I would really like to see EQ break with history and the current MMO mechanisms and do something different. SoE and the much of the existing MMO playerbase are familiar with the land of Norrath. It is a good mythology, familiar yet with enough wonder to keep the basic world premise interesting.
I'd like to see them build on this legacy. Give the player different ways to determine success within this world. Give the player an opportunity to become an advisor to one of the rulers of the ciry. Don't base the game on levels only earned by endless, repetitive grinding. Use the mini-game Diplomacy aspect from Vanguard to build factions. Include a reputation system from the start, and quests are given once the appropriate faction is achieved. Include some unique quests -- not everyone should be sent to carry a message to X. -- one player per server gets the opportunity to do this, and if they fail, then another player could get the quest. Focus the game on deeds, not number of kills. I was involved in the group that drove the gnoll warrior, Marg from the territory. Every player does not need to be involved in every great deed/event/quest.
Give us a viable, limited economy with honest to goodness supply and demand tradeskills -- the concept of making items merely to get skill is fundamentally flawed. NPC merchants shouldn't be unlimited dumping grounds for the 128 chain greaves you made to skill up to the next level. And there's way a real mideval tailor would have an apprentice making full shirts just to learn how -- they practiced stitching and cutting on scraps. And why is everyone allowed to be a craftsman in every single craft?
Build the in-game community, and involve them in the real virtual life in Norrath. Have elections for the Freeport Ciry Council. Maybe one councilman has a public scandal. Give us tools to Role Play other than a chat system. Allow the players to vote on other characters persona. If player X acts greedy, it should affect their game reputation, if they are generous, they should get a repuatation for being generous (and that specific personal trait should be integrated into the trade window). Give us statistics that are meaningful, and groups that are essential. It's Massively Multiplayer, not Online Solo in a Common World.
If the game is going to have a cash shop, plan it from the beginning, and don't make it a crutial path to advancement. Give the player fashions and items that do not affect combat. Give the players reasons in-game to want to use these items. (You are cordially invited to attend the Mayor's Ball) of Qeynos).
More importantly, craft into the functional game system the ability for GMs to interactively manipulate the game environment, running localized events. Hire specific people to craft scripts and run these events -- frequently. These advasarial managers should be able to collect the orcs in East Commonlands and have them rush towards the guards -- with a reasonable possibility of winning! Dynamic content and quests are superior, and defeat the various cheat sites. Present the players with problems, and let them solve it (not resort to spoiler_site_001 to see what to do).
Breaking the MMO cycle of kill, loot, heal, rest, rince and repeat would be revolutionary. It could shift the concepts, anticipations and expectations of the MMO crowd, giving us new and more interesting ways to experoemce gaming. I believe it would take immense effort.. I'd love to see EQ Next push the boundaries of what we think of as gaming to a next level. Think revolutionary, not evolutionary.
But, I won't hold my breath.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I'd like to see them abandon the "?" over the head breadcrumb quest system and go back to the optional text-based system. Maybe its rose tinted glasses, but I thought that was a much more robust and challenging system. Hell even when they added the [key] words I still thought it was better. And some quests with no key words, love it.
wont happen this, they didnt have them on at release of EQ2 and it got added by demand of the players....one of many things people asked changed compared to how that game were at release, SOE listen abit too much to their players, instead of staying on a firm direction for the game...so we end up with this pure instance grinder we got today.
on topic they said last year that they aim on making EQ3 a iteration of EQ1 but giving Norrath a new faith than the original game, so remaking the world story....but exactly what they mean when saying they look more toward EQ1 than EQ2, Id want to see before getting false hope, would still expect a more casual friendly rather than harsher
It doesn't matter what we want, they're going to make whatever they think will make the most money with the least amount of time and money.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
I choose Classic EQ as the direction i would like to see, but with some changes.
EQ was a harsh world, and you didn't always have a friend to do those long runs with you. (Being a Warrior, i always had to run farther then my caster buddies........... I pulled the short straw in that deal big time.)
It was so frustrating, being the "meatshield" if things went bad i was expected to be the rear guard as we escaped the zone. Well, being a fat ogre i didn't always outrun the stuff that was trying to eat me and my group. Then i would spend the next X minutes trying to get back to the group naked. Again, being an Ogre everything and its sister wanted me dead. So it was a naked sprint back to the group, which did not always work out. Add to that this was on Rallos Zek, ffa pvp. Randomly having your screen go black, and then hearing your computer start to load before you could see again just to find out you're back at your spawn point.
