It doesn't matter what kind of gameplay they have in the game... it will get repetative, and monotonous, because they can only have so many ways to play.
That's the nature of video games. Whether or not you have to grind for anything doesn't matter... the game WILL get boring, which I guess you can associate with grind.
I don't know how much it won't be a gear grinder. Though I do know I will not be happy if they implement anything that would kind of force you to log in everyday or else you feel left behind.
Originally posted by sidhaethe Yeah, ArenaNet are just staying up all night worried about player retention when they don't have subscriptions to lose
ArenaNet will probably be up all night worried about player retention when they need people buying stuff from the cash shop. The less people playing the less people there are to spend money in the cash shop. Thats how cash shop MMOs like GW2 work.
Can you think of an MMO released ever where the devs said there would NOT be raids and then there WERE, instead of the other way around? Do you imagine ArenaNet will slip in all this raid content secretly to surprise people?
It doesnt matter what the devs want, it only matters what the players want.
During Rift's closed beta Trion said that class balance was an impossible goal so it would not be a priority for them. However, every update to Rift has seen huge amounts of class balancing.
If the players demand instanced raids in GW2 then ArenaNet will give the players instanced raids.
If you think the players are going to be content with GW2s meager end game content just because it has "fun gameplay" then you are sadly mistaken.
Yeah, ArenaNet are just staying up all night worried about player retention when they don't have subscriptions to lose, an entire audience of GW1 players, single-player fans who hate MMOs, and MMO players who are burned out on raids entirely.
They've decided on their audience, and it's not you. Fortunately for them, everyone else's money is just as green.
If you think Arenanet isn't worried about player retention you'd be wrong.
Sure they may not need people to keep paying subs to play their game but they need to offer enough and keep people happy with what they do give so people will buy the expanions.
A bored or pissed off customer won't buy your expansion any sooner then they will pay a sub. If Arenanet disappoints too many people the amount of people buying the boxes or shopping in the cash shop will drop off and then you have similar problems you have with MMOs.
It's a long running game (or it's suppose to be) it's not like how single player games work where they make a game and it's done. Here they need people to keep buying the game expansions and shoping in the shop to suppliment the cash they need to make expansions so people don't get bored after a while and always have new stuff coming.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Can you think of an MMO released ever where the devs said there would NOT be raids and then there WERE, instead of the other way around? Do you imagine ArenaNet will slip in all this raid content secretly to surprise people?
It doesnt matter what the devs want, it only matters what the players want.
During Rift's closed beta Trion said that class balance was an impossible goal so it would not be a priority for them. However, every update to Rift has seen huge amounts of class balancing.
If the players demand instanced raids in GW2 then ArenaNet will give the players instanced raids.
If you think the players are going to be content with GW2s meager end game content just because it has "fun gameplay" then you are sadly mistaken.
Yeah, ArenaNet are just staying up all night worried about player retention when they don't have subscriptions to lose, an entire audience of GW1 players, single-player fans who hate MMOs, and MMO players who are burned out on raids entirely.
They've decided on their audience, and it's not you. Fortunately for them, everyone else's money is just as green.
If you think Arenanet isn't worried about player retention you'd be wrong.
Sure they may not need people to keep paying subs to play their game but they need to offer enough and keep people happy with what they do give so people will buy the expanions.
A bored or pissed off customer won't buy your expansion any sooner then they will pay a sub. If Arenanet disappoints too many people the amount of people buying the boxes or shopping in the cash shop will drop off and then you have similar problems you have with MMOs.
It's a long running game (or it's suppose to be) it's not like how single player games work where they make a game and it's done. Here they need people to keep buying the game expansions and shoping in the shop to suppliment the cash they need to make expansions so people don't get bored after a while and always have new stuff coming.
I agree...and just to add to this, I'm sure that ANet would like to make more games in the future (Guild Wars 3?). They currently have a valuable asset in the amount of goodwill they have built up for the ArenaNet brand with Guild Wars 1. Basically, people perceive ANet as a quality studio.
