i played rift for about 2 months. within 5 days gametime i was at max lvl, and i was not effective at all. level cap have been hit in 2 days as far as i know. then i had about a month worth of content which mainly consists of grinding alot of mobs and stuff from mobs.
Lets put it in these terms:
In Vanilla WoW, which at the time was considered a fast leveling game, the fastest to max level was over 4 days. This was after 18+ months of research, and addons to help quest faster and pre planning routes.
People leveled to Max in Rift in half that time as soon as the servers opened.
Not to mention that both Vanilla WoW and Everquest 2 had superior amount of content compared to RIFT. Not to mention different starter zones to level up in and so had immediately longetivity ingame due to making leveling up ALT's worthwile and fun!
While RIFT is a polished decent game, it just suffers due to the lack of content and having only one leveling path, making ALTing a borefest, as you end up doing the exact same thing.
Not to mention that both Vanilla WoW and Everquest 2 had superior amount of content compared to RIFT. Not to mention different starter zones to level up in and so had immediately longetivity ingame due to making leveling up ALT's worthwile and fun!
While RIFT is a polished decent game, it just suffers due to the lack of content and having only one leveling path, making ALTing a borefest, as you end up doing the exact same thing.
Rift seems like it was so concerned with its polish it forgot to add depth to its world. Not only is it faster and smaller, it just feels like its rushing you to max level.
WoW and EQ2 both have wonderful games on their way up. People in both games roll alts to see what they missed, or to experience again some of the highlights. The only real highlights in Rift are the rifts and dungeons, both of which you do at level 50 anyway.
No, the rest of your leveling is spent being sent to an area full of ridiculously dense mobs for two types of drops. Then you wade back through the pack of dense mobs unrelated to your quest to get back to quest giver. Then quest giver sends you back for two new types of items...from the same mobs...sooo its back through the dense mobs to get to the dense mobs. Only to be sent there a third time. I remember going through gloamwood and thinking you couldnt pay me to redo these quests again at that keep.
The quest lines are (mostly) boring and tedious, the zones are boring. Not only is there a lack of content, but whats there is (mostly) uninspiring. And this is most likely why Rift is faltering a bit now. Its subs are in decline despite it being a new game with regular updates in a stagnant marketplace.
sadly there will always be people that just have to bring the negaativity. Why? dunno, bad parents? bad life experince? who knows.
This is all the "wow clone" whiners do, my theory is that they enjoy being negative and I liken 99% of them to trolls that go in just to stir things up because they like the drama that ensues.
Notice most people that want to cry wow clone are mostly wow fanboys and they rarely make a valid point. The rest of them are people who just go around insulting things because they have nothing better to do.It is more like sniping remarks meant to get people worked up and sadly it seems to work as most people get all stired up about it.
Where I grew up we were taught to ignore the whiners because they were not worth your time, no matter how logical and valid of a point you make they will just find something else to whine about and it is a worthless pursuit to try to explain to anything to them or even to ask them to make a valid point.
Ignore them is the best advice, like the kid in grade school that did not hurt anyone but, always tried to start crap, this is the next version. not worth anyones time.
sadly there will always be people that just have to bring the negaativity. Why? dunno, bad parents? bad life experince? who knows.
This is all the "wow clone" whiners do, my theory is that they enjoy being negative and I liken 99% of them to trolls that go in just to stir things up because they like the drama that ensues.
Notice most people that want to cry wow clone are mostly wow fanboys and they rarely make a valid point. The rest of them are people who just go around insulting things because they have nothing better to do.It is more like sniping remarks meant to get people worked up and sadly it seems to work as most people get all stired up about it.
Where I grew up we were taught to ignore the whiners because they were not worth your time, no matter how logical and valid of a point you make they will just find something else to whine about and it is a worthless pursuit to try to explain to anything to them or even to ask them to make a valid point.
Ignore them is the best advice, like the kid in grade school that did not hurt anyone but, always tried to start crap, this is the next version. not worth anyones time.
Calling every critic a WoW fanboi, makes you look like a Rift fanboi and rather short sighted and hypocritical!
Rift is proof that the mmorpg genre as a whole is tired of the same old themepark play we've had for years now.
It's an extremely well done game and other than leveling content (which most people find trivial) its vastly superior to WoW in every way.
Yet they arent blazing the way for mmos like WoW did. Sure the game is crazy popular but if this game released at the same time as WOW in 2004 it would have put Blizzard out of business...
The fact that it hasent grown to be a phenomenon gives me hope for the future of our genre.
i played rift for about 2 months. within 5 days gametime i was at max lvl, and i was not effective at all. level cap have been hit in 2 days as far as i know. then i had about a month worth of content which mainly consists of grinding alot of mobs and stuff from mobs.
Lets put it in these terms:
In Vanilla WoW, which at the time was considered a fast leveling game, the fastest to max level was over 4 days. This was after 18+ months of research, and addons to help quest faster and pre planning routes.
People leveled to Max in Rift in half that time as soon as the servers opened.
Not to mention that both Vanilla WoW and Everquest 2 had superior amount of content compared to RIFT. Not to mention different starter zones to level up in and so had immediately longetivity ingame due to making leveling up ALT's worthwile and fun!