So, yeah classic was great, but there are some things i don't wish to relive.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." - John Galt
I too would LOVE to see EQ1 updated with better graphic and animations. EQ1 was pretty harsh, but it made you think before you acted. The grouping aspect of the game was excellent. If they took EQ1 and revamped the graphics and animations, they would get people to comeback. I still get excited when I hear of people referring to EQ1, it was the MMO that really pulled me into MMOs and I base most of my harsh judgements of games against it.
If you died is a bad spot, guess what, it was going to be a long night. They had a great idea. There are some things that desperately need to be tweaked, of course. Not many people are into corpse runs any more, they may have to tweak that. But other than that, hey, the game was pretty amazing and immersive. If they could get the game back in ship shape I think they would have a winner on their hands again instead of their latest set of travesties.
I too would LOVE to see EQ1 updated with better graphic and animations. EQ1 was pretty harsh, but it made you think before you acted. The grouping aspect of the game was excellent. If they took EQ1 and revamped the graphics and animations, they would get people to comeback. I still get excited when I hear of people referring to EQ1, it was the MMO that really pulled me into MMOs and I base most of my harsh judgements of games against it.
If you died is a bad spot, guess what, it was going to be a long night. They had a great idea. There are some things that desperately need to be tweaked, of course. Not many people are into corpse runs any more, they may have to tweak that. But other than that, hey, the game was pretty amazing and immersive. If they could get the game back in ship shape I think they would have a winner on their hands again instead of their latest set of travesties.
Naked corpse runs never made me a happy camper. That being said I found some other game's approaches to death penalties to be good.
DAOC's Tombstone Runs were decent, and were also harsh because of re-spawns. You didn't have to worry about having to lose your hard earned equipment, but if you wanted that XP back you had to make the run.
I agree that the Death penalty has grown too soft since the "good old days" but at the same time, I don't want to go back to the way things were. Death penalties should be hard enough to seriously make a person fear death, but no harder. I remember playing conan where the death penalty was so light, that blood warping was one of the fastest ways to travel. I'd jump off of a cliff and die simply to travel halfway across the zone.
That being said, playing a game like FF11 where dying cost you 10% of the xp required to get to the next level AND potentially losing levels was a bad thing. Especially when you got to higher levels and the xp curve was such that it might take you 10 hours of game play or more to get that 10%.
Thing is, there is nothing to brag about, the engine looks like something made for the PS2.
SoE is on their 4th failed project in a row. Free Realms, The Agency, MTG Tactics, DCU Online. All of them underperformed and half of their staff was shown the door.
They're out of cash and can't compete anymore. SoE is done.
Lol Sony is out of Cash, now I have heard everything.
How can you even say that in a public forum? You cannot be that native, really?
You do understand that SOE is apart of Sony and Sony is a very successful company.
I think they can take a lot of great things from most of EQ's expansions, even the bad ones. Luclin provided a lot of content, not just for end game raiding either. The new leveling zones were great and they added the Beastlord class and the feline race. I don't view Luclin as a turning point for the game. Additions of convenience functionality such as Bazaars and free teleports to places were also a plus, and if they don't add basic functionality like a Bazaar or Auction House to Everquest Next I probably will not be playing it, as I don't feel like wasting my time shouting my wares all day in Commonlands Tunnels anymore.
Planes of Power on the other hand had a focus solely on higher level content, mainly raiding. I feel like that expansion took EQ in the wrong direction. That doesn't mean they can't learn from it, and there were a lot of great things in the PoP expansions (raid bosses finally needed strategy beyond zerging and running in and out of the AoE). LDoN content was great too even though it was instanced content I really enjoyed the mission style somewhat random gameplay it brought to the table. The brief DLC expansion they had (I can't remember the name of it) provided some decent leveling content, but overall I think that was a failure for them. Beyond that I stopped playing, but I've heard fond memories of the Gates of Discord and Omens of War expansions from someone who played during it too.
