy the standard edition. prob solved.
That's also what I'm going to do. I simply wish to know why you want or do not want these items. Whether you find it more fulfilling to achieve them yourself through playing or if they are a part of fulfilling something else.
Comments
This is actually a pretty spot on statement.
I keep seeing statements such as "just pixels" yet here people are spending time and effort talking about pixels and spending money so they can play with pixels.
But as soon as there is something they don't like they start using the "just pixels" argument.
And what is music but just sound waves? Or movies; just light through a medium. Or even "pixels".
Things are valued based upon what they offer and that that gives to the customer.
There is no "need" for in game items. They can offer perks or neat little aesthetic touches in these games.
I purchased the deluxe edition for 2 perks, the speeder conveyance and the stone to change the color of my blasters/light saber.
Why? Because a conveyance is just that to me "conveyance' and I hear some of the planets are large. I don't care about the "earning" of such things to me there is no value in earning a conveyance. I just need to get places. The stone? I don't ever want a green light saber.
It's like morrowind and oblvion, I always give myself the gear I want beforehand. I never earn gear. I imagine my character as an already established entitiy. From there I can enjoy the story and the adventures without having to hoard pants from my enemies so I can sell those pants and then buy slightly upgraded pants.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Well if this is why you play:
"When I play an MMORPG I am paying it for the challenge of learning it and beating it, the experience of the world they have created and the stories within it, and the pleasure of doing that with friends."
Then why does this bother you:
Spending RL money on renting new cosmentic armour bypasses all that and shortcuts consumers straight to the reward.
In Bioware we trust!
Sorry but that is how i read it. You are tellign me that people have been scammed for buying CE version and i told you i clearly do not feel that is the case and i don't feel as a victim and then you go on telling me that most of the people somehow do not even realise it? so in a way you are generalising everyone and putting a question mark on their ability to think for themselves.
I see nothing reasonable about it.
Alright, matey, fair-dos if your posting goal is genuine. Consider my opinion changed.
I can certainly appreciate your point of view regarding immersion. I guess it comes down to a 'whatever floats your boat' scenario. As a roleplayer, I also appreciate immersion in a game environment over many other tangible things. On the other hand I also like 'shinies'. Sometimes I buy CE versions of a game if I'm really into that game. When AoC was released I bought the CE. It was worth it just for the art development book.
I won't be buying the SWTOR CE, purely because it doesn't have anything I really want in it. I would if it had a figure of that twi'lek smuggler character from the trailers.
But yeah, I'm also in the camp that believes that if a fluff item doesn't unbalance the game (though I'm a PVEr and RPer, so PvP balance doesn't interest me), then it's all good. In my opinion, fluff armour, gear, and mounts can also add a level of immersion to my experience as well. Basically, anything that helps my character stand out just a tiny bit more, is ok by me. Items that add bonuses don't bother me so much. Rings and potions and stuff that boost xp, that kinda stuff. Don't much care for those. Although if SWTOR came with, say, custom dual blaster pistols, sure I'd be interested, even if they gave +10% damage or something.
sov, your basic thinking is flawed on this one.
Music I buy I own, movies I buy I own, RL cash purchases for pixels in a MMORPG? I will never own them. If the service shuts down they are gone.
The illusion of ownership when you are actually renting is fundamental to the discussion you are joining in on.
Because it chnages the very nature of the games on offer. In fact, the trend moves the MMORPG from 'games' to the more general 'entertainment product' definition.
In short, pay to achieve destroys what makes a game a game.
As a ganer, yes that bothers me.
I dunno, I dislike pre-orders/premium boxes that give mostly useless in gam items. Rift's came with a starter mount which I loved and made the extra 10 bucks or whatever I paid worth every cent.
I don't have a lot of free time, and I don't get a great sense of accomplishment these days waiting until level 40 and saving up 100 gold to buy a mount.
Just started playing EQ2X to kill time before SWTOR and saw that I could buy an ingame (+135%) mount for basically 10.00 at level 1. Well, I tried to play it straight up, ran around on foot until level 12, looked up what it would take to earn my first in game mount. The person who wrote the guide I was reading leveled up from 14-18 while running the noob mount quest line and in the end got her new mount, 25% speed increase)
Bah, forget it, I bought the premium mount, and was deleriously happy as I flew around on my new disk from quest to quest at lightning speed.
Oh yes, point being, I'd pay extra for a pre-order if it has cool in game items that are actually useful over the long haul, I've got more cash than free time.
Now, pay more just to get a "mouse" droid? No, I don't think so.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A fair point, but what would you do even if you owned said pixels? You couldn't copy and re-distribute them, just like you can't/shouldn't with music.
All you're really doing at the end of the day is paying to be entertained. Whether it's a ticket to a stand-up club, a DVD, a MMO sub.. kind of all the same really, isn't it?