While RIFT is a polished decent game, it just suffers due to the lack of content and having only one leveling path, making ALTing a borefest, as you end up doing the exact same thing.
The lore is a bit on the dull side too, if they had hired decent writers to come up with a decent lore the leveling wouldn't be quite so dull.
- Dynamic zone and world events, No other mmo has this. In fact is is uber boring running around in a quest zone in any other mmo now, Nothing at all is happening. Except maby for a bit of pvp here and there its dull. You do your boring quests and hand in. Rinse and repeat. In rift the PVE raids you. Every 2 hours or so the entrire map changes and you hav to team up with other ppl to defend positions , take out bosses, destroy stuctures, many other variations .... Its fun and ties in to the story and breaks the manotony of regular grinding. The world event bosses are awesum to take down !! Its like raiding on the world map with hundreds of players. I cannot see that i will go back to any other existing mmo or even SWTOR, because lifeless zones will just be a bore.
- The ascended soul class system is uber. I have for the 100th time made completely different type of char. If you are bored there is no need to reroll with new class. U just change your souls. You hav 5 specs so no need to destroy the old ones either. And having 9 souls to choose from right from the start, makes wow's class classic types feel like a snooze. You can craft a character with specific things in mind. Example i made a self healing pvp warrior with complimentary abilities that boost each-other across souls, i made a uber tank that can stop a train, i made a high-dps-ing spec that can bring down an uber cleric and on and on. There is just so much that you could never do b4. Playing a game without this will be yawn..... zzzz. Swtor's classes now seem so boring. Hope the big universe makes up for it.
- in only 3 months rift already has 3 raids, 4 warfronts , many normal and expert instances that are completely different from one-another and a horde of different types of Raid and expert raid rifts that both hard and fun (especially if there is a enemy guild stalking you while trying to do one ). LOL @ rifts being only different looking. Wanna see you take on an expert raid death rift with your ( i have played to level cap in 2 days ) gear. There are also many raid zone quests and the new pvp-quests and content.
- the world and lore even without the dynamic events is very intersting and alive. There are a multitude of puzzles and hidden treasures all over. There are epic story quests, that absolutly rock. There are baddies that seem and feel realm with sum personality. The dragon lords are uber !! Azeroth is dead compared to this. each zone has a unique feeling and special vibe about it.
areas where rift needs work :
- more world pvp content : there has to be sum castle or sumthing to defend , sum reason to engage in pvp other than presige and favor.
- more lvl 50 epic story quests. (giving ger and stuff we actually need for raiding or R6 pvp )
- deeper crafting and gear enchantment (improvement options)
- more warfronts.
- world events that hav a deeper impact upon the world.
sadly there will always be people that just have to bring the negaativity. Why? dunno, bad parents? bad life experince? who knows.
This is all the "wow clone" whiners do, my theory is that they enjoy being negative and I liken 99% of them to trolls that go in just to stir things up because they like the drama that ensues.
Notice most people that want to cry wow clone are mostly wow fanboys and they rarely make a valid point. The rest of them are people who just go around insulting things because they have nothing better to do.It is more like sniping remarks meant to get people worked up and sadly it seems to work as most people get all stired up about it.
Where I grew up we were taught to ignore the whiners because they were not worth your time, no matter how logical and valid of a point you make they will just find something else to whine about and it is a worthless pursuit to try to explain to anything to them or even to ask them to make a valid point.
Ignore them is the best advice, like the kid in grade school that did not hurt anyone but, always tried to start crap, this is the next version. not worth anyones time.
Calling every critic a WoW fanboi, makes you look like a Rift fanboi and rather short sighted and hypocritical!
Just saying.
Only fault with that logic is I never played rift's and probaly never will. Why ? not because I think it is a clone or what ever other whine people have but, because it does not apeal to me. Unlike some people if I don't find a game appealing or interesting I don't play it. I do not go whining in there forums about how it does not have this or that or how they need to change this or that. Don't like it dont play it, the end.
My only real gripe with Rift is the lack of content variety. The levelling path is the same for all races and classes on each faction, as someone that loves levelling alts this is disappointing.
Long live SWTOR!
okay umm did you play wow?besides a few class specfic quests,each race follows it own path fo revery class.the difference is wow has multiple races that make up the faction and each race has a seperate starting area,but after you leave that you than follow the same path.so except for like 10 levels each race follows the same path depending on factions,wow thats the same as rift.
one last thing wow clones is a stupid label cause eoe was NOT the first mmorpg.eq had millions of players too.wow just incorporated the casual gamer better.
sadly there will always be people that just have to bring the negaativity. Why? dunno, bad parents? bad life experince? who knows.
This is all the "wow clone" whiners do, my theory is that they enjoy being negative and I liken 99% of them to trolls that go in just to stir things up because they like the drama that ensues.
Notice most people that want to cry wow clone are mostly wow fanboys and they rarely make a valid point. The rest of them are people who just go around insulting things because they have nothing better to do.It is more like sniping remarks meant to get people worked up and sadly it seems to work as most people get all stired up about it.
Where I grew up we were taught to ignore the whiners because they were not worth your time, no matter how logical and valid of a point you make they will just find something else to whine about and it is a worthless pursuit to try to explain to anything to them or even to ask them to make a valid point.