I feel like for EQ Next they need to focus on what made the original EQ great: exploration, unforgiving gameplay, less focus on traditional linear questing you see in modern MMOs, open world / everything is contested, truely epic quests that take months to complete such as the epic weapons and Coldain shawl, and huge GM run events while adding in the accessibility and improvements of modern MMOs: faster combat, less time wasting (waiting 15 minutes for a boat, medding for mana, etc.), UI accessibility, removal of ridiculous attunement/key requirements, achievements, well-scripted raid encounters (not just tank and spank), dynamic scaling, public quests, removal of overly harsh death penalties, less reliance on the trinity, housing, better crafting systems, etc.
Basically EQ Next needs to be designed with the target audience of the old school in mind. If they specifically make another game that trys to cover all of the primary MMO market (the WoW audience) then they will not do well, simply because there is too much competition already doing that. If they cater to the more niche audience of old school MMOers, explorers, and roleplayers than I feel like they could still get a good chunk of the pie (1 million super dedicated subscribers). They claim to be doing this with by looking back and trying to make the game more like Everquest and not Everquest 2, but I think SOE is in bad shape right now financially so who knows if they'll even be able to follow through with it.
I wouldn't bet against SOE going for a raid focused end game. They absolutely adore it and it's the lazy devs way of designing content and they are a lazy bunch. Vanguard wasn't designed with a raiding focus and yet the first thing SOE did when they acquired it was to add raid after raid before they stopped adding anything at all. Same thing with EQ2, when it first released, it was pretty raid light, now it's raid or die just like every SOE game.
Modern EQ is actually pretty group friendly. There is quite a bit to do in EQ today for people that have no interest in raiding. The problem EQ has today is there is no stepping stone between single group stuff and full blown 54 man raids, and with the dwindling player base rounding up 54 people to raid is getting more and more difficult.
However, I would count on EQ:Next at least having some sort of large scale (large number of people) raids. That is the niche EQ1 has carved out for itself in the modern day and I would imagine EQ:Next will have large raids also, though I'd imagine you'll see smaller raids as well.
Thing is, there is nothing to brag about, the engine looks like something made for the PS2.
SoE is on their 4th failed project in a row. Free Realms, The Agency, MTG Tactics, DCU Online. All of them underperformed and half of their staff was shown the door.
They're out of cash and can't compete anymore. SoE is done.
Hahah ok well you can think that but take away the fact that EQ 1 is still going strong ... EQ 2 is going very well ... there SONY there not going anywhere if anything they will just snatch up a bunch more little comapnies and put there games on the SoE umbrella.
Sony has more money then about 85 - 90% of all gaming companies out there.
Honor, Valor, Truth are in the heart of the true and the one.
About as vague and precise as I care to be. Simply remaking Everquest isn't the answer to their own or anyone elses hopes I don't think, even as much as people would like to imagine that it is.
Sony Japan has absolutely nothing to do with SoE, they're part of SCEA, which is part of SCE which answers to Sony, but the 2 companies operate independently.
There are a lot of things I would want for EQ Next.
The problem is I feel SOE is too in touch with a failed money making philosophy rather than the gamers they want to sale a product too. I have this little nightmare of it being a PS3 game ported to PC with poor UI, no social tools outside of shoddy voice, bugs riddled throughout play from a rush to early launch, only enough content for a couple of weeks, and a focus on pure action game play. Basically a co-op single player game labeled as an MMORPG or pretty much DCUO all over again.
edit: at least it would "look" great. You know, like those hamburgers on the commercials.
Basically EQ Next needs to be designed with the target audience of the old school in mind. If they specifically make another game that trys to cover all of the primary MMO market (the WoW audience) then they will not do well, simply because there is too much competition already doing that. If they cater to the more niche audience of old school MMOers, explorers, and roleplayers than I feel like they could still get a good chunk of the pie (1 million super dedicated subscribers). They claim to be doing this with by looking back and trying to make the game more like Everquest and not Everquest 2, but I think SOE is in bad shape right now financially so who knows if they'll even be able to follow through with it.
I agree with you there. SOE can't compete with all the competition for the "mainstream" audience. They've failed to beat WoW with EQ2 and they've even failed even more with SWG after the NGE (there was an interview with Smed claiming that SWG new game experience will kill WoW.. that was on 2005. It was hilarious.). It's SOE only but almost all MMORPGs tried to cater to the mainstream didn't deliver and a lot of them failed (shut down, went free to play..etc). If SOE is smart enough to win their "core" audience, the EverQuest fans those who wants to play something different (dangerous world, no instant traveling, random itemization just like EQ, no easy rewards, no FedEx quest grind...etc).