If they put out an MMORPG that only keeps people occupied for a month, they stand to lose a lot of their brand value. This could impact the profits of future games made under the ANet brand.
They've decided on their audience, and it's not you. Fortunately for them, everyone else's money is just as green.
If you think Arenanet isn't worried about player retention you'd be wrong.
Sure they may not need people to keep paying subs to play their game but they need to offer enough and keep people happy with what they do give so people will buy the expanions.
A bored or pissed off customer won't buy your expansion any sooner then they will pay a sub. If Arenanet disappoints too many people the amount of people buying the boxes or shopping in the cash shop will drop off and then you have similar problems you have with MMOs.
It's a long running game (or it's suppose to be) it's not like how single player games work where they make a game and it's done. Here they need people to keep buying the game expansions and shoping in the shop to suppliment the cash they need to make expansions so people don't get bored after a while and always have new stuff coming.
I agree...and just to add to this, I'm sure that ANet would like to make more games in the future (Guild Wars 3?). They currently have a valuable asset in the amount of goodwill they have built up for the ArenaNet brand with Guild Wars 1. Basically, people perceive ANet as a quality studio.
If they put out an MMORPG that only keeps people occupied for a month, they stand to lose a lot of their brand value. This could impact the profits of future games made under the ANet brand.
You both missed the key part of what Sidhaethe was saying so I marked it in RED for you. Guess what guys the percentage of gamers that play pay to play MMOs is the smallest percentage of gamers in the U.S.A. (Not sure about the rest of the word). Now let’s see should ANet go for the 87% that do not play pay to play MMOs or the 13% that does, I wonder which has the larger income pool?
Also Whilan what single player genre have you been watching, just about every game now days is made with sequels in mind. Like Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3, or Gears of War 1,2, and 3; so where is this genre where single player games are you make a game and it’s done? Please show it to me I would be very interested in seeing a gaming industry without sequels and expansions dominating it.
Now here is a novel concept in order for ArenaNet to be successful they would only have to do the same things that Bioware and Epic games have done with their franchises. Because guess what they both have done everything you described, they make DLC to have continues income and they had to make a great game to keep people buying expansions or sequels. Wow so I guess there is not as much difference between single player games and GW2 business model as people think!
But nothing that was said here invalidates what Sidhaethe said at the start, GW2 is not being made for raiders and people that are obsessed with getting gear so they are better than everyone else playing the game. And it does not have to be, there is a huge group of people that do not play those games or are burnt out on them to make their money from. The only thing ANet has to do is make a great game!
They've decided on their audience, and it's not you. Fortunately for them, everyone else's money is just as green.
If you think Arenanet isn't worried about player retention you'd be wrong.
Sure they may not need people to keep paying subs to play their game but they need to offer enough and keep people happy with what they do give so people will buy the expanions.
A bored or pissed off customer won't buy your expansion any sooner then they will pay a sub. If Arenanet disappoints too many people the amount of people buying the boxes or shopping in the cash shop will drop off and then you have similar problems you have with MMOs.
It's a long running game (or it's suppose to be) it's not like how single player games work where they make a game and it's done. Here they need people to keep buying the game expansions and shoping in the shop to suppliment the cash they need to make expansions so people don't get bored after a while and always have new stuff coming.
I agree...and just to add to this, I'm sure that ANet would like to make more games in the future (Guild Wars 3?). They currently have a valuable asset in the amount of goodwill they have built up for the ArenaNet brand with Guild Wars 1. Basically, people perceive ANet as a quality studio.
If they put out an MMORPG that only keeps people occupied for a month, they stand to lose a lot of their brand value. This could impact the profits of future games made under the ANet brand.