Ignore them is the best advice, like the kid in grade school that did not hurt anyone but, always tried to start crap, this is the next version. not worth anyones time.
Calling every critic a WoW fanboi, makes you look like a Rift fanboi and rather short sighted and hypocritical!
Just saying.
Only fault with that logic is I never played rift's and probaly never will. Why ? not because I think it is a clone or what ever other whine people have but, because it does not apeal to me. Unlike some people if I don't find a game appealing or interesting I don't play it. I do not go whining in there forums about how it does not have this or that or how they need to change this or that. Don't like it dont play it, the end.
I haven't seen that much whining in this topic AT ALL! Lot of people give constructive feedback after their experience with Rift!
So did I. I played RIFT and while a polished game and fun for a while, I found it very linear, lacking in many ways and end up being boring.
Not going into details now, as I already did before.
Other than WOW and EQ1 having classes and being a mmo,they are miles apart.
EQ1 was skilled based in many areas.
EQ1 didn't have quest markers. If someone who never played EQ1 went to play it today they would have serious difficulty actually playing the game,they would be totally lost unless they asked for help.
EQ1 was blizzards inspiration but WOW is no where near a clone of EQ1, infact their has not been a clone of EQ1 ever.
i wouldn't call Rift a WoW Clone... i'd say it looks like warhammer online but plays like World of Warcraft. so... i guess i'm half right
Why do you buy a game? I buy it to play it. Don't get me wrong, story is nice and all, but once I've been through the story arcs once, or MAYBE twice, I'm not going to be very interested in playing it again.
So if Game A plays like Game B in most significant aspects (as I outlined in my previous post) I'm going to call it a clone.
If it wags at one end and barks at the other you can call it a moose if you like. Personally I'm going to call it a dog.
sadly there will always be people that just have to bring the negaativity. Why? dunno, bad parents? bad life experince? who knows.
This is all the "wow clone" whiners do, my theory is that they enjoy being negative and I liken 99% of them to trolls that go in just to stir things up because they like the drama that ensues.
Notice most people that want to cry wow clone are mostly wow fanboys and they rarely make a valid point. The rest of them are people who just go around insulting things because they have nothing better to do.It is more like sniping remarks meant to get people worked up and sadly it seems to work as most people get all stired up about it.
Where I grew up we were taught to ignore the whiners because they were not worth your time, no matter how logical and valid of a point you make they will just find something else to whine about and it is a worthless pursuit to try to explain to anything to them or even to ask them to make a valid point.
Ignore them is the best advice, like the kid in grade school that did not hurt anyone but, always tried to start crap, this is the next version. not worth anyones time.
congratulations on the first whine post, and first post of the thread to not make a valid point.
You wonder why people point out Rifts lack of depth and lack of soul? 1.) Because depth and soul are two things it did not clone from WoW so its a direct response to the article and 2.) So Trion and other developers dont repeat this grievous mistake that IMO has stipped Rift from having lasting appeal toMOST people.
Ive already stated i think Rift will have a long life. It just wont be a major player and wont maintain over 200k subs a year from now.
When I first started my trail on Rift I was very happy to have a decent Warlock. So happy in fact that I assumed that I would be buying the program as soon as I finished the trail. Things didn't really turn out that way. First I wasn't able to start in a PVP environment and since that is my focus I couldn't come to a reasonable conclusion as the whether the game was worth my while or not in this difficult economy. I found the quests a little too easy too early and I wasn't even killed until level 12 (and only then when I tried to take on a Rift by myself) and as a noob to Rift I felt that I should have been killed a bit earlier. The min computer requirements I thought were a little high. My set up works fine with WoW but in Rift the inages were less than I was used to. Everything seemed a bit dark and dreary actually. Everytime a Rift opened up the lag was insane and that was extremely annoying. I had to pass on Rift for now but I haven't totally dismissed trying them some time in the future if they hand out another trial.
It almost reads as if Phil is embaresed to play Rift and feels this type of article in a way justiifies his enjoyment of the game. A game is what it is FPS games are all variations on a basic theme, its how well they do that and whether they inovate anywhere in the product. To me Rift doesn't inovate as a game, its really a semi next generation mmo in that it falls inbetween the experience GW2 and SW:TOR deliver and what WoW gives to us., the leading last generation mmo. In the end that is the big problem with Rift it doesn't feel really special so like Aion it porbably generates a transient following that goes elsewhere for action all to soon. Going back to WoW, which I know is a favourite game for this site, you just wonder where it will be when Diablo 3 launces, I think that if Diablo 3 launches in a huge way the suits that run Blizzard will put their army of developers onto extra content for it...it could be the next major cash cow before Titan project comes.
A couple of thing that I think are worth mentioning.
I am in no way embarrassed to play Rift. I played enough of it to write my article and since then I have continued to log in and play. I play a lot of games that some people can - and do - look down upon, but I have never needed any justification other than the fact that I enjoy them.
As to where each game fits into the generation timeline, we really only have enough information to comment on last and current gen mmos. Most games promise something groundbreaking, but deliver only a variation on what we have already. So it's safer to adopt a "wait and see" policy before claiming unreleased games as a next gen experience.