There are a lot of people playing the new Progression servers on EQ live and a lot of people playing Project 1999. It's true they are not 11million subs but this number is always going to be a mirage because if it's going to work it wont work for EQ, more like StarWars or any mainstream-friendly theme/genre. While in the other hand, there are at least 500,000 "core" players which would jump on EQ Next if and only if it delivers that kind of game play we've been begging for.
Umm...I want EQ next direction to be a fixed version of SWG (instead of jump to lightspeed, you get jump to seafaring) in a fantasy setting.
-crosses fingers-
We can dream cant we? :O
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni ( o.o) (")(") **This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
About as vague and precise as I care to be. Simply remaking Everquest isn't the answer to their own or anyone elses hopes I don't think, even as much as people would like to imagine that it is.
What they really should do is find some genius nerd out there in the world somewhere----a guy/gal who is truly enthusiastic about this stuff and just dying to make a fun game for people, and take a friggen chance on the guy. Hire him and let him design the game.
Push all their f-cking bean counters and whoever else has been designing their games off to the side and let some guy design a game just for the joy of designing a game. Designing a game to be a good game rather than as a gimmick to sucker money out of people.
But this is SOE we're talking about so what hope is there?
"While in the other hand, there are at least 500,000 "core" players which would jump on EQ Next if and only if it delivers that kind of game play we've been begging for."
I'd say 150,000 is much much closer to the actual number.
"While in the other hand, there are at least 500,000 "core" players which would jump on EQ Next if and only if it delivers that kind of game play we've been begging for."
I'd say 150,000 is much much closer to the actual number.
I don't know, if you consider all old school MMO numbers it should be a lot higher than that. FFXI at one point had about 1 million subscribers alone.
As long as you add the appropiate elements of modern games (dynamic questing and scaling is the way to go now) then you'll attract a few newcomers looking for something a little more challenging or a world to explore or a place to RP in. The market is much smaller than the one for WoW gamers, but it's still a very healthy number. Look at EVE and how it is thriving (or was at least until a change of payment model) on the niche player base. I know of a few people of the WoW generation I talked to who seemed to be interested in playing a game like EQ, but without all the hassles and ridiculously penalizing mechanics it had.
I'm not counting SOE out yet, I just don't have high hopes for them at the moment.
Since I don't feel that anyone at SOE has the talent to truly recapture the grandure of the original EQ, and even if some of them did the handy capable SOE management would still find a way to screw it up, I think I would like EQ Next to take the same direction as The Agency.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
There are fewer old-school players than generally assumed. A lot of players think they want old-school games but in reality they do not.
Example: Vanguard. The minor bug or grind sent some 'old-school' players into rage mode at Silky Vendom. Hundreds of QQ threads about the grind.
Exactly. There are enough to profitably support a game if it doesn't have a bloated development budget but it would be a small niche game. No larger than EVE for sure and CCP pulls in what, 300K? 350K? I'd say 1/2 that for a new 'old-skool' game.
"While in the other hand, there are at least 500,000 "core" players which would jump on EQ Next if and only if it delivers that kind of game play we've been begging for."
I'd say 150,000 is much much closer to the actual number.
I don't know, if you consider all old school MMO numbers it should be a lot higher than that. FFXI at one point had about 1 million subscribers alone.
As long as you add the appropiate elements of modern games (dynamic questing and scaling is the way to go now) then you'll attract a few newcomers looking for something a little more challenging or a world to explore or a place to RP in. The market is much smaller than the one for WoW gamers, but it's still a very healthy number. Look at EVE and how it is thriving (or was at least until a change of payment model) on the niche player base. I know of a few people of the WoW generation I talked to who seemed to be interested in playing a game like EQ, but without all the hassles and ridiculously penalizing mechanics it had.
I'm not counting SOE out yet, I just don't have high hopes for them at the moment.
Where did you hear that FFXI had near a million? The number I've heard most often is they capped at around 450k or that it never reached EQ's top population which was around 450k.
Regardless there are enough people that want an old school like MMO to fille A game.
The real question is are there enough people that want THAT PARTICULAR game. Remember every design decision reduces your player base.