You both missed the key part of what Sidhaethe was saying so I marked it in RED for you. Guess what guys the percentage of gamers that play pay to play MMOs is the smallest percentage of gamers in the U.S.A. (Not sure about the rest of the word). Now let’s see should ANet go for the 87% that do not play pay to play MMOs or the 13% that does, I wonder which has the larger income pool?
Also Whilan what single player genre have you been watching, just about every game now days is made with sequels in mind. Like Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3, or Gears of War 1,2, and 3; so where is this genre where single player games are you make a game and it’s done? Please show it to me I would be very interested in seeing a gaming industry without sequels and expansions dominating it.
Now here is a novel concept in order for ArenaNet to be successful they would only have to do the same things that Bioware and Epic games have done with their franchises. Because guess what they both have done everything you described, they make DLC to have continues income and they had to make a great game to keep people buying expansions or sequels. Wow so I guess there is not as much difference between single player games and GW2 business model as people think!
But nothing that was said here invalidates what Sidhaethe said at the start, GW2 is not being made for raiders and people that are obsessed with getting gear so they are better than everyone else playing the game. And it does not have to be, there is a huge group of people that do not play those games or are burnt out on them to make their money from. The only thing ANet has to do is make a great game!
Regardless, if people aren't satisfied with what the game has to offer they won't buy the expanisions. Keeping people interested in your game so they buy expansions is part of player retention. Guild wars 2 does have servers that they need to keep up, and the only way GW2 is going to get money is either by A people buying the game or expansions or B getting people to shop in the cash shop. GW2 doesn't have a sub fee of consistant resources to fall back on to get more money.
If people don't buy the expanions cause they are mad or bored of the game and they get their friends not to buy the game that hurts sales ala their money. This is true of P2P games as well. But the point was that GW2 is not exempt from this, They need to keep their players happy and interested in the game if they hope to sell the later expansions.
Just to quick hit on what i meant. Sequels are continutious of the game but thats at their choosing. People play those for a few hours and call it done. Now if people are planing to play GW2 only for a short time then that idea is okay. However if they plan to play it long term, then you run into problems with content. What do you do after you finished up all the DEs, done some of the pvp and did whatever dungeons they have? Once your bored you usually stop playing. If you stopped playing the chances are greater that you really won't start playing again as you'll moved onto something else.
I'm not saying they should start adding raids or whatever, i'm just saying they need to keep their players happy and interested...thought that was obvious.
As for the quote, yeah others peoples money is just as green, but you also have this thing called word of mouth, if too manyh people call the game boring (for whatever reason) then other people are likely to not even buy the box.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Regardless, if people aren't satisfied with what the game has to offer they won't buy the expanisions. Keeping people interested in your game so they buy expansions is part of player retention. Guild wars 2 does have servers that they need to keep up, and the only way GW2 is going to get money is either by A people buying the game or expansions or B getting people to shop in the cash shop. GW2 doesn't have a sub fee of consistant resources to fall back on to get more money.
If people don't buy the expanions cause they are mad or bored of the game and they get their friends not to buy the game that hurts sales ala their money. This is true of P2P games as well. But the point was that GW2 is not exempt from this, They need to keep their players happy and interested in the game if they hope to sell the later expansions.
Just to quick hit on what i meant. Sequels are continutious of the game but thats at their choosing. People play those for a few hours and call it done. Now if people are planing to play GW2 only for a short time then that idea is okay. However if they plan to play it long term, then you run into problems with content. What do you do after you finished up all the DEs, done some of the pvp and did whatever dungeons they have? Once your bored you usually stop playing. If you stopped playing the chances are greater that you really won't start playing again as you'll moved onto something else.
I'm not saying they should start adding raids or whatever, i'm just saying they need to keep their players happy and interested...thought that was obvious.
As for the quote, yeah others peoples money is just as green, but you also have this thing called word of mouth, if too manyh people call the game boring (for whatever reason) then other people are likely to not even buy the box.