With that in mind, WoW is the leader of the current generation not the last one. Leader of the last one would mean that a current gen mmo has become the leader in its place. This is something that may not happen for some time. I've mentioned in the past that WoW's success is quite likely a one off and unlikely to be repeated even by Blizzard. Just my opinion though, and I am not immune making predictions that make me look stupid after the fact.
I may be missing the point but in writing an article on the term WoW clone so only talk about update schedules? What about mechanics, stats,classes,etc - I think that's the core of the term not how often new content is added
i doubt they intended to release content this fast at all, its probably due to the fact that its easy mode gaming and now they are scrambling to keep up.
as to wow clone? yes they took all the worst parts of wow (small scale raids, split faction community segregation, horrible pvp, x marks the spot questing with gear handed out at every turn, no character progression past level 50) and put it all in a shiny new package and sold it for a premium.
What we're seeing now in the world of MMORPG is very healthy, and a microcosm of what has already taken place in the video game industry at large. A few games hold everyone's interest... until a few new games come out. Tweaks, improvements, rehashes, complete originals, what's wrong with having the full spectrum of MMORPG?
I don't care why you choose X over Y any more than I cared why you chose to play Super Mario. Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone's got one. Pick the game you like and go play.
The problem with Rift is that there is absolutely no challenge whatsoever. It is one of those games that you press 1,2,3 to max level...with your eyes closed.
I soloed to 50 in less than a month and NEVER DIED. The game is to easy. Aside from that the content is nothing but different colored rifts. This game is for mmo newbies.
If you want a real mmo experience play Vanguard.
I played vanguard for a month and quit, it is no better than any other mmo on the market currently.
As for rift it was well done but needs alot more to keep people playing.
People who think every MMO is a "WoW Clone" must have a very blinkered view of MMO history.
WoW was released after Everquest 2 and Star Wars:Galaxies and so Rift can't be a "WoW Clone" as Blizzards game copied everything that came before it.
I generally get tired of WoW players harping on about games being "WoW Clones" as if WoW created the MMO genre.
Well it didn't so live and learn.
Most people who call games "WoW Clones" (me included) only call it that because WoW is so big. Yes, most of us played WoW, simply because it was so polished that it was so far ahead of other "WoW Clones", and the only alternatives were very old or very poorly done or very different that we didn't want that particular game (such as Eve).
Some small percentage of us have also been around long enough to remember that WoW was originally called an "EQ Clone". You're right in that part of it.
In general, it's just a term. Don't get hung up on specifics.
It's true that Rift is certainly following in WoW's footsteps, that it's creating further refinement of what was done by a game before it. The fact of the matter is, however, that refinement and direct replication are very different things, and much more of Rift is a mirror to its unrelated ancestor than it is an improvement. That isn't to say it's without merit, it's by far the most proficient WoW clone I've played, but the manner in which it is innovating, much like WoW had, is almost insignificant to the player (though technologically speaking that's probably not the case). I can remember people referring to WoW as an EQ clone.
Also, as I've mentioned multiple times in multiple threads, the term WoW clone is simply common termonology now. It's not meant to be negative, and it may have absolutely nothing to do with an individual being a fan of World of Warcraft, but it instead acts as a sufficient point of reference, as the experience it provides is fairly base amongst the industry now. So when you read the term "WoW clone", realize that in many cases someone is trying to relate features or concepts to something they assume you'll understand.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Before people defend the OP, remember you this: Even Trion advertised "You aren't in Azeroth Anymore!" as one of their most infamous slogans. After a ton of trash talk about the instanced BGs and the treadmill grinds for gear - that slogan conveniently - disappeared.
Now they advertise 'join our Horde'
*Warning, this is a bit textual.
As one of a plethora of old-school gamers, I am just tired of seeing that mmorpgs are only being developed for a specific audience. As an adult who went as far as graduate school (like many of us), I believe it is our turn to enjoy an mmorpg as well. So let me be the first to say here:
Build it and they will come.
First, as an aside, you know you gotta hand it to the corporations take on the mmorpg genre. Trion, as a prime example, is savvy and intelligent in that they created a competitive (arguably) option for the WoW crowd. Now for EA, this concept failed, and instead of rebuilding and marketing one of the only unique mmorpgs on the market (Dark Age of Camelot), they put her into maintenance mode and swept her under a rug for Warhammer, and they ended up RvR'ing themselves - In the face. Point is here, corporations do not always succeed solely because they have $$ flow. Mythic started from scratch with a tiny developer base and created something that has yet to be copied.
But, coportate mistakes aside, in regards to Trion, which is more orignal post appropriate, think of Trion vs Blizzard Entertainment as Hyundai to Honda, or Burger King to McDonalds. I applaud them for marketing their product fairly well and I think they did a good job within the confines of their vision.
What I wish, is that someone would be able to give us a fairly pretty engine and combine the old school mmorpg models together. Take the in depth questing of Ultima and EQ, put in a massive three realm world that Dark Age of Camelot so brilliantly brought us, let us have the option to grind mobs (like in Asheron's Call or DAoC) for xp, rewarding players with more xp if they max out their group size....ensure that classes are different in each faction, ensure that classes utilize different armor and techniques in each faction (reminding us as to why the hit t.v. series "Deadliest Warrior," is so popular and why we practiclaly drooled in excitement when the Ultimate Fighting Championship was about Karate vs Jiujitsu vs Kung Fu vs Thai Boxing vs Kenpo, etc) and in short, taking the blandness of pvp away and possibly disposing once and for all the growing blandness of the recent industry.