So (pulling numbers out of the air for reference). Say there are 1 million people that like old school MMO's.
Decision number 1 - Fantasy - now there are only 700,000
Decision number 2 - no FFA, full loot - now there are 500,000
So by the time the game is finished there are only 250,000ish people that may like that particular game. Now what is the chance that they will ALL buy and surbscribe to it. ZILCH - estimate is 20%. So now you have 50,000 people playing the game. Is that enough for the game to survive? Maybe, how much did it cost to make?
Venge
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
There are fewer old-school players than generally assumed. A lot of players think they want old-school games but in reality they do not.
Example: Vanguard. The minor bug or grind sent some 'old-school' players into rage mode at Silky Vendom. Hundreds of QQ threads about the grind.
I know I personally don't want an old school game. I'm also perfectly fine with games that aren't old school too (GW2 and TSW get me all giddy inside). What I'd like for EQ Next to have is that old school feeling. Taking the good mechanics of the old and blending it with the new. To break it down I'd like:
- Removal of the quest grind and pointless linear quests (go kill ten rats, deliver this letter for me, etc.). No help with the quests aside from immersive clues. Dynamic mechanics like those in GW2 would probably do a good job of this and keep things quest.
- Focus on open-world play rather than instanced scripted dungeons. Again, the new dynamic event mechanics will help with this.
- Larger and more dangerous world to explore. High level monsters running around in low level areas that you want to go back and kill.
- Less focus on instant travel and more on making travel important. No huge waits on travel (like in EQ), and while I'm travelling events and things should happen (pirates and sea monsters should attack a boat for instance).
- Death penalty matters, but not to the extreme like it was in other old school MMOs.
- A better UI, something more akin to WoW.
- Achievements, preferably something along the lines of Warhammer's Tome of Knowledge.
- GM run large scale events like they had in EQ.
- Minor sandbox elements - EQ had none, it was the original themepark game. I'd love to see some incorporated here like player housing and boat construction that has an effect in the open world.
- Faster paced combat than EQ had, much faster, with far less downtime.
- Less itemization creep (it started getting bad in Velious) and more creative itemization like EQ had with various items that could be acquired at low level, but stayed with you throughout all levels of play.
- Public grouping options and a robust LFG tool.
- Something like EQ's Bazaar, but if you merchant you can set it to sell when you are offline. Preferably some sandboxy element that lets you setup shops somewhere.
- No ridiculous key and attunement requirements. Raiding should have accessible points at all modes of play. Raid content should also be less of a priority for them than it was in both Everquest games. Focus should be more on smaller group and public content where raiding is an option for the hardcore, but not the primary focus of the game.
- More group play and less solo oriented play, though solo play is always available I think it's catered to far too much in modern MMOs.
Comments
I would really like to see EQ break with history and the current MMO mechanisms and do something different. SoE and the much of the existing MMO playerbase are familiar with the land of Norrath. It is a good mythology, familiar yet with enough wonder to keep the basic world premise interesting.
I'd like to see them build on this legacy. Give the player different ways to determine success within this world. Give the player an opportunity to become an advisor to one of the rulers of the ciry. Don't base the game on levels only earned by endless, repetitive grinding. Use the mini-game Diplomacy aspect from Vanguard to build factions. Include a reputation system from the start, and quests are given once the appropriate faction is achieved. Include some unique quests -- not everyone should be sent to carry a message to X. -- one player per server gets the opportunity to do this, and if they fail, then another player could get the quest. Focus the game on deeds, not number of kills. I was involved in the group that drove the gnoll warrior, Marg from the territory. Every player does not need to be involved in every great deed/event/quest.
Give us a viable, limited economy with honest to goodness supply and demand tradeskills -- the concept of making items merely to get skill is fundamentally flawed. NPC merchants shouldn't be unlimited dumping grounds for the 128 chain greaves you made to skill up to the next level. And there's way a real mideval tailor would have an apprentice making full shirts just to learn how -- they practiced stitching and cutting on scraps. And why is everyone allowed to be a craftsman in every single craft?
Build the in-game community, and involve them in the real virtual life in Norrath. Have elections for the Freeport Ciry Council. Maybe one councilman has a public scandal. Give us tools to Role Play other than a chat system. Allow the players to vote on other characters persona. If player X acts greedy, it should affect their game reputation, if they are generous, they should get a repuatation for being generous (and that specific personal trait should be integrated into the trade window). Give us statistics that are meaningful, and groups that are essential. It's Massively Multiplayer, not Online Solo in a Common World.