What where is your proof for what you said in Red, I want to see evidence that there is a greater chance you will not return to a game if you played it for 1000 hours and got bored and moved to a new game! So I take then you have never got bored with a pay to play MMO left then came back to check it out when a expansion is released? Actually the trend in WoW completely disagrees with your conclusion, ever time Blizzard releases an expansion their numbers spike from new players and old players that were bored returning.
I honestly cannot see the hard core MMO addicts lasting in GW2, but GW2 does not need them. All the people that bounce from one WoW expansion or another; or if GW2 draws in any of that 87% that does not play pay to play MMOs they will make money. But until the game releases no one knows if they will buy the expansion, they can rave or say hell no all they want, until you get the finish product and play it you will never know if you will like it or not. I personally plan to play GW2 just like I played GW1; I might play it for a few months then maybe take a break for a month or two and come back. Guess what there is a bunch of people that do this, and GW2 can easily survive off of these people if they make a great game. As for the hard core, there are tons of MMOs out there they can play if GW2 does not meet their expectations on how life sucking a MMO should be.
As for your part in green, so did GW1 and your point is?
Just to quick hit on what i meant. Sequels are continutious of the game but thats at their choosing. People play those for a few hours and call it done. Now if people are planing to play GW2 only for a short time then that idea is okay. However if they plan to play it long term, then you run into problems with content. What do you do after you finished up all the DEs, done some of the pvp and did whatever dungeons they have? Once your bored you usually stop playing. If you stopped playing the chances are greater that you really won't start playing again as you'll moved onto something else.
Just as a side note, it's a LOT more convenient to get back into playing a B2P game than it is a P2P game.
Especially a B2P game with a certain level of power ceiling.
If I ever want to PvP in GW1 (Which occassionally I do), I don't have to worry I'm behind some sort of horribly steep gear curve... I just have to catch up to current tactics a bit (Rather than having to do both).
Yeah, any game you stop playing, there's a chance you won't come back, but at least with a B2P you know the game is always waiting for you whenever you want, like if a friend says 'Hey, I got GW2, didn't you have that? Want to come help me out?'
Comments
It doesn't matter what kind of gameplay they have in the game... it will get repetative, and monotonous, because they can only have so many ways to play.
That's the nature of video games. Whether or not you have to grind for anything doesn't matter... the game WILL get boring, which I guess you can associate with grind.
I don't know how much it won't be a gear grinder. Though I do know I will not be happy if they implement anything that would kind of force you to log in everyday or else you feel left behind.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
If you think Arenanet isn't worried about player retention you'd be wrong.
Sure they may not need people to keep paying subs to play their game but they need to offer enough and keep people happy with what they do give so people will buy the expanions.
A bored or pissed off customer won't buy your expansion any sooner then they will pay a sub. If Arenanet disappoints too many people the amount of people buying the boxes or shopping in the cash shop will drop off and then you have similar problems you have with MMOs.
It's a long running game (or it's suppose to be) it's not like how single player games work where they make a game and it's done. Here they need people to keep buying the game expansions and shoping in the shop to suppliment the cash they need to make expansions so people don't get bored after a while and always have new stuff coming.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I agree...and just to add to this, I'm sure that ANet would like to make more games in the future (Guild Wars 3?). They currently have a valuable asset in the amount of goodwill they have built up for the ArenaNet brand with Guild Wars 1. Basically, people perceive ANet as a quality studio.
If they put out an MMORPG that only keeps people occupied for a month, they stand to lose a lot of their brand value. This could impact the profits of future games made under the ANet brand.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
You both missed the key part of what Sidhaethe was saying so I marked it in RED for you. Guess what guys the percentage of gamers that play pay to play MMOs is the smallest percentage of gamers in the U.S.A. (Not sure about the rest of the word). Now let’s see should ANet go for the 87% that do not play pay to play MMOs or the 13% that does, I wonder which has the larger income pool?