And in Regards to that ever so touchy PvP subject:
Finally, I expect that developers could take the above combination as their starting ground, and then reconsider the reasoning behind advancing pvp concepts. The below bit of text should help explain why pvp can and should be made to be seen as something meaningful and important:
In the real world we:
In the past century we have watched our troops fight through massive world wars - we fought the fascist nazis and simultaneously helped stop Japan from crushing Manchuria, and then to ensure that Stalin would not just walk into Japan and further blockade the Pacific, we instituded the Marshall Plan, and helped the Japanese people overthrow the recent past and create a powerful economy.
We stood strong even when our own government limited our capacity and range, when we defied 300,000 Chinese troops and x amount of N Koreans at the 38th parallel.
We tried to slow the tide of Communism from N Vietnam into S Vietnam - and failed. We dealt with dictatorships in the Caribbean and in the Middle-East, even ended up revitalizing our Vietnam era political views (thanks to the sad events of 9/11) and fought terrorism in other parts of the world....and entered the era of Modern Warfare.
All of these events have brought awe and meaning to conflict.
In the fantasy world we have read/seen:
We have sat in awe in our theater seats as Sauron's forces engaged the remnants of Gondor's defenses at the Battle of Helm's Deep - through siege warfare, nonetheless (something that escaped Turbine Entertainment LOTRO from the time they were a subscription model to the point of free to play so that they could cash shop profits).
We sat proud as 300 Spartans on the silver screen (and if you read the book/graphic novel) defended their freedom and subsequently saved Democracy in the Greek world so that we might better understand its principles in revolutionary France, and eventually in the 13 Colonies.
We read book series by brilliant authors, such as, "The Song of Ice and FIre" series by George R.R. Martin. We watched the televised cable version and are struck by the complexity and individual uniqueness of the cultures displayed in "A Game of Thrones."
Martin gave us true human emotion (unintentionally reminding us just how processed mmorpgs are) by displaying brutal betrayals, armies rising to crush armies, dark whisperings from an millenium ago rearing its head once more north of the Wall - the Iron Throne being vied for, and a young princess, married against her will into a culture of horse lords, rising to rule the world as the blood of the dragon flows through her veins...little wonder his fans span around city blocks in the hope of a signature.
We gazed in wonder at the CGI extravaganza that was Avatar. We saw they fought for their planet, their people, their uniquely different culture (granted this was a metaphor taken right out of Pocahantus...but it was still quite grande)...
We wonderd as the Scotts under William Wallace fought the tyranny of English rule, because the concept of freedom, and the right to live on one's land as they willed was more important than wealth - and life itself.
All of this we have read and seen and then we come to the mmorpg industry, where fantasy and imagination are to be tempered by creativity and what do we get?
Capture the flag in an instanced "battle-ground" where races and classes and gear are cosmetic at best, and at worst, are just mirrors of one another.
It's time to be weaned off the mammary of the modern less intellectually adept mothership of mmorpgs. It's time to go back to a time when creatitivity was in competition..BEFORE cash shops and processed environments with unsupported RP servers, and the sense of being lost at the mall whenever you log in .
Today =
MASSIVELY-MULTIPLAYER is all that matters and rpg has been long left behind, along with variation, housing, and something interesting to fight for that will affect all of your culture and even give that level 14 guy something to cheer about, not just the elite premade.
Will someone with the financial support see this as truth? I am hopeful that someday they will. Perhaps the folks at Morrowind and Medieval Total War will get their departments together and MAKE IT SO.
Comments
Not to mention that both Vanilla WoW and Everquest 2 had superior amount of content compared to RIFT. Not to mention different starter zones to level up in and so had immediately longetivity ingame due to making leveling up ALT's worthwile and fun!
While RIFT is a polished decent game, it just suffers due to the lack of content and having only one leveling path, making ALTing a borefest, as you end up doing the exact same thing.
Rift seems like it was so concerned with its polish it forgot to add depth to its world. Not only is it faster and smaller, it just feels like its rushing you to max level.
WoW and EQ2 both have wonderful games on their way up. People in both games roll alts to see what they missed, or to experience again some of the highlights. The only real highlights in Rift are the rifts and dungeons, both of which you do at level 50 anyway.
No, the rest of your leveling is spent being sent to an area full of ridiculously dense mobs for two types of drops. Then you wade back through the pack of dense mobs unrelated to your quest to get back to quest giver. Then quest giver sends you back for two new types of items...from the same mobs...sooo its back through the dense mobs to get to the dense mobs. Only to be sent there a third time. I remember going through gloamwood and thinking you couldnt pay me to redo these quests again at that keep.
The quest lines are (mostly) boring and tedious, the zones are boring. Not only is there a lack of content, but whats there is (mostly) uninspiring. And this is most likely why Rift is faltering a bit now. Its subs are in decline despite it being a new game with regular updates in a stagnant marketplace.
sadly there will always be people that just have to bring the negaativity. Why? dunno, bad parents? bad life experince? who knows.