If the game is going to have a cash shop, plan it from the beginning, and don't make it a crutial path to advancement. Give the player fashions and items that do not affect combat. Give the players reasons in-game to want to use these items. (You are cordially invited to attend the Mayor's Ball) of Qeynos).
More importantly, craft into the functional game system the ability for GMs to interactively manipulate the game environment, running localized events. Hire specific people to craft scripts and run these events -- frequently. These advasarial managers should be able to collect the orcs in East Commonlands and have them rush towards the guards -- with a reasonable possibility of winning! Dynamic content and quests are superior, and defeat the various cheat sites. Present the players with problems, and let them solve it (not resort to spoiler_site_001 to see what to do).
Breaking the MMO cycle of kill, loot, heal, rest, rince and repeat would be revolutionary. It could shift the concepts, anticipations and expectations of the MMO crowd, giving us new and more interesting ways to experoemce gaming. I believe it would take immense effort.. I'd love to see EQ Next push the boundaries of what we think of as gaming to a next level. Think revolutionary, not evolutionary.
But, I won't hold my breath.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
wont happen this, they didnt have them on at release of EQ2 and it got added by demand of the players....one of many things people asked changed compared to how that game were at release, SOE listen abit too much to their players, instead of staying on a firm direction for the game...so we end up with this pure instance grinder we got today.
on topic they said last year that they aim on making EQ3 a iteration of EQ1 but giving Norrath a new faith than the original game, so remaking the world story....but exactly what they mean when saying they look more toward EQ1 than EQ2, Id want to see before getting false hope, would still expect a more casual friendly rather than harsher
It doesn't matter what we want, they're going to make whatever they think will make the most money with the least amount of time and money.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Honestly I think soe is about to blow it. We already have eq, and eq2. Why do we need a third one and further divide the game player base.
What I am worried about is them shutting down both eq, and eq2 and forcing us to eq next.
Soe has been know to pull bs like this before.
I choose Classic EQ as the direction i would like to see, but with some changes.
EQ was a harsh world, and you didn't always have a friend to do those long runs with you. (Being a Warrior, i always had to run farther then my caster buddies........... I pulled the short straw in that deal big time.)
It was so frustrating, being the "meatshield" if things went bad i was expected to be the rear guard as we escaped the zone. Well, being a fat ogre i didn't always outrun the stuff that was trying to eat me and my group. Then i would spend the next X minutes trying to get back to the group naked. Again, being an Ogre everything and its sister wanted me dead. So it was a naked sprint back to the group, which did not always work out. Add to that this was on Rallos Zek, ffa pvp. Randomly having your screen go black, and then hearing your computer start to load before you could see again just to find out you're back at your spawn point.
So, yeah classic was great, but there are some things i don't wish to relive.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
- John Galt
I too would LOVE to see EQ1 updated with better graphic and animations. EQ1 was pretty harsh, but it made you think before you acted. The grouping aspect of the game was excellent. If they took EQ1 and revamped the graphics and animations, they would get people to comeback. I still get excited when I hear of people referring to EQ1, it was the MMO that really pulled me into MMOs and I base most of my harsh judgements of games against it.
If you died is a bad spot, guess what, it was going to be a long night. They had a great idea. There are some things that desperately need to be tweaked, of course. Not many people are into corpse runs any more, they may have to tweak that. But other than that, hey, the game was pretty amazing and immersive. If they could get the game back in ship shape I think they would have a winner on their hands again instead of their latest set of travesties.
WinnTech
Naked corpse runs never made me a happy camper. That being said I found some other game's approaches to death penalties to be good.
DAOC's Tombstone Runs were decent, and were also harsh because of re-spawns. You didn't have to worry about having to lose your hard earned equipment, but if you wanted that XP back you had to make the run.
I agree that the Death penalty has grown too soft since the "good old days" but at the same time, I don't want to go back to the way things were. Death penalties should be hard enough to seriously make a person fear death, but no harder. I remember playing conan where the death penalty was so light, that blood warping was one of the fastest ways to travel. I'd jump off of a cliff and die simply to travel halfway across the zone.