But anyway, how does this minor quibble fit into the OP's topic?
Which is the same for a MMO, you are paying for the service, and when you stop paying or they shut the servers down, the service is over. That $15.00 a month you pay is making cash purchases for pixels since it gives the developer more money to develop more content.
In Bioware we trust!
It's only flawed if you don't look at the whole picture.
Music you pay a ticket to go hear is an experience. You might own that experience but you aren't getting any play backs.Movies you pay a ticket to go see is an experience but once you walk out of that theater that's it unless you want to pay for the rights to continue seeing it such a pay per view or buying a dvd.
Same with those pixels. You get an experience but once you stop paying then that's it. You have your memories. Much like the concert or the movie theater experience.
You are not buying pixels. you are buying an experience.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Comments like this make me laugh. Do you think that one of the biggest powerhouse gaming companies is going to risk everything on a fail game? GW1 was garbage, so what makes you think GW2 will be any better...
/rollseyes
Games are general entertainment, they compete with other entertainment choices for your time and money. I don't understand how fluff items are pay to achieve? Achieve what exactly? Do they impact the game anyway? Does me having a holodancer somehow give me an unfair advantage?
In Bioware we trust!
Most MMOs that offer in-game bonus items for pre-orders generally aren't game breaking. Most of the items are usually just cosmetic and the only thing that might actually give you a slight edge is the starter mount.
Since in most MMOs, the starter mounts are usually pretty expensive and most people usually don't have the money to buy one at the level they're able to obtain them. Unless they save up every penny all the way up to that level. Basically limiting their progression down one single path to get their mount rather than using it to upgrade their gear or level up their crafts or whatever. I don't see how that affects the challenge at all. It just means you have to grind more. Grinding =/= challenge.
To put this whole, stupid argument about SWTOR's CE to rest, here's the simple fact:
They're offering a premium, blink version of their product, at a premium price. Whether or not it is worth it is irrelevant if it gives you joy. If you don't like the price, write to them and complain or simply don't buy it.
It's like paying €50 for a normal ticket to a Madonna concert, or €200 for a VIP pass. Is it worth it? Sure, if it makes you happy.
Last year, I secretly took my girlfriend to see the Sister Act musical at the London Palladium theatre. I couldn't really afford to, but I paid for the VIP experience.. champagne, butler, hand-made chocolates, the works.. All in all it cost me about €500 of my hard-earned vacation money (I was working part-time then).
Was it worth all that money? She sat there in our private VIP guest room and cried tears of joy whilst being served champagne by a red-coated butler. So, fuck yeah, you can bet your pimply asses it was worth it!
Same crap applies here. Is it worth it to you? No? Move along then, nothing to see here. But seriously, all this quibbling and nit-picking about teeny tiny, insignificant details, just so someone can make some pseudo-factal statement that Bioware and EA's joint effort in releasing SWTOR is like Satan iving birth to Saddam, well it's just getting retarded.
Please elaborate those two points, because it's Friday afternoon, hot, and I'm not understanding you yet.
Sister Act musical? You poor man.
In Bioware we trust!
Its the simplest courtesy, you make them a service in buying the game before it launch, they give you a free item that cost them zero, service for service.
But in general, pre-order items cannot be played for. They are all paid for, no? Naturally there have been some games that change that theory. AoC CE mounts are now buyable, but none of them can be played for.
Item shop rewards are not necessarily related to pre-order/CE rewards.
Therefore your point doesn't apply to this topic.
In any case, I agree. I would rather play for my rewards.
Yeah, I'm not a theater-man, really, but she is. But I gotta say, it was pretty friggin' awesome. Plus, getting dressed up like James Bond once in a while is a blast, man!
Perhaps I'm just to conservative and want everyone to feel the same joy and sense of achievement I do when I play. Perhaps that is way I'm against paying for fluff items with real currency. I have slowly adjusted to the fact that fluff is okay and a good thing for those, like you, who wants to stand out. So do I, but preferably through in-game currency, though that would limit the 'stand-out' factor.
I'm still against items with +bonus though. I've never heard of fluff weapons but I support the idea to avoid weapons with +bonus as a possible purchase. However, if we begin discussing Item shops I'm sure this thread will explode
It's just a matter of what sort of incentives can they offer players to entice them into pre-ordering. It just so happens that offering virtual items is far easier than real items, although most collector editions tend to offer both. It's not a necessity. It's just something extra that's very easy for them to offer. And it turns out that many players actually love that stuff. They wouldn't do it if it didn't work.
actually, there ins only one valid question:
WHY NOT!?
if you need no items, buy the standard edition. prob solved.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
That's also what I'm going to do. I simply wish to know why you want or do not want these items. Whether you find it more fulfilling to achieve them yourself through playing or if they are a part of fulfilling something else.