This is all the "wow clone" whiners do, my theory is that they enjoy being negative and I liken 99% of them to trolls that go in just to stir things up because they like the drama that ensues.
Notice most people that want to cry wow clone are mostly wow fanboys and they rarely make a valid point. The rest of them are people who just go around insulting things because they have nothing better to do.It is more like sniping remarks meant to get people worked up and sadly it seems to work as most people get all stired up about it.
Where I grew up we were taught to ignore the whiners because they were not worth your time, no matter how logical and valid of a point you make they will just find something else to whine about and it is a worthless pursuit to try to explain to anything to them or even to ask them to make a valid point.
Ignore them is the best advice, like the kid in grade school that did not hurt anyone but, always tried to start crap, this is the next version. not worth anyones time.
Calling every critic a WoW fanboi, makes you look like a Rift fanboi and rather short sighted and hypocritical!
Just saying.
Rift is proof that the mmorpg genre as a whole is tired of the same old themepark play we've had for years now.
It's an extremely well done game and other than leveling content (which most people find trivial) its vastly superior to WoW in every way.
Yet they arent blazing the way for mmos like WoW did. Sure the game is crazy popular but if this game released at the same time as WOW in 2004 it would have put Blizzard out of business...
The fact that it hasent grown to be a phenomenon gives me hope for the future of our genre.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
The lore is a bit on the dull side too, if they had hired decent writers to come up with a decent lore the leveling wouldn't be quite so dull.
few reasons why RIFT kicks ass.
- Dynamic zone and world events, No other mmo has this. In fact is is uber boring running around in a quest zone in any other mmo now, Nothing at all is happening. Except maby for a bit of pvp here and there its dull. You do your boring quests and hand in. Rinse and repeat. In rift the PVE raids you. Every 2 hours or so the entrire map changes and you hav to team up with other ppl to defend positions , take out bosses, destroy stuctures, many other variations .... Its fun and ties in to the story and breaks the manotony of regular grinding. The world event bosses are awesum to take down !! Its like raiding on the world map with hundreds of players. I cannot see that i will go back to any other existing mmo or even SWTOR, because lifeless zones will just be a bore.
- The ascended soul class system is uber. I have for the 100th time made completely different type of char. If you are bored there is no need to reroll with new class. U just change your souls. You hav 5 specs so no need to destroy the old ones either. And having 9 souls to choose from right from the start, makes wow's class classic types feel like a snooze. You can craft a character with specific things in mind. Example i made a self healing pvp warrior with complimentary abilities that boost each-other across souls, i made a uber tank that can stop a train, i made a high-dps-ing spec that can bring down an uber cleric and on and on. There is just so much that you could never do b4. Playing a game without this will be yawn..... zzzz. Swtor's classes now seem so boring. Hope the big universe makes up for it.
- in only 3 months rift already has 3 raids, 4 warfronts , many normal and expert instances that are completely different from one-another and a horde of different types of Raid and expert raid rifts that both hard and fun (especially if there is a enemy guild stalking you while trying to do one ). LOL @ rifts being only different looking. Wanna see you take on an expert raid death rift with your ( i have played to level cap in 2 days ) gear. There are also many raid zone quests and the new pvp-quests and content.
- the world and lore even without the dynamic events is very intersting and alive. There are a multitude of puzzles and hidden treasures all over. There are epic story quests, that absolutly rock. There are baddies that seem and feel realm with sum personality. The dragon lords are uber !! Azeroth is dead compared to this. each zone has a unique feeling and special vibe about it.
areas where rift needs work :
- more world pvp content : there has to be sum castle or sumthing to defend , sum reason to engage in pvp other than presige and favor.
- more lvl 50 epic story quests. (giving ger and stuff we actually need for raiding or R6 pvp )
- deeper crafting and gear enchantment (improvement options)
- more warfronts.
- world events that hav a deeper impact upon the world.
- arena
i wouldn't call Rift a WoW Clone... i'd say it looks like warhammer online but plays like World of Warcraft. so... i guess i'm half right
Only fault with that logic is I never played rift's and probaly never will. Why ? not because I think it is a clone or what ever other whine people have but, because it does not apeal to me. Unlike some people if I don't find a game appealing or interesting I don't play it. I do not go whining in there forums about how it does not have this or that or how they need to change this or that. Don't like it dont play it, the end.
I haven't seen that much whining in this topic AT ALL! Lot of people give constructive feedback after their experience with Rift!
So did I. I played RIFT and while a polished game and fun for a while, I found it very linear, lacking in many ways and end up being boring.
Not going into details now, as I already did before.
You obviously never played EQ1 then.
Other than WOW and EQ1 having classes and being a mmo,they are miles apart.
EQ1 was skilled based in many areas.
EQ1 didn't have quest markers. If someone who never played EQ1 went to play it today they would have serious difficulty actually playing the game,they would be totally lost unless they asked for help.
EQ1 was blizzards inspiration but WOW is no where near a clone of EQ1, infact their has not been a clone of EQ1 ever.
http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Jesus/Jesus.htm
Why do you buy a game? I buy it to play it. Don't get me wrong, story is nice and all, but once I've been through the story arcs once, or MAYBE twice, I'm not going to be very interested in playing it again.