That being said, playing a game like FF11 where dying cost you 10% of the xp required to get to the next level AND potentially losing levels was a bad thing. Especially when you got to higher levels and the xp curve was such that it might take you 10 hours of game play or more to get that 10%.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
Lol Sony is out of Cash, now I have heard everything.
How can you even say that in a public forum? You cannot be that native, really?
You do understand that SOE is apart of Sony and Sony is a very successful company.
Sooner or Later
Modern EQ is actually pretty group friendly. There is quite a bit to do in EQ today for people that have no interest in raiding. The problem EQ has today is there is no stepping stone between single group stuff and full blown 54 man raids, and with the dwindling player base rounding up 54 people to raid is getting more and more difficult.
However, I would count on EQ:Next at least having some sort of large scale (large number of people) raids. That is the niche EQ1 has carved out for itself in the modern day and I would imagine EQ:Next will have large raids also, though I'd imagine you'll see smaller raids as well.
Hahah ok well you can think that but take away the fact that EQ 1 is still going strong ... EQ 2 is going very well ... there SONY there not going anywhere if anything they will just snatch up a bunch more little comapnies and put there games on the SoE umbrella.
Sony has more money then about 85 - 90% of all gaming companies out there.
Honor, Valor, Truth are in the heart of the true and the one.
- Gereth Deepdale
Closer to Everquest than Everquest 2.
About as vague and precise as I care to be. Simply remaking Everquest isn't the answer to their own or anyone elses hopes I don't think, even as much as people would like to imagine that it is.
troll?
SoE had to cancel The Agency, closed 3 studios, and fired half of their staff 2 months ago.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/33836/SOE_Hit_With_205_Layoffs_Three_Studio_Closures_Agency_Cancelled.php
Sony Japan has absolutely nothing to do with SoE, they're part of SCEA, which is part of SCE which answers to Sony, but the 2 companies operate independently.
you're joking right
There are a lot of things I would want for EQ Next.
The problem is I feel SOE is too in touch with a failed money making philosophy rather than the gamers they want to sale a product too. I have this little nightmare of it being a PS3 game ported to PC with poor UI, no social tools outside of shoddy voice, bugs riddled throughout play from a rush to early launch, only enough content for a couple of weeks, and a focus on pure action game play. Basically a co-op single player game labeled as an MMORPG or pretty much DCUO all over again.
edit: at least it would "look" great. You know, like those hamburgers on the commercials.
I agree with you there. SOE can't compete with all the competition for the "mainstream" audience. They've failed to beat WoW with EQ2 and they've even failed even more with SWG after the NGE (there was an interview with Smed claiming that SWG new game experience will kill WoW.. that was on 2005. It was hilarious.). It's SOE only but almost all MMORPGs tried to cater to the mainstream didn't deliver and a lot of them failed (shut down, went free to play..etc). If SOE is smart enough to win their "core" audience, the EverQuest fans those who wants to play something different (dangerous world, no instant traveling, random itemization just like EQ, no easy rewards, no FedEx quest grind...etc).
There are a lot of people playing the new Progression servers on EQ live and a lot of people playing Project 1999. It's true they are not 11million subs but this number is always going to be a mirage because if it's going to work it wont work for EQ, more like StarWars or any mainstream-friendly theme/genre. While in the other hand, there are at least 500,000 "core" players which would jump on EQ Next if and only if it delivers that kind of game play we've been begging for.
Umm...I want EQ next direction to be a fixed version of SWG (instead of jump to lightspeed, you get jump to seafaring) in a fantasy setting.
-crosses fingers-
We can dream cant we? :O
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni
( o.o)
(")(")
**This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
Care to elaborate?
What they really should do is find some genius nerd out there in the world somewhere----a guy/gal who is truly enthusiastic about this stuff and just dying to make a fun game for people, and take a friggen chance on the guy. Hire him and let him design the game.
Push all their f-cking bean counters and whoever else has been designing their games off to the side and let some guy design a game just for the joy of designing a game. Designing a game to be a good game rather than as a gimmick to sucker money out of people.
But this is SOE we're talking about so what hope is there?
"While in the other hand, there are at least 500,000 "core" players which would jump on EQ Next if and only if it delivers that kind of game play we've been begging for."
I'd say 150,000 is much much closer to the actual number.