Also Whilan what single player genre have you been watching, just about every game now days is made with sequels in mind. Like Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3, or Gears of War 1,2, and 3; so where is this genre where single player games are you make a game and it’s done? Please show it to me I would be very interested in seeing a gaming industry without sequels and expansions dominating it.
Now here is a novel concept in order for ArenaNet to be successful they would only have to do the same things that Bioware and Epic games have done with their franchises. Because guess what they both have done everything you described, they make DLC to have continues income and they had to make a great game to keep people buying expansions or sequels. Wow so I guess there is not as much difference between single player games and GW2 business model as people think!
But nothing that was said here invalidates what Sidhaethe said at the start, GW2 is not being made for raiders and people that are obsessed with getting gear so they are better than everyone else playing the game. And it does not have to be, there is a huge group of people that do not play those games or are burnt out on them to make their money from. The only thing ANet has to do is make a great game!
Regardless, if people aren't satisfied with what the game has to offer they won't buy the expanisions. Keeping people interested in your game so they buy expansions is part of player retention. Guild wars 2 does have servers that they need to keep up, and the only way GW2 is going to get money is either by A people buying the game or expansions or B getting people to shop in the cash shop. GW2 doesn't have a sub fee of consistant resources to fall back on to get more money.
If people don't buy the expanions cause they are mad or bored of the game and they get their friends not to buy the game that hurts sales ala their money. This is true of P2P games as well. But the point was that GW2 is not exempt from this, They need to keep their players happy and interested in the game if they hope to sell the later expansions.
Just to quick hit on what i meant. Sequels are continutious of the game but thats at their choosing. People play those for a few hours and call it done. Now if people are planing to play GW2 only for a short time then that idea is okay. However if they plan to play it long term, then you run into problems with content. What do you do after you finished up all the DEs, done some of the pvp and did whatever dungeons they have? Once your bored you usually stop playing. If you stopped playing the chances are greater that you really won't start playing again as you'll moved onto something else.
I'm not saying they should start adding raids or whatever, i'm just saying they need to keep their players happy and interested...thought that was obvious.
As for the quote, yeah others peoples money is just as green, but you also have this thing called word of mouth, if too manyh people call the game boring (for whatever reason) then other people are likely to not even buy the box.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
What where is your proof for what you said in Red, I want to see evidence that there is a greater chance you will not return to a game if you played it for 1000 hours and got bored and moved to a new game! So I take then you have never got bored with a pay to play MMO left then came back to check it out when a expansion is released? Actually the trend in WoW completely disagrees with your conclusion, ever time Blizzard releases an expansion their numbers spike from new players and old players that were bored returning.
I honestly cannot see the hard core MMO addicts lasting in GW2, but GW2 does not need them. All the people that bounce from one WoW expansion or another; or if GW2 draws in any of that 87% that does not play pay to play MMOs they will make money. But until the game releases no one knows if they will buy the expansion, they can rave or say hell no all they want, until you get the finish product and play it you will never know if you will like it or not. I personally plan to play GW2 just like I played GW1; I might play it for a few months then maybe take a break for a month or two and come back. Guess what there is a bunch of people that do this, and GW2 can easily survive off of these people if they make a great game. As for the hard core, there are tons of MMOs out there they can play if GW2 does not meet their expectations on how life sucking a MMO should be.
As for your part in green, so did GW1 and your point is?
Just as a side note, it's a LOT more convenient to get back into playing a B2P game than it is a P2P game.
Especially a B2P game with a certain level of power ceiling.
If I ever want to PvP in GW1 (Which occassionally I do), I don't have to worry I'm behind some sort of horribly steep gear curve... I just have to catch up to current tactics a bit (Rather than having to do both).
Yeah, any game you stop playing, there's a chance you won't come back, but at least with a B2P you know the game is always waiting for you whenever you want, like if a friend says 'Hey, I got GW2, didn't you have that? Want to come help me out?'