So if Game A plays like Game B in most significant aspects (as I outlined in my previous post) I'm going to call it a clone.
If it wags at one end and barks at the other you can call it a moose if you like. Personally I'm going to call it a dog.
congratulations on the first whine post, and first post of the thread to not make a valid point.
You wonder why people point out Rifts lack of depth and lack of soul? 1.) Because depth and soul are two things it did not clone from WoW so its a direct response to the article and 2.) So Trion and other developers dont repeat this grievous mistake that IMO has stipped Rift from having lasting appeal toMOST people.
Ive already stated i think Rift will have a long life. It just wont be a major player and wont maintain over 200k subs a year from now.
When I first started my trail on Rift I was very happy to have a decent Warlock. So happy in fact that I assumed that I would be buying the program as soon as I finished the trail. Things didn't really turn out that way. First I wasn't able to start in a PVP environment and since that is my focus I couldn't come to a reasonable conclusion as the whether the game was worth my while or not in this difficult economy. I found the quests a little too easy too early and I wasn't even killed until level 12 (and only then when I tried to take on a Rift by myself) and as a noob to Rift I felt that I should have been killed a bit earlier. The min computer requirements I thought were a little high. My set up works fine with WoW but in Rift the inages were less than I was used to. Everything seemed a bit dark and dreary actually. Everytime a Rift opened up the lag was insane and that was extremely annoying. I had to pass on Rift for now but I haven't totally dismissed trying them some time in the future if they hand out another trial.
A couple of thing that I think are worth mentioning.
I am in no way embarrassed to play Rift. I played enough of it to write my article and since then I have continued to log in and play. I play a lot of games that some people can - and do - look down upon, but I have never needed any justification other than the fact that I enjoy them.
As to where each game fits into the generation timeline, we really only have enough information to comment on last and current gen mmos. Most games promise something groundbreaking, but deliver only a variation on what we have already. So it's safer to adopt a "wait and see" policy before claiming unreleased games as a next gen experience.
With that in mind, WoW is the leader of the current generation not the last one. Leader of the last one would mean that a current gen mmo has become the leader in its place. This is something that may not happen for some time. I've mentioned in the past that WoW's success is quite likely a one off and unlikely to be repeated even by Blizzard. Just my opinion though, and I am not immune making predictions that make me look stupid after the fact.
What about mechanics, stats,classes,etc - I think that's the core of the term not how often new content is added
To err is human....to play is divine
i doubt they intended to release content this fast at all, its probably due to the fact that its easy mode gaming and now they are scrambling to keep up.
as to wow clone? yes they took all the worst parts of wow (small scale raids, split faction community segregation, horrible pvp, x marks the spot questing with gear handed out at every turn, no character progression past level 50) and put it all in a shiny new package and sold it for a premium.
A game can only dominate for so long.
What we're seeing now in the world of MMORPG is very healthy, and a microcosm of what has already taken place in the video game industry at large. A few games hold everyone's interest... until a few new games come out. Tweaks, improvements, rehashes, complete originals, what's wrong with having the full spectrum of MMORPG?
I don't care why you choose X over Y any more than I cared why you chose to play Super Mario. Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone's got one. Pick the game you like and go play.
I played vanguard for a month and quit, it is no better than any other mmo on the market currently.
As for rift it was well done but needs alot more to keep people playing.
People who think every MMO is a "WoW Clone" must have a very blinkered view of MMO history.
WoW was released after Everquest 2 and Star Wars:Galaxies and so Rift can't be a "WoW Clone" as Blizzards game copied everything that came before it.
I generally get tired of WoW players harping on about games being "WoW Clones" as if WoW created the MMO genre.
Well it didn't so live and learn.
Most people who call games "WoW Clones" (me included) only call it that because WoW is so big. Yes, most of us played WoW, simply because it was so polished that it was so far ahead of other "WoW Clones", and the only alternatives were very old or very poorly done or very different that we didn't want that particular game (such as Eve).
Some small percentage of us have also been around long enough to remember that WoW was originally called an "EQ Clone". You're right in that part of it.
In general, it's just a term. Don't get hung up on specifics.
Once upon a time....
It's true that Rift is certainly following in WoW's footsteps, that it's creating further refinement of what was done by a game before it. The fact of the matter is, however, that refinement and direct replication are very different things, and much more of Rift is a mirror to its unrelated ancestor than it is an improvement. That isn't to say it's without merit, it's by far the most proficient WoW clone I've played, but the manner in which it is innovating, much like WoW had, is almost insignificant to the player (though technologically speaking that's probably not the case). I can remember people referring to WoW as an EQ clone.
Also, as I've mentioned multiple times in multiple threads, the term WoW clone is simply common termonology now. It's not meant to be negative, and it may have absolutely nothing to do with an individual being a fan of World of Warcraft, but it instead acts as a sufficient point of reference, as the experience it provides is fairly base amongst the industry now. So when you read the term "WoW clone", realize that in many cases someone is trying to relate features or concepts to something they assume you'll understand.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
*Warning, this is a bit textual.
As one of a plethora of old-school gamers, I am just tired of seeing that mmorpgs are only being developed for a specific audience. As an adult who went as far as graduate school (like many of us), I believe it is our turn to enjoy an mmorpg as well. So let me be the first to say here:
Build it and they will come.