I don't know, if you consider all old school MMO numbers it should be a lot higher than that. FFXI at one point had about 1 million subscribers alone.
As long as you add the appropiate elements of modern games (dynamic questing and scaling is the way to go now) then you'll attract a few newcomers looking for something a little more challenging or a world to explore or a place to RP in. The market is much smaller than the one for WoW gamers, but it's still a very healthy number. Look at EVE and how it is thriving (or was at least until a change of payment model) on the niche player base. I know of a few people of the WoW generation I talked to who seemed to be interested in playing a game like EQ, but without all the hassles and ridiculously penalizing mechanics it had.
I'm not counting SOE out yet, I just don't have high hopes for them at the moment.
Since I don't feel that anyone at SOE has the talent to truly recapture the grandure of the original EQ, and even if some of them did the handy capable SOE management would still find a way to screw it up, I think I would like EQ Next to take the same direction as The Agency.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
There are fewer old-school players than generally assumed. A lot of players think they want old-school games but in reality they do not.
Example: Vanguard. The minor bug or grind sent some 'old-school' players into rage mode at Silky Vendom. Hundreds of QQ threads about the grind.
Exactly. There are enough to profitably support a game if it doesn't have a bloated development budget but it would be a small niche game. No larger than EVE for sure and CCP pulls in what, 300K? 350K? I'd say 1/2 that for a new 'old-skool' game.
Where did you hear that FFXI had near a million? The number I've heard most often is they capped at around 450k or that it never reached EQ's top population which was around 450k.
Regardless there are enough people that want an old school like MMO to fille A game.
The real question is are there enough people that want THAT PARTICULAR game. Remember every design decision reduces your player base.
So (pulling numbers out of the air for reference). Say there are 1 million people that like old school MMO's.
Decision number 1 - Fantasy - now there are only 700,000
Decision number 2 - no FFA, full loot - now there are 500,000
#3 - instances - 400,000
#4 - battlegrounds - 350,000
$5 no housing or flight - 300,000
... you get the idea.
So by the time the game is finished there are only 250,000ish people that may like that particular game. Now what is the chance that they will ALL buy and surbscribe to it. ZILCH - estimate is 20%. So now you have 50,000 people playing the game. Is that enough for the game to survive? Maybe, how much did it cost to make?
Venge
I know I personally don't want an old school game. I'm also perfectly fine with games that aren't old school too (GW2 and TSW get me all giddy inside). What I'd like for EQ Next to have is that old school feeling. Taking the good mechanics of the old and blending it with the new. To break it down I'd like:
- Removal of the quest grind and pointless linear quests (go kill ten rats, deliver this letter for me, etc.). No help with the quests aside from immersive clues. Dynamic mechanics like those in GW2 would probably do a good job of this and keep things quest.
- Focus on open-world play rather than instanced scripted dungeons. Again, the new dynamic event mechanics will help with this.
- Larger and more dangerous world to explore. High level monsters running around in low level areas that you want to go back and kill.
- Less focus on instant travel and more on making travel important. No huge waits on travel (like in EQ), and while I'm travelling events and things should happen (pirates and sea monsters should attack a boat for instance).
- Death penalty matters, but not to the extreme like it was in other old school MMOs.
- A better UI, something more akin to WoW.
- Achievements, preferably something along the lines of Warhammer's Tome of Knowledge.
- GM run large scale events like they had in EQ.
- Minor sandbox elements - EQ had none, it was the original themepark game. I'd love to see some incorporated here like player housing and boat construction that has an effect in the open world.
- Faster paced combat than EQ had, much faster, with far less downtime.
- Less itemization creep (it started getting bad in Velious) and more creative itemization like EQ had with various items that could be acquired at low level, but stayed with you throughout all levels of play.
- Public grouping options and a robust LFG tool.
- Something like EQ's Bazaar, but if you merchant you can set it to sell when you are offline. Preferably some sandboxy element that lets you setup shops somewhere.
- No ridiculous key and attunement requirements. Raiding should have accessible points at all modes of play. Raid content should also be less of a priority for them than it was in both Everquest games. Focus should be more on smaller group and public content where raiding is an option for the hardcore, but not the primary focus of the game.
- More group play and less solo oriented play, though solo play is always available I think it's catered to far too much in modern MMOs.