First, as an aside, you know you gotta hand it to the corporations take on the mmorpg genre. Trion, as a prime example, is savvy and intelligent in that they created a competitive (arguably) option for the WoW crowd. Now for EA, this concept failed, and instead of rebuilding and marketing one of the only unique mmorpgs on the market (Dark Age of Camelot), they put her into maintenance mode and swept her under a rug for Warhammer, and they ended up RvR'ing themselves - In the face. Point is here, corporations do not always succeed solely because they have $$ flow. Mythic started from scratch with a tiny developer base and created something that has yet to be copied.
But, coportate mistakes aside, in regards to Trion, which is more orignal post appropriate, think of Trion vs Blizzard Entertainment as Hyundai to Honda, or Burger King to McDonalds. I applaud them for marketing their product fairly well and I think they did a good job within the confines of their vision.
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But Rift is not what many of us are looking for.
What I wish, is that someone would be able to give us a fairly pretty engine and combine the old school mmorpg models together. Take the in depth questing of Ultima and EQ, put in a massive three realm world that Dark Age of Camelot so brilliantly brought us, let us have the option to grind mobs (like in Asheron's Call or DAoC) for xp, rewarding players with more xp if they max out their group size....ensure that classes are different in each faction, ensure that classes utilize different armor and techniques in each faction (reminding us as to why the hit t.v. series "Deadliest Warrior," is so popular and why we practiclaly drooled in excitement when the Ultimate Fighting Championship was about Karate vs Jiujitsu vs Kung Fu vs Thai Boxing vs Kenpo, etc) and in short, taking the blandness of pvp away and possibly disposing once and for all the growing blandness of the recent industry.
And in Regards to that ever so touchy PvP subject:
Finally, I expect that developers could take the above combination as their starting ground, and then reconsider the reasoning behind advancing pvp concepts. The below bit of text should help explain why pvp can and should be made to be seen as something meaningful and important:
In the real world we:
In the past century we have watched our troops fight through massive world wars - we fought the fascist nazis and simultaneously helped stop Japan from crushing Manchuria, and then to ensure that Stalin would not just walk into Japan and further blockade the Pacific, we instituded the Marshall Plan, and helped the Japanese people overthrow the recent past and create a powerful economy.
We stood strong even when our own government limited our capacity and range, when we defied 300,000 Chinese troops and x amount of N Koreans at the 38th parallel.
We tried to slow the tide of Communism from N Vietnam into S Vietnam - and failed. We dealt with dictatorships in the Caribbean and in the Middle-East, even ended up revitalizing our Vietnam era political views (thanks to the sad events of 9/11) and fought terrorism in other parts of the world....and entered the era of Modern Warfare.
All of these events have brought awe and meaning to conflict.
In the fantasy world we have read/seen:
We have sat in awe in our theater seats as Sauron's forces engaged the remnants of Gondor's defenses at the Battle of Helm's Deep - through siege warfare, nonetheless (something that escaped Turbine Entertainment LOTRO from the time they were a subscription model to the point of free to play so that they could cash shop profits).
We sat proud as 300 Spartans on the silver screen (and if you read the book/graphic novel) defended their freedom and subsequently saved Democracy in the Greek world so that we might better understand its principles in revolutionary France, and eventually in the 13 Colonies.
We read book series by brilliant authors, such as, "The Song of Ice and FIre" series by George R.R. Martin. We watched the televised cable version and are struck by the complexity and individual uniqueness of the cultures displayed in "A Game of Thrones."
Martin gave us true human emotion (unintentionally reminding us just how processed mmorpgs are) by displaying brutal betrayals, armies rising to crush armies, dark whisperings from an millenium ago rearing its head once more north of the Wall - the Iron Throne being vied for, and a young princess, married against her will into a culture of horse lords, rising to rule the world as the blood of the dragon flows through her veins...little wonder his fans span around city blocks in the hope of a signature.
We gazed in wonder at the CGI extravaganza that was Avatar. We saw they fought for their planet, their people, their uniquely different culture (granted this was a metaphor taken right out of Pocahantus...but it was still quite grande)...
We wonderd as the Scotts under William Wallace fought the tyranny of English rule, because the concept of freedom, and the right to live on one's land as they willed was more important than wealth - and life itself.
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All of this we have read and seen and then we come to the mmorpg industry, where fantasy and imagination are to be tempered by creativity and what do we get?
Capture the flag in an instanced "battle-ground" where races and classes and gear are cosmetic at best, and at worst, are just mirrors of one another.
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It's time to be weaned off the mammary of the modern less intellectually adept mothership of mmorpgs. It's time to go back to a time when creatitivity was in competition..BEFORE cash shops and processed environments with unsupported RP servers, and the sense of being lost at the mall whenever you log in .
Today =
MASSIVELY-MULTIPLAYER is all that matters and rpg has been long left behind, along with variation, housing, and something interesting to fight for that will affect all of your culture and even give that level 14 guy something to cheer about, not just the elite premade.
Will someone with the financial support see this as truth? I am hopeful that someday they will. Perhaps the folks at Morrowind and Medieval Total War will get their departments together and MAKE IT SO.
/My 2 cents.